Ouch - feedback appreciated

[LIRS6]

Beast at dealer due MIL, fan running consistently after shutdown;

dealer says needs:

O2 sensors replaced (P1457, P1453) - oops, read EGT sensors, not O2 sensors
Coolant temp sensor + thermostat replaced
emissions purge valve solenoid replaced (P0441)

Dealer quoting $6600 - the standard "we have to remove the engine blah blah blah..

Any suggestions?

Fyi 142k on her

TIA

[ttboost]

I have 2 suggestions: 1. Ask the dealer to wear a condom. 2. Find a good indy. HIGHLY recommend #2. As I recall, all of these can be done with the engine in, and fairly quickly, and parts are probably under $150 if you get them yourself. Dealer isn't going to do it that way, but that's why it's $7k.

[Other_Erik]

Beast at dealer due MIL, fan running consistently after shutdown;

dealer says needs:

O2 sensors replaced (P1457, P1453)
Coolant temp sensor + thermostat replaced
emissions purge valve solenoid replaced (P0441)

Dealer quoting $6600 - the standard "we have to remove the engine blah blah blah..

Any suggestions?

Fyi 142k on her

TIA

Check with a local independent shop specializing in Audi's. Dealer quoted me $4700 to replace a failed motor mount with the same rigamarole, local indy did the whole job for $785

O_E

[ttboost]

Yes, despite what the dealer says, MANY things can be done with the engine right where it is...is it easier with the engine out, sure...but STILL not as much time as engine removal.

[LIRS6]

Thanks for the comments, has anyone actually replaced any of the: O2 sensors, coolant temp sensor, thermostat, or emissions purge valve solenoid without engine removal? If so, which please?

[ttboost]

All of them. O2 sensors are obviously the hardest, but can be accessed with some persuasion. I think you can lower the rear of the subframe and reach in to get them. I THINK you can see the upper ones from up top too? Coolant temp sensor is a 10 minute fix, as long as you don't drop the clip. It is behind the drivers side cylinder head (usually a green sensor on the coolant hoses, held in by a plastic clip) "Emissions purge solenoid"? If this is what I think it is, it is the solenoid feeding the combi valves. This is sitting right on top of the manifold, on the front of the engine, under the carbon fiber cover. 1 connector and 2 hoses. MIGHT take 10 minutes to swap, if you don't take a break.

[LIRS6]

Many thanks ttboost

[ttboost]

I have actually changed all the items you describe. If you have a friend that is handy with a wrench, buy him a case of beer and save yourself $6300 or so...Good luck and keep us posted.

[LIRS6]

My bad - it's not the O2 sensors, it's the EGT sensors (P1457 + P1453) that need replacement .... still unnecessary to remove engine?

[na1mt]

The EGT sensors can be replaced with engine in car. It isn't the easiest task to accomplish but definitely doable.

[lswing]

My bad - it's not the O2 sensors, it's the EGT sensors (P1457 + P1453) that need replacement .... still unnecessary to remove engine?

At least it's both of them, a parts dealer said they sold the last single one in the US to my mechanic. So now you can only order pairs is what he said, $500-700 for the set I'm guessing...

[ttboost]

The EGT sensors can be replaced with engine in car. It isn't the easiest task to accomplish but definitely doable.

+1. Connectors/modules are on the drivers side firewall, mounted back to back with the same 2 screws. I do think you can access them as well, with the engine in. Little tough as they are up there. MIGHT be easier to access from up top, don't recall. If you have a tune, ask your tuner to code them out and just leave them there forever...I deleted mine...cut them right out...

[nene]

Did you get the codes that it was throwing?
I could not find "P1457, P1453" in the eBahn Reader manual.

15165
15166
15167
15168

[Bigglezworth]

Dealer quoting $6600 - the standard "we have to remove the engine blah blah blah..Ensure you ask for the complementary reach around..... EGT and O2's can be done without removing the engine/tranny in their entirety. I does however necessitate significant lowering of the engine and tranny from the bay. I have done it, but not without also removing the K frame and bracing/shoring the powerplant. It is by no means remotely close to 'easy', but with patience it can be done.

[nene]

Hope the previously attached images will help.

I checked a previous service I had at 33K miles, and I had the emissions purge valve replaced by the dealer, and no mention of the engine coming out.
Valve part number: 077-133-517-C (count: 1)
Clip part number: N-100-980-01 (count: 2)

I have no record of ever fixing the other parts.

[Dmb408]

Keep us up-to-date though on what you end up doing/paying because I think we all love indy/audi frame of reference price wise.

