going to ABT chip tunning (505 hp)...

[Julian Yang]

hello to RS6 mania ^^ this is Seoul, South KOREA..
My avus silver RS6 is comming in Dec. and I'd like to know that Is there any problems with ABT chip tunning(505hp) in RS6 ,,,or is there any recommended chip tunning company that I could deviate the risk ... I've heard that chip tunning is to be followed by specific octane level of their region...
Our country 's highest octane level is 93 to 94...
Please give me some technical advice on installing exaust system,brake system,taking out the limiter,,etc
I am getting too much excited and feel like i no longer can wait to get beast... thanks guys^^

[TheBrit]

Hello and welcome to the rs6.com forums! :)

Is the Abt chip available through your Audi dealer? Here in Europe, the Abt chip is available to order through Audi dealers without affecting the warranty. The ECU and TCU are removed and sent over to Abt in Germany for reprogramming and testing, from the UK this means about 4 days off the road. I think the warranty being kept is partly to do with a European Union regulation where if it's honored in Germany it has to be honoured elsewhere in the EU. You could ask your dealer about the Abt chip & warranty.

However, the fact that Audi AG and quattro GmbH are prepared to put a warranty on the Abt chip means it must be a relatively safe option. The Abt chip is only 505bhp (other tuners are going 530bhp and above), but that doesn't necessarily mean that their tuning is any less safe, as bhp is a "headline" figure, the limit on the transmission is based on torque.

In theory it would be possible for the re-coded ECU and TCU to work together (as they do to an extent in a stock car) to ensure that the gearbox's maximum torque isn't exceeded for too long a period. Whether this happens or not would be pure guesswork on my part, so I'll just leave it as a theory for now! However, that would be a neat way of making more power available without risking overloading the transmission (any tuners listening? I'll just take a small cut as an inventors fee, thankyou!).

Octane level measurements vary by country. Here in the UK, regular "premium" unleaded is 95 RON, most super unleaded is 97 RON and Shell Optimax is around 98.6 RON supposedly. I know in the US, the octane rating is something like RON+MON/2, so the values are different from UK RON ratings. I would find out how your country's rating works.

Generally speaking, higher octane is better (up to a point), but the ECU can retard timing to handle slightly lower octane fuel. More important is the quality of the fuel in terms of purity, lack of contamination etc. Contaminated fuel can lead to "detonation", where the mixture ignites early and this can cause severe engine damage. Only fill up from reputable filling stations!

Hope your RS 6 gets to you safely, be sure to post again once you get it, and tell us all about your RS 6 experiences. :incar:

[Nordschleife]

Hi
You need to take care what you say about warranties and a few other matters:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheBrit
Hello and welcome to the rs6.com forums! :)

Is the Abt chip available through your Audi dealer? Here in Europe, the Abt chip is available to order through Audi dealers without affecting the warranty.

As far as I am aware, this is not a European wide situation. Audi GB has an arrangement with Abt to roll Abt's warranty in with the Audi AG warranty to simplify claims in the UK. All European Union tuners are obliged by EU regulations to offer a two warranty (provided the car is fairly new/low milage)

However, the fact that Audi AG and quattro GmbH are prepared to put a warranty on the Abt chip means it must be a relatively safe option.

As I said above, it is Audi GB, not Audi AG and quattro GmbH that is doing this.

Abt chip is only 505bhp (other tuners are going 530bhp and above), but that doesn't necessarily mean that their tuning is any less safe, as bhp is a "headline" figure, the limit on the transmission is based on torque.

When discussing BHP, remember that bhp is a function of Torque, to cut torque and maintain bhp, the tuner has to reprofile the torque curve so that it peaks at higher rpm, the maximum bhp will now be higher up the rev range. Some tuners may need to increase the maximum engine revs, which introduces another set of problems.

In theory it would be possible for the re-coded ECU and TCU to work together (as they do to an extent in a stock car) to ensure that the gearbox's maximum torque isn't exceeded for too long a period. Whether this happens or not would be pure guesswork on my part, so I'll just leave it as a theory for now! However, that would be a neat way of making more power available without risking overloading the transmission (any tuners listening? I'll just take a small cut as an inventors fee, thankyou!).

You are about 20 years too late in asking for your share! There is a great need for significant reprogramming of the gearbox. There are faults in the original program which become apparent at over 800NM. It is not straightforward to program around these. Regular S6 users also report the problem, in a much reduced form, with that car.

Octane level measurements vary by country. Here in the UK, regular "premium" unleaded is 95 RON, most super unleaded is 97 RON and Shell Optimax is around 98.6 RON supposedly. I know in the US, the octane rating is something like RON+MON/2, so the values are different from UK RON ratings. I would find out how your country's rating works.

US octane rating is (RON+MON)/2, not RON+MON/2
Its not just the octane, other issues, like sulphure content and aromatics need to be taken into account.

[QUOTE]

HTH
R+C
PS Poms who project from the UK particular to the European General really ascent the nostril, here in Europe.

