2007 s6 v10...

[lswing]

Tell me why I should not buy this? Updated interior looks really nice, V10, 6 speed with paddles.

What goes wrong with these if anybody knows? Just a nice example, 435hp for starters, maybe chip for a few more, thoughts.

If the link above doesn't work, please copy this link into your browser.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=97405&endYear=2014&modelCode1=S6&showcaseOwnerId=65057635&startYear=1981&makeCode1=AUDI&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=200&mmt=[AUDI[S6[]][]]&listingId=359535993 (http://click.messages.autotrader.com/?qs=dbc85e6eb898906a4bce64ec2bc670cf760b2bf3fc9161 4550eb767302b99b24ed87c20dc1c24143)

[Chung]

It needs brakes :)

I don't know much about them but I thought they had the same maintenance issues and are not that fast. I do think the V10 S8 are attractively priced as well. Probably closer to a stock RS6 speed.

[Zmey]

This 5.2 is extremely detuned and the car is almost 4600lbs it barely cracks low 14s in 1/4. But it does look like a nice cruiser. I would probably go for s8, it weigh less, has 450hp and more space.

[DHall1]

Kuni had/has an excellent rep back in the day.

I almost went for the 08 S8 before making the decision to go with RS6 #3 as my daily. A Daytona/black S8 is just about the best looking luxury sedan on the roads today.

[ZCD2.7T]

Tell me why I should not buy this? Updated interior looks really nice, V10, 6 speed with paddles.

What goes wrong with these if anybody knows? Just a nice example, 435hp for starters, maybe chip for a few more, thoughts.




Those cars look great inside and out, they're really nice to ride in, and they sound sublime - subdued, but sublime.

However, comma, they really aren't that fast, and there's very little that can be done about that. Last I knew, Unitronic was the only company offering any tuning for it on this side of the pond, and the gains were minimal - like 25 hp. Fuel mileage is also pretty dismal, if that's of any importance to you.

If you love the looks and want a cruiser, sure, why not? If you're thinking it will feel anything like an RS6 - it won't.

Personally, I'd spend a little more and get a B8 S4, which is a better car in every way, with the exception of rear seat roominess.

[AndyBG]

I allways liked this car... Fantastic enterior, great seats, V10 engine...

[DHall1]

+1 on the B8 S4. Prices are very good right now.

[lswing]

The interior is just amazing to me. She's a big car for sure, and a bit square, parked next to one last year, and it seemed bigger than the RS6. From reading, this is a de-tuned V10, and can easily hold another 50hp. Think about how a Gallardo sounds, wow.....seats look comfy too, more like a Recarro.

There was also some speculation that the engine block of the original 5.0 litre Lamborghini V10 is closely based on the Audi 4.2 FSI V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines#4.2_V8_FSI _257-309kW), which Audi produces for their luxury cars. However, this was denied by AUDI AG, in their official documentation for their 5.2 FSI V10 engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines#5.2_FSI_V1 0_320-331kW_.28S6.2FS8.29), as used in the Audi S6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S6) and Audi S8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S8) - the Lamborghini 5.0 V10 has a cylinder bore spacing of 88 millimetres (3.46 in) between centres, whereas the Audi 5.2 V10 cylinder bore spacing is 90 millimetres (3.54 in).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_V10#cite_note-3) The cylinder heads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_head) use the four valves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-valve) per cylinder layout favoured by the Italian firm, rather than the five valve per cylinder variation formerly favoured by the German members of Volkswagen Group - including Audi and Volkswagen Passenger Cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen). It was later confirmed by Stefan Reil of Audi's quattro GmbH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_GmbH) subsidiary that the new 5.2 litre Lamborghini V10 does share technologies with the Audi 5.2 V10 engine, as is evident by Lamborghini's usage of Audi's Fuel Stratified Injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection), and 90 mm cylinder spacing.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_V10#cite_note-AW-5.2-4)

[Chase]

The gas mileage is very poor for a nice, but not spectacular car.