[nene]

Talking of indy shops, I think it would great to have a thread on indy shops with details on location and contact (name/email/phone). Also if they specialize in something in particular, that would be useful in the posts as well.
This could prove quite useful in the long run. If possible make it sticky, even more useful.

I don't know any indy shops so I can't really start anything useful. Maybe Tozo is a good place to start?

[LIRS6]

Talking of indy shops, I think it would great to have a thread on indy shops with details on location and contact (name/email/phone). Also if they specialize in something in particular, that would be useful in the posts as well.
This could prove quite useful in the long run. If possible make it sticky, even more useful.

I don't know any indy shops so I can't really start anything useful. Maybe Tozo is a good place to start?

Great idea - I'll start a thread, maybe Eric will make it a sticky.

[lswing]

+1. Connectors/modules are on the drivers side firewall, mounted back to back with the same 2 screws. I do think you can access them as well, with the engine in. Little tough as they are up there. MIGHT be easier to access from up top, don't recall. If you have a tune, ask your tuner to code them out and just leave them there forever...I deleted mine...cut them right out...

Isn't that a bit dangerous? You can code them out and drive fine, but if everything heats up for some reason you won't have the safety fuel dump at 2,000F. Explain taking the risk? So only the first set of O2's have anything to do with fuel regulation right? Just confirming...

[DHall1]

Leave the egts alone for now.

Change coolant temp sensor first. 150

See if it fixes the fans.

If not then do the full timing belt job w thermostat.

Done.


Beast at dealer due MIL, fan running consistently after shutdown;

dealer says needs:

O2 sensors replaced (P1457, P1453) - oops, read EGT sensors, not O2 sensors
Coolant temp sensor + thermostat replaced
emissions purge valve solenoid replaced (P0441)

Dealer quoting $6600 - the standard "we have to remove the engine blah blah blah..

Any suggestions?

Fyi 142k on her

TIA

[LIRS6]

[QUOTE=DHall1;259683]Leave the egts alone for now.

Change coolant temp sensor first. 150

See if it fixes the fans.

If not then do the full timing belt job w thermostat.

Done.[/QUOTE

Thanks

[ttboost]

Isn't that a bit dangerous? You can code them out and drive fine, but if everything heats up for some reason you won't have the safety fuel dump at 2,000F. Explain taking the risk? So only the first set of O2's have anything to do with fuel regulation right? Just confirming...

Many turbo vehicles don't have EGT's. I drove without mine for 2 years. Are they great to have, sure...but not at $300-$400 a piece and they seem to die fairly easily...snip...

[LIRS6]

up-date : told dealer $6600 absurd, no need to pull engine, drop the rear, will take about 5 hrs. response was that their tech (who I happen to like) was willing to try it that way w/o gtee.

what would the charge be sans EGT's ? :

$900 for coolant temp sensor + thermostat
$400 for purge valve

Huh?

well, labor, clearing codes etc.

18 straight years i've been a customer ... gee, maybe i can discuss a discount for you

you guys inspired me to tell them "no thanks, I'll pick my car up tonite"

so now i need help with parts nbrs please - coolant temp sensor? emissions purge valve solenoid?

is thermostat replacement a DIY?

TIA

[ttboost]

I'm wondering if you can skip the thermostat for now (save it for your next timing belt job). Just do the Coolant sensor for now. Cheap and easy. See what happens. Just google "Audi RS6 coolant temperature sensor". You'' see the sensor, the clip and the O-ring..all for less than $20. It MIGHT take you 20 minutes to change yourself.

[Bigglezworth]

$900 for coolant temp sensor + thermostat

is thermostat replacement a DIY? The ONLY way to change the Tstat is to place the front clip in service mode, and remove the timing belt. If you are seasoned at timing belt replacement (i.e. at least a couple under your belt), you can R&R a Tstat from drive in to drive away in under 3 hours! In fact after having done a half dozen on three different cars now, I can swap just a T-stat in 2.5 hours. Yes you read correct.

The reason for the butt clenching $$ quotes by dealers is due to prescribed book values. They sometimes encounter difficulties that eat in to repair time and loose out on the amount of work put in vs. what the 'book rate' should have well accounted for. More frequently than not however they come out WELL ahead $$ wise.

As Mike said, leave the Tstat until you performe schedule timing belt maintenance. Unless you're encountering over heating problems, there is no need to tackle it. Constant running fan would have many a member on this board placing their money on the coolant sensor. $20 skins and just a few mins of your time as long as it's not seized in place.

