Engine out - what preventive work should be done??

[mik15]

i am getting ready for taking the engine out this winter and would like to get a consistent list of the items that should be replaced whilst i have the opportunity! I know this has been discussed on many topics, but i was thinking of doing a full list and then make it a sticky, this is what i have in mind so far:

1. Torque converter(the main reason)
2. Complete overhaul of the gearbox(still debating on this one)
3. EGT sensors - 077998124(kit, contains both)
4. O2 sensors - 1K0998262AB x 4
5. Valve cover gaskets - 077198025A x 2 + cam chain tensioner gaskets - 026103085D x 4/ 077198217 x 2
6. oil cooler pipe(i got the bufkin one)
7. turbos gaskets(should i?)
8. any hose/gasket that looks tired
9. spark plugs
10. accessories belt
11. auxiliary water pump
12. alternator, AC compressor, starter(can these be checked?)

please let me know what else should we add and i will added to the list above! I know that there are many things, probably, that will fail at some point, but as you know money is most of the times an issue, so even though we can list all the items, let's try to highlight the important ones!

I would like to ask one of the admins to help me to be able to edit this first post, so we can have the list at the beginning of the topic to make it easy to read for future reference!

Thanks a lot guys!

[4everRS]

Turbo studs and nuts.
Check steering racks bolts.

[na1mt]

Timing belt

[Elevens]

Did myTC only to have my gearbox let loose on me a few months later and had to repull the engine. Also l had the Turbo's rebuilt by Scrollproducts as a further preventive measure. Obviously more money but worth it in the long run to have the Gearbox and Turbo's rebuilt. Everything else I think you've just about covered.

[mik15]

-i'd say that the timing belt should be changed if it's due or close by, in my case was done less than 15k miles ago...
-steering rack bolts, definitely a must have
- not sure though about rebuilding the turbos, i was thinking of replacing the gaskets, the studs and nuts
- overhauling the gearbox, from what i noticed by comparing the users on rs6.com vs rs246.com, US vs Europe, it looks like that in most of the cases the GB died after the TC was replaced with non OEM one(which is the common thing done in US), i think this has to do with the modified stall speed which compared to the stock one does not allow any or less slippage on the TC, therefore all the stress is being transmitted to the GB which of course fails due to wear and tear. This is only my conclusion and understanding, i have no evidence to prove it, just statistics done on my own by researching these two forums, i have an OEM new TC ready and will probably go with that one, i'll be quite happy if it lasts another 70k miles as the original one, it serves my purpose very well as i don't track/drag race the car! However, this is very arguable and i am still at the point where i don't know yet what route to go!

[lswing]

Looks like you've got it all covered plus some extra. I did the turbo rebuild at 92k when engine was pulled. I was surprised at the good condition of the old ones, just a little play in the impeller shaft, tiny oil leak, they would have gone to 125-150k I bet. Now I do kind of wish I had upgraded them to a hybrid bigger impeller, but you'll want the beefed up trans for that extra power. $1k for rebuild, $2k for full upgrade, Scroll, quality was excellent, so was service.

Cam tension seals, add that on, I believe I have that right. We looked over all hoses, looked good. Valve cover gasket, Bufkin pipe, worn engine mounts. All IC hoses, silicon with better clamps, inspect old IC's. Cheers!

[kevin]

All the above, then start an 01E trust fund for when your trans takes a crap on you.

[lswing]

All the above, then start an 01E trust fund for when your trans takes a crap on you.

$7k on a good day...one day I hope to get it done...later than sooner as I'm investing in a few other projects now...

Edit; $7-8k for beefed up auto trans, shipping, labor...which I happen to really like, just needs to be stronger...

[mik15]

so the engine is now out...

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ivctc1.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/x6k1tz.jpg


http://i48.tinypic.com/242e8tg.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2rx8abq.jpg

and look at her so said :(, it really brakes my heart to see it like this but hopefully it will be back on its feet soon enough !
First impression when i saw the engine out was, wow, this thing is really big, i"ve seen other Audi engines out, a regular 4.2 A8 was one of them, and it didn't seem so big and complicated as this one, even the mech said it is indeed impressive! Now i can actually see how tight is everything there and how well has all been thought when designed to fit the small engine compartment space, even though from maintenance point of view is a biatch!