[lswing]

The gas mileage is very poor for a nice, but not spectacular car.

Well, I currently get 12mpg.....and the interior of the S6 looks amazing compared. If it's around in a few weeks I'll go for a test drive and see. Still plenty of torque in a big luxury machine.

I can have the RS6 as my sports car...I mean it's no Miata, but I still love it...

[Bdubs]

I owned a 2007 S6 a few years ago. I loved the car. It was not amazingly fast (low 5 sec 0-60), but the instant on torque of the V10 and the overall comfort/fun to drive balance of the car was perfect for me. The paddles were actually pretty responsive, too, so I used them a lot. I had two issues in my year of ownership...coolant reservoir cracked (I'd expect this to go on the one you are looking at if it hasn't already been replaced) and a rear seat belt sensor went bad. My Audi mechanic friend said the V10s are actually pretty reliable. Some have had issues with carbon buildup, but I never did.

They push hard in corners with so much weight out front and my 2002 S6 was a lot more fun in the corners, so keep that in mind if you want a corner carving machine.

If you buy one, throw a milltek non resonated exhaust on it and you will never get your foot out of the gas. Pure bliss.

I saw around 14mog city and low 20s highway. But I didn't care.

Let me know if you have other questions.

[Turbowned]

Google FSI carbon buildup, I would not want to deal with that on an aging V10... I dunno, I was just never into the early C6, even the facelifted one looks too bland to me.

For $35-40k you can get a 2010+ S4 and it's so much better. Audi states it makes 333bhp it they dyno at 300whp stock. And they average around 23mpg which is impressive for so much performance.
If I wasn't making payments on the BRZ already I would have financed one. I leased one for 6 months under the employee lease program when I worked for Audi and I enjoyed it more than the RS 4, S5 V8, hell just about everything else I test drove, except for the R8 V10 Spyder ;)

[DHall1]

This is interesting because the carbon buildup is the #1 reason I didnt buy a RS4 and or R8 4.2 back in the day. I didnt think about the V10 carbon situation but if its there.....beware.

The carbon buildup on the n/a FSI also had a role in my #2 RS6 decision. Our Cosworth built 4.2tt may be one of the best engines in the last 25 years. No carbon isues in our 4.2. Roland Gumpert is no idiot to select that motor...I do not regret having 2 low mileage RS6s sitting out in my garage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumpert_Apollo

I will 3rd my above post about the B8 S4 and for all the reasons you just listed. Throw an APR tune on that S4 and you got something there. That 3.0T supercharged engine is just a sweet motor.




Google FSI carbon buildup, I would not want to deal with that on an aging V10... I dunno, I was just never into the early C6, even the facelifted one looks too bland to me.

For $35-40k you can get a 2010+ S4 and it's so much better. Audi states it makes 333bhp it they dyno at 300whp stock. And they average around 23mpg which is impressive for so much performance.
If I wasn't making payments on the BRZ already I would have financed one. I leased one for 6 months under the employee lease program when I worked for Audi and I enjoyed it more than the RS 4, S5 V8, hell just about everything else I test drove, except for the R8 V10 Spyder ;)

[DHall1]

Some say.....we know what comes next.

Enjoy this vid and remember what we have under the hood. Watch this from 4.00 and enjoy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU0mqzX3FD8

[ssassc1]

This is interesting because the carbon buildup is the #1 reason I didnt buy a RS4 and or R8 4.2 back in the day. I didnt think about the V10 carbon situation but if its there.....beware.

The carbon buildup on the n/a FSI also had a role in my #2 RS6 decision. Our Cosworth built 4.2tt may be one of the best engines in the last 25 years. Roland Gumpert is no idiot...I do not regret having 2 low mileage RS6s sitting out in my garage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumpert_Apollo

I will 3rd my above post about the B8 S4 and for all the reasons you just listed. Throw an APR tune on that S4 and you got something there. That 3.0T supercharged engine is just a sweet motor.


