RS6 repair battle between Audi dealer and Fidelity Warranty

[FithianRS6]

This is my first post. I purchased a 2003 RS6 from a member last August. It came with a Fidelity warranty but I extended the warranty further. Love the car. AC went out. I took it to Fort Worth Audi and they diagnosed the issue as an AC compressor. Fidelity came and inspected the car and approved the replacement. When the dealer tried to remove the compressor, they damaged two supply lines. They claim they are steel lines that screw into aluminum. Over the years, they connection was welded together and they could not remove it without breaking the connection. Then they realized that all of the lines were the same way and they would all be broken when removed. Their solution: remove the engine, install new lines from the compressor to all of the other connections throughout. Cost estimated in excess of $8,000 not counting the original AC compressor. Fidelity refused to pay, other than the original compressor replacement. Fidelity took pictures prior to the dealer removing the lines and Fidelity is taking the position that the dealer damaged the lines. The dealer claims no one could have removed the lines as they were "welded" together. My car sits at the dealer, torn down and inoperable with the dealer expecting me to pay the $8,000 plus. I have asked for a supervisor at Fidelity with the same result, extra work is not covered.

Has anyone else faced a similar issue with these AC lines? Any advise on a course of action?

Steve F, Happy RS6 owner but frustrated

[Bigglezworth]

Break out the Vasoline.... Seriously. This is #@$%'ed. There is no way a pair of seized AC lines requires the $$$ you are talking about - even with the hours spent dropping a power plant. Many here certain to chime in on the rotorooting.

[papadoc]

Please expose the dealer here. There is no way that dropping the engine and replacing a few lines would cost that much. If you did not authorize that work and sign for it, you are not obligated to pay. If you did, Vasoline time. And if you have an attorney friend, get them involved. Next step, find a good independent shop in your area. I hate hearing stories like this...

[DHall1]

This is not typical for ac lines.

You could be getting the shaft on this one...i would request tobe present when the tech breaks loose the next fitting. They could be stripping them first.

[lswing]

Ask for proof of said lines being "welded". Maybe they were leaking and a previous owner welded them up? That would suck. Maybe Fidelity missed it on their inspection, but if they did that's their problem right?

A engine pull and replace (just labor) with an indy mech at $75 per hour with fluids and other misc. can easily be $3000. So put the stealer at $125 per hour would be around $5,000. Please provide a price breakdown for us here, sounds like they are adding some extra costs in.

[Other_Erik]

Dealer f'ed up and they know it. Without your signature/approval, or that of Fidelity, they are going to be out the labor they've put in so far.

They decided to do the motor pull and all this other work that they had not foreseen. They are required by law to get approval in advance to perform any labor and to keep the old parts for the owners' inspection.

Tell the dealer that you'll have a flatbed there to pick up the vehicle and take it to an indy shop to finish what they're not willing to do, and that they can expect a bill to perform the engine re-install if the vehicle is not back in running condition when the flatbed picks it up. That should light a fire under the ass of the service manager :)

Be sure to let them know that you're relating your experience with them to the largest RS6 owners' community in the US, and that you'll also be reporting their shenanigans to AoA corporate via the Flagship Desk (866) 892-2834

You'll be made whole one way or another...

O_E

[SteveKen]

I personally replaced all my A/C lines as part of the conversion from the S6 to the RS6. The engine did not have to be removed at all. So that's total BS.

There are only two lines going to the compressor: One from the drier, which is right behind the passenger side headlight and the other is a short one that goes to the driver's side of the condenser.

The A/C compressor is aluminum and the lines are aluminum. If the connections are stuck, then you can free them up using the necessary chemicals and due diligence.

My guess is that a neanderthal technician jacked up a lot of stuff by not being careful.

[lswing]

^^^You guys are good, so much win, great information, hope it works out for the OP, it will take some time, hang in there!

[LIRS6]

Be sure to let them know that you're relating your experience with them to the largest RS6 owners' community in the US, and that you'll also be reporting their shenanigans to AoA corporate via the Flagship Desk (866) 892-2834

You'll be made whole one way or another...

O_E

AoA corporate doesn't give a sh*t about what their dealers charge/how they handle repairs - I know first hand

[lswing]

AoA corporate doesn't give a sh*t about what their dealers charge/how they handle repairs - I know first hand

I did get them to replace a faulty steering rack, but they wouldn't cover labor from my independent mechanic. Was a fight for sure, I had to take many steps to show them it was impossible for my mechanic to have broke the rack (interior seals leaking). They wanted to do no coverage at all initially because it wasn't at an Audio dealership.

