Needing a new engine or maybe just new heads

[Rustic]

I've lurked here for almost a decade, gleaning what I could from this great forum but now I find myself in need of some help for an issue I can't resolve on my own.
I started having some cam tensioner noises and, to make a long story short, the fixes are adding up to more than the car is worth.
I have about 124k on the car and have had no real problems up until now but I believe that finding a salvaged engine may be the most economical way of staying on the "crazy train".
I have been in contact with the guy selling one on ebay and it seems a good option, but was wondering if folks on this forum knew of an engine out there where they knew the background of that particular engine. (Folks who are salvaging their own cars etc.)

Any help would be appreciated.

[ben916]

What are the symptoms besides
some cam tensioner noises?

From one Long time lurker to another WELCOME!!!!
I thought I had the record but you might have me beat (registered in Nov 2006, lurked for 4 years, car purchased in Feb 2010, sold in Jun 2013)

Another PNW RS6!!!
Details on yours? VIN?

Indy shop doing the work or Stealership?

[DHall1]

Engine. Does someone need an engine ?

[DHall1]

I also have low mileage cam tensioners

[Rustic]

Indy shop. 124k Daily Driver DRC is the only real problem it ever had. It's really just been one thing after another since I heard just a faint sound. Something was starving the oil (only at low pressure) to the cam tensioners so I needed to replace them, it was time for a Tbelt change etc and while its out 's add that on O2, EGV ...Then notice that whatever had got in to starve the oil to the tensioners had also got into the cam bearings and that can't be polished out so new/rebuilt heads but still nothing definitive of what went wrong...Just not sure what the next best step is at this point.

[DHall1]

Engine

......



Indy shop. 124k Daily Driver DRC is the only real problem it ever had. It's really just been one thing after another since I heard just a faint sound. Something was starving the oil (only at low pressure) to the cam tensioners so I needed to replace them, it was time for a Tbelt change etc and while its out 's add that on O2, EGV ...Then notice that whatever had got in to starve the oil to the tensioners had also got into the cam bearings and that can't be polished out so new/rebuilt heads but still nothing definitive of what went wrong...Just not sure what the next best step is at this point.

[4everRS]

Does the engine run? If so, I'm confused as to why you think you need a new one. A used engine for this car is over 10k. Count on at least another 5-8k to do the work to r&r. I would think that if the thing still runs, you could fix what's wrong for less than that.

[Rustic]

Does the engine run? If so, I'm confused as to why you think you need a new one. A used engine for this car is over 10k. Count on at least another 5-8k to do the work to r&r. I would think that if the thing still runs, you could fix what's wrong for less than that.
I guess that is what I am trying to figure out. What does a used engine go for? etc. The engine runs fine. The only reason I took it in was I was hearing a clickety clack just at throttle tip in. I was worried that it was the tranny. I then found I could recreate the sound by slightly raising the rpms with the brake engaged. I would get the same light clatter maybe between 1100up to 1200 rpms and then no sound at all. It ran just fine. But once into it, the cost of the tensioners and now heads on a 124k engine is making me look at options. I haven't ruled anything out as yet.

[SteveKen]

I guess that is what I am trying to figure out. What does a used engine go for? etc. The engine runs fine. The only reason I took it in was I was hearing a clickety clack just at throttle tip in. I was worried that it was the tranny. I then found I could recreate the sound by slightly raising the rpms with the brake engaged. I would get the same light clatter maybe between 1100up to 1200 rpms and then no sound at all. It ran just fine. But once into it, the cost of the tensioners and now heads on a 124k engine is making me look at options. I haven't ruled anything out as yet.


That valvetrain noise is normal. I've heard it on every RS6 I've driven, which is maybe 5 or so.

I can hear it when slowly raising the RPMs at idle.

I hope that you didn't tear into the heads over this.

Crappy oil might have been the cause of your oil starved cam bearing caps.

[Corbett]

If you need heads I have 2 complete heads I can probably let go

[4everRS]

OK, just my opinion here, so take it for what it's worth.

I do not get valvetrain noise on my car. If you've owned this thing for a long time (which none of us know yet) and your experiencing sounds you've never heard before, you likely have a problem. The question is, is it being diagnosed properly? You're Indy shop is apparently telling you, you need to rebuild the heads. I have never heard of this on these motors.