Totally agree with above statement

I would NEVER buy a Audi with the Direct Injection Engine.

I am good with a friends with a mechanic that works on Audis and he tells me he has lost count of all the DI engines he has pulled manifolds off the clean Carbon on valves etc... Its very time consuming job..

All the DD engines get carbon build up. Turbo 4s, v6s, V8s and yes he has done V10s too. Some as little as 20,000kms

DI are great engines but seriously let down with Carbon Build issues.

Will be sticking with my RS6!!

[ZCD2.7T]

...I will 3rd my above post about the B8 S4 and for all the reasons you just listed. Throw an APR tune on that S4 and you got something there. That 3.0T supercharged engine is just a sweet motor.

My S4 is STaSIS-tuned (ECU tune only - no pulley), and I've run 12.4 @ ~111 mph.

APR/GIAC "stage 2" (tune+pulley) cars run 11.8-12.2 @ 114-117 mph.

Oh and carbon build up is really a non-issue on the 3.0T motor. MIGHT need cleaning somewhere past 100K miles...

[lswing]

Ok, that does it, V10 with carbon buildup can be ugly, not touching this car.

Found some articles from owners that bought new, within 10-15,000 miles began experiencing low power, then misfires. Engine needed thorough cleaning to remove carbon deposits.

Some folks have run these for years, maybe it's the gas, or some engines are more prone to it?

Back to the S4 then, thanks!

[DHall1]

3.0T FTW!

I really should have gone this route B8S4 for my DD instead of the 2nd RS6. But now that the 2nd RS6 is sorted it all worked out in the end.

[DHall1]

Just right up the road.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85015&endYear=2010&modelCode1=S4&showcaseOwnerId=1094532&startYear=2008&makeCode1=AUDI&firstRecord=51&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BAUDI%5BS4%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=350644761&Log=0

[Turbowned]

Go with the S4, trust me you'll be happy. The only thing better on the RS 6 is the power and the name. Skip the 7spd dual clutch and row your own with the 6spd manual. If you go with a Premium Plus make sure it has the sports differential and I also recommend MMI navigation+ and Bang and Olufsen sound.

[lswing]

Looking to stay closer to $20k...automatic for sure, I know...2009 A4, 3.2L, FSI though, only one for sale within 300 miles...

If the link above doesn't work, please copy this link into your browser.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=97405&endYear=2012&listingType=used&engineCode=6CLDR&listingTypes=used&transmissionCode=AUT&transmissionCodes=AUT&mmt=[AUDI[A4[]][]]&modelCode1=A4&sortBy=distanceASC&showcaseOwnerId=65057635&makeCode1=AUDI&startYear=2009&engineCodes=6CLDR&numRecords=100&searchRadius=300&listingId=359557216 (http://click.messages.autotrader.com/?qs=dbc85e6eb898906a1def88113c37190bd39b49065c92f7 8880b4ae11c1724b5cf7e59da16fff340d)

[DHall1]

Well that is a tough one. 20k...but you were looking at a C63 last month?

Are you getting a loan? the difference in monthly is almost nill and the S4 still has warranty.

As a side note, I was going around with Progressive last nite and all my auto/rv policies. I pay $206/6mo for my RS6s. Holy crap that is cheap. Another side plus plus for driving a 10yr/old vehicle. Crap I'm so happy I have two 10yr old RS6s.

34 dollars a month for full coverage and 40/yr for plates. We are right on track here.

[lswing]

Yep, was looking loan and $40k a while back. Don't really want another loan, so thinking simpler, cash around $20k. B5 S4 might be in my direction. The 4.2 V8 feels good and I really enjoyed driving a friends S4 2007 Avant last year.

[DHall1]

Well, the B6-7 S4 4.2 is worse than having the carbon FSI.

Timing chain issues and blown motors. Stay away.

Really the B8 S4 low mileage with warranty and a small loan may be the way to go. Think longer term here and repair exposure.




