Where to get non drilled rotors?

[4everRS]

I don't need these for a while, but while I was thinking about it I thought I would bring it up.

I've been very impressed with the frozen rotors treatment I have in my rotors. I'm less impressed with the drilled holes. I did my 2nd track day of the year today and the holes fill up with pad material, and are generally worthless. This also makes them wear goofy.

So I would like a set of blanks. No holes. I would have frozen do their cryo treatment, but they will also drill, slot, ect if you want. I would have them slotted. I don't need them for quite a while yet, but I'm interested in where to source them when I do.

Does anyone have the past numbers?

[Bigglezworth]

Go to your locak VW dealer and purchase rotors from a Phaeton. Same fit, but without the holes.

[4everRS]

Huh. Are they designed like ours with the aluminum hats?

[hahnmgh63]

1. front cross drilled rotor
4B3 615 301 E
4B3 615 302 A

front non cross drilled rotor
4B3 615 301 B
4B3 615 302

rear cross drilled rotor
4B3 615 601 C
4B3 615 602 A

rear non cross drilled rotor
4B3 615 601 B
4B3 615 602

front pads
4B3 698 151 A

rear pads
4B3 698 451

3D0 615 301 N Phaeton 365x34 front disc

4E0 615 601 L Phaeton rear disc

[4everRS]

So the past numbers under each rotor are right and left sides right?

[G2]

The drilled holes are doing their job. Sounds like the brake pads aren't, so well....admittedly the holes in these rotors are quite small.

[Bigglezworth]

Huh. Are they designed like ours with the aluminum hats?Yes. Just not drilled.

[4everRS]

Yes. Just not drilled.you wouldn't happen to have a part number would you?

[4everRS]

Tim,

I can't seem to verify that the US phaetons got the 8 pot calipers. When I search some random parts sites I come up with this stuff:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Phaeton-4_Motion-W12/Braking/Rotors/ES1831908/

I

[repda503]

rear non cross drilled rotor:
4B3 615 602

This right side rotor is currently discounted to $99 on vwparts.com if that helps with your decision.

[4everRS]

rear non cross drilled rotor:
4B3 615 602

This right side rotor is currently discounted to $99 on vwparts.com if that helps with your decision.

This is for the phaeton I assume? Looks like you need to sign up to have access to that site.

[hahnmgh63]

Here is the two piece Phaeton rotor. It has an aluminum hat but isn't the SHW design.
http://www.oemplus.com/floating-brake-rotors-phaeton-w12-p-985.html

[repda503]

This is for the phaeton I assume? Looks like you need to sign up to have access to that site.
I never signed up for anything. Just go to the site and click on the outlet center tab. Then search for rs6 parts. or you can just get it from ECS at below link:
http://www.ecstuning.com/ES372060/

[lswing]

The drilled holes are doing their job. Sounds like the brake pads aren't, so well....admittedly the holes in these rotors are quite small.

Yep, thought that's what I've read for the purpose of holes. They catch loose pad debris, keep pads even? The fins between each side of the rotor are largely responsible for cooling.

Edit; Just go around rotors with thin wire and pop debris out after runs?

I'm still tempted by the JHM's, slotted for more debris catching and bigger fins for cooling. We've talked about these warping for some, but never much specific info? Rarely do we press our cars that much.

Edit 2; who has frozen treated the JHM's? That might be the trick...

http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/front-rotorspair-jhm-piece-lightweight-for-c5-rs6-p-485.html

(http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/front-rotorspair-jhm-piece-lightweight-for-c5-rs6-p-485.html)

[alrightroad]

Yeah, I'm curious about the JHM ones and who has seen true warping on these rings.

[audiprotn]

1. front cross drilled rotor
rear non cross drilled rotor
4B3 615 601 B
4B3 615 602

4E0 615 601 L Phaeton rear disc
Has anyone fitted these rotors?

My pads are worn out and started " eating" my rotors, thinking about going with these http://www.ecstuning.com/ES372060/

Thanks

[G2]

Yep, thought that's what I've read for the purpose of holes. They catch loose pad debris, keep pads even? The fins between each side of the rotor are largely responsible for cooling.

