Clutch will not disengage

[RAUDI]

Do you have to install the slave after the transmission is mated?
I did it before.
Now, no matter how much I bleed it and at what angle it just stays soft. I got it to return to normal, but it was still not enough to get the engine free of the transmission.

PLEASE HELP.

This is the last thing to solve before I can drive my car.

Greg

[ttboost]

Everything should be set up before you mate engine and gearbox. Then it is just a matter of putting pressure up against the TO bearing. Are you sure everything is properly aligned, etc...Remove the line to the slave and make sure you have fluid pissing out when you push pedal, then connect it to the slave and start bleeding then...With help, can you see the slave start to move when the pedal is depressed? Mine took a bit to bleed and I had to do it by myself...

[RAUDI]

What could be misaligned? Slave was on the transmission first. Installed the flywheel, then the clutch, then mated the 2.

After bleeding I could hear the spring being manipulated by the slave. This morning I was able to drive it around the block. Then after bleeding again it would not work.

[JSRS6]

If you don't figure it out by this weekend, I can take a look.

[RAUDI]

If you don't figure it out by this weekend, I can take a look.


Well I hope I do, but if not I"ll take you up on that.

[milka]

I had this same issue at the exact same stage of my build as you, with the FX850, I don't know how many times I bled it and nearly replaced the Clutch master, etc.

In the end it was actually just that the friction material had nearly bonded to the flywheel while sitting there, I just had to break the clutch plates free, after this all good.

[RAUDI]

I had this same issue at the exact same stage of my build as you, with the FX850, I don't know how many times I bled it and nearly replaced the Clutch master, etc.

In the end it was actually just that the friction material had nearly bonded to the flywheel while sitting there, I just had to break the clutch plates free, after this all good.


I installed the clutch and flywheel on Thursday and then yesterday (Tuesday) was the first time trying to drive it. Does that seem like enough time for that to happen? How did you break it free?

[milka]

It was a while ago but I think we started the engine while in gear with clutch in and on hoist, just in case

[ttboost]

Sounds like you have to keep bleeding it. I can only assume that you are bleeding manually and are doing it correctly? Not sure how you are bleeding it...could take while... I was about 20 minutes to a half hour getting a good feel on mine...I had no help, so I had to wedge a 2x4 between the pedal and the seat, go under the car, crack the bleeder, pinch it down, remove 2x4, get a couple of pumps, etc...etc...If it's drivable now, you're close..might be all set...

[RAUDI]

Sounds like you have to keep bleeding it. I can only assume that you are bleeding manually and are doing it correctly? Not sure how you are bleeding it...could take while... I was about 20 minutes to a half hour getting a good feel on mine...I had no help, so I had to wedge a 2x4 between the pedal and the seat, go under the car, crack the bleeder, pinch it down, remove 2x4, get a couple of pumps, etc...etc...If it's drivable now, you're close..might be all set...

I was using the power bleeder set to as 30 psi. Procedure calls for 2.5 bar, but my bleeder gauge only goes to 2. I ran over a liter through the clutch system. I guess I will phone a friend and try the manual way and try to manipulate the shape of the clutch line. How stiff was the pedal once you got it all done? Right now it feels lighter than Honda Civic and does not spring back to resting and I would expect.

[ttboost]

I seem to recall it was fairly stout. Not super stiff, but considerably more than it sounds like you have. If you have the Spec Stage 3+, it will hold 600-650ft/lbs, so it will not be that light...I suspect you still have air. Keep bleeding ti...you'll know when it feels good. When you think you have it, keep pumping it about 20 times, just to make sure. Double check inside that the line is tight (on the master). Anything leaking inside? I used the stainless flexible line from USP too, not the factory hard line.

[RAUDI]

I seem to recall it was fairly stout. Not super stiff, but considerably more than it sounds like you have. If you have the Spec Stage 3+, it will hold 600-650ft/lbs, so it will not be that light...I suspect you still have air. Keep bleeding ti...you'll know when it feels good. When you think you have it, keep pumping it about 20 times, just to make sure. Double check inside that the line is tight (on the master). Anything leaking inside? I used the stainless flexible line from USP too, not the factory hard line.

I too have the USP stainless line. OK, you have made me feel a little better. I looked at all of the connections last night and did not see any weeping or leaking of any kind. It was definitely not stout by any standard. I could still push it to the floor with my hand easily. I'll get to bleeding again this evening and let you know what I find. Thanks for the help. If it works I owe you a beer.

[ttboost]

Even when it's working perfectly, you can push it in with your hand, but you know it is a lot stiffer....good luck..keep us posted...

[SteveKen]

You could be bleeding the line but not the slave, itself. At the point where you are at, with the pedal down and the bleeder screw open, you need to fully compress the slave plunger. The only way I know how to do this with the slave out of the transmission if it's installed. I've done it on the RS6, but it's tight of course.

The easy way is to do it with just the transmission mocked up to where you can push the fork in by hand. If you push the plunger in by hand, there's a chance that you can get the piston crooked and have it explode when it pops back. Don't ask how I know this.

In short, you need to make sure that the slave is bled as you might only be bleeding the line.

Are you using the the stock plastic slave with the USP flex hose or the modded Ur steel one?