Yep, was looking loan and $40k a while back. Don't really want another loan, so thinking simpler, cash around $20k. B5 S4 might be in my direction. The 4.2 V8 feels good and I really enjoyed driving a friends S4 2007 Avant last year.

[lswing]

Well, the B7 S4 4.2 is worse than having the carbon FSI.

Timing chain issues and blown motors. Stay away.

Really the B8 S4 low mileage with warranty and a small loan may be the way to go. Think longer term here and repair exposure.

Interesting, good info....thanks!

[vitalian]

Well, the B6-7 S4 4.2 is worse than having the carbon FSI.

Timing chain issues and blown motors. Stay away.

Really the B8 S4 low mileage with warranty and a small loan may be the way to go. Think longer term here and repair exposure.

So does this also mean I should not be considering a pre-2014 S5 coupe? They also have a 4.2L V8 (they switched to the supercharged 3.0 for the coupe very recently, the cabrios have had them for a while).

[ssassc1]

Btw. For some reason the 4.2 FSI is the worst for Carbon Buildup

[SteveKen]

Btw. For some reason the 4.2 FSI is the worst for Carbon Buildup

Could the jury still be out on any of the newer FSI variants, too? Time tested yet?

[G2]

Carbon buildup is a mainly a function of engine temperature, oil type and service interval. The DI motors run hotter and the DI system relies on engine oil to operate.

OEM's are chasing any efficiency benefit to meet EPA emission regs., and hot running engines certainly help achieve that goal. Long term engine reliability is not the focus, just get it out of warranty. And keep the Feds happy by designing emissions system components that'll last forever-- again at the expense of engine durability.

Hot engines, hot oil ( and no oil cooler like the RS6) with 10k mile oil changes at the dealer or quick lube will degrade an engine well before it's time.... (Look at what happened to Mercedes.)

[DHall1]

Yes, stay away from the FSI 4.2 at all costs. I think the 2013 S5 coupe has the 3.0T.

I'm starting to think my RS6s will be staying in my garage for a long, long time. This new crap is going to be ugly in a few years.

I need to import a B5 RS4 and call it good. B5 RS4 and C5 RS6 were two of the best engines made.

We let the EPA and DOT run wild. Now look at what we have.




So does this also mean I should not be considering a pre-2014 S5 coupe? They also have a 4.2L V8 (they switched to the supercharged 3.0 for the coupe very recently, the cabrios have had them for a while).

[lswing]

Yes, stay away from the FSI 4.2 at all costs. I think the 2013 S5 coupe has the 3.0T.

I'm starting to think my RS6s will be staying in my garage for a long, long time. This new crap is going to be ugly in a few years.

I need to import a B5 RS4 and call it good. B5 RS4 and C5 RS6 were two of the best engines made.

We let the EPA and DOT run wild. Now look at what we have.

The RS6 for sale in MA is looking better and better....$12k, plenty left for repairs!

[G2]

Btw. For some reason the 4.2 FSI is the worst for Carbon Buildup

And from what I've recently seen, the worst for engine degradation. As in massive metal particulate matter in the engine oil. Read: engine bearings and timing chains. Terrifying to see on a 30k motor.

Thank the stars my Rs6 doesn't do that, at all. Full additive high SAPS high VI/HTHS spec oil every 5k or less with a high efficiency synthetic oil filter. It's almost ALWAYS about the oil....

[DHall1]

As noted earlier. Longer term for me may include buying a 3rd RS6 as a parts car. This will allow me to keep both my cars for the next 10 years at least.

The parts car needs to be in complete running order and no more than 100k miles. I will park it and use it for parts as time moves on.

The way its going....in 10years both my RS6 will be approaching 100k miles. I think they are reasonable to continue at that point. What the hell.

[G2]

The 4.2 FSI mill, like most modern engines needs extra care, going beyond inadequately OE stated maintenance guidelines.

i also see very similar issues with the non-DI 4.2. But at least it holds more oil than the DI V8, by about 2 qts.