Besides the regular things which were on my list, we discovered some other small issues, engine mounts seem to have some cracks, though i get no error on VCDS, should i go ahead and replace it as well? Can they be replaced with the engine on?

To remove the gearbox from the engine it looks like the turbos along with the exhaust manifolds must be removed first, therefore my mech wants to change all the turbo seals and studs, manifold gaskets and studs/nuts, so on...is this how it is supposed to be done?

It will definetely cost me more that i have anticipated :D !

Any advices you might have please do let me know!
I hope, if we get all the parts in time, that the car will be back on the road within the next couple of weeks!

[fbatwork]

I think it is definitely the most complicated system I have ever seen!

[905084]

I'm right behind you so let me know what you do.....repositioned the lift today for the pull.

Great pics...scares me to death....

[mik15]

it is scary to be honest, i trust my mech as he did many engine pulls/rebuild on Audi and Cayenne's, but even so he was impressed with this big plant and wants to take it easy to put all back together the way it was, this is the first time on my car's life the engine is out, and i am also very careful to details so i want as well to have everything back together as factory did, hopefully will be ok at the end!

Basically, the main reason i did this is to change the torque converter and because of that i've decided to change the EGT, O2, valve cover gaskets, oil cooler pipe(Bufkin pipe), spark plugs and all the other little gaskets/hoses that show signs of wear or that my mech recommends changing while engine is out! We've also discovered that the engine mounts are a bit cracked, so we're gonna change those too plus all the turbo seals and studs, exhaust manifold gaskets/studs as they need to be removed in order to separate the GB from the engine and it's not recommended to use the old ones! Already this job is costing me more than i have anticipated, but now that i've opened Pandora's box i can't pull back anymore, can only go forward :) !

[905084]

Pretty much....wife1 is begging me not to do this....I would recommend doing the trans rebuild along with all the rest.

[mik15]

i am afraid of rebuilding it here, i drove another 2 RS6 with rebuilt GB and none was the same as a stock one, though they don't slip but both had some issues...issues you can live with it, i guess... one of them has a rougher gear change from 1st to 2nd gear, not too bad but noticeable and the other one something similar. I tested a 3rd one while it was on the car after its been refurbished, this one i have it now as a spare, and it has a rough gear change from 4th to 5th, so all these not so good experiences put me off...mine doesn't slip so i hope that by changing the TC will be ok, i don't track it, just regular driving with some sporty driving from time to time...

[905084]

As long as you don't mind the extra 3k to pull it if it lunches out in the next 2 years. Both of mine are now toast and I want to do it all while I'm there.

[mik15]

if it's gonna last for 2,3 more years i'll be happy with it, by then maybe the prices on the OEM ones re manufactured will drop and will fit one of those for the sake of warranty and ZF support!

[SteveKen]

I don't see that the suction jet pump was mentioned. I'd look into replacing this if you remove the intake. i thing there's a writeup on the forum (by p3u ?) on where it's located, etc...

[mik15]

it's been replaced about a year ago by Audi when the brakes decided to quit on me :), thanks for the tip!

[905084]

How much you figure into it when it is all done? Parts and labor?

[mik15]

TBH i don't really know an exact figure as i bought most of the parts in time, however i still have to buy some that i didn't expect to be need it, so only for these extra ones it will be at least another $1K...overall, including labor, i guess it must be around min. $3,5K .

[gregoryindiana]

1. Torque converter(the main reason)
2. Complete overhaul of the gearbox(still debating on this one)
3. EGT sensors - 077998124(kit, contains both)
4. O2 sensors - 1K0998262AB x 4
5. Valve cover gaskets - 077198025A x 2 + cam chain tensioner gaskets - 026103085D x 4/ 077198217 x 2
6. oil cooler pipe(i got the bufkin one)
7. turbos gaskets(should i?)
8. any hose/gasket that looks tired
9. spark plugs
10. accessories belt
11. auxiliary water pump
12. alternator, AC compressor, starter(can these be checked?)