If you're cam tensioners are bad, you should get a code. Have you scanned the ecu for fault code? What are they?

[4everRS]

Please give us more details about the car, your ownership, when the noises started, scanned codes, ect.

[ben916]

I guess that is what I am trying to figure out. What does a used engine go for? etc. The engine runs fine. The only reason I took it in was I was hearing a clickety clack just at throttle tip in. I was worried that it was the tranny. I then found I could recreate the sound by slightly raising the rpms with the brake engaged. I would get the same light clatter maybe between 1100up to 1200 rpms and then no sound at all. It ran just fine. But once into it, the cost of the tensioners and now heads on a 124k engine is making me look at options. I haven't ruled anything out as yet.

OK, THIS in bold, I had that sound at day one of ownership (I was a 2nd owner of a 36k mile Fastest Colored RS6).
I would drive in multi level parking structures and could hear the clickety clack as soon as I would press on throttle and I never had a code for it.
I changed the oil = same sound
I had the dealership look/listen = same sound and they scratched their head with which they sit upon.
I had the indy look/listen = same sound and was honest and stated that I could have dumped a "S" ton of $ at it and get no where.

Result = car ran great until the day I sold it.

What did Bruce Willis say in Die Hard when shootin the bad guys?? Yippy ki yi yea mother flowers!!!!

[Rustic]

Please give us more details about the car, your ownership, when the noises started, scanned codes, ect.
I've owned the car for 8 years or so. 2nd owner. Always maintained. The noise was new and as I said, I just started to notice that I would here that sound when I would blip the throttle (in gear) and when it was hot. (no noise when cold. Oil was good, level correct. Car was running fine except for that sound. It was diagnosed that the Cam tensioners were getting low oil pressure which was causing the rattle but as soon as the RPMs brought up the pressure, the sound would go away. Once the tensioners were removed, there is a little screen over the oil inlet that you can see has been damaged (curiously on both sides) Whatever went through there also got into the first bearing on both sides and scared up that bearing enough that the shop believes it needs new heads (or at least one) We have pulled the oil pan and there doesn't seem to be anything unusual in there. Now, I understand that I am at the mercy of the shop and my own lack of experience with the engine (I rebuilt a couple of vw bug engines in years past but that is the extent of my wrenching) but the mesh and the scoring were obviously there.

[Rustic]

I've owned the car for 8 years or so. 2nd owner. Always maintained. The noise was new and as I said, I just started to notice that I would here that sound when I would blip the throttle (in gear) and when it was hot. (no noise when cold. Oil was good, level correct. Car was running fine except for that sound. It was diagnosed that the Cam tensioners were getting low oil pressure which was causing the rattle but as soon as the RPMs brought up the pressure, the sound would go away. Once the tensioners were removed, there is a little screen over the oil inlet that you can see has been damaged (curiously on both sides) Whatever went through there also got into the first bearing on both sides and scared up that bearing enough that the shop believes it needs new heads (or at least one) We have pulled the oil pan and there doesn't seem to be anything unusual in there. Now, I understand that I am at the mercy of the shop and my own lack of experience with the engine (I rebuilt a couple of vw bug engines in years past but that is the extent of my wrenching) but the mesh and the scoring were obviously there.
There wee no CEL and I didn't read any codes nor ask the shop for codes thrown.

[Rustic]

If you need heads I have 2 complete heads I can probably let go
PM me with what you want for them. Thanks

[yokust]

I also have a complete motor from a low mileage wrecked car has 35k on it.

[Bigglezworth]

I also have a complete motor from a low mileage wrecked car has 35k on it.Was that your illfated car??

[yokust]

Was that your illfated car??

No not my car, bought this one to turn a S6 into a RS6. But owner of S6 is not sure he wants to spend the money for the motor swap is happy with his just 6spd right now and RS6 body work.

The poor car was salvaged titled at 20k for hail damage, and I think Helen Keller repaired and painted it, and then had trans fail and rear end damage. Sadly even with super low miles, not worth repainting the car and putting a trans in it

[DHall1]

You have my email. Option could be to sell the car as is and not risk major $$ down the drain.

I need a clean body donor car with a blown driveline.