Nearly every Euro car that comes in has oil issues. Have a 745i with secondary air injection issues due to carbon buildup. BMW dealers sometimes replace the cyl. heads for this. Ouch.

i expect similar or worse issues with the 3.0T-FSI( it's really an S...supercharged). It has very high specific output, add'l mechanicals, all ingredients for problems. Hopefully VAG put an oil cooler on it.....among solid engineering and not just
a reboxed older low specific output v-6 with forced induction under the hood.

[ssassc1]

Go with the S4, trust me you'll be happy. The only thing better on the RS 6 is the power and the name. Skip the 7spd dual clutch and row your own with the 6spd manual. If you go with a Premium Plus make sure it has the sports differential and I also recommend MMI navigation+ and Bang and Olufsen sound.

I like the S4. Is it DI? Wonder if it will suffer Carbon Buildup? Too early to tell probably?

[marklar182]

New FSI engines do not have the issue.

The carbon problem with early VAG FSI engines (5.2, 4.2, 2.0T) is that the PCV system had issues, combined with the lack of cooling and lubrication to the intake valves due to the fact fuel is no longer injected into the intake port and poor valve overlap.

Basically the PCV mist would hit the hot intake valves and coke.

New FSI engines have better valve overlap, better PCV, and additional injectors to cool/lube the valves.

[DHall1]

This is interesting.

Define new? Is there a date or has it happened via engine redesign? As in the new? 3.0T? 4.0T?

However, that 3.0T has been around 3-4years right?

How can you fit additional injectors in the FSI platform? Did they put additional injectors in the intake stream again? Seems redundant.

How are they controlling all these additional injectors? My gosh what a nightmare of electronics


New FSI engines do not have the issue.

The carbon problem with early VAG FSI engines (5.2, 4.2, 2.0T) is that the PCV system had issues, combined with the lack of cooling and lubrication to the intake valves due to the fact fuel is no longer injected into the intake port and poor valve overlap.

Basically the PCV mist would hit the hot intake valves and coke.

New FSI engines have better valve overlap, better PCV, and additional injectors to cool/lube the valves.

[marklar182]

Basically, after the B7 A4 and C6 is "new" design.

Yes, injector in the intake.

[lswing]

So I can't buy any Audi that's B6 or older? Still, you see plenty on the road, I know of a few A4's and S4's with 100-150k on the clock and doing fine. So the trick is to find one that is cared for well with regular oil changes? Wonder if our cooler climate helps since this seems to be about heat...

[DHall1]

Were talking FSI here.


So I can't buy any Audi that's B6 or older? Still, you see plenty on the road, I know of a few A4's and S4's with 100-150k on the clock and doing fine. So the trick is to find one that is cared for well with regular oil changes? Wonder if our cooler climate helps since this seems to be about heat...

[DHall1]

Holy crap that is a lot of fuel delivery control to manage.

EPA has mandated no fuel return lines in 2003 which killed the 04 RS6.

How in the hell do you DI fuel into the cylinder and have a second fuel delivery system to inject fuel in the intake stream. Then you have to control two different fuel delivery systems and sources of delivery.

I'aint gonna buy anything like that in the future boys and girls.

EDIT:

Is it a injector at the throttle body source? Rather than in each runner? That would make sense.....kinda like a water meth nozzle in the central path to distribute to all cylinders.


Basically, after the B7 A4 and C6 is "new" design.

Yes, injector in the intake.

[DHall1]

I'm keeping my RS6s thank you very much.

http://www.autocarepro.com/Article/118728/audivw_directinjection_issues_and_carbon_deposits. aspx

Our 2003 RS6's may be the last real standard platform of tested engine design and straight forward fuel, emission, intake, exhaust ect, ect. In a extreme performance perspective....I can still work on everything in this engine and there is very little outside bandaid emission gizmo factored in.

