RS6 Cold Air Intake Options

[Del Stator]

I want to start throwing around ideas on creating different options that we could use to get more air into the engine without trying to come up with one option. I would like to be able to look in one place when I am day dreaming about intakes instead of looking in multiple places.

As some people will have 450hp then there isn't much reason to look for radical ideas, maybe just something to increase the stock box flow.

As we move up in HP more radical options come into play.

With some CAI options including modifications to the hood then a relevant discussion of heat dissipation techniques through hood venting would have a point in this thread.

I spoke to Terry Griffin at Griffin Motorwerke in Berkeley. He has done some basic upgrades to his RS6. Revo stage 2...I don't care about Revo opinions... diverters, probably some upgraded air filters, high flow cats. He is willing to run the car on the dyno with and without the intake air tubing to the airbox.

As I am paying 100.00 for this run I would like to know if anyone has any input into the run itself. I figure it is a simple as run with and run without. Then I want him to run with the airbox open from the top. We will make sure there is no heat soak issue but I don't think so with such short amount of runs... I could be wrong. Is there anything that I am thinking wrong about here??

I might even ask him to put the FMU unit on. I don't know if he wants to do that though.

I am waiting on a response from EPL to see if they actually have some larger MAF kit.

I am not actually clear on how relevant this information will be for someone making bigger HP...550+.

[DHall1]

Is the dyno at his shop? Put good gas in it

Need vag data log in turbo mode. 3 31 115

Warm car to operating temps....park it at dyno for 1hr w/hood open....fan on it if poss....take out ducts.

Perform sneaky ecu reset......key on....gas pedal to floor 5sec........key off.........then release gas pedal. Leave sit 5min.

Strap it on and make 2 runs.

Let it cool w fans and put the ducts on..2 more runs.

[Del Stator]

He had it installed over the summer. It is a Mustang. I don't know what model but will find out.

15830

[Turbowned]

I'd be interested to see the data. All these intake options out there and no proof whether or not they improve airflow over the seemingly efficient factory unit. I'm not one of those people who believes that "a German engineer made it, therefore it cannot possibly be improved upon by the aftermarket", but without some numbers to back it up we're basically just guessing.

We have the following aftermarket options available:

-Fluid Motor Union
-Apikol
-Dahlback Racing
-Gruppe M ($4,700 for an intake? Get f**ked!)
-(others?)

Have any of them been dyno-tested?

[Del Stator]

I am going to ask Terry if he would be willing to use his car as a test mule. He seems to be getting quite a few RS6s passing through. It can only increase his business. If people wanted to send the units to him maybe he could put them on his car. He might tell me no way but I will ask.

Here is his FB page for people who don't know who I am talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/Griffin.Motorwerke

Just as an aside Terry has been a F1 photographer for about 15 years and now he is a fully credentialed F1 photograper..... He definitely is an interesting guy...and is as un PC as you get living smack in the middle of PC Berkeley. I love talking to T. He is who hooked me up with Lee Schwartz of Flow Tech in North Carolina.

PC = Politically Correct

[DHall1]

I have some ideas after looking over the champion setups. Need to go out in the garage

Take out the under hood cowl seal and cover
Take out the 2x2 rubber plug on the cowl divider
Take out the black accordion connectors to the stock air cleaner.

Leave the silver ducts

Post test butt dyno says yes. Logs look good but it pulls smooth thru 2nd and 3rd gears from butt dyno impressions

[CBeau]

Thread jack = I know Terry. I lived in bay area 7 years in late 90s / early 2000s. I bought / ordered a pair of racing Recaros from him for one of my 951s/944 Turbos. That was prob. 2001/2. I remember when I went to go pick them up he had one of those 60s/70s super multi window VW busses in his shop. A super mint one. Then years later I saw him I think at least twice manning a Recaro display at SEMA. And maybe they had Hella in that same display seems like I might remember?

It is so cool how so many people keep messing with these low production and now pretty damn old RS6s. Kind of makes me feel lame. I just drive mine lol. And its early VIN 85kish mi.s, all stock except RS4 wheels, just maintained and OEM shock system recall-replaced just before I got it couple years ago from Porsche Club Racing friend / orig. owner who just used it as daily.