I've lurked here for almost a decade, gleaning what I could from this great forum but now I find myself in need of some help for an issue I can't resolve on my own.
I started having some cam tensioner noises and, to make a long story short, the fixes are adding up to more than the car is worth.
I have about 124k on the car and have had no real problems up until now but I believe that finding a salvaged engine may be the most economical way of staying on the "crazy train".
I have been in contact with the guy selling one on ebay and it seems a good option, but was wondering if folks on this forum knew of an engine out there where they knew the background of that particular engine. (Folks who are salvaging their own cars etc.)

Any help would be appreciated.

[mik15]

i too had the same sound on my first RS6 with 65k miles on it and i have it as well on my second one with 143k miles, yet it is a tad more noticeable on the higher mileage one. But i heard that noise on all RS6 C5 i drove, and 2 of them were at 30k miles and 45k miles respectively, so i am not worried. A friend of mine replaced the cam tensioners and the noise did disappear for a while, however it has now came back.

If that is your problem i wouldn't replace that engine for this reason, oh no, don't do that!

[MaxRS6]

^+1- Slight rattle could merely be cam tensioners, or even low oil or change.

I would take that thing to another trusted tech for another opinion.

[DHall1]

Guys

The physical damage cant be denied. Cam journal wear and screen failure.

Replace the engine complete and not take any chances.

[ben916]

I've owned the car for 8 years or so. 2nd owner. Always maintained. The noise was new and as I said, I just started to notice that I would here that sound when I would blip the throttle (in gear) and when it was hot. (no noise when cold. Oil was good, level correct. Car was running fine except for that sound. It was diagnosed that the Cam tensioners were getting low oil pressure which was causing the rattle but as soon as the RPMs brought up the pressure, the sound would go away. Once the tensioners were removed, there is a little screen over the oil inlet that you can see has been damaged (curiously on both sides) Whatever went through there also got into the first bearing on both sides and scared up that bearing enough that the shop believes it needs new heads (or at least one) We have pulled the oil pan and there doesn't seem to be anything unusual in there. Now, I understand that I am at the mercy of the shop and my own lack of experience with the engine (I rebuilt a couple of vw bug engines in years past but that is the extent of my wrenching) but the mesh and the scoring were obviously there.

Are you going to Redmond European?
I don't know enough about PNW shops so I can't recommend any. I had University Audi do my timing belt.

From what you indicate about the foreign body causing scoring on the bearing, a new head(s) would be more than likely the correct diagnosis.
What is possibly more concerning is that the FB as not been located and may still be in a line causing "arteriosclerosis".

[DHall1]

Or bodies

?........



Are you going to Redmond European?
I don't know enough about PNW shops so I can't recommend any. I had University Audi do my timing belt.

From what you indicate about the foreign body causing scoring on the bearing, a new head(s) would be more than likely the correct diagnosis.
What is possibly more concerning is that the FB as not been located and may still be in a line causing "arteriosclerosis".

[Rustic]

Are you going to Redmond European?
I don't know enough about PNW shops so I can't recommend any. I had University Audi do my timing belt.

From what you indicate about the foreign body causing scoring on the bearing, a new head(s) would be more than likely the correct diagnosis.
What is possibly more concerning is that the FB as not been located and may still be in a line causing "arteriosclerosis".
Yes, Redmond European. And yes, that is the concern. I don't want to treat the symptoms and leave the disease unknown.

[ben916]

Yes, Redmond European. And yes, that is the concern. I don't want to treat the symptoms and leave the disease unknown.

My vote is a new used motor.

Get a new one in and drive it.
Sell the "FB" motor to someone that can/will tear it down and rebuild it.

[Rustic]

I also have a complete motor from a low mileage wrecked car has 35k on it.
feel free to PM me regarding the engine Thanks

[Rustic]

My vote is a new used motor.

Get a new one in and drive it.
Sell the "FB" motor to someone that can/will tear it down and rebuild it.
Anyone on the forum know folks that are rebuilding these engines?

[Zmey]

Throw a 2.7t in it. ;) j/k. Good luck

[Avus-RS6]

Anyone on the forum know folks that are rebuilding these engines?

Wow, sorry to hear of your troubles.

AMD in Woodinville would know about rebuilding these engines, they swapped heads on mine (actually short blocks on existing heads, same thing) and have a built RS6 engine in the shop now.