EDIT: Its growing. ;-)

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread

Who woulda thunk.....keeping two RS6's makes more sense than buying new? 35/month for insurance and 40/yr for plates.

Brilliant.

[lswing]

2005 A4 S-line Premium 1.8T....Not FSI with carbon build, or 4.2 with timing chain issues....good?

[DHall1]

This was my gut feeling to fix older FSI engines. To add a meth injector at the central intake/throttle body.

Take a look at this thread and post #10

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2794277

There is even talk of venting PCV to air. Haha, take that EPA.



Holy crap that is a lot of fuel delivery control to manage.

EPA has mandated no fuel return lines in 2003 which killed the 04 RS6.

How in the hell do you DI fuel into the cylinder and have a second fuel delivery system to inject fuel in the intake stream. Then you have to control two different fuel delivery systems and sources of delivery.

I'aint gonna buy anything like that in the future boys and girls.

EDIT:

Is it a injector at the throttle body source? Rather than in each runner? That would make sense.....kinda like a water meth nozzle in the central path to distribute to all cylinders.

[hahnmgh63]

I'll look it up Dave but somewhere I have a copy of the Tech bulletin on the 2.0T FSI engines which got a second set of Injection to keep deposits off the valves. I would assume that the Engineering and design would be incorporated into every VAG FSI engine.

[Turbowned]

Lease a 2014 S4/S5. Done! Hand it back long before it's out of warranty.

[ZCD2.7T]

Here are a bunch of before/after carbon-cleaning photos of various DI Audi engines. Note that the 3.0Tfsi exhibits only a fraction of the build-up seen on the other DI engines. As I said previously, not really an issue on this motor....:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/350285-So-who-has-the-highest-mileage-B8-S4-Carbon-check?p=8735645&viewfull=1#post8735645

[SteveKen]

Here are a bunch of before/after carbon-cleaning photos of various DI Audi engines. Note that the 3.0Tfsi exhibits only a fraction of the build-up seen on the other DI engines. As I said previously, not really an issue on this motor....:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/350285-So-who-has-the-highest-mileage-B8-S4-Carbon-check?p=8735645&viewfull=1#post8735645

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543153_10151333530550124_1910359083_n.jpg

Yikes. That fraction is still to large to give me a warm & fuzzy feeling....

[DHall1]

Buy a mint 30,000 mile RS6 with 3yrs left on the extended warranty. :race:


Lease a 2014 S4/S5. Done! Hand it back long before it's out of warranty.

[ssassc1]

....and here I was thinking the B8 S4 was going to be the eventual replacement for my RS6

Think not!

[4everRS]

I just read through this thread and associated links.

I was glad to have my rs6 before, and now extremely happy about it.

Thanks Dave.

[DHall1]

I think we need to send a Christmas card to GIAC.

Fill it with some fresh dung and our best wishes.

This is a fantastic engine till you put a crap flash on the car. Idiots

Glad it all worked out and I enjoy my Daytona every day.




I just read through this thread and associated links.

I was glad to have my rs6 before, and now extremely happy about it.

Thanks Dave.

[ZCD2.7T]

....and here I was thinking the B8 S4 was going to be the eventual replacement for my RS6

Think not!

Seriously, you guys are hilarious. Your cars are among the least reliable Audis produced in the past decade, and yet you're scared off by a "problem" which has yet to cause any actual issues for any 3.0Tfsi owners (that I'm aware of)? Really??

I'm at 64K trouble free miles so far, and was at the drag strip a couple of weeks ago. Car runs as strong as it ever has, and I've been tuned since new.

If my car needs a $500 carbon cleaning at oh, I dunno, 125K miles, I''ll still be MANY THOUSANDS of dollars ahead in maintenance and repair costs vs. any RS 6 owner at similar mileage.

Don't get me wrong - I love RS 6s, but the B8 S4 is a much better car in every way, as it should be with a decade's worth of further refinement and quality improvements on Audi's part.

