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View Full Version : First 15K mi oil/maintenance in US: Lotsa news



JAXRS6
January 24th, 2004, 08:42
The good news is, my beast is back after four weeks at the dealer! Asst service mgr said when I picked it up Friday that when they checked to see what hours to assign for the oil change and maintenance portion, there was no record of a 15K mi oil/maintenance yet in the US -- which meant mine must be the first.

Having this great car back after so long a break is almost like getting it new again. Reminds me of a high school joke: Bill says "Hit me!" (on the arm). Bob says "OK" and hits Bill. Bill says "Hit me again!" and Bob obliges. Etc., etc. -- this goes on for a while. Finally Bob asks Bill, "Why do you want me to hit you?" Says Bill: "Because it feels so good when you stop!"

The car is running great for the most part. I've driven 140+ miles since picking it up and when it's running right, it is indeed awesome.

Still, there were times when acceleration at 80 felt like it was backed by about 250-300 hp -- not slow, but not what I paid for either. So the dreaded "bad gas" symptoms may not be gone, if indeed that's the cause. (More below re bad gas.)

It was being awesome again as I approached home, however, and my hand-held-stopwatch 0-60 time is down to 5.1, from 5.5 just before I took it in for service on 12/29. It seemed to be running pretty good then, too -- tho apparently not AS good -- but it had been lagging a few miles earlier. The CEL (check engine light) had gone on, then off, and this time (according to the asst service mgr) the recorded data showed a problem with the serpentine belt, which was indeed splitting. So it was replaced, along with all related pulleys. Most pulleys showed up soon but the engine crank pulley, a $700 part which had to be ordered from Germany, took one business day shy of four weeks to get here -- or three weeks, if you factor in Audi AG taking two weeks off for the holidays. Three weeks is way too long IMO; my dealer agrees, as does my AoA owner advocate, but nothing has changed to improve it. So I may be writing soon to Len Hunt; anyone have experience doing that?

Then there's the ECM (aka ECU). The dealer asked & got my OK to open & inspect the engine control module. Result: It was showing that it had either been flashed (usually done to modify), or that the company Audi hires to set them right screwed up. Asst service mgr said, tho, that these deviations would not explain my performance issues. Personally I hope he's wrong, or at least that everything will be hunky-dory ALL the time after my new ECM is installed.

The dealer contacted AoA, who asked if I had modded the car; the dealer already knew I had not but asked me to sign, at AoA's request, a form to "confirm (that) 'Tuning' as described above (especially power increasing modifications) has NOT been performed on my vehicle." Another interesting paragraph appears above my signature: "I understand that if my Control Module is determined to have been tuned, any damage caused by the tuning of the Control Module (including adverse emissions consequences) will not be covered by Audi of America, Inc. warranties."

Since I have, indeed, NOT modified my ECM or any other aspect of the car, this could get interesting. I did meet Joe and Michael Hoppen, the MTM distributors located near me, and Mike made an offer that was tempting. After I told him about the subpar performance issues and Audi blaming it on bad gas (before I took the car in on 12/29), he offered to put in a chip & let me drive with it for a couple of days. If I didn't like it, no charge.

On one hand I am SO glad I didn't do that because I really am totally "clean." Then again, had I done it, maybe I wouldn't be having the lagging performance problem!

BTW when I asked the assistant service manager why they were blaming bad gas, he said it was a combination of factors that included codes showing sporadic misfiring of all eight cylinders (but no other fault codes at that time, i.e. my first visit re subpar performance), plus carbon buildup on the plugs. He also noted that the RS6 is "especially sensitive" to any gasoline imperfections, and he said a survey revealed Exxon as the only brand that met some sort of specification or expectation; sorry, I don't recall more, including whether this was local or national. But I plan to talk to him again because it's becoming a big problem here: There are no Exxon stations nearby, and the clerk at a local Chevron station that was Mobil three weeks ago said tonight, "It looks like Exxon-Mobil is moving out of SW Florida." Great, since SW Florida has heat & humidity conditions that can make it challenging for gas stations to maintain good gas anyway. Has anyone heard of similar Exxon exits elsewhere?

What else? My new Sirius radio sounds pretty good, but it's way to soon to compare it to XM, which I have enjoyed on my S4 in another state.

I know this is long but hope it hasn't been too boring. Since my beast may be the "oldest" in the US in miles, I thought it might be of interest for others to get an idea of potential issues ahead.

