GIAC Software for RS6 ecu and tcu (Dyno Inside)

[J.Moss]

Hello Everyone,

GIAC now has software for the RS6.

The engine and tiptronic software must be purchased together as the large torque increase can cause the Tip ecu to go into safety mod without changes.

336.4 wheel horsepower stock.
378.8 wheel horsepower with chip.
About 506 crank horsepower.

309.6 wheel torque stock.
387.2 wheel torque with chip.
518 crank torque.

These power number were attained using California 91 octane fuel.

Please feel free to email or call with any questions.:bow:

[Nordschleife]

Jeff

Can you explain - the gearbox going into 'safety mode', please?

Also please note torque is measured in Ft Lb, not Lb-Ft.

Finally, if you check the difference between the DIN and SAE bhp definitions, I think you'll find that you are closer to 500 bhp (SAE), which will be the figure you are working with as you are measuring torque in Ft Lb!

Thanks

R+C

[Speed Technik]

The O.CT software on 93 octane on a Dynapac makes 411whp and 438 tq. Just for comparison.

All interested RS6 owner may contact us directly no matter where in the US you are.

Brian Rosenberg
Speed Technik
203-229-0590
www.speedsporttechnik.net
brian@speedsporttechnik.net

[BBGT2]

Nice numbers either way, Speedtechink I will be contacting you shortly.

Bajo:addict:

[GmbHouse]

How does a car chipped by GIAC lose 25% of it's hp through the driveline and the O.CT chipped car only 20% (515 hp on 94 octane fuel at the crank)? The driveline loss seems way too low (or GIAC overstates it's crank hp). Duke it out boys.

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Jeff

Can you explain - the gearbox going into 'safety mode', please?

Also please note torque is measured in Ft Lb, not Lb-Ft.

Finally, if you check the difference between the DIN and SAE bhp definitions, I think you'll find that you are closer to 500 bhp (SAE), which will be the figure you are working with as you are measuring torque in Ft Lb!

Thanks

R+C

Hello Nordschleife,

The engine computer and the trans computer talk to each other to determine shifting speed, firmness, rpm, etc... One of the outputs is a calculation of torque. The TCU has a limit when exceeded will put it into a safety mode. I have not witnessed this in an RS6, but in other cars it will lock the car into 3rd gear untill a restart, or when the dtc's are erased.

Where did I use LB-ft?

All these crank numbers that come off an engine dyno are just calculation based off of a stock car. We are much more concerned about improvements from base.

Thanks for your interest. Let me know if you have further questions.

Jeff

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by Speed Technik
The O.CT software on 93 octane on a Dynapac makes 411whp and 438 tq. Just for comparison.

All interested RS6 owner may contact us directly no matter where in the US you are.

Brian Rosenberg
Speed Technik
203-229-0590
www.speedsporttechnik.net
brian@speedsporttechnik.net

Hello Brian,

Different dyno, gas and car. Makes comparisons difficult.

Jeff

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by GmbHouse
How does a car chipped by GIAC lose 25% of it's hp through the driveline and the O.CT chipped car only 20% (515 hp on 94 octane fuel at the crank)? The driveline loss seems way too low (or GIAC overstates it's crank hp). Duke it out boys.

No need for the dukes. We cannot compare the numbers or the losses between the two.

We dyno'd a stock car and got our base numbers. And then tuned away and arrived at where we were comfortable.

The calculation for crank horsepower is based off of what a stock RS6 is rated at by Audi vs. what we achieved. This is an educated guess as we all know that the car could be making more or less than rated.

As far as another car making more wheel horsepower, on a different dyno, under different conditions, with better fuel...
You as the consumer will take a look and decide.

If you decide to try our software, We offer a 30 day money back on the parts and software.

Jeff

[GmbHouse]

Jeff - I actually thought O.CT was overstating their wheel hp since you would have very little motivation to understate yours. I was also giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding fuel. If they were running their 91 octane program they claim to produce 500 hp at the crank, which makes the driveline loss even less. And you did, after all, provide a dyno for yours.

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by GmbHouse
Jeff - I actually thought O.CT was overstating their wheel hp since you would have very little motivation to understate yours. I was also giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding fuel. If they were running their 91 octane program they claim to produce 500 hp at the crank, which makes the driveline loss even less. And you did, after all, provide a dyno for yours.

Thanks for clearing that up. Sometimes these enviornments can be very adversarial.

Good luck to you. Let me know if I can be of service.

Jeff

[milkandjuice]

Are your products available outside the US?

Dru

[Erik]

Originally posted by milkandjuice
Are your products available outside the US?


What is available in Australia? :confused:

[Nordschleife]

Sorry, Correction
lb ft IS correct - brain fade!