[DHall1]

Easy there.....nobody is bashing the current spec S4. I have recommended it to lswing several times. I personally like the 3.0t motor in the S4, A6 and Q5.

Marklar posted some interesting updates as did yourself but I wont call the C5 RS6 among the least reliable in the last 10 years. My #1 has been perfect the last 6 years with not one service issue. Lexus perfect. #3 has needed a transmission and thats it. Lexus perfect.

Now the C5 RS6 is not for everyone but in the right hands its one of the best sedans ever produced and may last well beyond any new crop of offerings.


Seriously, you guys are hilarious. Your cars are among the least reliable Audis produced in the past decade, and yet you're scared off by a "problem" which has yet to cause any actual issues for any 3.0Tfsi owners (that I'm aware of)? Really??

I'm at 64K trouble free miles so far, and was at the drag strip a couple of weeks ago. Car runs as strong as it ever has, and I've been tuned since new.

If my car needs a $500 carbon cleaning at oh, I dunno, 125K miles, I''ll still be MANY THOUSANDS of dollars ahead in maintenance and repair costs vs. any RS 6 owner at similar mileage.

Don't get me wrong - I love RS 6s, but the B8 S4 is a much better car in every way, as it should be with a decade's worth of further refinement and quality improvements on Audi's part.

[MaxRS6]

The bold formatting utilization/placement swayed the argument for me..;0

[DHall1]

Survey says....

If you dont want carbon deposits. Then buy this

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s532/03RSTT/giacchip_zps29e59f6a.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/03RSTT/media/giacchip_zps29e59f6a.jpg.html)

[DHall1]

But watchout for too much of a bad thing....

GIAC FTW!!!! No carbon there.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s532/03RSTT/giaccyl_zps28f50dda.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/03RSTT/media/giaccyl_zps28f50dda.jpg.html)

[ZCD2.7T]

The bold formatting utilization/placement swayed the argument for me..

No argument here - just comments in an attempt to keep things in perspective.

[ssassc1]

Seriously, you guys are hilarious. Your cars are among the least reliable Audis produced in the past decade, and yet you're scared off by a "problem" which has yet to cause any actual issues for any 3.0Tfsi owners (that I'm aware of)? Really??

I'm at 64K trouble free miles so far, and was at the drag strip a couple of weeks ago. Car runs as strong as it ever has, and I've been tuned since new.

If my car needs a $500 carbon cleaning at oh, I dunno, 125K miles, I''ll still be MANY THOUSANDS of dollars ahead in maintenance and repair costs vs. any RS 6 owner at similar mileage.

Don't get me wrong - I love RS 6s, but the B8 S4 is a much better car in every way, as it should be with a decade's worth of further refinement and quality improvements on Audi's part.

Sorry if I sounded a little harsh. I actually do like the B8 S4 and I have no doubts it is a great car!

There just seems to be a systemic "Carbon Issues" with DI engines on Audi cars.

Turns out from evidence that the B8 S4 may suffer carbon issues. Disappointing.

Agree the RS6 can be unreliable and a possible maintenance nightmare at times. But when they are looked after and running right they are a awesome car and in my opinion there is not much out there that is 4 door.. v8TT.. 4x4 and relatively cheap to buy.

[Bdubs]

FWIW, I'm looking at a certified 2010 A6 3.0T with 48k miles right now. It was supposed to be through service for me to look at, but they are having to do a secondary air injection carbon cleaning on the car. I drove it. Didn't notice anything "off" with the car, but it must rough start/idle or something when cold for them to have found the issue (or they are clearing the CEL before I test drive it). Allegedly being more frequent with oil changes (every 3-5k miles) greatly reduces the likelihood of carbon buildup, but my guess is you run into it at some point if you have a direct injection Audi engine (at least that's how I'm looking at ownership).

