trying to decide: sell 2001 911 C2 and replace with 2003 RS6?

[golfmanlk]

found what appears to be a nice RS6 with 85K miles. Audi dealer says it's 1 owner with all service performed there. Never had issues with suspension (but when I drove it it kinda felt a little clunky - especially when hitting bumps in road) or transmission.

realize the RS6 will cost me more to operate and maintain than the 911, but, I certainly don't want to have to replace TQ ($4-$5K?) or turbos.

had an 01 S4 Avant a few yrs ago and turbos failed at 100K. cost me $10K to upgrade to RS6 turbos, and everything that goes along with it. Was awesome having a 500 HP wagon, but, so painful to fund the build.

So, am I crazy to want to trade the 911 for the RS6?
Do I need to worry about replacing turbos? TQ? (it's never been chipped says the dealer)

Should I look for an 07 S6 instead (they don't seem to be too much more expensive than the 03 RS6)?

Thx for any advice...

[DHall1]

Tread very carefully

85k is danger land for the 6 if the common faults have not been addressed.

Trust dealer salesperson as far as you can kick them. Or anyone selling a 6 for that matter.

Scrap the DRC or find one with KWv3s

At the bare minimum you must run VagCom data logs to determine if the car is running properly, boosting properly and has the correct A/F ratio under boost.
Even if you had to pay a performance shop 400 dollars to do so.

Dont make a 25k mistake.

That said, a properly sorted 6 with the proper stage 1 tune and TCU tune will last 150k or more with basic maint and say one trans and turbo job.

As for S6? Complete different animal. The cars are not in the same category. Drive a properly sorted Stage 1 RS6 and you will never want anything else. Ever




found what appears to be a nice RS6 with 85K miles. Audi dealer says it's 1 owner with all service performed there. Never had issues with suspension (but when I drove it it kinda felt a little clunky - especially when hitting bumps in road) or transmission.

realize the RS6 will cost me more to operate and maintain than the 911, but, I certainly don't want to have to replace TQ ($4-$5K?) or turbos.

had an 01 S4 Avant a few yrs ago and turbos failed at 100K. cost me $10K to upgrade to RS6 turbos, and everything that goes along with it. Was awesome having a 500 HP wagon, but, so painful to fund the build.

So, am I crazy to want to trade the 911 for the RS6?
Do I need to worry about replacing turbos? TQ? (it's never been chipped says the dealer)

Should I look for an 07 S6 instead (they don't seem to be too much more expensive than the 03 RS6)?

Thx for any advice...

[lswing]

I'll add to that ^^^^...

Torque Converter could very well need to be replaced in the next 5-10k, trans might last a while if you don't chip it. TC is $3k, Trans is $7k, if done separate.

I've heard of people having turbos last to 150k, I replaced mine when the engine was out, and they were in darn good shape at 90k...

That crappy suspension you're feeling is the drc which is prone to fail. Can be replaced for $1k or so at cheapest, works great!

[905084]

911 vs. C5 RS6?? All depends on the mission....want to take the wife and your friends to the symphony or just want to take the wife? Completely different missions....putting the hitch on my RS this weekend so I can haul a piano.....or haul ass.....if it was just me, no wife, no kids, no snow, I'd do the 911....but it's not.

[mik15]

i'd say the same thing, if you don't need the 4 doors of the RS6 or you're not into fast limousines then don't swap the 911

[golfmanlk]

dealer called me tonight... i must be the only person who's appeared to really want this car... and he can tell (i'm a bad poker player). if I thought the maintenance would be similar, I'd jump on this RS6. However, the thought of plopping down $20K, then in 5-10K miles buying a TQ and/or tranny and/or turbos, plus coilovers, plus the normal crap that breaks on these cars at 85K miles, plus the timing belt job.... argh... not sure my pockets are that deep (in fact I am certain they're not). but, wow, what an awesome car that RS6 is.... so intrigued by everything about it (except the automatic transmission) might have to sneak out to the dealership tomorrow and ask to see the maintenance file. might give me some good insight.

[mik15]

get a good warranty and you're covered!

[audiprotn]

get a good warranty and you're covered!
This

Majority goes with Fidelity Platinum coverage, but it might be really expensive.
Bobbyrs6 says he got some other extended warranty that covers almost everything and much cheaper.

Not to be negative, but if transmission/TC/DRC have not been replaced by Audi/Previous owner, it WILL be your turn.

[G2]

Keep in mind the dealers only do factory recommended service. This car needs much more than that to live....

Have it checked out by an independent shop- have ALL the fluids looked at (then changed).

Most warranty companies have strict maintenance requirements that add up to extra costs and do everything they can to deny coverage. Get a good check out and do the maintenances instead.

........I drove a 03 911 Carrera 4S 6Mt last week, with only 53K miles. Nice ride quality...precise steering....noisy tires/noisy cabin (drive it everyday? Unlikely)......sporty in a straight line but NOT fast by any means. Probably lots cheaper to maintain, however.......