Whenever I think about messing with it I just come on here and read around a little and invariably walk away thinking... ain't broke don't fix it lol

[lswing]

^^^Yea, but it's so slow in stock form:) Can't resist messing with any car...

[4everRS]

Did you forget your meds again?!?
I have some ideas after looking over the champion setups. Need to go out in the garage

Take out the under hood cowl seal and cover
Take out the 2x2 rubber plug on the cowl divider
Take out the black accordion connectors to the stock air cleaner.

Leave the silver ducts

Post test butt dyno says yes. Logs look good but it pulls smooth thru 2nd and 3rd gears from butt dyno impressions

[DHall1]

Yep, I ran out last week.

Cowl seal removal allows heat to escape out from under the hood. heat was really escaping from under the rear of the cowl

Leaving the silver ducts allows cool air to be directed to the open air cleaner housings. But if more volume is needed the open housing has no restriction.

[Bigglezworth]

I'm not an engineer, but I did okay with physics back in the day. I do believe that there is no restriction in air flow for any portion of the air cleaner assembly. Remember that air can be compressed and does in fact compress as it passes through the runners that lead from the grille to the airbox. Just like a carburator has air venturi's, so do the runners for the airbox. High pressure/low velocity as it passes through the grille area, then low pressure/high velocity as it passes through the silver ducting, and then finally, back to high pressure/lowe velocity as it enters the air box. Misconception that the grey ducts are restricting air. Same volume of air still getting from point A to point B. I have no doubt that the sum of both airbox ducts provides ample CFM to feed a 4.2L engine being pressurized by more than 20psi.

15836

[RS8]

If a restriction in the air flow would not be a problem, why does the cover of the airbox sucked down?
For the hole inside the air masse meters are more narrow than the 4 " holes you have into the airbox so something obstructs airflow into the air box.
(And sure it could be the airfilters that is the problem and not the air intake tubes. But I think it's the tubes)


Moreover, in many racing cars with turbo so put them a restrictor before the turbocharger to reduce down the horsepower and they have greater area both before and after the restrictor,
So obviously a restrictor will reduce the airflow and hp on a turbo engine.


A turbo sucks lots of air so any restriction in the flow must be removed to avoid losing hp.



Del Stator:
If you do a test and see that the air box cover no longer sucked down when you remove the silver intake air tubing, then try to reduce the size of the holes and see how smal you can go before it is sucked down and the HP goes down. Because then we can calculate if it will work for 1000hp with two fully open 4" holes or not.

But If it still sucks down even without the air tubings then try to remove the air filters and see what happens.

You also need hose that is 4 inches internally to replace the intake air tubing's when doing the test so it will not suck hot air from the engine to get the correct hp figures.

[Zorb]

...
Del Stator:
If you do a test and see that the air box cover no longer sucked down when you remove the silver intake air tubing, then try also to close one hole completely so you only have one open 4 inch hole into the airbox and see if it is drawn together now and with only 500 hp, for then there the risk that it makes it also at 1000 hp but with both 4" holes open.

...


Do not do this. IIRC, I seem to recall my airbox being divided inside, with each side of the airbox feeding one turbo. If you block one side entirely, you will starve one turbo entirely. This could be bad.

[RS8]

Do not do this. IIRC, I seem to recall my airbox being divided inside, with each side of the airbox feeding one turbo. If you block one side entirely, you will starve one turbo entirely. This could be bad.

Are you sure it is divided inside ?
Is it the case then it will obviously not work, but I do not remember what it looks like inside the airbox.

EDIT
Yes I found a picture now an it is divided :(

So I have changed my text above now to another test you could try.

[Del Stator]

Cool I like the different ideas for testing..

I wanted to give a clear picture of how these runs will go as lot of fiddling around might not be happening. When in California I live 6 hours north of Berkeley/Bay Area. So I won't be there when Terry does some dyno runs. I am leaving on Tuesday for Arkansas. I am going to try to buy some property and sell some of mine. Hopefully be moved back by early spring!