[Nordschleife]

Jeff
See my comments below:


Originally posted by J.Moss
Hello Nordschleife,

The engine computer and the trans computer talk to each other to determine shifting speed, firmness, rpm, etc... One of the outputs is a calculation of torque. The TCU has a limit when exceeded will put it into a safety mode. I have not witnessed this in an RS6, but in other cars it will lock the car into 3rd gear untill a restart, or when the dtc's are erased.

In practice, the RS6 does not shut down the engine when the gearbox is abused, I've run the cars with over 800 NM (580 lb ft) of torque and you get some very unpleasant shifts from the gearbox, it is not straight forward to reprogram around the basic flaws in the box and its original programming. This is ok for prolonged high speed running as you only change gears on your in and out laps, the rest of the time you are riding the banking in top.


All these crank numbers that come off an engine dyno are just calculation based off of a stock car. We are much more concerned about improvements from base.

Based on your figures, the actual 'calculated' crank horsepower is 500 bhp SAE. As standard the RS6 comes with 444 bhp SAE, the DIN figure is not used in the US.

All this rather begs the question, what crank horsepower does the car you used as a base line actually have? After running in, identical engines can vary in power by up to 15%. Now a population with a mean value of 444 bhp plus/minus 7.5%, is not a good candidate for accurate extrapolation when you are calculating transmission loss and don't know whether the car in question has 411 or 477 crank horsepower. This is one reason you see so many different 'transmission loss' percentages being quoted by tuners and their customers.
A further problem, peculiar to dynomometers which use rollers, as opposed to the hydraulic type, is slippage between the wheels and the rollers, did you mount slicks on the car you tested, if you did not, your 'transmission losses' would have been greater.

And of course, you did make all the required environmental corrections - temperature, humidity, altitude, barometric pressure?

Where is all this leading us, well you claim, understanderbly, that you are making an educated guess when you are calculating crank horsepower, well, I hope you can see from the above, that this is an uneducated guess, and should not be made.

Recently I had reason to have an engine tested, I sent the car back to the factory, they removed the engine from the car and put it on the brake. This way we were able to have an educated discussion about the engine's horsepower.

I suggest that anybody in the serious tuning business might like to test their development engine on a brake, that way a lot of uncertainty is removed, and the exprtession 'educated guess' might reasonably be applied.

You are correct in suggesting that dyno figures should be used for comparative purposes, the problem is in persuading customers of this fact. Remember, unscrupulous tuners may charge large sums of money for little or no benefit and mask this by applying unrealistic corrections to the calculated data before printing it out.

Thanks for your interest. Let me know if you have further questions.

Jeff

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by milkandjuice
Are your products available outside the US?

Dru

Hello Dru,

Here is a link to GIAC's current dealers outside of the US.

If you cannot find what you need there please feel free to contact me.

If you are interested in purchasing software and will be shipping your ecu I would recommend finding out the ecu part numbers and letting whatever dealer you decide to use know what it is.

Jeff

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by Erik
What is available in Australia? :confused:

Hello Erik,

There is an Aussie dealer. Check here for info:
http://giacusa.com/giac/sales.php?car=au&table_qry=yes&dealers=dealers_and_ppartners&r=intern&mn_img=main

[J.Moss]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Jeff
See my comments below:


In practice, the RS6 does not shut down the engine when the gearbox is abused, I've run the cars with over 800 NM (580 lb ft) of torque and you get some very unpleasant shifts from the gearbox, it is not straight forward to reprogram around the basic flaws in the box and its original programming. This is ok for prolonged high speed running as you only change gears on your in and out laps, the rest of the time you are riding the banking in top.

We have the ability to crank up the torque. We wanted a streetable package that shifted well and behaved as an improved factory offering. When or if we get a really aggressive client who really wants to push it without concern for potential breakage we can.

As for the issues of "Crank" horsepower. I really dislike doing any kind of funny math to give figures. But with that said the market demands a number. And all of the competitors have there own claims.
If it were entirely up to me the only numbers anyone would see would be the as tested raw data. On the same car, under the same conditions. I hope that everyone understands that we could line up 5 different dynos and have different numbers. With hopefully the percentage of improvement being the only constant.

I am on the same page with you on the engine dyno. But it is unrealistic to test all configurations this way. Although it is the only real way to arrive at real crank numbers that are not just calculations.

I hope no-one thinks we have played with the calculations! We (Torque-Factory) offer a no hassle 30 day money back guarantee on the software and have for a number of years.

Have a good day N.

Jeff






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[milkandjuice]

Mtm stuff is about all thats available here, just want to look at other stuff before trying anything. I am doin a custom exhaust, and some new piping, along with hopefully recartridged turboes, and dunno about the management side of things.

Unichip works well here but I haven't seen one on a rs6, probably cause they don't do the gearbox. But I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks

Dru

[J.Moss]

Hello Dru,

Most of the basic upgrades you listed except for the new turbos are not a problem.

New turbos will likely require specific software, which we cannot offer you. Our geographic difference being the biggest problem.

If I can be off assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Jeff