Could I take the dogs to the groomers and load up at Cost-co in a 911. Not realistic.

One car that can rule them all? It's an RS6. Nothing on the road I'd want more with more versatility (OK: Euro spec RS6/RS4 Avant).

Good luck!!

[papadoc]

Really depends on how long you wish to keep the RS6, if you go that route. The transmission was not meant to handle the power of this engine, and will ultimately fail. I've replaced mine at 128K miles, a good run, with both a TCU and ECU chip. I would guess that most of these with that mileage will need the transmission overhauled. That said, I expect to enjoy the ride for a few more years, knowing that it still surprises many cars whose owners think they can smoke a 4 door sedan. Our cars are the ultimate Q ship, and you will not be disappointed with it.

[kday]

I think the transmission is the major variable. The turbos aren't a common failure, and the DRC can be dealt with in various ways. (A low dollar option would be to swap in the suspension from a A6 4.2 I think -- though I haven't heard of anyone doing that.) The timing belt job is not all that much different than on any other car.

The transmission isn't a sure thing, and usually fails gradually if it does. My car has been throwing the torque converter code since before I bought it in 2011, and it's still fine (aside from the occasional clunk) at 107k. I've had plenty of time to accumulate the parts needed to do the manual transmission swap. In fact I've been putting it off because the car doesn't need it...

[AndrewNC]

I really think it depends on where you are at in life and how much you are using your 996. I previously had my 996 for about 7yrs before I bought my RS6 back in '08, and by the time I sold the Porsche, I was driving it less than 1,500 miles a year. Now, I am an Audi guy at heart, and I had lusted after an RS6 since I saw my first one on the showroom floor back in '04. I would agree with everyone else, in that I would look for a lower mileage example or one with an impeccable maintenance history and have a thorough PPI performed before you even think of buying it. So why did you get rid of your b5?

[golfmanlk]

I really think it depends on where you are at in life and how much you are using your 996. I previously had my 996 for about 7yrs before I bought my RS6 back in '08, and by the time I sold the Porsche, I was driving it less than 1,500 miles a year. Now, I am an Audi guy at heart, and I had lusted after an RS6 since I saw my first one on the showroom floor back in '04. I would agree with everyone else, in that I would look for a lower mileage example or one with an impeccable maintenance history and have a thorough PPI performed before you even think of buying it. So why did you get rid of your b5?

Not sure why I sold the B5... love hate relationship. It was completely sorted (save for a BBK) and was filled with OEM RS4 interior goodies (full carbon, RS4 air leather steering wheel and shifter, RS4 door handles, etc) in addition to Rs6 turbos & fueling, etc. Some commercial pilot from KY saw it on the boards and made me an offer even though it was not for sale. Figured it would be my only way to get into a 996. I miss the Avant and am also an Audi guy at heart (B5 S4 sedan and Avant, 1995 S6 Avant and several other non turbo Audis). As much as I love the RS6, probably does not make sense for me given all the negatives/warnings I've heard over the past week. I just don't want to pour tons of cash into a 10 yr old car...

thx for all the help, advice and comments!

[AndrewNC]

Not sure why I sold the B5... love hate relationship. It was completely sorted (save for a BBK) and was filled with OEM RS4 interior goodies (full carbon, RS4 air leather steering wheel and shifter, RS4 door handles, etc) in addition to Rs6 turbos & fueling, etc. Some commercial pilot from KY saw it on the boards and made me an offer even though it was not for sale. Figured it would be my only way to get into a 996. I miss the Avant and am also an Audi guy at heart (B5 S4 sedan and Avant, 1995 S6 Avant and several other non turbo Audis). As much as I love the RS6, probably does not make sense for me given all the negatives/warnings I've heard over the past week. I just don't want to pour tons of cash into a 10 yr old car...

thx for all the help, advice and comments!

Now I can only speak from my own experience and that of the 3 other owners I know personally, but I would consider the cars to be very reliable in stock form. As long as you find a clean, unmodified/molested example I don't believe you will have any issues. The turbos are bullet proof compared to the B5 and, as Kevin stated, transmission issues can be detected prior to purchase and failure is usually a slow process. During my 4+ years of ownership, I've only had a few leaks (valve covers, propshaft) and a $35 dollar N80 valve to replace. Each service interval is more expensive, but still easy to accomplish for someone who is familiar with basic Audi maintenance. If you can do an APB timing belt or valve cover gasket, you can do them on the BCY.

[G2]

Speaking from professional experience, and plenty of it- at least in terms of generalities- nearly all failures are oil related. Every once in a blue moon I see a pure mechanical failure not apparently related to oil problems. Typically this is the guy drop clutching his low end car, or a 4x4 owner who tows a lot and doesn't do maintenance.....