So I am getting Terry to do this stuff for me with his personal car. So lets get some very specific set of runs that don't require extra effort on his part. Let's be efficient with his time and my money...

Please correct me if I am wrong thinking. The car can be run over a longer period of time. As in do a run and sit for a while so heat soak is not an issue. I was thinking of running the car with the hood open so engine heat won't be much of an issue. There will be a fan blowing across the engine bay. That might not simulate driving issues but it can keep a baseline with engine heat for testing purpose.

Here are my proposed runs:

1. Baseline with it all hooked up.
2. Pull the silver tubes.
3. Pull the airbox cover . It seems to me to be as open as possible past the MAFs. Problem or not?? Hood open so not much heat.

I don't see any other reasons to make other runs at this moment. I can try with other configurations maybe at some other time.

The picture below is with a LS motor but it is the only picture I can find with the airbox open.

15837

If someone will post a picture with the airbox open on our engine please do as it would be better for obvious reasons. I will replace this one.

[RS8]

Okay, but make sure they log each test with ME7logger
and with rpm, Boost, EGT, Ignition, Water temp, Intake temp, knock control for all cylinders and everything else that is good to know, so we can see if there are any differences between each test.

And that he starts each run from exact same rpm.

[Del Stator]

ME7logger??

[DHall1]

I doubt he has ME logger. Vagcom will have to do.

I would do the test as noted below and just remove the connectors between the silver ducts and housings.

Good luck


Is the dyno at his shop? Put good gas in it

Need vag data log in turbo mode. 3 31 115

Warm car to operating temps....park it at dyno for 1hr w/hood open....fan on it if poss....take out ducts.

Perform sneaky ecu reset......key on....gas pedal to floor 5sec........key off.........then release gas pedal. Leave sit 5min.

Strap it on and make 2 runs.

Let it cool w fans and put the ducts on..2 more runs.

[RS8]

ME7logger??

With me7logger you can logg everything on the engine at the same time, with vag-com you can only log 3 groups.
Here you can read about it:
http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/25190-****-Guide-on-How-to-Take-and-Graph-Logs-****?highlight=me7logger


But it took awhile for me to get it up and running and to understand how it works.
But now I use ME7logger every time i want to log a run.

Here you can see some logs from me:

[RS8]

Is the dyno at his shop? Put good gas in it

Need vag data log in turbo mode. 3 31 115



What values will be logged during these 3 groups in vag-com ?

[DHall1]

Need more test subjects.

Takes 5 minutes

[QQUOTE=DHall1;270114]I have some ideas after looking over the champion setups. Need to go out in the garage

Take out the under hood cowl seal and cover
Take out the 2x2 rubber plug on the cowl divider
Take out the black accordion connectors to the stock air cleaner.

Leave the silver ducts

Post test butt dyno says yes. Logs look good but it pulls smooth thru 2nd and 3rd gears from butt dyno impressions[/QUOTE]

[Del Stator]

Back in Arkansas I and I bought a house!

Next week I will get with Terry and get stuff moving.

I would like to hear more butt dyno results as well..

[makaveli42]

Just my two cents... I have the Apikol intake, it's cheaply made, didn't give me any butt Dyno results and on the lowest temp track day I ran my slowest 1/4 mile times in the past year. Does make cool sound when flooring it tho.

[BradP]

I like the idea of cowl induction. Ideally, a cowl hood. However, a simple shoebox with a rectangular filter sitting on the MAF tubes ducted back into the cowl area through that sheet metal would work as well. Probably noisy for some, but wouldn't cook all the air the way that big stock box does. I'd try it myself if I could think of a good way to mount the sensors:)


Apikol, doesn't that thing suck all the hot air from under the hood?


Little off topic....I have had heat soak causing loss of power and difficulty down-shifting at the track (tail end of 25 minute sessions on a hot day). I plan to simply try a simple intercooler sprayer.

[SensoRS6]

I have some ideas after looking over the champion setups. Need to go out in the garage

Take out the under hood cowl seal and cover
Take out the 2x2 rubber plug on the cowl divider
Take out the black accordion connectors to the stock air cleaner.