Edit; Just go around rotors with thin wire and pop debris out after runs?

I'm still tempted by the JHM's, slotted for more debris catching and bigger fins for cooling. We've talked about these warping for some, but never much specific info? Rarely do we press our cars that much.

Edit 2; who has frozen treated the JHM's? That might be the trick...

http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/front-rotorspair-jhm-piece-lightweight-for-c5-rs6-p-485.html

(http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/front-rotorspair-jhm-piece-lightweight-for-c5-rs6-p-485.html)

I notice on Porsches that the holes are bigger with more of them. And don't tend to plug up. But yes, the junk can be blow or poked out. I've done it a few times so far. Annoying...

Warped rotors do happen. But I think the pad is largely responsible. Personal experience, even from street driving.

[G2]

-- the JHM rotors make me wonder.

Rotor Weight: Stock = 27.5lbs(each), JHM = 21lbs(each) - 24% LIGHTER, 6.5lbs less each
-Rotor Cooling Air-gap: Stock = 13mm(.512"), JHM = 18.5mm(.728") - LARGER for better cooling
-Rotor Cooling Center Fin Design: Stock = Straight Fin, JHM = Airfoil - MORE EFFICIENT for better cooling

The Techy car guy, tech, mech, ex-engineer puts on this thinking cap:

1. Lighter? So less thermal mass is good for these cars? hmmm . Bet the rotors get hotter faster. Might even effect what pads are needed.

2. Less vanes is better? Would that idea work well on a radiator for example? No...

3. The OE design is directional. With curved vanes to expel hot air.

3a. Did they brake dyno test those rotors to see how they hold up compared to OE. (see youtube if needed)

Those fasteners look like the bolts used to hold brakes on a mountainbike (i question the grade, but maybe it was just for the photo?)

Not tearing them "apart" but just some basic thoughts here. I'm sure they work great. We all use these cars differently and our MPG may vary :revs:

Cryogenic treatment seems almost needed on these cars. Any input anyone on who can do it on the west coast?

I better go fix some cars now!

[Bigglezworth]

I notice on Porsches that the holes are bigger with more of them. And don't tend to plug up. But yes, the junk can be blow or poked out. I've done it a few times so far. Annoying...

Warped rotors do happen. But I think the pad is largely responsible. Personal experience, even from street driving.Living in a part of the world with salt, snow, rain, slush, etc., I experience build-up of rust/pad debris inside the holes all the time. I have needed to use a drill to remove it all as it becomes so rigid. As for warping, it's a misconception that rotors warp. As a general rule, the pulsing sensation you get on a pedal is in fact the pads grabbing with different force where there is a different 'bedding' of pad material that has transfered to the rotor. Introduce water/rusting/sitting, and this becomes more prominent. Warping of rotors really only occurs when you heat up rotors and don't permit them an opportunity to ventilate (i.e. doing a bunch of hot laps, entering the pits, and then pulling your parking brake....).

[ben916]

Cryogenic treatment seems almost needed on these cars. Any input anyone on who can do it on the west coast?


Frozen Rotors in MN or WI.

Plan it out though:
If you purchase thru "Miramar" Audi (can't remember their online name), see if you can save on the shipping so they are direct shipped to Frozen.
If you purchase OEM and ship them yourself, it was $60 each way from 91915 (ADD INSURANCE!!!! kinda hard to lose 52lb of rotors but "S" happens).
The rotors needed to be onsite before Thursday, so they can get their weekend batch of items to freeze all organized.
They dip/undip the items to be frozen for 60 hours (all weekend).
Then ship out on either that Monday or Tuesday.

The color is slightly more blue upon return.

IIRC, total time was 2 weeks round trip to get it set up and about $200

Or just purchase Frozen Rotors from Frozen Rotors...

[hahnmgh63]

It's easy to clean the holes on the outside of the rotors but the holed on the inside (inside half of the vented portion) don't match up with the outer holes. You have to get at these from the inside and if you have the stock backing plates they are in the way. With the Phaeton cooling ducts upgrade you can remove the ducts and clean the inside holes.

