Best Engine Oil?

[Primo]

What is your recommendations? I don't believe that the standard diesel longlife oil is the best for the BCY engine. Your thoughts? Feel free to attach pictures.

[hahnmgh63]

I use Redline 5W-40 as it has the highest HTHS (High Temp High Shear) rating in the 5W-40 weight that I know of. I know their are some other boutique oils that are suppose to be real good, Joe Gibbs, MPT, Brad Penn, (and don't forget Blue Quantum with DHall1's excellent oil analysis), etc.... I know Amsoil, Liqui Moly and others are quite good also but many of the companies don't test their oils to the European specifications which makes it hard to compare. Even then, I still use a little extra ZDDP (ZDDP Plus) with my Redline .

[essexmetal]

The oil brand subject pops up every few months and across every automotive forum. Everyone has an opinion and are loyal to a specific brand. Sometimes based on nothing more than listening to corporate marketing or based on true empirical data. I have been involved with powertrain engineering for 30 years and based on that experience and seeing the effects of lubricants on hardware I will offer the following.
First off oils are better these days than when the factory fills were going in RS6's in 2003. The engine tolerances were developed to a defined specification. The manufacturer has a vested interest in putting in the best lubricant possible. It is not an area where saving a few pennies verses warranty cost makes for a sound business decision. In our case it is VW spec 505 01. Find an oil that meets it and you have the lubricant that is adequate for your car.

I don't think many of the owners of RS6's run them to 20% of how the engine was validated. With that said the toughest requirement for oil is not banging off shifts at redline as much as it is sitting stopped at idle, in traffic, in gear and with the AC on. Maybe ambient air temp is 80 degs maybe it is close to 100 degs. That is where you are going to ask the most out of your oil's film strength. The cams are most at risk since the oil pressure at idle is low and so is the viscosity. Like everyone, I have specific brands that I trust. These days they are Group 4 based oils and all have ZDDP. If I need max duty then a Group 5 Ester base, but I seldom have a requirement because the track use is not that severe. I am staying away from the mention of brands as that brings marketing into play. Base stock and observing specifications is more important the label colors. One of the best things you can do for getting the best out of any oil is change it. Yes...... modern oils have extended change intervals and modern engines function around those intervals. For me pull the plug and get the stuff out of there. The microparticles and acids that the filter does not remove are out and a fresh level of additives are back in.
Rick

[A4V8swap]

I run Shell Rotella T6 in my cars and bikes. Used it for a while now.

[Primo]

Thanks for the awesome reply, Rick!!! :)

[Avus-RS6]

I like Amsoil for street use, Joe Gibbs DT40 for track use. I'm definitely not an oil expert but know that my Audi's don't consume these oils like they do cheaper synthetics like Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntech.

[mik15]

What is your recommendations? I don't believe that the standard diesel longlife oil is the best for the BCY engine. Your thoughts? Feel free to attach pictures.

i had the same question when i bought my first RS6 so i've asked around and even sent an email to Quattro GMBH asking about it and this is the answer i got:

" Dear Mr. XXXX,

thank you very much for your message. Most oil companies have been phasing out engine oil according to VW specification 50501 because of the low demand. This oil was once meant to be used in heavy duty Diesel engines but due to its outstanding shear stability under high temperature we decided to use it for the RS 6 V8 twin turbo engine. The main reason for this move was the position of the turbo chargers which are pretty far located from the engine block and therefore from the oil supplying pump. After driving under extreme conditions, e.g. with high speed or under high load for a longer period of time and very high outside temperature, the oil pressure could drop to low levels when going back to idle.
Theoretically, engine oil to VW specification 50500 is not able to compensate the attributes of VW 50501 but the viscosity range of 0W-40 will stabilize oil pressure when the engine and turbo chargers are extremely hot. Hence, potential engine damage is not really an issue if VW 50500 is being used and there is no necessity to do drain this oil immediately.

The official substitute of VW specification 50501 is actually VW 50400, even it is mostly available in 5W-30, for example but without official endorsement MOBIL 1 ESP FORMULA 5W-30. We recommend to use VW 50400 when the next engine oil service is due (every 15000 km).