Leave the silver ducts

Post test butt dyno says yes. Logs look good but it pulls smooth thru 2nd and 3rd gears from butt dyno impressions


Is this how you run normally? Does this help with power, wouldn't you be sucking more engine heat in without the black accordion connectors?

[DHall1]

The ducts are still there to direct some air to the box...but yes some air is pulled from under hood. Thus the reason to open up the cowl area.

This is the test. It feels good so far and only run this in cool weather. I have a plan for hot weather


Is this how you run normally? Does this help with power, wouldn't you be sucking more engine heat in without the black accordion connectors?

[SensoRS6]

The ducts are still there to direct some air to the box...but yes some air is pulled from under hood. Thus the reason to open up the cowl area.

This is the test. It feels good so far and only run this in cool weather. I have a plan for hot weather

I will try it next week when they finish installing my new transmission.

[Del Stator]

Is the dyno at his shop? Put good gas in it

Need vag data log in turbo mode. 3 31 115

Warm car to operating temps....park it at dyno for 1hr w/hood open....fan on it if poss....take out ducts.

Perform sneaky ecu reset......key on....gas pedal to floor 5sec........key off.........then release gas pedal. Leave sit 5min.

Strap it on and make 2 runs.

Let it cool w fans and put the ducts on..2 more runs.

Terry was not familiar with what you are asking for as for the VAG settings... Could you clarify?

[DHall1]

Data log blocks 3, 31, 115

Before you select the log blocks....the (turbo) button MUST be selected. Otherwise the data capture rate is much slower.

[ttboost]

Silly rabbits....air in...air out....The turbo is your restriction, not your intake/air box...If there was an appreciable improvement from an intake, someone would have already made their millions. This has been done a lot, and so far, no one has provided any REAL data that ANY other intake than stock is an improvement. This is just my observation, I really hope you guys find something more than a few HP.

[Del Stator]

I have bigger turbos and will have even bigger turbos so I am looking for the next restriction in the chain...

[Bigglezworth]

You guys all kill me. This is NOT a NA ride. Increasing air flow to the turbos is a fruitless effort as the amount of air that passes through the turbine is restricted by diameter of the inlet on the turbine housing. It's THAT simple. That diameter is smaller than the diameter of the pipes feeding the turbo. Making those pipes any larger simply isn't going to help. If you are able to stuff in a larger turbo with a larger diameter turbine, then yes you can benefit from a slightly larger air feed, but you will still always limited by the restriction point at the inlet of the turbo.

Tag - you're it...

[ttboost]

You guys all kill me. This is NOT a NA ride. Increasing air flow to the turbos is a fruitless effort as the amount of air that passes through the turbine is restricted by diameter of the inlet on the turbine housing. It's THAT simple. That diameter is smaller than the diameter of the pipes feeding the turbo. Making those pipes any larger simply isn't going to help. If you are able to stuff in a larger turbo with a larger diameter turbine, then yes you can benefit from a slightly larger air feed, but you will still always limited by the restriction point at the inlet of the turbo.

Tag - you're it...

Forget it Tim...:noshake:

[DHall1]

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s532/03RSTT/Mobile%20Uploads/277267361_zps2ec1c1a5.jpeg

[ttboost]

Apparently no one has seen the compressor wheel of an RS6 turbocharger...it's about the size of a quarter. Doesn't anyone wonder why no one publishes dyno or real world results of RS6 intake solutions? It's because they would never sell one. I dyno'd my car with NO air box at 15psi.....0 improvement. It was 60 degrees in the shop when we did it. Sucking hot air...nope. Intake air temp was consistent. Why would you waste the time or money in getting more air in, when those tiny little compressors are barely maxxing out the stock intake. All you get is noise. It's a placebo effect...if you felt something, it was your panties ruffling...:hihi:. Spend your money elsewhere....lighter wheels do more for performance than an intake on this car...

[ttboost]

Now, to be fair, what an intake MAY do is reduce the MASS of hot equipment under the hood, resulting in less LOSS of power, which is not what I experienced, but I suppose it could happen...

