FS: 'Special Sauce'

[mgoblue]

Yes, this is Stephen's (speedtrapped) old car, the build is well documented, but interested parties can contact me and I'd be happy to give them the long story. I had a full PPI done before I purchased it, the dealer found nothing of issue, in fact the service writer kept me on the phone for over 15 minutes telling me how perfect and beautiful it was. Upon my purchase of the vehicle I had the car dyno'd and found that the vehicle was in fact running lean (again, something documented on these forums), so I contacted EPL. Several months later my appointment date was finally up, and took it to CT. I instructed them to go over the engine thoroughly to track down the issue, and any other issues. They did full leak down/compression, and changed anything that needed it (which was only, the plugs and diverter valve vacuum lines). They found that the fuel pump wasn't operating properly, and that the injectors were partially clogged. A new fuel pump, and custom fuel injectors were installed. Ultimately the vehicle made 487 hp and 607 tq on their dyno; that was about two months, and about 1500 miles ago.

The car is my daily driver, not raced, or even really pushed hard, and it has been dead reliable, I have never had an unexpected issue with it, and I don't foresee that the next owner will either. The build has very few miles on it, and it was done right, and done with the best parts available. The only reason I'm selling is to get a CTSV Wagon.

Chassis - 84,xxx miles
Engine/Tranny - 63,xxx miles
Mileage on build - 15,xxx miles

mods:

-DBR Stage 3 turbos (hybrid GT30s)/intake/downpipes/100 cell cats
-milltek exhaust
-Level 10 custom built tranny and torque converter
-Wagner side mount intercoolers and carbon fiber shrouds
-EPL custom fuel injectors
-EPL custom dyno tune
-KW.3 coilovers
-Stern engine mounts
-Apikol rear diff and engine mounts
-Snow stage 3 meth injection
-BBS RS-GT wheels without a scratch on them - the wheels/tires have about 10,000 miles on them
-Frozen front\rear rotors and pads - they also have about 10,000 miles on them

A couple other additional items:
-remote start
-carbon fiber trim
-custom steering wheel paddles
-Clarion head unit
-Pirelli Sottozero snow tires on the OEM wheels - they have about 1000 miles on them

I can be reached via PM, or at todd@ homefirstmortgage dot com for additional photos. The weather has not cooperated as of late, so here is one from the end of last year (I no longer have the CF chin spoiler on)

Price: $33,000 (if you're looking to finance it, you can do so with Pentagon Federal CU up to the NADA retail value at 1.49% / 60 months)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/jeepandm/IMG_0347.jpg

[Vdub]

Then you'll have to spend some bucks.... 487bhp is way to less for a GT30 setup...

[ben916]

GLWS


Then you'll have to spend some bucks.... 487bhp is way to less for a GT30 setup...

This CLEARLY isn't the B5 A4/S4 forum of Audizine, take the crappy comments elsewhere...

[speedtrapped]

Well said Ben. I owned the car prior, too my kknowledge the DBR turbos are hybrid of the OEM RS6, bigger turbine, iirc. That said, I spent alot of $$ on this car, as Todd has added to total. This car is in need of nothin, and I am sad that I can't buy her. Someone want to buy my Porsche? And 71' Bronco, then Todd and I can talk. Todd GLWS.

[lswing]

Then you'll have to spend some bucks.... 487bhp is way to less for a GT30 setup...

Numbers are 487/607 on a DYNO, add 20% and you get the BHP...I believe it was a Mustang dyno so the reading is on the honest/lower side...

I pulled 421/452 on a Mustang dyno this summer and my car feels like a rocket, can only image, sweet ride, want!

[Vdub]

GLWS



This CLEARLY isn't the B5 A4/S4 forum of Audizine, take the crappy comments elsewhere...

Please count to 10 and don't shoot..

Strange answer for someone with 4000 posts.. it was more meant as a saying, if i read the specs lik cats (and methanol injection)etc and the only extra bhp is 36, MEASURED on a dyno, a normal (good)RS6 would do 450Bhp easily..
I know that because i have to deal with a superflow 4wd dyno every week..

TS his car is completely modified according his list.. why would you pay that ammount of money(org owner) for only 36BHP increase..