I take reasonable issue with some statements regarding the engineering aspect of the RS6, and what I think applies to nearly all German cars. To say a "transmission is not meant to handle" the power of these cars is certainly not accurate. Transmission suppliers state the rated torque, for example. We all know the RS6 can easily make 500lbs of torque when the car came with 415lbs (likely intentionally underrated to meet transmission requirements). Most turbo cars make more torque than HP; to me it's apparent Audi dialed back the torque (a lot). In my 20+ years of quasi-engineering turbo cars, the numbers to me speak loudly. Look at the newer VW's DSG trans- maxed at 258lb/ft torque. Some engines make too much and can't use the snazzy dual clutch system or CVT's.

My personal RS6 while well maintained (newer turbo's, etc) by some of the highest end dealers in the country (LA area) and lightly modified by a well known local LA Audi speed shop, but completely overlooked basic needs. These were the driveline fluids. Thankfully the trans was repaired for leaking in about '08- so it got some fresh fluid. Said speed shop said they have 700+hp RS6's running around with NOS w/o trans problems. What that exactly means is beyond me (how long, what service was done, was the trans already replaced, did it have a cooler added, etc).

Soon as I bought it, in when the absolute best oils I could buy. And not a moment too soon, either. Everything was in dire need of service (except the engine which was meticulously maintained; 3K LOF's with high end synthetic). When I had the fancy Audi tuner shop 'PPI" the car (which the didn't) and overcharge me for a glorified LOF ($300), and failed to check the trans fluid (thier "lead" tech didn't know how, nor would listen to me as I've done it many times), after asking twice (once to confirm it was 'OK'), drove 1,000 miles home. Thankfully no trans problems, but moral of the story is you've got to be your own advocate and be sure the car is serviced the way you feel it should be done- NOT based on OEM recommendations, which are usually not adequate for reliablity much past the warranty period. Looks good on paper, lowers "cost of ownership", but costs more later.

AUDI does not recommend service of the driveline fluids, as do most Euro cars. It may be fine to 75 or even 150K miles (depends on power and torque and heat), but eventually will fail. Factor increased performance and one can expect perhaps 1/2 the fluid life and 2x the problems. Factor in regional weather conditions: LA or Florida= HOT, which will "cook" fluids sooner (and leather). Luckily for me my car came from Torrance, which I was suprised to learn is usually quite cool and foggy (plus tinted windows, so the leather is still nice) compared to other areas. Lots of factors play into reliablity and longevity, but basic maintenance will always be king.

Do the oils/lubes often in anything torque rich like a turbo V8 and sleep (reasonably) well! Just be sure to do a complete 100% fluid purge on the trans soon as you get one (expect to use about 12-16 qts). Just did a 4spd MB SL500, spec is 9qts, but needed 16qts of Amsoil ATF to clean out the contaminaion and used the Amsoil trans/engine flush (new filter and gaskets of course).

Much as I like Porsches, just can't see a 911 being anything more than a very nice toy or high zoot commuter. Probably great as a 2nd or 3rd car, or for a Bachelor on the hunt. I also toyed with getting a 911TT (water pumper, not air cooled), but I'm not rich enough to afford that and a nice daily driver and a nice car for the wife and a decent truck and several project cars.

Sorry for the rant, I have cars that need me (or vice versa!), and must get back into the shop!

[Sulli]

I just joined as I was looking for some info on adjusting the KW v3 coil overs on my new C5 RS6 and stumbled across this thread.
Coincidently I have just swapped my 996 Carrera C2 for the rs6 as I needed more room for the kids, and have previously owned a modded B6 S4, so can give some comparisons on the 2 cars.
Firstly, although the 996 is slightly cheaper to run day to day on fuel, it does have similar bank breaking potential issues, such as IMS and RMS issues, as well as scored bores, and some end up with the need for a rebuild amounting to up to £7k. So compared to the RS6 slush box, fairly similar potential costs.
The 996 certainly has more connection to the road, mechanical grip and natural handling characteristics, and is a joy to push to the limit. The RS6 is quicker in a straight line, and the 4wd provides more grip, but less natural feel. As a track toy, the 996 is loads more fun if you like to test yourself, horses for courses really.
If you get an RS6 you will marvel at the sheer grunt and push from the turbos and the seemingly endless power. If you love driving and always like to test yourself and feel connected to the road, you. May miss that a little, or lose your license very quickly.
For me though, not only in terms of practicality, but everything else, the RS6 is definitely for me the better car.

the 996:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/4CA90A6E-FF57-4634-83CF-0E6AFC96E682-5907-00000571FCAD7F64_zps1ceb274c.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/CF33C51E-05F9-4D55-AA18-00B51C230BA9-5907-00000571E7A0A40E_zps71406e2b.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/911/image_zps1fd0f121.jpg

the RS:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/DBEE448F-1336-4E5F-848F-DA23564AFA2A-572-0000006410B1C88B_zps528cbf2a.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/CE8784B1-984B-40F7-9576-E007C6432FEC-572-0000006418FE4766_zpsb3a83977.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/AE8B111C-BA72-4E3A-BEF4-9A1864021017-572-00000063FD582E4C_zps2da49f31.jpg
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/Sulli69/846B2862-537A-464C-9AD3-5AE20DF6F50D-572-000000642111DB2F_zpsb349c34d.jpg