Here's hoping that as you pile the miles on, you have fewer issues than me! :) :mad: :) :mad:

JP4
January 24th, 2004, 16:23
Thanks for the update JAXRS6. Hope all goes well. And don't let AoA stick up your $%# on the ECU module if you haven't messed with it.

JP4 :addict:

JAXRS6
January 24th, 2004, 16:42
Originally posted by JP4
And don't let AoA stick up your $%# on the ECU module if you haven't messed with it.

Thanks for that sentiment. I definitely haven't messed with it. In fact, if it's found that someone did, Audi itself may have to answer for that because they are the only ones to possess the car besides me (before delivery & during service appointments).

JP4
January 24th, 2004, 17:03
Originally posted by JAXRS6
Thanks for that sentiment. I definitely haven't messed with it. In fact, if it's found that someone did, Audi itself may have to answer for that because they are the only ones to possess the car besides me (before delivery & during service appointments).

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Hopefully that won't be the case. I don't even want to think about what I would do if they tried to pull something like that. Keep us posted.

JP4 :addict:

Bauer
January 24th, 2004, 18:47
JAXRS6-

Glad to hear she is back in your hands!!!! 15k and you didn't have the car for a month......and I thought I drove a lot:D :D . Very interested to hear what AoA has to say about the ECU deal??? Heres to the problems staying behind you:cheers:

Aronis
January 24th, 2004, 21:31
There must be at least one Attorney who uses this board.

I would bet AoA would have a hell of a time PROVING that you had your ECU modified. In order to void your warrantee they would have to be ready to "take it to the mattrices." I would assume fellow owners of $85,000 cars would have the spare cash to get an Attorney on them if needed.

Make sure you get something in writing from your dealer about them being the first to break the factory seal on the ECU Box.

Mike

By the way, my biggest fear is 'needing' auto service for a car. They are rarely ever the same again.

JAXRS6
January 25th, 2004, 00:09
Originally posted by Aronis
Make sure you get something in writing from your dealer about them being the first to break the factory seal on the ECU Box.

Good idea -- I'll call with it Monday; thanks! Another thing I thought to ask is this: If the CEL was putting out codes indicating problems with the serpentine belt, why did the CEL light go out when the problem continued?

And if there are attorneys here interested in this, I welcome their input. I have a couple of good lawyers in Michigan, but I don't want to lean on them until necessary because the rate is $200/hour. I already found out a little about lemon laws, tho, and began a thread on that subject under Off Topic.

JAXRS6
January 25th, 2004, 07:54
Originally posted by Bauer
15k and you didn't have the car for a month......and I thought I drove a lot

Nearly half my miles were driven in two trips: Detroit to LA/San Francisco/Stockton & back, in Aug-Sept; plus Michigan to Florida in November. And yes, I'll post here once I hear back from AoA or the dealer on the ECM issue.

Benman
January 26th, 2004, 01:10
Originally posted by JAXRS6
I know this is long but hope it hasn't been too boring. Since my beast may be the "oldest" in the US in miles, I thought it might be of interest for others to get an idea of potential issues ahead.

I for sure found your post MOST interesting. I would be shocked if AOA puts the blam on you.

The MAIN reason most of us are holding back on chipping our Beasts is BECAUSE of losing our warranties. So if they were to blame chipping as the problem on a car that is not chipped would be outrageous! Hope all goes well and keep us posted.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Aronis
January 26th, 2004, 01:37
I have not receive my copy of shop manual, so I have not looked closely at the engine.

Is the Serpentine Belt a single belt that runs everything?, ALT, A/C, etc.?

Is it visible under the hood?

What signs of wear show up early?

Why did the pulleys need to be replaced?

And how does the Computer know the belt is in trouble? Perhaps some method of detecting trouble is not 100% so ECU would not consistently show a problem.

Mike

nene
January 26th, 2004, 03:41
Thanks for the great write up and all the details. I don't believe that AoA will point towards you as the main cause of the problem (such as chippin'..which you didn't).

I think the issue will get resolved soon, and they will right by you. Good luck!

JAXRS6
January 26th, 2004, 04:23
ARONIS: I do believe the serpentine belt winds around several pulleys & is part of several functions, including AC, since I was told one of the pulleys was for AC when I examined it at the dealership.