[lswing]

FWIW, I'm looking at a certified 2010 A6 3.0T with 48k miles right now. It was supposed to be through service for me to look at, but they are having to do a secondary air injection carbon cleaning on the car. I drove it. Didn't notice anything "off" with the car, but it must rough start/idle or something when cold for them to have found the issue (or they are clearing the CEL before I test drive it). Allegedly being more frequent with oil changes (every 3-5k miles) greatly reduces the likelihood of carbon buildup, but my guess is you run into it at some point if you have a direct injection Audi engine (at least that's how I'm looking at ownership).

I think you're right with your suspicions on the car. Do they have service record oil changes? So far that seems like a big difference maker, and something I do anyway...

[DHall1]

Also to note.

Need to control blowby in the engine as best you can. This means highest quality oil and short change intervals.

I have made the change to Quantum Blue from BND/Brian for both my RS6s.

Then, you need to keep carbon out of the intake passages and cylinders as best you can. I use BND Aces IV on all my vehicles including the big ol Cummins I have in the motorhome. I don't know how much it helps because I cant ride in my cylinders down the road but the cars perform better and that is good enough for me. Better performance and more fuel mileage.

Now, if the 3.0t has that intake track spray for fuel this would clearly help. The Aces that is.

I don't work for Aces. I don't make a cent for telling everyone I use the products. I just keep my cars a long time. ;-)



Edit: Funny story....I missed a tank fill up with Aces in #3 and the next morning when I had a wide open on ramp to a 75mph hwy I was able to have some fun. Well, that is until I had ping. Tune was dialed for the fuel octane w/aces and a full tank fill up showed poor fuel quality on the first wot run. I cant leave this 91oct ethanol AZ fast enough.




FWIW, I'm looking at a certified 2010 A6 3.0T with 48k miles right now. It was supposed to be through service for me to look at, but they are having to do a secondary air injection carbon cleaning on the car. I drove it. Didn't notice anything "off" with the car, but it must rough start/idle or something when cold for them to have found the issue (or they are clearing the CEL before I test drive it). Allegedly being more frequent with oil changes (every 3-5k miles) greatly reduces the likelihood of carbon buildup, but my guess is you run into it at some point if you have a direct injection Audi engine (at least that's how I'm looking at ownership).

[G2]

Most people that own very high end cars don't actually drive them much. An RS6 stands out and gets far more miles for the dollar. Personal experience seeing how 911 Gt3's. F360/f430's and other older Ferrari's become like maintaining a helicopter. $6k for timing belts on a 30 year old 328, only worth about 4-5 times that. None are daily drivers...

Compared to the broad array of Euro vehicles I see VAG is not exclusive to various issues, including carbonization. Case in point is a 04 BMW 745, with severe carbon issues that's ruined the cats and requires costly carbon cleaning (dealers are known to remove the heads). Plus major oil leaks that recently racked up $4k at the dealer (and another $5k when I'm done with it). All at 90k miles. Why? From what I can tell it's mostly poor oil maintenance, and a failing PCV system. The heads are known for passing oil at the valve guides (oil issue). Last BMW we saw was a 330, which are known for having throw away engines. I can also pick on Volvo and Saab and Mercedes...

So far Audi has stacked up very well. Use the best oil and change it frequently, especially so on FSI and timing chain engines. I don't expect this debate will ever end, due to a myriad of variables that create a truly "moving target" issue....

[lswing]

Ok, looking at a 2008 A4 S Line with 3.2 FSI and 6 speed auto paddle shifting, 65k miles, clean. Owner says oil has been changed routinely.

I agree FSI could be an issue, many cars have issues though. Seems like the 3.2 would have some pep, will see...

[G2]

Sounds nice. I was impressed with the 3.2FSI in a A6 avant, plenty spunky. And especially so in the v8 S5....

Look at the oil cap and inside the valve cover for excessive buildup.

[ZCD2.7T]

On a related note, Audi's 3.0 Tfsi engine was just awarded a spot on "Ward's 10 best engines" list for the 5th consecutive year:

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/diesels-turbos-dominate-2014-ward-s-10-best-engines