I just got my car back yesterday from extensive work similar to yours.

First off, my thanks to Tozo for valuable free advice, talking me out of having him rebuild my transmission when I prophylactically had my torque converter overhauled by ACE.

Second, big thanks to Andre at Advanced Converter Engineering for a great job and a fast turnaround on my unit. Apparently he is in the midst of a run of 6 or 7 RS6 torque converter jobs in the last few months.

As some may recall, this all started when a minor rear end collision left me with minimal superficial rear bumper damage, but also a Check Engine light. This was ultimately traced back to one of the O2 sensors which contacted the transmission in the hit, leaving it nonfunctional.

Their insurance company paid for the engine and transmission pull and the single O2 sensor. I paid for the torque converter, the other 3 O2 sensors, the 2 EGT sensors,both valve cover gaskets, the Bufkin pipe, the spark plugs, and the generic "anything else that looks like it needs it". At about 50k miles, only a few lengths of vacuum hoses needed replaced.

I did NOT do the turbos gaskets, or the auxiliary water pump. It looked fine, with no leaks. The cam chain tensioner gaskets, the accessory belt, and the timing belt, along with the thermostat and water pump, were done just last year; my 3rd timing belt done by time, rather than by mileage.

The trans fluid was effectively changed simply by the R&R of the torque converter. Didn't do the trans pan gasket or the trans filter/screen. That is accessible, I am told, for later when needed.

[mik15]

thanks for the good info you've added here! My mech says he can't remove the gearbox from the engine unless he takes apart the turbos and exhaust manifold, therefore the need to replace those gaskets, mine doesn't leak either, but he tells me he wants to change it if these parts have to be removed, maybe someone who has already done this by themselves can clarify this issues...the gaskets aren't a big issue,, they're cheap, the problem for me is that the parts aren't available at the dealer so we have to wait about 2 weeks to get it...btw, can someone help me out with the turbos studs/gaskets p/n and also how many are required?

[905084]

Just ordered a bunch of parts from FCPEuro for my pull. They had the exhaust manifold gaskets and I'm sure they could FedEx you a pair. Talked with Streamline Industries here in Salt Lake about doing my trans. $2200 for labor and they don't pull the motor. Said they had done 2. Since I don't get to do all the little stuff I decided to do this.

What day 1 looks like.

13548

BTW, I didn't see intercoolers mentioned. You might want to fix them up if they are oily and leaking.

[gregoryindiana]

BTW, I didn't see intercoolers mentioned. You might want to fix them up if they are oily and leaking.

Didn't mention intercoolers because my tech said they are easily done without engine out. I have a pair to install, probably in the summer (Wagner)

[mik15]

work is still in progress, unfortunately is a slow progress due to lack of parts which must be brought from Germany, i have managed to get some of them but i am still missing the turbos gaskets, studs and nuts which will most likely get here, best case scenario, at the end of the week or beginning of next week! Here are some shots:

13549135571355613555135541355313552135511355013558

my mech likes to add a bit of sealant all over the new gaskets in order to fill in any remaining gaps, that is his practice for a long time and he says is very good as sometimes the gaskets might not be perfect, and especially with this engine where chaning such parts is not an easy job he doesn't want to take any chances! He didn't want to use the Reinz gaskets for the valve covers i had it bought and made me buy the original ones as after he installed one of them it looked too soft after tightening the studs and were expanding too much under pressure :) !

I like how everything looks under the valve covers, very clean and no oil sludge or any debris, all is so clean that you could have your lunch there, all services were done using the original Castrol or Liqui-Moly(or Lubro-Moly as you know it in US)!