Visible under the hood? Not sure but I don't think so. When I saw it, the car was on a hoist & the protective cover under the engine had been removed, exposing the engine and the belt. The belt had a split down the middle, i.e. was on the verge of becoming two belts. I also saw some silver-like color on the AC pulley, which should have been all black, indicating the black had worn off or been scraped off -- i.e. damaged. Here's the text from the work order: "TECH FOUND TIMING BELT SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE AND ALL PULLEYS GROOVED" (Yeah, I know, it says timing belt & not serpentine belt; don't know why but will ask Monday when I call dealer.)

Signs of early wear? Not sure how to answer that, other taking a look from below while it's on a hoist. But I'll ask about that Monday, too.

How does the computer know? Again, I'm not sure but will ask. My guess at the moment is that one or more of the pulleys was out of alignment & created a vibration that alerted the computer.

NENE: Thanks for the positive thought -- I hope you're right! The last way I want to spend my retirement time is fighting Audi. But if they blame me for something I didn't do & try to void my warranty as a result, I have the resources to fight them.

Aronis
January 26th, 2004, 13:24
JAXRS6,

That would make sense. The belt in older cars did control spark ignition timing. I was a bit supprised to hear that newer cars with eletronic everything still rely on a timing belt external to the internal chain that turns the camshaft! Strange, but I guess that makes sense.

So what is the normal duty cycle for such a belt?

Mike

PS Looks like you have to take the car a part to get at this belt LOL....recall the old V8 Monza, in which you had to REMOVE the engine to get at the back two spark plugs!

Bauer
January 26th, 2004, 16:36
So what is the normal duty cycle for such a belt?

Believe it or not 30k ....normaly on an Audi you would be looking at 60k. I am assuming it is becasue of the amount of heat the Cossy motor puts off but who knows....will ask tech next time I am in.:cheers:

JAXRS6
January 26th, 2004, 17:58
Just got off the phone with the asst service mgr re questions raised here:

SERPENTINE BELT -- He said the serpentine is "a" timing belt, but not "the" internal timing belt. He could think of no way to check for early wear (other than hoist & look); then again, what happened to me may be an aberration, since it's the first time they found this problem on ANY model Audi.

The cause? Heat is not likely, he said, because the belt didn't have a "stress" split; it was sliced. So the prevailing dealer & AoA theory at the moment is that somehow, something (a sticky pebble or rock?) somehow got caught, then caused damage as the belt made its way through the pulleys. I've driven through numerous construction zones in my 14,500 miles, so picking up a sticky rock or pebble certainly seems plausible.

Of course, that raises the question of how did such a thing get into an engine compartment that is protected by a shield below. Well, I just took a look & there is a way for small pebbles to get into the engine compartment from the road via vents in the fender wells.

BTW I may have been wrong in reporting earlier that the asst service mgr said the belt problem was discovered by a fault code. I thought that's what he said, but today he said it was discovered while inspecting the engine for potential causes of subpar performance -- which is why I took the car in.

ECM: The dealer here in Florida says they never go into ECMs; they just ship them to AoA when diagnosis (flash) shows a problem that warrants such action. And in my case, rather than finding codes that should have been there from pre-delivery inspection by my selling dealer (in Michigan), "there was no embellishment -- just a bunch of zeros." So -- maybe someone up north messed up?!

As for a "factory seal," the asst service mgr said he doesn't know if there is one, and for him it's not relevant because they never go inside anyway (as explained above). I'll raise that question again, tho, when I go in for the new ECM & have a chance to talk to the tech working on my car-- and, hopefully, see the current ECM box myself before the existing ECM gets sent back to AoA. In fact I could take a look at the box now, if someone can help me identify it. An engine compartment photo that shows it would be especially helpful.

Aronis
January 26th, 2004, 18:20
I must say I was very surprised when I saw the vents in the fender well. I had heard a strange noise that sounded like a rock hitting a grate. It was just that.

When I looked, I was surprised. The vents are pretty big, and yes a rock could easily be thrown up into the engine compartment.

I don't understand why they don't have a finer grate for the venting. Perhaps Mesh wire or something could be added. I would not want it to get plugged with snow in the winter, but then again, if the turbos are hot they will melt any snow plug.

On the passenger side this problem is more apparent since you can actually see the vents well from above. On the drivers size the vents are hidden under some othe hardware.

His explaination about a stone getting cought in the belt sounds very possible.

Thanks for your posts.

Mike