How to launch my RS6!?!??!! Its soooo SLOOOOWW!

[makaveli42]

I just got back from the drag strip and am soooooo disappointed its not even funny!
All ive read and heard about these cars has been how frikkin fast they are! I bought mine a little over 2 weeks ago and have been talking so much smack about how fast it is and then i go to the track to show off and it sucks!

With less than a 1/4 tank of 93 octane in 75 degree weather with no rain the fastest i ran was a 13.965 @ 103.53mph

60' - 2.202
330 - 6.089
1/8 - 9.176
1000 - 11.791
1/4 - 13.965
mph - 103.52

i ran 14.1 for about 6 runs while in "S" mode and while using the paddle shifters. I ran a 14.005 and 13.965 in "D" no paddle shifting and stalling to about 1.5k rpm

I thought this car stock ran a 12.9? thought it was the fastest 4 door in 2003?

I'm hoping that something is wrong and thats what im running these times. But the boost is strong, take off is solid, never felt like it was loosing boost or anything.

I've been told that the 60ft time sucks big time.....im not sure how to increase that!?

How do you guys launch your RS6? what rpm do you stall at? do you put it in "S" or "D" or try to use the paddle shifters to shift yourself?:incar:

I couldnt belive it was this slow, expecially for having a eurocharged ECU!? :cry::cry:

I'd really appreciate any feedback/pointers!

[4everRS]

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/3944d6f3.jpg

That's what you get for talkin smack!

In all seriousness, there's something wrong with your car. You need to data log blocks 3,31, and 115 in turbo mode with vagcom. Everything else is just wasting time.

[MaxRS6]

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/3944d6f3.jpg
In all seriousness, there's something wrong with your car. You need to data log blocks 3,31, and 115 in turbo mode with vagcom. Everything else is just wasting time.

+1.........................

[lswing]

Ha, nice one 4ever!

Seriously, log some data and see what the problem is, you are sure to be low on boost....I assume the car felt fast to you before taking it to the strip and seeing your times. It's all perspective though, good luck and be nice to your trans, or it won't be nice to your wallet...

Also, I find 75 to be a warm day for this car, expect a slower time, certainly after a few runs. When it's about 40 around here my car runs AMAZING!

[MaxRS6]

BTW-...Welcome aboard the..

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/Ozzy%20at%20Emerald/CrazyTrainPoster1.jpg?t=1293713060

[makaveli42]

thanks guys, i appreciate the feedback, i dont have a vag-com yet because im not sure which one to buy?
http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/cat/VCDS.html
which one works for a 2003 RS6? and do you have to redline in 3rd to get accurate readings? i can do it but i just dont really feel like going to a back road and going that fast lol.

[lswing]

I got this one based on their recommendation and it works great. I did have issues with it not connecting on two laptops, or dropping connection, but luckily I got a third:) Not sure if the +CAN models offer much more for our cars, call ross-tech also as they are good to chat with. Yes, logging in third is tough, I usually shut it down a bit early as third tops at 100...


VCKII VCDS License with KII-USB Interface 1 $249.00
</pre>

[makaveli42]

cool thanks! ill get it then for sure...

now does vag-com just read codes and tell you problems or can u actually fix the problems with it? like can u change the air/fuel ratio or increase the boost?

[lswing]

It just reads and logs data, shows codes, allows toggle of codes. Not sure about accessing your Eurocharge tune besides going back to who flashed it, I would think your tune is fine and it's a mechanic issue, but tough to tell. Are you sure it's really tuned? The logs will tell you everything, mostly...

[speedtrapped]

The nose dives, it's a 9 year old slush box, but search the site for the fabled duck rat duck method(something like that), car in S, hold brake hard, rev 2500-2700, let off, again repeat, not letting off brake, 3rd time gas it hard, brake off....u should pop off line hard. The method takes practice, but when it works it's awesome.....you are building boost, and match revs to gas, essentially starting car off in sweet spot, with boost already built it up.....that said, it will kill a stock TC overtime.
Oy yeah, log 03,31,115.... Good luck

[makaveli42]

The nose dives, it's a 9 year old slush box, but search the site for the fabled duck rat duck method(something like that), car in S, hold brake hard, rev 2500-2700, let off, again repeat, not letting off brake, 3rd time gas it hard, brake off....u should pop off line hard. The method takes practice, but when it works it's awesome.....you are building boost, and match revs to gas, essentially starting car off in sweet spot, with boost already built it up.....that said, it will kill a stock TC overtime.
Oy yeah, log 03,31,115.... Good luck

i plan on getting an upgraded TC and getting the TCU flashed. The only TC i can find is A.C.E. Very fair price but anyone know a price on getting on installed?

as far as the whatever method u said, i did launch from about 2700rpm and only ran a 14.2...im going June 5th to a performance shop EPWerks.com to get it looked over and they said they can see if its been tuned before and or its all stock and to just get an all around look over from a place that knows what they are doing.

[lswing]

So you may or may not be flashed, that could be a big part of it. A lot of people seem to like the Eurocharged tune, so hopefully you have it, a flash is usually around $600.

The TC install will be around $2k...best do other things while you're at it too. ACE is great....