[RAUDI]

You could be bleeding the line but not the slave, itself. At the point where you are at, with the pedal down and the bleeder screw open, you need to fully compress the slave plunger. The only way I know how to do this with the slave out of the transmission if it's installed. I've done it on the RS6, but it's tight of course.

The easy way is to do it with just the transmission mocked up to where you can push the fork in by hand. If you push the plunger in by hand, there's a chance that you can get the piston crooked and have it explode when it pops back. Don't ask how I know this.

In short, you need to make sure that the slave is bled as you might only be bleeding the line.

Are you using the the stock plastic slave with the USP flex hose or the modded Ur steel one?


I have the USP line with the stock plastic slave.
OK, well i guess I will pull it out and bleed it like this tonight. The only way to do that is to lower the rear of the engine, correct?

[SteveKen]

I have the USP line with the stock plastic slave.
OK, well i guess I will pull it out and bleed it like this tonight. The only way to do that is to lower the rear of the engine, correct?


I think you might be able to do it without lowering it. Not easy, though, and you might be better off lowering it or maybe just remove the driver's side downpipe.

[ttboost]

You can probably stick your arms up there and work blind...much easier with another set of hands.

[RAUDI]

I got home late from work today at 5:30 (for me its late). Still managed to get the left axle off, let tranny mount and the old slave out. I pre bled the new one and ran a half liter through it until I was sure there were no bubbles.

Pressed the slave in with my hand,
had a friend press in the clutch to the floor,
pressed the slave in with my hand and hte bleeder open,
shut the bleeder before releasing my hand,
installed the new slave and slowly released the clutch pedal
Pressed it back and and voila, an operable clutch


for a few minutes

I drove 3 miles and turned around. I was having to rev match to shift at all. And when I put it in first with the clutch in I could feel it still trying to engage.

I do not see any fluid escaping but will check again tomorrow in the light.

[ttboost]

Sounds like you still got air...getting closer...but still got air...

[RAUDI]

Sounds like you still got air...getting closer...but still got air...


I'll keep plugging away. It is supposed to by sunny and 60 on Sunday. That sounds like a great reason to put some miles on the clutch.

[hahnmgh63]

I think with the 2.7's they always said put the car on jackstands, one end in the air to do the Bleed. Can't remember which but a quick look at the bleed screw on the slave should answer that.

[SteveKen]

I got home late from work today at 5:30 (for me its late). Still managed to get the left axle off, let tranny mount and the old slave out. I pre bled the new one and ran a half liter through it until I was sure there were no bubbles.

Pressed the slave in with my hand,
had a friend press in the clutch to the floor,
pressed the slave in with my hand and hte bleeder open,
shut the bleeder before releasing my hand,
installed the new slave and slowly released the clutch pedal
Pressed it back and and voila, an operable clutch


for a few minutes

I drove 3 miles and turned around. I was having to rev match to shift at all. And when I put it in first with the clutch in I could feel it still trying to engage.

I do not see any fluid escaping but will check again tomorrow in the light.

Once the slave piston is pushed in, never release it with the bleeder screw open. Always close the bleeder before releasing the slave piston.

Do this at least twice.

It's strange that I've done this on my share of cars and never went through a lot of fluid.

[RAUDI]

So I no longer think I have a hydraulic problem. I think there is too much travel. There is a spot that the clutch works fine, but if you continue past it will start to bite again. I don't want to ruin the clutch. I now just need to figure out how to limit the pedal travel.

[SteveKen]

So I no longer think I have a hydraulic problem. I think there is too much travel. There is a spot that the clutch works fine, but if you continue past it will start to bite again. I don't want to ruin the clutch. I now just need to figure out how to limit the pedal travel.

Thats strange. I don't know enough about this to say what would cause that.

Did your clutch kit come with a throwout bearing or did you have to supply your own? The non SAC throwout bearings are about 10 mm thicker but you might have gotten one that was too thick from SPEC?

http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6_2/TO_Brg_comp.jpg

I've never heard of too much pedal causing the engagement problem you are having but this condition would cause too much pressure on the pressure plate with the clutch engaged. This can cause slippage more than engagement issues as well as enough heat with hard driving to actually melt the PP forks.

I've heard of people cutting down the rod that seats in the dimple of the clutch fork to take pressure off of the TO bearing but maybe you have an issue with the rod seating in the clutch fork?

[RAUDI]

Did your clutch kit come with a throwout bearing or did you have to supply your own? The non SAC throwout bearings are about 10 mm thicker but you might have gotten one that was too thick from SPEC?

http://kendrish.com/galleries/RS6_2/TO_Brg_comp.jpg

I've never heard of too much pedal causing the engagement problem you are having but this condition would cause too much pressure on the pressure plate with the clutch engaged. This can cause slippage more than engagement issues as well as enough heat with hard driving to actually melt the PP forks.

I've heard of people cutting down the rod that seats in the dimple of the clutch fork to take pressure off of the TO bearing but maybe you have an issue with the rod seating in the clutch fork?

I did get the non SAC throwout bearing that SPEC supplied and it looks exactly as your picture. It doesn't seem to be riding on the forks when the clutch pedal is at rest though. For now I will install a bump on the back of the clutch pedal and look in to modifying the now "extra" slave I replaced yesterday. It can't be much that would need to come off. I was careful with the pedal tonight and got to get about 20 miles in with no problems. I couldn't be happier with the way Raudi moves.