Kind Regards & Merry Christmas
Hanns Breiter
quattro GmbH
Kundendienst
quattro GmbH
N/VQ-52
Postfach 1144
74148 Neckarsulm
......................................"

i've posted this before but i think that thread is no longer here. Based on this i am only running a 505.01 oil, which for the last 3 years it has been Liqui Moly TopTec4100 5w40.

So conclusion would be, as others have also suggested, use a 505.01 oil.

Then again, as Herr H. Breiter says, a 505.00 such as Mobil 1 0w40 isn't really a threat to the engine and could be used but it doesn't have their official endorsement, maybe because they didn't really test it in all conditions so they don't want to take any risks. My second RS6 has been serviced using M1 0w40 from the very first service, and that was the Audi dealer doing so, why have they used it against what Audi DE say have no idea, but the car has now 147k miles and runs strong.

I hope this helps a bit, though it can also make things more difficult as it is a bit conflicting but these are the facts.

[RS8]

I run hard on the track with my Rs6 Engine,
I come up in 125 degrees celsius (257 fahrenheit) on the oil, and 120 degrees celsius on the water before I drive slowly to cool it down, but I also replace oil several times a year even though it runs very little.
In Europe it is Castrol Audi uses, and I have run on their 5w-30 Edge FST that has specification VW 504.00 / 507.00


But maybe I should try the diesel oil 5w-40 / 505.01 next year.

[RS8]

I will not use diesel oil in my engine after I have asked a question to an oil company about the difference between diesel and gasoline oil,
And I gave them the information you got from Hanns Breiter quattro GmbH about diesel oil vw 505.01
They said this:
We do not recommend you abandon the specifications VW / Audi specify.
The disadvantage on the other hand if you use Diesel oil is the higher ash content (cleaning performance) in the diesel engine oil. You risk a surplus of detergents sulfate ash which not used in a gasoline engine, which means that piston ring grooves can be full of this, so the rings become more sluggish and ends to flex as they should. Although dirt deposits in the combustion chamber can ensue.


These additives are metallic and sits down as hard coking topics around the combustion chamber, valve seats and piston rings.
In a gasoline engine oil, it is less of these additives.

The only option outside the VW 504.00 is a fully synthetic oil according to ACEA A3 / B4

In the end, it is you who make decisions about how to do .........

So next year I will use an oil with specifications ACEA A3 / B4 with viscosity 0W-40.

[s8prtotype]

Just seen this on another forum...

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

His test are putting the 5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil as the #1 go to for extreme wear protection without any additives.

Plenty of reading in that link as well. :)

[RS8]

That was a lot of text... and he says this about diesel oil:

The poor wear protection performance of all but the one particular Diesel oil (place:17. 5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic), makes it very clear that in general, Diesel oils are a poor choice for High Performance gas engines.

Comparing the overall averages, you can see that these Diesel oils fell victim to heat about 15* F earlier than the gasoline engine oils that were tested. So, that is another reason why using Diesel oils in High Performance gas engines, is a poor choice.

[G2]

When I had a near new S4 V8 in '05, used Amsoil Diesel 15-40 AME in it at 4-6K intervals. I am fantatical about service and pay close attention to how the oil looks, among other things. Anyone with the timing chain motors know how bad it can look with metal particles. I see that all the time with customer cars, whether Audi or BMW.

The diesel oil did a great job protecting the S4 motor.

Due to the turbochargers on the BCY, I use Amsoil 5-40 Euro EFM full SAPS additive oil (for Euro spec oils anyway. About 75% of levels offered in other Amsoil lubes). it is rated for both gas and diesel engines. And with the new 5-50 Signature Series might give that a try, especially for summer use.

Last time I peered into the cylinders with a boroscope, it was extremely clean. The low burn-off (NOACK spec) I think was partly to thank. And the fact these cars have oil coolers, which drastically helps. Overall, to me, theres more to oil than it's ultimate PSI rating. That's great for extreme situations. Based on what I see day in, day out, years in years out and over the decades, we need an oil that excels in several areas-- again not just in PSI loading. It has to last and resist burn off and keep PH in check. The oil temperature issue

While I prefer Amsoil, have also used other top tier brands, going back to the late 80's when Castrol let me down. And Redline stepped in.