[G2]

Living in a part of the world with salt, snow, rain, slush, etc., I experience build-up of rust/pad debris inside the holes all the time. I have needed to use a drill to remove it all as it becomes so rigid. As for warping, it's a misconception that rotors warp. As a general rule, the pulsing sensation you get on a pedal is in fact the pads grabbing with different force where there is a different 'bedding' of pad material that has transfered to the rotor. Introduce water/rusting/sitting, and this becomes more prominent. Warping of rotors really only occurs when you heat up rotors and don't permit them an opportunity to ventilate (i.e. doing a bunch of hot laps, entering the pits, and then pulling your parking brake....).

I"ve also drilled my drilled rotors out to unplug them. Egads.
-- maybe I'll have them drilled larger......hmmmm

I agree about the pad transfer issue that can mimic "warped rotor syndrome". But as a GR (General Rule), also based on experience (thousands of brake rotors kinda experience), rotors due indeed warp. Ammco answered that call at least 40+ years ago with their industry standard brake lathe. I've spent far too many hours manning one of these relics-- and wished I could afford one (great for drum brakes too).

Like mentioned, if the brakes are overheated, it will warp. I rinsed off my favorite hot griddle in cold water and the dang thing twisted about 1/4" inch. Same deal with brakes.

For anyone that's used a lathe, will notice that each face of the rotor has it's own surface variance. The carbide blade/tip will contact the high spot. These areas are clocked differently-- one might be High at 9am, while the other side might be High at 3pm (okay, 4:20Pm for some!). A new rotor is typically made within 0.001" parallel. Most max specs are 0.002" before calling for machining/turning of the rotor face. Hence, the rotors will grab the high spots and cause pulsations. Once removed, after machining, the brakes are again smooth. Take a good pair of mics and measure before and after a rotor is machined. It's surprising. This is the main reason why 2 pc. rotors are made (there is a 2nd and 3rd reason).

In the last 10yrs I've argued against another "culprit" that can supposedly cause a similar issue: worn wheel bearings. Another topic full of holes. The brake rotor OEM's like to blame your poor worn out bearings for causing the problem. Also by-and-large Not True. I can point fingers but.....won't....for now.

[G2]

Frozen Rotors in MN or WI.

Plan it out though:
If you purchase thru "Miramar" Audi (can't remember their online name), see if you can save on the shipping so they are direct shipped to Frozen.
If you purchase OEM and ship them yourself, it was $60 each way from 91915 (ADD INSURANCE!!!! kinda hard to lose 52lb of rotors but "S" happens).
The rotors needed to be onsite before Thursday, so they can get their weekend batch of items to freeze all organized.
They dip/undip the items to be frozen for 60 hours (all weekend).
Then ship out on either that Monday or Tuesday.

The color is slightly more blue upon return.

IIRC, total time was 2 weeks round trip to get it set up and about $200

Or just purchase Frozen Rotors from Frozen Rotors...

Thanks for all the info Ben.

I buy direct with my wholesale account thru the largest Euro parts importers in North America. I also have wholesale shipping.
Totally agreed about Superman Shipping problems. "S", right?.

Hope i can find someone west-side to do the treatment. Planning on a trackday and don't wan to trash the new OEM rotors and race pads.
== BTW, NA AudiClub is renting out PIR raceway (Portland OR) November 11/1-2. Hope to at least make that....anyone here a member?

[4everRS]

Thanks for all the info Ben.

I buy direct with my wholesale account thru the largest Euro parts importers in North America. I also have wholesale shipping.


So what is the price you get rotors for?

[G2]

So what is the price you get rotors for?

Guess the notifications aren't coming in, sorry. Last I checked it was right about $750 for the front OEM pair. Zimmerman replica's are a bit less.

[audiprotn]

Update:
Received 4B3 615 602 rotors. Fit perfectly. $75 each.

[4everRS]

Update:
Received 4B3 615 602 rotors. Fit perfectly. $75 each.

Are these rotors directional?

Where did you order from?

[hahnmgh63]

The Catalog shows a different left & right part number, even for the non-drilled rotors. Are you using two right side rotors on the rear? They are directional. Left side is 4B3615601B.

