17125 - Torque Converter Clutch P0741 - 35-00 - Stuck OFF / No Power

[IGO300]

Hi Guys,

I'm in Sydney Australia and (un)lucky enough to have one of the 30 beasts they brought into this country. Needless to say, not a lot of expertise here with these cars compared to you guys.

Anyway I've logged the dreaded code at 58000 miles. Only on Vagcom. No CEL's on the dash. Gearbox seems fine except for a "swoosh" sound under heavy acceleration..so I'm avoiding that.

Already flushed and replaced the transmission fluid but didn't solve the problem.

So its a gearbox out job to replace the TC.

Could someone help with 2 questions.

There is a pretty huge cost in pulling the tranny apart and if it can be avoided it would be good.
But there is also a big cost in getting the tranny out so I don't want to do it twice.

Is there definitive evidence once the TC is off to indicate the transmission needs an overhaul?

Secondly, what's a reasonable time estimate for getting the tranny out.

Thanks heaps for any advice you can offer.

[TozoM8]

4 hours out, 6 hours back. The trans still should be fine.

[IGO300]

A bit less than the 2 days out and 2 days back I've been quoted from the dealer.

Now to find someone here in Sydney who is prepared to be fair dinkum and not rape me.

[IGO300]

I read that 17125 could also result from a dirty valve body.
I've just been quoted $1300 to remove pan and clean (rebuild) the valve body.
Is this worth a try or should I simply go straight to replacing the TC ?

[Shoppinit]

If you are going to the trouble of pulling the box, then it makes sense to replace the whole lot. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear.

Very few people will pull the box without pulling the engine. Tozo is one, and I suspect that his times are based on having lots of experience doing it and got it down pat. No dealers, and most specialists won't even consider pulling the trans without pulling the engine at the same time. I don't really blame them, because a mistake could be an expensive one.

[IGO300]

I didn't think the box needed to come out to clean the valve body.

I was hoping to remove the pan, drain the fluid, check for debri, and replace with Mobil Synthetic ATF along with a new O ring, pan gasket and oil strainer.

The dealer just changed the fluid but didn't change the filter $700+.

Just trying to follow Tozo's tips.

[Shoppinit]

The VB can be removed with the box in situ. You can try it if you like, but it sounds unlikely to me and if it turns out that you need a new box, you've just thrown $1300 away.

[IGO300]

Update on my gearbox codes -

I found out that the dealer didn't service the transmission. Simply sucked out the old fluid and refilled with Audi ATF. $750
We've now removed the pan, cleaned, (hardly any metal whatsoever), replaced the filter and gasket and refilled with Mobil fully synthetic ATF.
Unfortunately now have an extra code to match the original 17125
17125 - Torque Converter Clutch
P0741 - 35-00 - Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred
17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring
P0730 - 35-10 - Incorrect Gear Ratio - Intermittent

So I guess it's the transmission out for starters (I've been quoted $2600 for remove and refit only)

My questions are -
What is the cause for the 17114 code?

As I still haven't had any fault code come up on the dash - should I just replace the TC or do we need to get into the gearbox as well (extra $4,500 over and above TC)

As usual, thanks heaps for any good advice.

[lswing]

Did you use the right fluid and fill it right, all the way full then double check after driving, seems to point to that....

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17114/P0730/001840

[TozoM8]

Update on my gearbox codes -

I found out that the dealer didn't service the transmission. Simply sucked out the old fluid and refilled with Audi ATF. $750
We've now removed the pan, cleaned, (hardly any metal whatsoever), replaced the filter and gasket and refilled with Mobil fully synthetic ATF.
Unfortunately now have an extra code to match the original 17125
17125 - Torque Converter Clutch
P0741 - 35-00 - Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred
17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring
P0730 - 35-10 - Incorrect Gear Ratio - Intermittent

So I guess it's the transmission out for starters (I've been quoted $2600 for remove and refit only)

My questions are -
What is the cause for the 17114 code?

As I still haven't had any fault code come up on the dash - should I just replace the TC or do we need to get into the gearbox as well (extra $4,500 over and above TC)

As usual, thanks heaps for any good advice.
Was it running when they filled it? It sounds like low on fluid.

[IGO300]

Was running. On the hoist. Put in reverse and held. Put in drive and held. We used Mobil Fully Synthetic ATF - Is this okay

[lswing]

Did they fill correctly checking temp with Ross-Tech? Re-check and add fluid, hope that helps...

[905084]

I'd try a new VB. Whole lot cheaper than a new trans and well, when most shops "rebuild" a trans you don't get a new VB. Aside from the codes, how does it drive? Slipping? Hot, Cold?