The oil debate will never cease....

I think one would have to do some extensive batch testing with UOA to truly quantify things. Or like what Amsoil does: takes engines apart and sends them out for 3rd party assessment. Not that they are the "best" in every category, but it's great to see a company lay it on the line with real world testing. Amsoil is a family run business, small for a petroleum manufacturer, and gets to pick exactly what to use in it's oil. From what I see they do a great and consistent job all all price points. They side step the advertising hype and let the products, tests, and racers speak. Cool in my book.

[nistah]

Necro bumping this thread need some oil, can anyone confirm that the following oil which is 505.01 complaint works fine with our beasts or suggest a viable alternative...TIA
Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil 5 Quart
Visit the Valvoline Store (https://www.amazon.com/stores/Valvoline/page/BBA7BD05-6859-4233-AFE0-7FB23C45A38C?ref_=ast_bln)


4.7 4.7 out of 5 stars 1,832 ratings (https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-881166-European-Vehicle-Synthetic/dp/B07ZCQWMWS/ref=sr_1_2?content-id=amzn1.sym.d3f43d11-fd5a-4179-8b1e-1a03d11e07f4%3Aamzn1.sym.d3f43d11-fd5a-4179-8b1e-1a03d11e07f4&crid=1UN2WR3CTXG9Y&keywords=505+01+oil&pd_rd_r=0439aef4-14f0-46f7-9951-f96ac0af8ae0&pd_rd_w=UPs0f&pd_rd_wg=W1Yli&pf_rd_p=d3f43d11-fd5a-4179-8b1e-1a03d11e07f4&pf_rd_r=5WB9AJY1W72FPYPK4EP1&pid=ylq5v2T&qid=1687986221&sprefix=505+01+oil%2Caps%2C96&sr=1-2&vehicle=2003-73-995-20--1-6-6-7593-2492-1-1-2329--&vehicleName=2003+Audi+RS6#customerReviews)










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About this item ADVANCED PROTECTION IN EUROPEAN VEHICLES agains the four main causes of engine breakdown: wear friction heat and deposits
EXTRA WEAR PROTECTION vs. industry and OEM standards with advanced anti-wear additives
SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE FOR EUROPEAN gasoline and diesel engines
EXCEPTIONAL HIGH/LOW TEMPERATURE PROTECTION defends your engine no matter the climate or driving conditions
MEETS OR EXCEEDS ALL REQUIREMENTS of API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, MB 229.5, 229.3, & 226.5, VW 50200/50500 & 50501, BMW LL-01 & LL-14FE plus, Porche A40, Renault RN0700 & RN0710, PSA B71 2296, and Chrysler MS-12633/ MS-10725
AMERICAN MADE & FORMULATED to maximize your engine’s life and improve it’s performance

[hahnmgh63]

Looks like it would be Ok oil but only meets the minimum 505.01 specs. 505.01 calls for a minimum HTHS (High Temp High Shear) of 3.6 and the Valvoline is spec'd at 3.7.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/b332d30e-6788-e911-9c22-ac162d889bd1/3198f1c7-8798-e911-9c25-ac162d889bd1
For a much better oil that will probably cost you $30~$40 more per oil change take a look at Redline 5w-40. There HTHS is one of the highest in that weight of 4.4
https://www.redlineoil.com/5w40-motor-oil
Now an oil that is at least equal or maybe better (I've had a couple of great oil analysis and D. Hall on here has had some great ones too) is the BND Quantum Blue. I've started using it in my RS5, RS6, and S5. I still using the Redline in my other vehicles. If you go with the Redline, don't get the Euro Series oil, you want the regular High Performance 5w-40. The Euro Series is for the newer Direct Injection cars and has lower amounts of Calcium, Zinc, and Phosphorus, and because of that has a lower HTHS but causes lower deposits in the intake valves of DI motors which ours is not.
Engine oil is something I don't go cheap on. It's cheap insurance and I do drive fairly spirited and or DE track events occasionally so it's better to buy the best.