[Bigglezworth]

There are zero volume problems with the air feed to the turbos in our cars, and zero advantages to a ram air effect on a forced induction car. Keep the incoming air cool and you have a denser charge with more oxygen. More oxygen equals more power. Keep your filters clean, don't use oily cotton filters that foul your MAF sensors, and voila - you're set. The stock air intake does this just fine.

[lswing]

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/colbert-popcorn.gif

[Del Stator]

The car I am having tested does have stock turbos. I might come to the same conclusion that ttboost has. But I am going to test for myself.

I really have little interest in what a stock turbo RS6 does but this is where I am going to start.

As I am going to be upgrading my turbos to a larger inlet, I will then continue to test on my car.

There are conversations going on lately about much higher HP RS6s and people having more manual transmission allowing for bigger turbos, it would seem prudent to began documenting what is found.

ttboost: I would have appreciated you posting your dyno information when you did your testing. Sorry, this is the internet, without dyno charts your testing means nothing to me.

My next step will be to have the stock airbox put on a flow bench. I can also have the FMU intake tested but I actually more interested in completely building my own from scratch...and by people who build intakes....not from parts found at Lowe's.

[Bigglezworth]

Apparently no one has seen the compressor wheel of an RS6 turbocharger...it's about the size of a quarter....Small turbine and compressors in dual configuration to enable quick spool-up. Compare the diminutive K04 to the Paxton I have on my NSX and you can quickly see how small the air inlet and outlet is on the KO4's.
1591515916

[hahnmgh63]

It isn't just the size of the inlet & outlet though Bigz it is also the velocity and pressure that have an equal effect on the Volume flowing. Different Turbos spin at different rates so a smaller Turbo at higher RPM can flow the air of a larger Turbo at a slower RPM. Their are advantages and drawbacks to both, heat & lag to name two.

[ttboost]

The car I am having tested does have stock turbos. I might come to the same conclusion that ttboost has. But I am going to test for myself.

I really have little interest in what a stock turbo RS6 does but this is where I am going to start.

As I am going to be upgrading my turbos to a larger inlet, I will then continue to test on my car.

There are conversations going on lately about much higher HP RS6s and people having more manual transmission allowing for bigger turbos, it would seem prudent to began documenting what is found.

ttboost: I would have appreciated you posting your dyno information when you did your testing. Sorry, this is the internet, without dyno charts your testing means nothing to me.

My next step will be to have the stock airbox put on a flow bench. I can also have the FMU intake tested but I actually more interested in completely building my own from scratch...and by people who build intakes....not from parts found at Lowe's.

No worries. Dyno's mean nothing to me, they also can be manipulated. And for the record, I am not trying to piss on your parade. I seem to recall posting something a long time ago...probably during the big "FMU Group Buy", way back when, but I could be wrong. I think that FMU thread is a good example of an intake being touted as the next best thing, but no data and ultimately they are being handed around like $10 whores now. I seem to recall seeing 2 or 3 for sale in the last year or two. I enjoy fabricating as much as the next guy and have fabricated more than one turbo system for a car, myself. Doing your own fabricating is where you learn what works and what doesn't. I'll just try to summarize by saying: with stock turbos, you will not find any appreciable gains in power, with anything other than a stock intake. If you gain 2, 3 maybe 5hp, I would be stunned, and amazed. I don't own my car anymore, and it's not because I didn't like it, I actually loved it, but without significant changes, you are very limited to what you have. That being said, I hope you have better luck than I did!!!

[Del Stator]

My plan is to get the most efficient sized turbo with the largest intake that doesn't create too much lag and can hit relatively high boost for these cars.

I like what Milka did with the intake MAF pipe by enlarging it. I am open to creating an entirely new path from the outside air to air filter to MAFs and then turbo intake inlet. Here was his comments about MAFs.

Milka,

"Originally started with the RS6 MAFs but they maxed out at 15psi through the GTX30s. Hence I modified the stock airbox and mounting to accept B5 S4/R32 MAFs. These only added a little bit of extra air and anything around 17psi maxed out the R32 MAFs/sensors. So then went to the following setup with B5 RS4 MAFs. This is the home built intake, I have since added some brackets to hold things in place and painted the silver/grey intake ducts to Matt Black.
I then had some slight variations in the airflow so decided to change over to the A8 MAFs which are exactly the same as the B5 RS4 except they have flow straighteners on them."