Edit:

Most Dyno's measure Wheel HP and is calculated into Engine HP, that Engine HP is also what Audi specifies on the sales folder/spec sheet.
If TS is writing Wheel HP then it is slightly better at approx 530Bhp Engine HP

[hahnmgh63]

I remember the Dyno runs and it was WHP. Most of us I think prefer to use WHP since that is what we read right off the Dyno, although we also want to know what Dyno and what the temp, humidity, etc.. are. Nobody, including Audi has ever posted a definitive answer to what would be the best WHP to Crank HP conversion for our cars and I do understand it can be a little different car to car. Unless I Dyno my car, then pull the engine and Dyno it, I will never know what my Drivetrain losses are going to be. That said, where is the Dyno you work at Vdub, I wouldn't mind putting my car on it?

[na1mt]

The car put down 607 ft lbs through an auto tranny.....that is an incredible improvement over stock.

[DHall1]

I just plain love this car. GLWS

Stephen did a fine job short of fixing the fueling issue and that was becuase his shop just couldnt figure it out. Now that that is fixed this should be a garage queen that comes out to play on summer days and it will last 10 more years.

Ben-let me go get some popcorn.

[4everRS]

Please count to 10 and don't shoot..

Strange answer for someone with 4000 posts.. it was more meant as a saying, if i read the specs lik cats (and methanol injection)etc and the only extra bhp is 36, MEASURED on a dyno, a normal (good)RS6 would do 450Bhp easily..
I know that because i have to deal with a superflow 4wd dyno every week..

TS his car is completely modified according his list.. why would you pay that ammount of money(org owner) for only 36BHP increase..


Edit:

Most Dyno's measure Wheel HP and is calculated into Engine HP, that Engine HP is also what Audi specifies on the sales folder/spec sheet.
If TS is writing Wheel HP then it is slightly better at approx 530Bhp Engine HP

I need clarification on a couple things.

With all your knowledge, how did you calculate 487 to 530? I'm sure you understand, it's considered 'drivetrain loss' meaning you start the calculation with the crank hp. So if you take 600 and multiply by .8 (assuming 20% loss, which is debatable) you get 480 at the wheels. Of course you can work it the other way, but lets keep this simple.

Also, as already mentioned, this mustang dyno # is awhp. Not crank. It's also known that Tony's dyno is know to show low numbers when compared to others.

And just a side note, your credentials have yet to be determined or verified. As far as any of us know, you're expeirience lies in slamming Volkswagens to the ground. Nothing more.

[mgoblue]

I was under the assumption 25-30% drivetrain loss was more accurate, never the less the numbers I posted where at the wheels. So you're talking over 600 HP and 750 tqs at the wheels.

[blmlozz]

I was under the assumption 25-30% drivetrain loss was more accurate, never the less the numbers I posted where at the wheels. So you're talking over 600 HP and 750 tqs at the wheels.
25-30 seems more correct.

I'm pretty sure the 01E looses 20-22 in the B5 S4, and we're talking about a 24HP with longer axles and a longer driveshaft.


ugh.. that's horrible.

[DHall1]

mgoblue,

Could you measure the current suspension ride height on your car? Center of the hub to fender lip front and rear would be great. I would like to get some idea on everyones KW heights before installing mine next month.

[lswing]

Over the past few years, 18-20% seems to be the estimate, bust out the calc, add it up, and realize no matter what the exact number this is one badass rs6...and I think i can raise hell in mine, lordy!

//end

[lswing]

mgoblue,

Could you measure the current suspension ride height on your car? Center of the hub to fender lip front and rear would be great. I would like to get some idea on everyones KW heights before installing mine next month.

D, guy here in town running the kw's also if more numbers are needed...

[DHall1]

Yeah, along with a side and profile shot. I will be running RS4 19x9s on both cars and 255/35/19s on both as well. I will start a new thread so we can build some data for everyone.


D, guy here in town running the kw's also if more numbers are needed...

[lswing]

Yeah, along with a side and profile shot. I will be running RS4 19x9s on both cars and 255/35/19s on both as well. I will start a new thread so we can build some data for everyone.

Good, G2 has messed with wheel/tire/height fit a decent amount, I'll try and give him a shout...

[ttboost]

On EPL's Mustang dyno, my RS6 made 317/360 BONE STOCK. This is what almost EVERY bone stock RS6 makes on that dyno. With a EPL flash, my car made 400/460. Special Sauce has RS6 hybrid turbos (which add about 30-40whp alone at the same boost) some intake piping and a decent fuel system now, which likely accounts for the additional 75-80whp.
I THINK what is being suggested is that these hybrid RS6 turbos have been known to make 500-600whp on B5 S4's, so why isn't our V8 car making 600-700? Good question. The likely answer is injectors and boost. Special Sauce is probably only making 20-22psi or 1.3-1.5bar? These big power S4's are pushing 30-35psi or 2-2.4bar.
I'm very curious what my car will make now with the 6 speed, and I hope to baseline it to see what we actually gain BACK for driveline loss.