[IGO300]

Did they fill correctly checking temp with Ross-Tech? Re-check and add fluid, hope that helps...

Can we run through the procedure one more time please to make sure we got it right.

[IGO300]

I'd try a new VB. Whole lot cheaper than a new trans and well, when most shops "rebuild" a trans you don't get a new VB. Aside from the codes, how does it drive? Slipping? Hot, Cold?

Swoosh sound under full acceleration. Otherwise drives quite normally.

However since last ATF change I also notice a slight noise that was not there before.

[Shoppinit]

Swoosh sound? Or whining? Sounds like cavitation from low ATF. Sounds to me like the proper procedure wasn't followed for getting the ATF level right.

Also Mobil Fully Synthetic ATF is not what is recommended. Different mechanical properties to the original ZF stuff. Could be less viscous showing up pre-existing faults.

Did you check the uptake pipe on the strainer? Many, many stories of these being the wrong ones and too long resulting in ATF starvation.

[lswing]

Can we run through the procedure one more time please to make sure we got it right.

I would be a bit scared if your shop can't describe it in detail. Don't remember the exact temps and process myself, but search threads here and you'll find it. Sometimes the google searches can do better...

Check the fluid when you bring it in, guessing 2 quarts low...

[Shoppinit]

35°C is the cut-off temp. The box needs to be full (overflowing) at this temp. You have to run through the gears, too, while filling. When at 35°C and the ATF is overflowing, your level is good and you need to put the bung back in.

[Shoppinit]

More precise details:



<table class="cc abstand-liste-erster einzug-standard hinweis-rumpf"> <tbody> <tr><td>The ATF level is checked at the ATF inspection plug.</td></tr></tbody></table> <table style="width: 1102px; height: 38px;" class="cc abstand-liste einzug-standard hinweis-rumpf"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="einzug-liste"> </td> <td>The ATF level is correct if a small amount of fluid comes out at the ATF inspection plug when ATF temperature is between 30°C and 45°C, or 50°C in hot climates (the fluid level rises due to expansion as it warms up).</td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="cc einzug-standard abstand-standard "> <tbody> <tr> <td class="einzug-liste">– </td> <td>Drive vehicle onto a four-column lifting platform or over an inspection pit in order for it to be absolutely horizontal.</td></tr></tbody></table>

[905084]

Fluid level I would guess first, fluid type second, filter third. My .02

[IGO300]

Fluid level I would guess first, fluid type second, filter third. My .02

Thanks Guys.

I used Mobil 1 Mercon V as I read on here that it was the ATF to use but it seems as though not everyone agrees.

It would be good to have a definite answer on which ATF to use.

[Shoppinit]

That's an easy one:

ZF Lifeguardfluid5 (ZF No. S671 090 170):
Audi / VW Oil No. G 052162 A1 / A2 / A6
BMW Oil No. 8322 9407807
Citroen Oil No. Z 000169756
Jaguar Oil No. JLM 20238
Mercedes Benz Oil No. A 0019892203
Peugeot Oil No. Z 000169756
Porsche Oil No. 999.917.547.00

/EDIT: It's all the same stuff. Just the price that varies depending on where you buy it. :)

[IGO300]

That's an easy one:

ZF Lifeguardfluid5 (ZF No. S671 090 170):
Audi / VW Oil No. G 052162 A1 / A2 / A6
BMW Oil No. 8322 9407807
Citroen Oil No. Z 000169756
Jaguar Oil No. JLM 20238
Mercedes Benz Oil No. A 0019892203
Peugeot Oil No. Z 000169756
Porsche Oil No. 999.917.547.00

/EDIT: It's all the same stuff. Just the price that varies depending on where you buy it. :)

But what about Mobil 1 Full Synthetic Multi Vehicle Formula ( Allison C4, Mercon V, Dexron IIIH)
This is what we used and I'm trying to determine if it is suitable.

[Shoppinit]

No, the ZF stuff isn't synthetic.

Doesn't necessarily mean it won't work, of course, but you've added an unknown by using a non-standard fluid.

[TozoM8]

No, the ZF stuff isn't synthetic.

Doesn't necessarily mean it won't work, of course, but you've added an unknown by using a non-standard fluid.
Mobil 1 is fine. Your pan has a slight dent-in and the filter is too close to the pan. You need to cut 10mm off of the filter's pickup tube and it will be fine.

[IGO300]

Mobil 1 is fine. Your pan has a slight dent-in and the filter is too close to the pan. You need to cut 10mm off of the filter's pickup tube and it will be fine.

Thank you