1591915920

I am not really sold on his intake design as I see it here, but I agree with the upsizing of intake tubing.

I would love for the stock airbox to flow enough air. I would be extremely happy about that. I don't care about redesigning what doesn't need to be. But I am not convinced yet that it can flow 35psi. I am just making up a number but can it???? I don't know...

[ttboost]

My plan is to get the most efficient sized turbo with the largest intake that doesn't create too much lag and can hit relatively high boost for these cars.

I like what Milka did with the intake MAF pipe by enlarging it. I am open to creating an entirely new path from the outside air to air filter to MAFs and then turbo intake inlet. Here was his comments about MAFs.

Milka,

"Originally started with the RS6 MAFs but they maxed out at 15psi through the GTX30s. Hence I modified the stock airbox and mounting to accept B5 S4/R32 MAFs. These only added a little bit of extra air and anything around 17psi maxed out the R32 MAFs/sensors. So then went to the following setup with B5 RS4 MAFs. This is the home built intake, I have since added some brackets to hold things in place and painted the silver/grey intake ducts to Matt Black.
I then had some slight variations in the airflow so decided to change over to the A8 MAFs which are exactly the same as the B5 RS4 except they have flow straighteners on them."

1591915920

I am not really sold on his intake design as I see it here, but I agree with the upsizing of intake tubing.

I would love for the stock airbox to flow enough air. I would be extremely happy about that. I don't care about redesigning what doesn't need to be. But I am not convinced yet that it can flow 35psi. I am just making up a number but can it???? I don't know...




















Not sure how much you've dug into this engine and stock turbo setup, but if you want bigger turbos, it will likely require headers too. Apologies if you know this, but the stock compressor is SO close to the manifold, modifying the stock turbo is an effort in futility. Machining the stock compressor with a bigger compressor wheel, will only yield hotter air. I've attached a picture of the left side turbo. You can see how close the compressor housing is to the manifold. And the reality is, the turbine side is the REAL bottleneck too. I had BIG intentions with my car, but once I got the engine out and started looking at what needed to be done to get any real power out of this thing...I bailed.

15921

[Del Stator]

Pretty much everything on my personal car is being modified. That is the reason I am now trying to see what is the best way to get the most amount of air in.

I am building custom headers that may or may not be using the stock mounting location. But that is a conversation for my build thread.

I want to concentrate on getting more air to the turbos and not get derailed on whether it is needed for someone's particular application. That is for them to decided on their own.

[s8prtotype]

I'm wondering if any of you have installed the heat reflective tape to this car??

I never got around to it as most my project cars weren't as compact as this one is, but I do know the "real" silver is the best stuff to use (F1 cars use it, but more expensive) as opposed to the crazy looking gold.

You also gotta be careful and not get the fake stuff....

http://www.thermalprotectioninc.com/Heat_Reflective_Films.html


I think trying to combat the heat might be more beneficial than trying to force more air into the stock turbos in our application, you could wrap the tubes, bottom of the carbon box and even the turbo inlet tubes with this stuff, the entire intake would then reflect 90% of the radiant heat in our engine bay. I think I could get along with the silver over the gold aesthetically.

I also think our intake manifold could use phenolic spacers or the real deal black ceramic coating from jethot, along with the manifolds.

A link to the good stuff! : http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/silver-reflective-film-per-linear-ft-13863.html

[s8prtotype]

To add to that, a quick search leads to the milka build thread... (as well as Fluid Motor Unions build) and it looks like he simply ported the 1.8T Phenolic spacers and they worked.

I'm just wondering if the "big port" AEB spacers are close to our port size on the heads/intake...

034 has them for only $57 Each...

http://store.034motorsport.com/intake-manifold-spacer-1-8t-phenolic.html

[Del Stator]

Good info on the silver insulation wrap. In some applications I have liked the gold but definitely prefer the silver.

Thanks!