To the OP, good luck with sale...pretty special car.

[mgoblue]

On EPL's Mustang dyno, my RS6 made 317/360 BONE STOCK. This is what almost EVERY bone stock RS6 makes on that dyno. With a EPL flash, my car made 400/460. Special Sauce has RS6 hybrid turbos (which add about 30-40whp alone at the same boost) some intake piping and a decent fuel system now, which likely accounts for the additional 75-80whp.
I THINK what is being suggested is that these hybrid RS6 turbos have been known to make 500-600whp on B5 S4's, so why isn't our V8 car making 600-700? Good question. The likely answer is injectors and boost. Special Sauce is probably only making 20-22psi or 1.3-1.5bar? These big power S4's are pushing 30-35psi or 2-2.4bar.
I'm very curious what my car will make now with the 6 speed, and I hope to baseline it to see what we actually gain BACK for driveline loss.

To the OP, good luck with sale...pretty special car.

Thank you! I'd have to go dig up some old emails from Rich, but I think we're only in the mid-high teens for boost, 16-17 comes to mind.

[mgoblue]

mgoblue,

Could you measure the current suspension ride height on your car? Center of the hub to fender lip front and rear would be great. I would like to get some idea on everyones KW heights before installing mine next month.

Certainly, let me just finish up these pancakes for the kids!

[mgoblue]

Todd GLWS.

Thanks Stephen,

[hahnmgh63]

Dave, my car with KWV3's is sitting at 13 1/2" front and about 13 5/8" rear. Actually about a 1/16" higher than that on the drivers side but I had it weight balanced for my weight (220lbs), driver only.

[speedtrapped]

Todd,
pare u buying new Vagon? Find one off lease or owner can't stomach gas mileage, the diff in price is like $25k plus.

[MaxRS6]

Dave, my car with KWV3's is sitting at 13 1/2" front and about 13 5/8" rear..

FWIW...Mine is identical

[Vdub]

@4everRS


And just a side note, your credentials have yet to be determined or verified. As far as any of us know, you're expeirience lies in slamming Volkswagens to the ground. Nothing more

Unfortunatly a new user starts with 0 posts, you've seen the picture of the Passat probably acccording to your writing? There was nothing original anymore at that Passat, only the bare-body was factory-standard and the doors.
Ive modified the complete car from a 99 1.9TDI with a AT4 to a 2003 1.9TDI with TT5 with 195Bhp incl CAN etc.

I own the "Dutch" Passatforum for 7 years now(i have 24.000 posts) and we always listen to new people instead of saying that he can only slam VW's.. there are more people living outside the USA that are a litte bit experienced in Audi/VW (VAG-group cars)
If people outside the USA arent welcome here then they have to adjust the registrationform with only USA as registration-country.


Ontopic again:
On our Dyno mostly the BHP-loss between WHP en EHP is 20BHP with a FWD and approx 45BHP with AWD cars. We normaly only tune VAG-group cars here and some Race-cars from other brands.

Here a dyno-result from my 3.6 V8 engine:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-y4zUGX3SHr4/UN8vqZlH-WI/AAAAAAAAIu0/zqBdVAU_Pf0/s800/uitdraai.jpg

[ttboost]

Should have STARTED with that post..LOL...

[ttboost]

Our dyno's here in the US seem to cost us more like 90-150whp...
My RS6 (450BHP stock) dyno'd 317awhp on a Mustang dyno. That's almost 30% DL loss...

[Vdub]

Our dyno's here in the US seem to cost us more like 90-150whp...
My RS6 (450BHP stock) dyno'd 317awhp on a Mustang dyno. That's almost 30% DL loss...
Thats weird. I will look for a RS6 dynosheet next week.

[ttboost]

There are many others that use OTHER dyno's and see 340-380whp, so I'm sure it is the dyno and it's settings....Sort of making the obvious point that you should always stick to the same dyno when you make your changes...
I don't really care what the actual number is, as long as the trap speed is there...

[SteveKen]

Mine in stock form was 323 awhp 334 lb-ft. Only issue was likely leaking intercoolers.

Sorry for the faded colors, fwiw. . .

<img src="http://www.kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/misc/rs6_auto_trans_dyno.JPG">

[ttboost]

That looks about right...mine was lower, but I had the stock TC that was acting funny...what dyno Steve?