[TheBrit]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Hi
You need to take care what you say about warranties and a few other matters:
And that's what I love about the Internet in general, and forums like this in particular - everyone has something to learn from those that have more knowledge, experience or both. I don't profess to be an expert in all things, hence my frequently urging people to check things for themselves. Of course, in lieu of checking for themselves, those of us with only a consumer's knowledge can wait for someone with your connections to turn up and set us all straight.

Sorry for the implication that Audi UK's deal with Abt was European-wide. Interesting that the EU regs require all tuners to offer a warranty.

I know all too well that bhp is a function of torque. Tuners often state their "headline" bhp figures, but the best information comes from a dyno plot showing torque band across the range. Looking at dyno plots from the RS 6, it would appear (to my untrained eye) that the stock program limits torque heavily from 1950 rpm right up to 5600 rpm, hence Audi's figures showing such a wide peak torque band.

I realise that the TCU and ECU work together, as I pointed out. What I was implying is that I didn't know whether reprogrammed ECUs could be clever enough to know the real torque limits of the gearbox and make sure that maximum torque isn't exceeded for an inapropriate length of time. Such an ECU could provide a way to have brief bursts of higher torque, but dial back if the risk of transmission damage becomes too high from prolonged high torque output. Asking for a fee was tongue-in-cheek...

Programming faults over 800Nm? Can you give us some more details of any tuning to over 800Nm that anyone has performed on any car using the same gearbox as the RS 6 (including an actual RS 6 of course)?

Did we clear up which gearbox the RS 6 actually uses? If it's a ZF 5 HP 24, their stated figures are 520Nm max torque when combined with the W280 converter aren't they? In industry report containing input from ZF seems to imply that the full-load testing cycle has been reduced as they don't expect modern traffic conditions to allow full-load operation for prolonged periods of time, does this imply that 520Nm is a "safe" limit and can be exceeded for short periods with relatively low risk, but perhaps not for longer periods?


US octane rating is (RON+MON)/2, not RON+MON/2
Its not just the octane, other issues, like sulphure content and aromatics need to be taken into account.
OK, so the placement of the parenthesis changes the calculation, but I did say it was "something like" to indicate I wasn't sure, but I knew it was different. I believe I also noted that octane value wasn't the only factor and that overall quality of the fuel was important. Did not explicitly mentioning sulphur and aromatics content invalidate that?


PS Poms who project from the UK particular to the European General really ascent the nostril, here in Europe.
Well, ascenting your nostril is the last thing I intended to do, so please accept my apologies for that. I'll try to refrain from any unwarranted nasal intrusion in future.

P.S. You forgot to welcome Julian to the forums, I'm sure it was just an oversight and politeness hasn't gone out of fashion in the European General.

[Nordschleife]

Hi
For many years tuners have wound back boost in the lower gears in order to preserve components in the drive train, its well understood and simple to implement. It would be very simple to implement a system which measured transmission oil temperature and alter boost/open oil cooler oil lines accordingly. In fact this is engine management 101.
With the RS6, new down pipes, a variable exhaust opening up more freely under max boost, over 800NM of torque is simple to achieve.
The programming faults with the gearbox are fundemental, they are just much more obvious when it is handling a lot of torque. Interestingly, there is not a quick fix, some engineering would have to be done, as this is an old gearbox, its not worth doing.
Most of us planning on significantly more powerful engines are looking to fit manual gearboxes.
As I'm not a Red Coat at Butlins or Centre Parks or what ever, I don't feel the need to glad hand every passing poster, but everybody to their own tastes.

[iconcls]

Nordschleife,
I think your being a bit pedantic.

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by iconcls
Nordschleife,
I think your being a bit pedantic.

Who pressed your button, sweetie?

[iconcls]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Who pressed your button, sweetie?

Don't flatter yourself.

[Erik]

:vvangry: Calm down...

[Klint]

lol...Yes, I suggest you ladies take Erik's advice or keep the bitching to PMs. ;)

:cheers:

[fabianflach]

Hi !

i have it installed 25.000 km and no Problem .. i think it is the best audi tuner arround,.. best is they are the only company that really support the warrenty !!!

regards
Fabian

[AvusRS6]

Originally posted by fabianflach
Hi !

i have it installed 25.000 km and no Problem .. i think it is the best audi tuner arround,.. best is they are the only company that really support the warrenty !!!

regards
Fabian

Hey who are those 2 Asian Chics in your sig? Let's see a larger photo...

Hopefully this will simmer down the situation a bit :D

[Bauer]

Erik...I will bite my tongue for the sake of the forum:cheers:

or in this case tie my fingers:D

[fabianflach]

Hi ...

here are the Babes !

http://www.radaubuechse.de/luder/036.jpg

http://www.radaubuechse.de/luder/grid/083.jpg

http://www.radaubuechse.de/luder/grid/095box.jpg

http://www.radaubuechse.de/luder/grid/094.jpg