Below you may see what those f***ers at Audi did when they replaced my jet suction pump about a year ago, they're so incredibly stupid, i don't know how the heck did they get the job and why nobody checks what they're doing! Basically my car has been running for almost 1 year without the secondary cooling pump and after-run pump, because the dick heads cut off the wiring! Once again, they proved me why everybody here is so against Audi and their sales figures are less than half compared with BMW and Mercedes in this region, they're all scared about the poor quality maintenance we get from them, this really made me very angry and i am gonna and talk to the Service Manager, which happens to be a German guy, and file a complain against the a*s who did this!

http://i48.tinypic.com/2hga9fl.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2eklngn.jpg

I can only say Thank God they didn't forget a nut in the intake manifold as they did to another customer with an Audi A8 and screwed up his engine....horror stories!

[4everRS]

That is unbelievable. I am speechless.

[Brav]

holy crap!!!! how is that possible?

[Elevens]

Oh My God!! That came from the Dealer? Thank God my Dealer (Coral Springs Audi) is a little more competent than that, and I use the Dealer for warranty work only anyway. I Still say there is nothing better than a Well experienced Indy with a reputation to Keep up. So far your people look quite competent. Good luck with the remainder of the work............

[mik15]

i trust the guy doing the work now, most of the maintenance on the car has been done by him since i bought it and never had any issues with the jobs he did, only couple of times i went to Audi and you saw what they did...:( .

[mik15]

she's almost ready, a few more things to put back and hopefully within couple of days she'll be out running again, it's been a month so far and i really miss her :rs6kiss: . My mech is working slowly and i didn't want to chase him to speed up as he's doing a fantastic job, he's paying a lot of attention to small details that even i would overlook sometimes, i couldn't be happier with the way he works even at a slower pace. Next step is to crank up the engine after he disconnects the fuel pumps just to build up oil pressure and feed the turbos and then will fire it up and install the carrier for good and head out for a test drive, this is his plan :) ! Keep my fingers crossed that all works out ok after this major surgery !

[mik15]

finally the Beast is now running free on the streets again :), it took 5 weeks but the feeling i have now is unique, it made the wait worth!
So, the big parts that have been changed were the Torque Converter, 4 x O2, 2 x EGT, coolant temperature sensor, 3 x engine mounts, steering pump, oil cooler pipe(used the Bufkin one), valve cover gaskets, chain tensioner gaskets, turbo seals and other various seals, nuts, studs, sensors....and it all started because of the TC :) .

The ST coilovers are now on the car as well and TBH, i couldn't be happier with the way they perform so far, i've only done 130 miles since i picked it up last night, but it feels great! It's just a bit firmer than the DRC(at least the DRC i had which wasn't in its best days) but still does very well when cornering, overall i am really happy with the ST so far. Still need to adjust the height as it is now at the same level as with the DRC, i want to lower a bit the rear and then do the alignment!

Gearbox, this was a real concern to me as i didn't want to rebuild it, as it seemed ok to me with no slipping apart from the TC! With the new TC, i can definitely feel the difference, first of all when doing the 50mph test in 5th gear there is no slipping or downshifting to 4th and then back to 5ht as it used to do due to RPM going up a few hundreds revs., second of all it looks like on the highway the ATF temperature is lower than before and the TC goes into TC Closed status very quickly, unlike before when it took a long time to lock up or to not even pass the intermediate phase! Again, i am happy with the GB as well, i just hope it will last a couple of years :) !

A small shadow would be a misfiring on cylinder 5 at idling which doesn't occur all the time, i think it might have to do with the spark plugs, i didn't get the OEM ones from Audi, but the NGK PR7Q ones, i'll have to check the coil and the spark plug gap!

Over-overall, i fell in love again with this car, it is amazing and it puts again a huge smile on my face, it's really unbelievable how an almost 10 year old car can make me feel, sublime!!! :rs6kiss::rs6kiss::rs6kiss::rs6kiss::rs6kiss::rs6k iss:

[jtmdmd1]

I got mine back about 2 weeks ago from getting the TC (ACE rebuild), EGTs, O2 sensors, turbo gaskets & seals, exhaust gaskets, oil level sensor, axle boots, O-rings, etc done. I replaced OEM pads with Hawk HPS pads- they had been squealing & making a dust mess the entire 5000 mi they had been on the car- big difference.