[ttboost]

Yep...and tie a wire to the plastic clip. So WHEN you drop it (not if), you can just pull it back up....trust us...

[LIRS6]

Thanks gents. Found coolant temp sensor at ESC Tuning, they comment it is the "green unit" and to check if same in vehicle http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-RS6--4.2T/ES1484/ - is that the correct one? (my car inaccessible at moment)

found emissions purge valve solenoid at ESC as well, choice of 4 diff manufacturers, will go with Bosch for $54.

[ttboost]

Yep...that's it...

[LIRS6]

ordered, thanks again

[DHall1]

My list was to be taken in steps. 1 2 3 4

Just do the coolant sender and recheck fans. A good chance you are done at that point

The dealer 900 for sender and tstat was not that bad given dealer rates.


Leave the egts alone for now.

Change coolant temp sensor first. 150

See if it fixes the fans.

If not then do the full timing belt job w thermostat.

Done.

[Cmnair]

I would take it to Tyrol or Elite Motorsports in Farmingdale

[ttboost]

My list was to be taken in steps. 1 2 3 4

Just do the coolant sender and recheck fans. A good chance you are done at that point

The dealer 900 for sender and tstat was not that bad given dealer rates.

I absolutely agree with the 2nd comment...3rd..not so much...

[Bigglezworth]

My list was to be taken in steps. 1 2 3 4

Just do the coolant sender and recheck fans. A good chance you are done at that point

The dealer 900 for sender and tstat was not that bad given dealer rates.
Dave,

$900 skins for a 2.5-3.0max job? That's criminal.

[DHall1]

3.0hr is not book time for the tstat.

Dealer charges book time. You and I are not paying 900 for a tstat but we make up less than 1% of the general pop out there


Dave,

$900 skins for a 2.5-3.0max job? That's criminal.

[LIRS6]

I'm wondering if you can skip the thermostat for now (save it for your next timing belt job). Just do the Coolant sensor for now. Cheap and easy. See what happens. Just google "Audi RS6 coolant temperature sensor". You'' see the sensor, the clip and the O-ring..all for less than $20. It MIGHT take you 20 minutes to change yourself.

I presume that I'll need to remove the airbox to access the coolant temp sensor - is it fairly straightforward to remove?

[Corbett]

Coolant temp sensor will take you like 15 mins and costs like $30

[Corbett]

I presume that I'll need to remove the airbox to access the coolant temp sensor - is it fairly straightforward to remove?


Loosen clamps from airbox to silver intelts. Unbolt center bolt for air box on top of intake manifold. Unbolt sides of airbox from both sides. Lift up airbox and disconnect mafs.

[ttboost]

Going by memory here, so anyone correct me if I am wrong. Remove the air box and look behind the drivers side cylinder head area. You will see the green sensor sticking out of a fitting/housing, with the electrical connector on top. Unplug the sensor and move that connector and harness out of the way. Now you should be able to see the plastic "C" shaped clip holding the sensor in horizontally in the "housing" where the sensor resides. CAREFULLY slide that clip out. Good luck if you drop it. I would try to snake a wire around it first, if you can. Once you slide clip out, you should be able to pull straight up on sensor. You might lose a bit of coolant, but just stick a rag or a few paper towels under and around the sensor before you try to pull it out. It really shouldn't be much of a mess, if any at all. Make sure new sensor has O-ring on it (otherwise, reuse the old one), carefully push new sensor back in, slide new clip on (presuming that you lost old one), plug it in, put on air box, drive car, get back on forum and thank us for saving you $900. This should take you 20 minutes, including a 10min break.

[LIRS6]

.....get back on forum and thank us for saving you $900.....

Always - this forum is superb. I like to consider that I have payed it forward myself at various times over the past 10 years ... that's what helps to keep us all in our cars, I believe.

Side note - I went to an Indy as suggested here on this forum - Elite Motorsports in Farmingdale, NY. Met one of the owners - asked a few q's related to the RS6 - they have worked on them. Asked him about EGT's, and the procedure they would use to install them. Without missing a beat, he said "drop the sub frame." I think I've found my Indy.

One new issue - driver side seatbelt giving me fits; at times, I am unable to pull the belt out at all. So I start to drive (I feel naked doing so), and typically after a few mins I am then able to pull it out. Any thoughts? Is it correct that seat belts are required by law to be warranted by the manufacturer for the life of a vehicle, i.e. that any required repairs are covered?