[Vdub]

@ttboost
Yes and no, there is a difference between different Dyno's of course, BUT it should be a difference of 10BHP plus or minus.. not more...

All the dyno's are callibrated.. OK, it are humans that are callibrating but if you have 10 new Golf 5 GTI's for example, they ALL do between 200 and 220BHP(engine).
We have made more than 28.000 runs on this Dyno and compared to some other Dyno's here they all performe practicly the same. We are also driving on a track in a Diesel Cup and therefore somtimes the TC wants the car in for a complete checkup.
The car goes to a dyno the TC wants and the difference(we may have 198BHP) is less then 1BHP.. on the "Test-dyno".

What whe also know is that the RS4 B7, with the V8 FSI isnt performing very well according the Audi Specs.. 99 out of 100 wont make their 420BHP, most of the time its between 380 en 400.
In the VAG-scene/cars we have here in the EU sometimes 10-15 different engine types/models for e.g. a Golf. Comparing all those(same/equal) cars on the dyno, we know how much 1HP is callibrated.

Maybe a Mustang performs amazing on our Dyno, i dont know because they are not sold that much here.

[ttboost]

I have never seen ONLY a 10whp +or- swing from dyno to dyno. EPL has dyno'd many RS6's on their dyno and they are all within 10whp of each other, so yes..their dyno is consistant. The "Mustang" to which I referred is the brand of Dynomometer. It's an AWD chassis dyno...

[Vdub]

OK, but what if they measure a Golf 5 GTI 200BHP std on that Dyno, then it should have less power the VW promises..

[ttboost]

I think we are going down a road with no return here...I don't think any manufacturer "promises" any sort of power output. They just "claim" power outputs. I think it's a known fact that you physically cannot get the same power at the wheels as you have at the crankshaft, so yes, of course you will get less power than "promised".

I think we dumped enough on the OP's for sale thread...
Sorry guys...

[Vdub]

Ive made a new topic with some dyno's so i will not mess-up here anymore..

[lswing]

Based on user input, lets say people are averaging 325whp stock, book says brake hp is 450. So we're looking at 28% drivetrain loss. Regarless seems that a percentage makes much more sense than saying x car losses x power. The amount lost changes as your hp changes in the engine yes, or is the drag of the rs6 tc and trans/driveline always ~125hp?

[mgoblue]

Todd,
pare u buying new Vagon? Find one off lease or owner can't stomach gas mileage, the diff in price is like $25k plus.

I never buy new, I'll definitely be buying preowned. I picked up a 06' land cruiser for the winter so hopefully the RS6 sells soon and I'll have time to wait for the right one.

[mgoblue]

Ontopic again:


The topic is actually my for sale post, so you can please move this discussion elsewhere. But thanks for the bumps, I guess.

[lswing]

Maybe a Mustang performs amazing on our Dyno, i dont know because they are not sold that much here.

You do realize Mustang is the brand of dyno, right? Dynojet seems to be the other here in the states...

Last post, sorry, back to awesome car for sale...:revs:

[speedtrapped]

Want to wait 16 months? ;)

[ttboost]

Want to wait 16 months? ;)


I'm sure there will be a pretty blue one with a 6 speed available by then...probably making the same power...

[na1mt]

Want to wait 16 months? ;)

If the end buyout is acceptable, why not just transfer lease and be done for the both of you. That way OP has a monthly payment rather than one big payout until his car sells, which it definitely will. You get out of the V and he gets into one tastefully modded right off the bat.

[mgoblue]

If the end buyout is acceptable, why not just transfer lease and be done for the both of you. That way OP has a monthly payment rather than one big payout until his car sells, which it definitely will. You get out of the V and he gets into one tastefully modded right off the bat.

if only his was white....

[mgoblue]

I found a V that I don't want to miss on, and my wife will skin my alive if I have 5 cars; price drop to $30,000

[speedtrapped]

must resist the urge.... Bronco sold, 996tt still 4 sale...if it was gone, I could...... must resist.

[ttboost]

Come on man...unzip that mattress...let it out...

[mgoblue]

must resist the urge.... Bronco sold, 996tt still 4 sale...if it was gone, I could...... must resist.
you sold the bronco?! Had you finished it?

[ben916]

Bronco sold

WHA?!?!?!? I was going to call you on this .... damn

[speedtrapped]

pending as of today..... when check is in hand, then its sold. Todd, no I never did paint job, I did body harness. But stuff was left, and If I waited till summer, I could of done better, but promised wife I was going to lose some cars. If this guy comes thru, he is buying it for $11k.