[audiprotn]

For example, http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/products/Audi/2003/Rotor--Brake-Ventilated-VENTILATED-DISC-BRAKE-ROTER-ROTER/5483100/4B3615602.html does not say anything about being different for each side.
I got it from http://www.vwpartsdept.com/OEMParts/volkswagen-157/4/4B3615602.html
They originally sent two wrong rotors, but after I called them they were nice enough to overnight them.

I dont think these are directional.

[audiprotn]

4B3615601B
This is what they sent me originally, part number was 4B3615601 ( without B), rotors were about 265mm in diameter

[hahnmgh63]

Do the Rotors you are using have an arrow on the outside showing rotational direction?

[audiprotn]

Honestly I did not pay attention, did not even cross my mind. But one of them almost fell on my foot, and I don't remember seeing any arrows.

[4everRS]

For example, http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/products/Audi/2003/Rotor--Brake-Ventilated-VENTILATED-DISC-BRAKE-ROTER-ROTER/5483100/4B3615602.html does not say anything about being different for each side.
I got it from http://www.vwpartsdept.com/OEMParts/volkswagen-157/4/4B3615602.html
They originally sent two wrong rotors, but after I called them they were nice enough to overnight them.

I dont think these are directional.

The first link from Jim Ellis audi says it's for the right.

You bought 2 rh rotors. The question is, does it matter?

[audiprotn]

The first link from Jim Ellis audi says it's for the right.

You bought 2 rh rotors. The question is, does it matter?
Hm, Interesting haha, part guy at the store did measure them prior to shipping out and did not say anything about them being different, especially after they sent me the wrong ones at first.
Also mechanic I used did not say a word.

[4everRS]

Hm, Interesting haha, part guy at the store did measure them prior to shipping out and did not say anything about them being different, especially after they sent me the wrong ones at first.
Also mechanic I used did not say a word.

Would you be willing to take a look to see if there are directional arrows on these rotors? The arrows would be on the aluminum hat. You may need a flashlight to look through the wheel spokes.

[audiprotn]

Would you be willing to take a look to see if there are directional arrows on these rotors? The arrows would be on the aluminum hat. You may need a flashlight to look through the wheel spokes.
Just did, they are indeed directional.
Now it makes me wonder if it's that critical, brakes feel just fine.
I understand the difference if they were let's say slotted or drilled, but since they are "plain", they look identical.

[lswing]

So why is that one rotor type is $75, and all others $429, odd....

http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/productSearch.aspx?&ukey_make=1081&modelYear=2003&ukey_model=15642&ukey_trimLevel=19009&ukey_driveline=00&ukey_Category=21741&numResults=50&sortOrder=Relevance&isOnSale=0&isAccessory=0&isPerformance=0&searchTerm=rotor

[SteveKen]

Maybe the same reason the left aluminum mirror cap is $100 and the right is $900?

Supply vs. Demand?

[Other_Erik]

Just did, they are indeed directional.
Now it makes me wonder if it's that critical, brakes feel just fine.
I understand the difference if they were let's say slotted or drilled, but since they are "plain", they look identical.

directionality of rotors only matter if they're slotted/dimpled/drilled, or if they have a directional fin design. Next time you have a rear wheel off, take a flashlight and shine it into the rotor from the outside edge towards the center. If you can see all the way down, the fins are straight and you're fine. If you see the fins curving off (directional design), then the directionality is going to push air inward towards your rotor hat (wheel hub, bearing, etc area) rather than outward towards the wheel itself. Not saying that all that heat will mess up the hub, but I'm also not saying that it won't...

See image for left/right comparo
http://www.zeckhausen.com/images/Rotors/how_to2.jpg

[lswing]

So I should just buy a set of these rear rotors while they're still dirt cheap? Send off to Frozen? I would still worry they might be made cheaper if they are so cheap. Hmmmm....can't you have the slots carved in also?

[audiprotn]

directionality of rotors only matter if they're slotted/dimpled/drilled, or if they have a directional fin design. Next time you have a rear wheel off, take a flashlight and shine it into the rotor from the outside edge towards the center. If you can see all the way down, the fins are straight and you're fine. If you see the fins curving off (directional design), then the directionality is going to push air inward towards your rotor hat (wheel hub, bearing, etc area) rather than outward towards the wheel itself. Not saying that all that heat will mess up the hub, but I'm also not saying that it won't...