[audiprotn]

Randomly found it on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171738899127?nav=SEARCH

[tightgroup]

I am wondering how come when we talk about induction we never never talk about exhaust or anyone care to mention manifold. The principle is simple , for one we have an air pump called an engine, which has a displacement of 4.2 liters. So in an NA situation it swallows 4.2 liters of air in( 4 strokes * 8 pistons) so the air pump must exhale the same amount , within those 4 strokes as well. In an forced induction the air pump seems to have more displacement due to the fact we force more air into the pump. The restrictive values are seen at the exhaust stage primarily due the fact that exhaust manifolds are not the most efficeint, you normally are cramped for space and their every hot which does not help expulsion.

So if you have bigger turbos ( and let's not get into the discussion of ignition, fueling, timing and sheer design strength) you need to account for the evacuation of said bigger volume of air. ( now if you had a diesel well that's another story) So again plan for the entire cycle of air movement from entry to exhaust. Someone mentioned cooler air IMHO that is the way to go. , look also at your stock exhaust and see what a reputable shop can do for you. Do not forget to get a custom remap to maximize your new enhanced breathing pump.

[Del Stator]

I believe everyone knows that you need larger exhaust manifolds to make bigger power. It has been discussed a lot... I will be having some made as soon as that becomes the next step.

It seems like it is almost an impossible task to get people to do what they are hired to do. Not only on my RS6 project but on my Ford Cummins project and 4 rotor RX7 project. I waited almost a year to get a custom gear set made for my RS6 six speed that is being installed. Terry Griffin has still not had his old car dynoed with and without the stock intake stuff that was originally spoke of in this thread.

I am sort of over thread making on the forum. It all seems like it turns into much ado about nothing.

When my car is done I will post up pictures and results. But it will definitely have custom exhaust headers.

Thanks for listening to my venting....

[wes]

i think a lot of people that have previously posted have lost the plot of the initial thread.

COLD air COOLER air will increase the performance, although only slightly, there will still be an increase.

The thread was labelled:
RS6 Cold Air Intake Options (http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/31788-RS6-Cold-Air-Intake-Options/page3)
not modified bigger air intake options?

[ttboost]

I think it's been said many, many times, but the single biggest restriction in the RS6 exhaust system is the turbine housing, period. The stock exhaust flows plenty for what's there from the factory. Doing any exhaust work (other than de-catting) is a waste of time with stock turbos, in my opinion. Downpipes would be next restriction...

[lswing]

I am sort of over thread making on the forum. It all seems like it turns into much ado about nothing.

That's because nothing has happened with your car :harass:...sorry, couldn't resist.

There was a good amount of reasonable feedback I thought, mostly regarding what works and what doesn't, and what would cost a lot of cash to achieve. I do understand that you have a set plan in mind, and it gets tiring to have it questioned I'm sure. Looking forward to seeing some pics of the progress, and more information on how it all goes!

[Del Stator]

That's because nothing has happened with your car :harass:...sorry, couldn't resist.

Sad but true... :cry:

[nubcake]

Had a couple of (relatively) free days on dyno, so did some testing with the buddy's RS6.
Bottom line is - for anything bigger, than stock turbos, stock intake is very restrictive.
Attaching a picture of 2 dyno charts & 2 overlaid airflow logs. It's the same car, essentially the same tune, but 2 different runs. One was with a stock airbox & filters. The other one with an open airbox (filter elements & airbox cover removed).

Don't mind slightly different onset, I picked slightly different runs (as I didn't plan on posting this initially).
Anyway, you can clearly see, that airflow peaks out at certain voltage & that's pretty much it, turbos can't get more air. (In the log plot, red is "voltage", which is more accurate, than the purple "airflow").
Without filters/cover - you get an extra ~22 g/s, which can translate to 30-35hp difference at 6000+ RPM!
Even then, you get a certain "air flatline", and that seems to be a restriction from the intake piping (MAF to turbos). It's already mildly ported in this car, but having something completely custom there might be much more beneficial.

Bear in mind, this is much less relevant for stock turbos. This car has loba 650s (and they struggle to make even 600 due to intake/exhaust restrictions).