[mgoblue]

pending as of today..... when check is in hand, then its sold. Todd, no I never did paint job, I did body harness. But stuff was left, and If I waited till summer, I could of done better, but promised wife I was going to lose some cars. If this guy comes thru, he is buying it for $11k.

That's a good price, I was looking hard at Bronco's before I settled on a FJ40 this summer.

[ttboost]

Restoring an old one or fixing up a newer one?

[mgoblue]

Restoring an old one or fixing up a newer one?

The one I bought was built a few years back by a guy and his son to pound around the Rubicon with. It's a '68, but it has a V8, lockers, 35's, etc, it's definitely not a show queen, but it's not a POS either. I got the rust of the floors and put a bedliner product on it, and the plan is to repaint the body this spring.

[Bigglezworth]

I'd very much like to see actual 1/4 times vs. power claims. All of the previous posts about dyno power are useless since every single machine varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and even then vary slightly from machine to machine for that same manufacturer. All you fellow posters need to quit using a dyno sheet to tout the performance of your rides. It means squat. Dyno's are a method to baseline your ride and then through adjustments in your ride, confirm or negate additional performance gains. Nothing more - nothing less. Physics speaks. I had a dyno done on my one beast here and the AWHP # was only 365. Safe to say that no matter what type of calculator you use, 365whp doesn't push a nominal 4500lbs (w/ driver) down the 1320 in sub 12 seconds.... A more than suffient example of why you can't rely on dyno #'s.

There are many modified beasts for fellow members. Some more modified than the next; and then some with obscene mods. Show me a trap speed over a set distance - or a time over that same distance - and that speaks volumes on the performance of the engine. The numbers presented in the ads description suggest this car is a mid 11 second runner at sea level which would make it possibly the quickest example of our ride out there! I am not in a position to purchase a third beast, nor replace one of the two here, but if for nothing other than discussion purposes it would be nice to substantiate the physical performance of the ride vs referring to what I view as "just a number" from your local dyno shop.

[speedtrapped]

Not my car anymore...... But I can add this, the DBR stage 3 kit is bigger turbos, fueling, and a tune. It's pretty well documented, especially in the B5 S4 crowd, Tony tunes for insane power, and builds them as well. His mustang dyno is a heartbreaker. I believe their are tons of videos with pulls on other cars, etc. I would bet my $ this is one of the fastest if not fastest, that is NOT a stripped down drag racer. My .02cents

[mgoblue]

I really thought it'd be gone by now....bump

[ttboost]

Yeah..truly an a$$ for every seat..and you can'y find your a$$...

[mgoblue]

To the top

[nistah]

To the top
How does Sunday work to show me the car?

[mgoblue]

I'm out of town this weekend, any other weekend though.

edit...just noticed the date, you probably meant last weekend, sorry about that, parents in town and two kids with the flu...I missed the post.

[mgoblue]

To the top!

[CarbonFibre]

Funny I'm in a 996TT as well and stumbled upon this beast. I wish it were on the West Coast.

[nistah]

I'm out of town this weekend, any other weekend though.

edit...just noticed the date, you probably meant last weekend, sorry about that, parents in town and two kids with the flu...I missed the post.

Hey I am in NYC this weekend but will be back next weekend def wanna check out special sauce....let me know your availability cheers

[mgoblue]

Funny I'm in a 996TT as well and stumbled upon this beast. I wish it were on the West Coast.

It's not hard to get it there!

[peiserg]

fwiw i beleive my rs6 made 320 awhp/340awtq stock, then 370/420 with my OCT tune, milltek cats/exhaust.

[mgoblue]

I don't know why I can't update the original post....but I can't. New price, $28,000 without the snow tires.

[mgoblue]

^^^^^^^^^^

[mgoblue]

back to the top

[mgoblue]

Send me offers, I'd like to sell this week

[mgoblue]

pending sale, gave it away on ebay :nana:

[Bigglezworth]

Saw the listing. Just don't need a third. Damn. Great opportunity for anyone getting in to these cars.

[SteveKen]

pending sale, gave it away on ebay :nana:

I missed the listing. What did it end up selling for?

[na1mt]

Looks like $25k

[mgoblue]

Car didn't sell, still available.

[ttboost]

Wow..from almost a month ago., and still didn't happen? Bum buyer?

[nistah]

I sold my beast exactly one week ago and now all I can think about in addition to the the money sitting in my bank account is that special sauce is still on the market!!!!

[mgoblue]

She gone! Headed to Boston