Another meth thread...sorry

[makaveli42]

So I just looked thru almost all 46 threads that came up when I searched "meth". Still never found a definite answer to how much of a gain they give? Several people had them installed and said they will post a dyno update and I never found one? Anyone actually have exact gains from meth in a RS6?

i just got my oil changed today and the performance shop that did it is trying to talk me into a meth kit instead of removing all 4 cats and both resonators! Also they weren't sure if my Viper tune would need redone to accommodate the meth? They strictly deal with APR tunes.

So would meth be better than removing the cats as far as performance goes? Will my tune need redone? And anyone have specific gains with the meth kit? And which kit worked the best (single nozzle, double, triple?). Thanks ahead of time for your input!

[ttboost]

Depends on the kit., and what you run for "meth". On my 996 Turbo, I ran an Aquamist kit (which I recommend) and ran 100% meth and we picked up almost 75whp. With 100% methanol, you add cooling AND octane. With 50/50, most people pickup 35-40 whp...because you can add timing and boost. This must be carefully tuned as it also changes your A/F ratio accordingly.

[lswing]

W/M will stabilize an aggressive tune, and allow a strong tune to perform in warm weather. Dunno how much extra i really get from the wm, but on my moderate tune i was able to put down good numbers on an 85 degree day. Anytime you mess with the exhaust or other i would optimize the tune, the ecu will adjust some on its own. Personally i would add wm before pulling cats, get your tune adjusted either way. Spraying two D05 nozzles on each side of ypipe, have to turn it down in the winter or it bogs some, but again i'm not on the edge with my boost and timing...

50/50 mix for safety.

[na1mt]

Tuning to get max power with pure meth is a risky proposition....ask me how I know. Plus, meth is like $7.00 a gallon so if you are tuned for it as being a percentage of your fuel mix you are going to go through alot and it is going to be expensive. With my new build on my NSX we will be using it only for extra cooling properties as an extra safety. I have an AquaMist HSF-5 system.

[ttboost]

I think Aquamist is the best. I used the older HFS-1 kit. We sprayed 100% meth and it was tuned fairly aggressively, but still safe. Had no interest in blowing up a 996 turbo engine. Drove it hard for over 2 years on the same tune. I had a 1-1/2 gal tank, so it lasted a while. I set it up to spray on IDC, not boost.
I noticed it was VERY consistant. I used to go out and run 60-130's and they would vary by 3-6 tenths due to heat soak. After the meth install, I was always within a tenth or 2...

If I keep my car, I will do it again. We spent a lot of time on the dyno, testing...Not everyones cup of tea, but in my case, pretty much same performance as race fuel and cheaper. Obviously if you get some bad pump gas, it's not as good as a sealed can of fuel, so you lose some timing.

[na1mt]

I personally would rather use it as an added safety and have a second tune for race fuel for when I feel like being an idiot...lol

Especially with the RS6 since if you tune for it and it fails......you're done. Low fluid level is your fail safe but will not protect you if the fuse pops for the pump.

[makaveli42]

Thanks for the feedback! So if I get a wm kit and keep my viper tune...can't I just turn off the pump in the winter and when I'm not driving aggressively so I don't go thru meth like crazy since it is $7/gal

[na1mt]

Yes you can

[lswing]

Devils Own for me, and most brands are adjustable, i'll dig up a pic. I use about a gallon per 500-700 miles, no worry. Spray starts at 7 and hits 100% at 17psi for me over the winter. Custom 2.5 gallon tank in trunk...I once used a gallon over 250 miles, was a hell of a drive last summer, probably 50 runs from 60-110:)

[ttboost]

I personally would rather use it as an added safety and have a second tune for race fuel for when I feel like being an idiot...lol

Especially with the RS6 since if you tune for it and it fails......you're done. Low fluid level is your fail safe but will not protect you if the fuse pops for the pump.

I agree somewhat, but my old HSF-1 kit had a flow sensor as well, so 2 levels of safety, both bumping you back to wastegate in the event of a meth mishap...all the safety's are wired back into your ECU for optimal protection. Works like a champ. No it won't protect you from "stupid", but it does what it is supposed to do...and I've tested them all!!!

[ttboost]

Thanks for the feedback! So if I get a wm kit and keep my viper tune...can't I just turn off the pump in the winter and when I'm not driving aggressively so I don't go thru meth like crazy since it is $7/gal

Again, depends on the kit. I have only used the Aquamist kit, and it is wired directly into your ECU, so no way to defeat it. Anything you do to "trick" it, or turning it "off", will give you wastegate spring only. A pain I know, but really the safest way.
When we were experimenting, I wanted to turn it "off" to dyno MS109 only...no way. Had to run something...either 100% meth (a no no on race gas) 50/50 or full water. I ended up with 50/50 and MS109. Only made 19 more whp than regular pump and meth. So for me and my application, pump and meth was a no brainer over the race gas.