[ben916]

AoA corporate doesn't give a sh*t about what their dealers charge/how they handle repairs - I know first hand

In my experience, this is 1/2 true unless you are dealing with the Flagship desk:

I got strong armed into a $500 service I wasn't prepared to take on at the time but they used the "safety" word on me.
I paid for the service at that time.
Then AoA calls me and asks me how things went with the service as I didn't give favorable marks.
They transfer me to the flagship desk and I retold my experience.
The agent then asks me "what can we do to resolve this issue so that both parties come to an amicable agreement?"
I said without blinking "Send me my $500 back or some sort of credit".
The agent said "Is $500 enough to cover it?" almost like she thought I should be asking for more.
I said "yes as that is fair enough"

I used the $500 on the DRC recharge and I go to check out and they have no idea about it.
Call to AoA flag ship desk and using the VIN = all is covered except $50

[LIRS6]

Wish I could say same ... but my experiences are far different

[kvicen]

This is my previous car. FithianRS6 called me this week and told me about this dilemma he is having with Fort Worth Audi. I think it's a bunch of bull what they are saying. The AC lines aren't welded together. I just clarified this with FithianRS6. They are stuck and hard to remove due to age. I would think that it is a mechanics responsibility to use whatever anti seize lubricants that he has at his disposal instead of forcing and breaking the lines like they did. Im sure this isn't the first time that they have run into this. All work stopped when the line broke so the dealer hasn't pulled the engine. I think its very excessive that they want to replace everything even though the other lines aren't broken. He was also having the 75k mile service done at the same time.

[Ms_RS6]

If he didn't sign off again, he does not need to pay. Who in Ft. Worth Audi are you dealing with?

[FithianRS6]

I am dealing with Kyle Jackson. I have an appointment with him tomorrow. We (Kyle, the mechanic and myself) are going to get on the phone together and call Fidelity. And I am going to look at the car and take my own pictures. I have not actually seen the car since they tried to remove the AC compressor and ruined the lines.

[Korben007]

Having just done similar maintenance I don't see how you have to remove engine for ac lines?

[Bigglezworth]

Having just done similar maintenance I don't see how you have to remove engine for ac lines?You don't. That's why anyone in the know can well speak to the a$$ rape being presented by the Stealership...

[marklar182]

my $.02;

Dont take an RS6 to a dealer unless they have an RS6 Certified Tech. I would stick to DFW Audi and Audi Dallas.

75K service at the dealer! OUCH!

Next time save yourself some hassle and call Zink Autohaus in Grand Prairie.

[FithianRS6]

The following is a result of my meeting on Friday with Fort Worth Audi.
To replace the AC compressor, you must remove the front clip and lock carrier to access the compressor. To accomplish this, you must remove the oil cooler, transmission cooler, etc. for a total of six coolers. The lines to these coolers are steel braided but they go into aluminum threads on the coolers. When removing the oil cooler, hand tools are used due to the tight quarters. There are no signs of rust or other corrosive materials but they could not untighten the connection without the threads coming out…the steel and aluminum had bound together. After ruining both connections to the oil cooler, FW Audi stopped and assumed that they would have the same issue with all of the other coolers.
The other end of the cooler lines goes to the back of the engine and other points. They are assuming that when they remove the balance of the lines, they will all be ruined which would require replacing each cooler and removing the engine to connect the other side of the cooler lines to the back of the engine.
Kyle Jackson, the service manager and his boss, Carlos Fonseca, and I called Fidelity once again on Friday. We received the same result as before…Fidelity will cover the original AC compressor replacement but they will not cover any resulting damage regardless of whether it is impossible to remove the connections without stripping them. We then requested a supervisor and received the same response. The service manager and his supervisor requested the next line of decision making. Fidelity referred us to Brad Coniff (spelling?) who is the Dealer Rep for Fidelity.
We called Brad and FW Audi made their case. “They sell these warranties to their customers assuming that Fidelity will cover what they claim to cover in the warranty. If they will not cover issues like this, they will start telling their customers that the warranty company does not stand behind their repairs. They offered to have Fidelity come out and observe removal of the next cooler and show how they are bonded together and they did not force or use power tools to remove and destroy the threads.” Brad, the Dealer rep, asked if there was rust or evidence that the car had been driven in the North or Northeast. FW Audi said there was no evidence of rust or corrosion; the car was very clean; and no evidence that it had been driven in the north. Brad said he would have to talk to upper management in Florida and he would have a decision on Monday.
The front of the car is torn down exposing the front coolers. I took sever pictures of the front and the connections.

[FithianRS6]

The following is a result of my meeting on Friday with Fort Worth Audi.

To replace the AC compressor, you must remove the front clip and lock carrier to access the compressor. To accomplish this, you must remove the oil cooler, transmission cooler, etc. for a total of six coolers. The lines to these coolers are steel braided but they go into aluminum threads on the coolers. When removing the oil cooler, hand tools are used due to the tight quarters. There are no signs of rust or other corrosive materials but they could not untighten the connection without the threads coming out…the steel and aluminum had bound together. After ruining both connections to the oil cooler, FW Audi stopped and assumed that they would have the same issue with all of the other coolers.