My car had been gone for about 5 weeks also (it seems like everything takes 4-6 weeks on this car) & I had been driving a brown 2001 Buick LeSabre this whole time. I almost had to learn how to drive again after I got my car back. It really does put a big smile on your face!

Hopefully I'm good for a while since I had the 75,000 mi timing belt, etc service done before Christmas & have new rotors & pads all the way around. Everything is running & shifting well. I've spent enough on it in the 10 months I've had it to almost buy another car, but its been worth it- nothing else close for ~ $30,000!

[mik15]

+1, i hope too i will now enjoy the car for a long time without any major issues! I've just finished adjusting the suspension on the rear but i think i'll have to raise a bit more in the future as it's still settling down...the front however i got it right from the beginning...i'll post tomorrow some pictures!

How do you find the hawks? i replaced my OEM with some TRW which are horrible, they squeal like you've never heard before...cheap pads, lesson learned! I am now looking to replace it asap!

[jtmdmd1]

The HPS have been great so far- no noise & no dust- the OEM would be black just driving around the house after washing- its been ~ 2 weeks since wash & install & they still look decent, & I was embarrassed to pull up to a stop light or drive-thru because of the scream. They seem to stop well, but I haven't had a chance to really test them yet. Weekend after next I am going to do the Tail of the Dragon & the Cherohala Skyway so I'll let you know how they perform after that- I may need new brakes. I hope the weather is good that weekend!! So far I am pleased with them.

[mik15]

here's a couple of pictures freshly taken, for now is as low as i wanna go, i think it will get a bit lower after a while since i guess they're still settling down, i like it :) !

http://i47.tinypic.com/izrf5s.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2wh3sz5.jpg

[mik15]

The HPS have been great so far- no noise & no dust- the OEM would be black just driving around the house after washing- its been ~ 2 weeks since wash & install & they still look decent, & I was embarrassed to pull up to a stop light or drive-thru because of the scream. They seem to stop well, but I haven't had a chance to really test them yet. Weekend after next I am going to do the Tail of the Dragon & the Cherohala Skyway so I'll let you know how they perform after that- I may need new brakes. I hope the weather is good that weekend!! So far I am pleased with them.

any feedback on the HPS? i've just ordered mine and it looks like they come w/o the wear sensor, can i use the one on the old pads? the old pads are still good so the sensor is ok, will it fit?

[905084]

any feedback on the HPS? i've just ordered mine and it looks like they come w/o the wear sensor, can i use the one on the old pads? the old pads are still good so the sensor is ok, will it fit?

Sensor is imbedded into the pad......

[mik15]

then i need to buy a sensor as well i guess....does it come as a separate part?

[lswing]

Mine came with the pads, hard wired in, i believe. mik, your car is about as overhauled as mine, congrats on the restoration!

[mik15]

did you also get the HPS? i bought it from horsepowerfreaks.com, they have a very good price (http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Hawk/Brakes/Brake_Pads/HPS_Performance_Street/19706), but i am kind of disappointed that they come w/o the wear sensor....regarding the restoration, yeah, it's been pimped :), the car drives now very good, i am really happy i did it so i can enjoy it at its full potential, the feeling with a locking TC now is great, no more slipping!

read again the add and it says w/0.572 thickness;w/o wear sensor notch, i guess we do not have a wear sensor but a thickness one, the wear sensor is the one BMW uses on its Idrive ?

[lswing]

Wear and thickness are the same no? Pretty sure wires were coming out of the hps, plugged into car, i think...

[Bigglezworth]

Sensor is imbedded into the pad......Inaccurate statement. To clarify, there is no sensor in the pads. There is rather an embeded 'looped' wire end that completes a circuit. When the pads wear beyond a set point (through the looped end of the wire), the signal can no longer be transmited and the circuit becomes an open circuit. We all see this as a 'change pad' warning on the dash. Effectively the same principle that is used to warn you that you have a burnt out bulb on one of your lights.

[ttboost]

For TRUE preventative maintenance, you should remove the stock automatic transmission, and replace it with a 01E 6 speed manual gearbox. You will effectively prevent anymore transmission/TC failures...