[na1mt]

My HSF-5 kit also had the flow sensor......Everything was displayed on the DDD-3 gauge/controller which had an on/off trigger for the meth. I actually used that to switch my tunes from 10psi no meth and 18 psi with meth. The flow sensor on the gauge actually showed that the meth was flowing full force even after the fuse had blown. Everything was wired back into my AEM standalone.

[ttboost]

Hmm... maybe I'm confused....well I'm definitely confused...but I was referring to the actual flow sensor in the engine bay, not the LED's on the gauge...
I had this old gauge...I think we are talking about the same thing though...when your system was off, you were running on 10psi wastegate..

13664

[na1mt]

No, I have an AEM boost controller. So, when the meth was on at the gauge you have there it triggered an 18psi tune in my ECU. I believe it worked by utilizing a nitrous map. When the gauge was off, it was the standard tune which was only 10psi. The flow sensor in the engine bay triggers the led lights on the gauge from left to right indicating flow, right?

[ttboost]

No, I have an AEM boost controller. So, when the meth was on at the gauge you have there it triggered an 18psi tune in my ECU. I believe it worked by utilizing a nitrous map. When the gauge was off, it was the standard tune which was only 10psi. The flow sensor in the engine bay triggers the led lights on the gauge from left to right indicating flow, right?


Ahh got it.

Not sure if the flow sensor actually activated the lights on the gauge, but I do know...no flow=wastegate boost..just like low level (with float switch in tank) = waste gate boost. I think the lights on the gauge were for tuning the meth flow...kind of like a "gain" control...it's been a while now...

[na1mt]

It's been a while for me as we'll....2 years and 7 months to be more exact. But as I recall the led lights would mimic the ramping up of the flow, mine would start to spray at around 5-8psi of boost and increase. It was first tuned that way using meth as a 30% fuel mixture which was stupid as I went through 1 1/2 gallons driving roughly 3 miles to the dyno and putting down 2 pulls.

I would rather just use it as an extra safety than actually tune for it and depend on it....although it is a pain in the ass to mix it 50/50 rather than just dumping it in there straight up.

[ttboost]

It's been a while for me as we'll....2 years and 7 months to be more exact. But as I recall the led lights would mimic the ramping up of the flow, mine would start to spray at around 5-8psi of boost and increase. It was first tuned that way using meth as a 30% fuel mixture which was stupid as I went through 1 1/2 gallons driving roughly 3 miles to the dyno and putting down 2 pulls.

I would rather just use it as an extra safety than actually tune for it and depend on it....although it is a pain in the ass to mix it 50/50 rather than just dumping it in there straight up.


I elected for the 100% because I am lazy and didn't feel like mixing it all the time...I was going to use windshield washer fluid., but not really enough meth content for what I wanted.

Usage was the main reason we went with IDC instead of boost application. Mine started at around 40%duty cycle and sprayed from there. I really found it fairly "economical". I think I used about a 5gal can every couple months, which was maybe 3000-4000 miles or so. That included a Texas Mile trip, 10-15 dragstrip passes and a milllion 60-130 runs....

I only used in on my 996 turbo, but if I keep my RS6, I will eventually put it on too. My guess is we can get another 50-60whp or so...stock turbos are small, so expectations are low...very happy where I am now with the 6 speed, hope to finish tuning next week...

[na1mt]

Mine should be on its way back to me next week as well. All that is left is to degree the cams install motor and tuning. Should put down between 800-850 with race fuel.

[makaveli42]

I'm going to get this kit with dual nozzles and the 2qt tank... Will Devils tank fit in the side trunk space? Or are those of you with the tanks there using a different brand of tank?
the performance shop I go to wants to mount a tank in the engine bay, they swear theres room? But I'd rather have it in the trunk.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/universal/305-dvc-30-stage-2a.html

[lswing]

Been a solid setup for me, two D05 nozzles is plenty. Opted for the 2.5 gallon trunk mount myself, but already had a small battery so it fit in perfect. 4everRS did a side trunk mount. I personally wouldnt want anything else in the engine bay. I'll digup some pics...

[lswing]

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/24230-Water-Meth-Kit-installed-and-running!?highlight=

[ttboost]

Mine should be on its way back to me next week as well. All that is left is to degree the cams install motor and tuning. Should put down between 800-850 with race fuel.

Your RS6?

[JSRS6]

Your RS6?

Haha, no. His NSX.

[na1mt]

Yes, my NSX...just in time for nice weather.

[makaveli42]

lswing, where did they run the lines thru? Under the car or thru the interior? I think I can actually install it myself if I can find the boost lines... But I'm not a fan on hoses under the car. Did it with a Zex kit before and didnt like it running that way.

[lswing]

Interior, shop did install. There's a good amount of wiring, and we had the y-pipe out to tap it. Be cautious with the boost reference tap line. We ended up putting the controller in the fuse box area, can't see it for better or worse...