TIA

[LIRS6]

Purge valve installed - that took all of ten minutes (cost for valve $54.99 from ECS Tuning) - dealer wanted $401.32

Will tackle coolant temp sensor this w/end

[ttboost]

Purge valve installed - that took all of ten minutes (cost for valve $54.99 from ESC Tuning) - dealer wanted $401.32

Will tackle coolant temp sensor this w/end

Nice..good for you....told you so....that one is the easiest, but you'll get them all...and save yourself $5k in the process...

[Dmb408]

ECS sent me the wrong coolant temp sensor first, so you may want to triple verify part number with them.

And if you need specific coolant temp sens answers message me when you are doing it since i have done it two times over the last couple months.

[LIRS6]

ECS sent me the wrong coolant temp sensor first, so you may want to triple verify part number with them.

And if you need specific coolant temp sens answers message me when you are doing it since i have done it two times over the last couple months.

Thanks very much, comment on ECS website noted to check the color of the sensor - green in this case, so i understand (and from what I could see).

[Corbett]

Thanks very much, comment on ECS website noted to check the color of the sensor - green in this case, so i understand (and from what I could see).

I just did mine last night. PM me too if you have questions. took about 15 mins all together.

[LIRS6]

Okay, so my DIY seems to be a catastrophe:

Purge valve replaced, no further code.

Next day:

I removed the airbox to replace the ECT, which was successfully replaced w/o losing the clip (I had taken heed to everyone's warning, and had drilled a 1/16 inch hole into the clip, and secured dental floss to it, tying the other end to something in the engine bay. Dropped the clip, fished it up no prob).

I then re-attached the air box, started the engine and saw what I believed to be exhaust fumes coming out from the rear of the air box. Okay, so the MAFs are not seated properly, so I re-attempt to seat them about 12 times, never confident that the MAFs are seated properly. Give up for the night, attack it again the next day. Re-oil the seals (which looked fine to me), re-attempt and now I think I have it done properly. Start the engine up - no apparent exhaust. Cool. Ooops - ESP light comes on (the triangular job). Hmmm... take out the Ross-tech and run a scan, yielding the following:

Address 01: Engine Labels: 077-907-558-BCY.lbl
Part No: 4D1 907 558 D
Component: 4.2l V8/5VT G 0003
Coding: 0006752
Shop #: WSC 02195 785 00200
VCID: 2F660368BDB073663D9-50E6

3 Faults Found:
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0102 - 002 - Signal too Low - MIL ON
17861 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 1 (G235)
P1453 - 001 - Open or Short to Plus
17865 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 2 (G236)
P1457 - 001 - Open or Short to Plus
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01L-927-156.lbl
Part No: 4B0 927 156 FL
Component: AG5 01L 4.2l5VT USA 0305
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 02195 785 00200
VCID: 76E8F60C026A02AEBEF-50C8

1 Fault Found:
18265 - Load Signal
P1857 - 003 - Error Message from ECU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 4B0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 4B0 614 517 AD
Component: ESP 5.7 RS 6 2310
Coding: 06697
Shop #: WSC 02195
VCID: 63CEBF58F1F88706E91-50C8

1 Fault Found:
18265 - Load Signal
P1857 - 35-00 - Error Message from ECU

The EGT's were already an issue, but NEW I now have: the MAF, tranny, and ABS faults.

I cleared the codes, drove about 50 feet, and the MIL re-appears, vag-com yielding same codes.

What did I screw up?

Should I try disconnecting the battery in view of the ECU faults?

Might a wire have come loose from one of the MAF plugs? (is 002 the driver's side? - the MAF wires on that side were exposed going into the plug, i.e. the rubber sleave had ripped away)

One last brain teaser; I have an RNS-E unit. When I pull the hood release, the radio goes into mute mode. Slam the hood down, mute goes off. Does my car have gremlins?
(Fyi 142K , original owner).

..... the all-wheel drive 2015 Hyundai Genesis is starting to catch my attention

[Corbett]

My only guess would be to check your ground. There is a ground right by the area you were just working in. Brown wires.

[LIRS6]

Thanks Corbett, didn't find anything obvious .... any other thoughts/suggestions out there?

[ben916]

Thanks Corbett, didn't find anything obvious .... any other thoughts/suggestions out there?

That whole OEM MAF connecter setup is $hit!
I had made plans to create a jumper that allowed some space for ONE person to lift up the airbox from the MAFs and then set it on the manifold and disconnect MAFs using the jumper versus at the MAF connection.

Dave is in possession of the new set of OEM MAF hardware, minus the 5 wires. I will get the contact info for the 5 wire jumper connectors.
These MAF connections and wires shouldn't be so fragile...