See image for left/right comparo
http://www.zeckhausen.com/images/Rotors/how_to2.jpg
Thanks for the info

[audiprotn]

As for front, might go with these guys http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151034798356?lpid=82

[marklar182]

As for front, might go with these guys http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151034798356?lpid=82

Not even the same size as RS6 rotors.

[lswing]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

[audiprotn]

Hahah
Well messed up on the last letter, was gonna confirm first.
Anyhow, there should be something like i got for the rears.

Anyone heard of this company? http://www.huilibrakes.com/?m=about

[hahnmgh63]

Cheap Chinese Shit??? Really. The RS6 isn't over braked for it's weight already, I can't imagine downgrading the Brakes? For the price of the SHW or Zimmerman OEM design rotors it isn't that expensive if your talking 30~40K on a set.

[audiprotn]

Cheap Chinese Shit??? Really. The RS6 isn't over braked for it's weight already, I can't imagine downgrading the Brakes? For the price of the SHW or Zimmerman OEM design rotors it isn't that expensive if your talking 30~40K on a set.

Chinese does not always mean cheap, but Im not trying to change the topic...
nobody said anything about cheap/expensive. At least i would like to know alternatives to oem drilled ones :incar:

[lswing]

Chinese does not always mean cheap, but Im not trying to change the topic...
nobody said anything about cheap/expensive. At least i would like to know alternatives to oem drilled ones :incar:

Yea, i don't get this. Trying to find the cheapest alternative to one of the most important safety features makes little sense...makes cents, but could put you in a bad spot.

[audiprotn]

Yea, i don't get this. Trying to find the cheapest alternative to one of the most important safety features makes little sense...makes cents, but could put you in a bad spot.
Title of the thread: where to get non drilled rotors".

Who is saying anything about cheaping out on brakes? Just because it's not oem does not mean it's any worse.

p.s. Pls get back on topic

[lswing]

Title of the thread: where to get non drilled rotors".

Who is saying anything about cheaping out on brakes? Just because it's not oem does not mean it's any worse.

p.s. Pls get back on topic

Funny, thought the title was "where to get cheap unproven rotors", I stand corrected.

This is right on topic. Suggesting cheap parts that don't even fit is hazardous. I mainly worry that someone will browse this later and think it's ok to order.

I do applaud your efforts searching, and those rear rotors look interesting.

[audiprotn]

Funny, thought the title was "where to get cheap unproven rotors", I stand corrected.

This is right on topic. Suggesting cheap parts that don't even fit is hazardous. I mainly worry that someone will browse this later and think it's ok to order.

I do applaud your efforts searching, and those rear rotors look interesting.
Show me where I suggested anything hazardous besides one link from eBay where rotors were for passat ( still oem that would not even fit).
P.s. This thread is still about non drilled rotors

[lswing]

One thing I found interesting looking at Frozen rotors, they didn't have the RS6 version in slotted for some reason. Maybe they can only get them drilled, such as OEM or Zimmerman. Maybe I'll give them a call next week. Costs a bit more, but this would be rock solid for a lot of miles...

http://www.frozenrotors.com/

[lswing]

Probably put these on next time they have a 10% off sale. Send them up to Frozen. Should be good, and with my limited to no track time not anticipating any warping issues. Slots should clear a lot more brake debris and gases. Running the Hawk HPS street pads which seem to be easy on the rotors with solid braking ability once warmed up.

http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/front-rotorspair-jhm-piece-lightweight-for-c5-rs6-p-485.html

[alrightroad]

Whats the deal with Frozen? Are they selling the OEM drilled rotors already treated then? Looks like it from reading their website but I am surprise.

[lswing]

Whats the deal with Frozen? Are they selling the OEM drilled rotors already treated then? Looks like it from reading their website but I am surprise.

Seems to be, they just have them shipped directly over, easier for everyone. I was wondering if truly OEM, or Zimmers...

[alrightroad]

...OEM, or Zimmers...

Exactly.