[alrightroad]

Throw a 2.7t in it. ;) j/k. Good luck

... or a built AAN :hahahehe:

[alrightroad]

I would just like to point out that Ben is showing his snooty, high-end euro car attitude... "multi level parking structures" WTF. The common man calls it a deck. :)

[alrightroad]

I'll be serious now... Rustic, sounds like engine should be swapped. Given all the comments above and the physical damage you saw that is the safe bet (proactively). I get tensioner or chain chatter a little under full boost with tuned ECU but have never heard it riding around under full boost with stock ECU. Never hear the chatter at low speeds where oil pressure is low. I think these motors can be oil starved at high or low rpm's... all depends on age, wear and oil type. Did you check your oil pump pick up screen to be sure no holes indicating objects being force upwards somehow? Bottom line is you could drive it like this for another 80K miles, who knows. Being proactive with it is best, as we all know.

I'd be interested in buying your existing motor if/when you make the swap. I'm in no rush but I am looking for one to build. Shipping might be rough... I am opposite to you, in SC.

-eric

[NSU RS6]

OK, THIS in bold, I had that sound at day one of ownership (I was a 2nd owner of a 36k mile Fastest Colored RS6).

You see, Mugello Blue cavitates the air at +20mph, thereby creating a slipstream that makes it go faster than any other color. So I have heard. I haven't been able to detect any cavitational boost with my Daytona Grey, but she is plenty fast enough for me.


I would drive in multi level parking structures and could hear the clickety clack as soon as I would press on throttle and I never had a code for

After sitting a few days, I get some valve clatter at startup. Like the 94 S4 I had before this car. Like the 4000CSQ I had before that. Like the 4000 5+5 I had before that. These cars like to be ridden hard and put away wet (within reason). Valve clatter to me is just a snore before the morning hookup.

[hahnmgh63]

After my car sits a few weeks I get a touch of clatter for a few seconds but I don't think it's the Lifters (it might be), but I think it's the cam tensioners (maybe not?).

[Rustic]

After my car sits a few weeks I get a touch of clatter for a few seconds but I don't think it's the Lifters (it might be), but I think it's the cam tensioners (maybe not?).
This was no clatter on startup but only a bit of clatter when hot and at low revs. I'm thinking that the new/old engine is the way to go in the end.

[DHall1]

I just sent you a text w a lead on a engine in WA.

[Avus-RS6]

Rustic, saw your car at the shop. I haven't seen a 4.2tt engine with auto trans attached, out of the car, for some time. Man, that lump is huge! Anyway, what's the plan? Going to clean it up and run it or replace the block?

[Rustic]

Rustic, saw your car at the shop. I haven't seen a 4.2tt engine with auto trans attached, out of the car, for some time. Man, that lump is huge! Anyway, what's the plan? Going to clean it up and run it or replace the block?

I now have two engines there. I am going to put in the "new one" and sell off the rest of the old one including the trans/turbos/pretty much any part of a complete engine. so if you know of anyone needing bits and pieces.....

[Avus-RS6]

Dang! You doing the 6mt while you're in there?

[Rustic]

Dang! You doing the 6mt while you're in there?
No. Thought about, in fact I had always thought that when my trans gave out I would do it. But the traffic around here and the only modest reviews of the driving experience (chatter etc.) not to mention how many of them seem to get sold so quickly after the mod, just makes me too weary and wary to go that way. I prefer driving a stick but just wasn't keen enough on it to take the plunge.

[lswing]

No. Thought about, in fact I had always thought that when my trans gave out I would do it. But the traffic around here and the only modest reviews of the driving experience (chatter etc.) not to mention how many of them seem to get sold so quickly after the mod, just makes me too weary and wary to go that way. I prefer driving a stick but just wasn't keen enough on it to take the plunge.

100%....love me an auto box.

[Avus-RS6]

Saw Jason welding your IC's today and Donny wrapping up the engine install... almost together!

[lswing]

Would be interested to know parts and labor cost totals, ~$10k? Glad to see it's almost there!

[Rustic]

Saw Jason welding your IC's today and Donny wrapping up the engine install... almost together! I just went over today and it looks like he is taking good care of it all. He said he would probably have it on the road by end of day and finish tweaking next week. His rebuilt ICs sure looked nice and he seems to be really paint attention to the details. I'm looking forward to putting my son's Jetta away.