The other end of the cooler lines goes to the back of the engine and other points. They are assuming that when they remove the balance of the lines, they will all be ruined which would require replacing each cooler and removing the engine to connect the other side of the cooler lines to the back of the engine.
Kyle Jackson, the service manager and his boss, Carlos Fonseca, and I called Fidelity once again on Friday. We received the same result as before…Fidelity will cover the original AC compressor replacement but they will not cover any resulting damage regardless of whether it is impossible to remove the connections without stripping them. We then requested a supervisor and received the same response. The service manager and his supervisor requested the next line of decision making. Fidelity referred us to Brad Coniff (spelling?) who is the Dealer Rep for Fidelity.

We called Brad and FW Audi made their case. “They sell these warranties to their customers assuming that Fidelity will cover what they claim to cover in the warranty. If they will not cover issues like this, they will start telling their customers that the warranty company does not stand behind their repairs. They offered to have Fidelity come out and observe removal of the next cooler and show how they are bonded together and they did not force or use power tools to remove and destroy the threads.” Brad, the Dealer rep, asked if there was rust or evidence that the car had been driven in the North or Northeast. FW Audi said there was no evidence of rust or corrosion; the car was very clean; and no evidence that it had been driven in the north. Brad said he would have to talk to upper management in Florida and he would have a decision on Monday.

The front of the car is torn down exposing the front coolers. I took sever pictures of the front and the connections.

[FithianRS6]

The following is a result of my meeting on Friday with Fort Worth Audi.
To replace the AC compressor, you must remove the front clip and lock carrier to access the compressor. To accomplish this, you must remove the oil cooler, transmission cooler, etc. for a total of six coolers. The lines to these coolers are steel braided but they go into aluminum threads on the coolers. When removing the oil cooler, hand tools are used due to the tight quarters. There are no signs of rust or other corrosive materials but they could not untighten the connection without the threads coming out…the steel and aluminum had bound together. After ruining both connections to the oil cooler, FW Audi stopped and assumed that they would have the same issue with all of the other coolers.
The other end of the cooler lines goes to the back of the engine and other points. They are assuming that when they remove the balance of the lines, they will all be ruined which would require replacing each cooler and removing the engine to connect the other side of the cooler lines to the back of the engine.
Kyle Jackson, the service manager and his boss, Carlos Fonseca, and I called Fidelity once again on Friday. We received the same result as before…Fidelity will cover the original AC compressor replacement but they will not cover any resulting damage regardless of whether it is impossible to remove the connections without stripping them. We then requested a supervisor and received the same response. The service manager and his supervisor requested the next line of decision making. Fidelity referred us to Brad Coniff (spelling?) who is the Dealer Rep for Fidelity.
We called Brad and FW Audi made their case. “They sell these warranties to their customers assuming that Fidelity will cover what they claim to cover in the warranty. If they will not cover issues like this, they will start telling their customers that the warranty company does not stand behind their repairs. They offered to have Fidelity come out and observe removal of the next cooler and show how they are bonded together and they did not force or use power tools to remove and destroy the threads.” Brad, the Dealer rep, asked if there was rust or evidence that the car had been driven in the North or Northeast. FW Audi said there was no evidence of rust or corrosion; the car was very clean; and no evidence that it had been driven in the north. Brad said he would have to talk to upper management in Florida and he would have a decision on Monday.
The front of the car is torn down exposing the front coolers. I took sever pictures of the front and the connections.

[Bigglezworth]

To replace the AC compressor, you must remove the front clip and lock carrier to access the compressor. To accomplish this, you must remove the oil cooler, transmission cooler, etc. for a total of six coolers.Yes & no. You can place the front clip in 'service position' and remove the AC compressor without having to remove and drain all the auxilary coolers. The radiator gets drained to get the clip in to service position, and you would obviously already be disconnecting the condensor for the AC. That leaves just the power steering cooler and the shared oil/tranny cooler.


The lines to these coolers are steel braided but they go into aluminum threads on the coolers. When removing the oil cooler, hand tools are used due to the tight quarters. There are no signs of rust or other corrosive materials but they could not untighten the connection without the threads coming out…the steel and aluminum had bound together. After ruining both connections to the oil cooler, FW Audi stopped and assumed that they would have the same issue with all of the other coolers.This might in fact be plausible, but note depending on the damage you can in fact repair the connection. I had one of the lines strip out on my oil/tranny cooler and was able to repair the coupler with an threaded connection that still caught the remaining threads on the cooler that didn't strip out.

153891538815390

In order to ensure you don't strip out the lines to the coolers, you can look to decouple the coolers at the other end of the lines (all accessible from below the engine) and remove the cooler in it's entirety with all hoses still in tact.

Irrespective of what you've outlined, there is nothing that would necessitate an engine removal to perform repair work. It's disconcerting to hear that was the only solution being provided to you as it suggests the service department isn't in the know. Hell, a number of guys on this board who are backyard wrenchers well know the pile of crap they are shovelling your way. I hope you get a reasonable solution in short order.

[DHall1]

Actually thinking back to my fidelity engine replacement.....after winning the big fight they also covered all the associated components while replacing the engine.

That said you could leave most of the cooler fittings in place and just move the lock carrier enough to reach the compressor.

I call rape the RS6 owner on this whole situation