EDIT:
I'm in metricland, so "tq" is newton-meters.

EDIT2:
KN filters make 0 difference, compared to paper stockers. Or, well, maybe not 0, but within 1hp. Not helping with the airbox issue, pretty much.

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19111&stc=1https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19112&stc=1

[GreggPDX]

That's some great info! I really want to try swapping the stock intake with something like the Apikol kit, back-to-back at the drag strip and see what happens in the real world. If anyone wants to loan me one of their kits, I'll do the testing!

[RS8]

With stock RS6 airbox I had 613hp and 864Nm
And with an open airbox I got 634hp and 883Nm
With modified RS6 turbos.

Now I run 2 rounded Simota Carbon fiber airbox and now it is only 2hp difference with or without these.

[nubcake]

With stock RS6 airbox I had 613hp and 864Nm
And with an open airbox I got 634hp and 883Nm
With modified RS6 turbos.

Now I run 2 rounded Simota Carbon fiber airbox and now it is only 2hp difference with or without these.

Exactly matches my observations.
What's even more important - it's not as much about peak numbers, as about the area under the curve (difference towards redline is even more noticeable).
Did you retain stock MAF location & housings? MAF to turbo piping?

[RS8]

Yes the curve was higher all the way.
Here is the dyno papier from 2016:
pull 1 with airbox= 609hp
pull 2 No airbox = 634hp
pull 3 with airbox = 613hp

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19113&stc=1

But now with Simota I use MaxxEcu so I don't use MAF's anymore,
but I think it should have worked with the MAF in stock place.

[hahnmgh63]

Which model of Simota airboxes? USP motorsports makes these for the MQB platform, I wonder if two of these would work pretty well?
19118

[RS8]

The biggest Simota I could find, it has 89mm neck size in and out (I think the RS6 airbox inlett is about 100mm)

Simota SM-BX-007

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19119&stc=1

[jibberjive]

https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19111&stc=1https://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19112&stc=1
Good info, I was searching for exactly this.

nubcake, have you ever, or do you often, max out the RS6 MAF's? Just trying to figure out the limit of the stock MAF's in the stock housings.

[nubcake]

Good info, I was searching for exactly this.

nubcake, have you ever, or do you often, max out the RS6 MAF's? Just trying to figure out the limit of the stock MAF's in the stock housings.

What's there to figure out?
You have the exact max value in MLHFM table.
Which is ~292.5 g/s or 1053.3 kg/h.

[jibberjive]

What's there to figure out?
You have the exact max value in MLHFM table.
Which is ~292.5 g/s or 1053.3 kg/h.
Have you ever, or do you often, max out the stock MAF's in stock housings on RS6 K04 based turbos?

[nubcake]

It'll never flow enough to hit the limit with any kind of K04, really. Too many restrictions everywhere.
If you want to run 700+ chp (equivalent of maxing out MAFs), you need to redo the whole intake tract anyway.
My own car did throw the "MAF exceeded" DTC occasionally with TD04/K04 hybrids a few years back, but that was probably just a fluke.

[jibberjive]

It'll never flow enough to hit the limit with any kind of K04, really. Too many restrictions everywhere.
If you want to run 700+ chp (equivalent of maxing out MAFs), you need to redo the whole intake tract anyway.
My own car did throw the "MAF exceeded" DTC occasionally with TD04/K04 hybrids a few years back, but that was probably just a fluke.

I am going to be creating larger inlets (and, informed by your and RS8's data from this thread regarding the stock airbox, I'll also be running a larger intake rather than even playing around with the stock airbox). I may even make the larger inlets for people to run on OEM RS6 coldsides. Just deciding whether or not to throw HPX MAF's on there from the get-go, but it looks like I'll leave the stock MAF's and swap them out if/when I get there. So thanks for the input on the MAF's as well, as there aren't too many people playing with the calibration on these cars.

[IchBautAuto]

I have some very vague shots of the championship RS6 from 2004??. Does anyone know much about it and the airbox that was developed for it. Would seem to me that subject to useability, that would be a good starting point for an intake system compared with some that are on the market for mega bucks.