[kismetcapitan]

you're on a Eurocharged ECU? so am I, and I've been running at the strip for the past two weeks - a complete novice.

2.2 0-60ft is about right, without using more brutal tranny-killing launches. I am now running 2.0 0-60ft and that's as far as I'll go. I've figured out how to brake boost more mildly. The duck rat foot would undoubtedly shave off another tenth or two, but that's really the limit for the car. It's 4000lbs and AWD, you can't change the laws of physics.

Did you turn off the ESP? The one time I ran with it on, it flashed all the way down the strip and got my worst 1/8th time - 9.1.

I think something is wrong with your car, judging from your mph. I once hit 94mph at the 1/8th (haven't been to a full 1/4 track yet), and I am consistently at 86-89mph and pulling VERY hard through the traps. With another 1/8th mile, I can see a low to mid 12. My car pulls to 120mph very quickly on the highway, and I never use full throttle on the streets.

How many runs did you do? Was that your best run? Heat soak is a problem; two days ago, I brought several bags of ice. In staging, I had all these ice bags sitting on top of the airbox. Looked a bit odd, but I heard several folks saying "damn, why didn't I think of that?". It helped.

You can gain 0.2-0.3 seconds on the launch - that's just technique/willingness to buy a new transmission. By the 1/8th you're 0.7 seconds slower than you should be, and I think you're losing another full second in the second 1/8th - that's a power issue. 14 seconds is nowhere near what this car should be doing, bone stock, with nothing more than just mashing the pedal.

[makaveli42]

you're on a Eurocharged ECU? so am I, and I've been running at the strip for the past two weeks - a complete novice.

2.2 0-60ft is about right, without using more brutal tranny-killing launches. I am now running 2.0 0-60ft and that's as far as I'll go. I've figured out how to brake boost more mildly. The duck rat foot would undoubtedly shave off another tenth or two, but that's really the limit for the car. It's 4000lbs and AWD, you can't change the laws of physics.

Did you turn off the ESP? The one time I ran with it on, it flashed all the way down the strip and got my worst 1/8th time - 9.1.

I think something is wrong with your car, judging from your mph. I once hit 94mph at the 1/8th (haven't been to a full 1/4 track yet), and I am consistently at 86-89mph and pulling VERY hard through the traps. With another 1/8th mile, I can see a low to mid 12. My car pulls to 120mph very quickly on the highway, and I never use full throttle on the streets.

How many runs did you do? Was that your best run? Heat soak is a problem; two days ago, I brought several bags of ice. In staging, I had all these ice bags sitting on top of the airbox. Looked a bit odd, but I heard several folks saying "damn, why didn't I think of that?". It helped.

You can gain 0.2-0.3 seconds on the launch - that's just technique/willingness to buy a new transmission. By the 1/8th you're 0.7 seconds slower than you should be, and I think you're losing another full second in the second 1/8th - that's a power issue. 14 seconds is nowhere near what this car should be doing, bone stock, with nothing more than just mashing the pedal.

i made about 7 passes down the track, slowest was 14.3, fastest 13.965, i did a few runs with the ESP light on. i usually have it with the light off. (idk if the light on means its off or on? lol)
it didnt feel like it was loosing power but idk. the shop im taking it to is going to check the diverter valves and check for boost leak among other things to see if we can find out why its not as fast as it should be.

Once again i appreciate all the feedback! Im going to buy a vag-com in the next month or two so see if i can find any errors with it (even tho im still kinda lost of what a vag-com can actually do)

[lswing]

Get the vag-com now, before going to the shop. It lets you log all data of the car, along with telling you what is going wrong with fault codes. We'll be able to see exactly what is happening to your boost, temps, air flow, fueling, yada yada....there are some experienced folks on here that can sometimes give better feedback than a shop...just saying. There are a couple cheap/hack routes to get the logging to work also, but I don't mind the $250 at all for such a good product.

I'm assuming you are not getting a CEL, right?

[makaveli42]

@kismetcapitan how much boost are you running with your Eurocharged Stage 2 tune?

[makaveli42]

I'm assuming you are not getting a CEL, right?

correct, no check engine light on at all....although everything i start the car it says "service" then says "OK" but never while im driving it. and i have to sell a lawnmower and 3 wheeler before i can buy the vag-com (wife's rules) lol so thats why i said itd be a month or two before i can get one...and i trust everyone on these forums with the vag-com but i still dont see exactly what it does, as far as like does it show what psi of boost im running or if my BOVs are bad or any of those things?

[marklar182]

Vag com is a valuable diagnostic tool. It is a almost clone of what an audi dealer uses. Remember, every time a dealer/Service center hooks up your car to a diagnostic unit for a CEL or diag they charge ~$90. 2 times and you have almost paid off the Vag Com. You may be thinking well Autozone does it for free, but their codes are very vauge and really not very informative for VAG cars.

It shows and clears codes, shows and logs engine parameters in realtime (boost, timing, misfires, O2 values, EGT temp, ect), it also allows you to code and mod/customize (program) the individual control modules in the car.

[johnnie27]

i made about 7 passes down the track, slowest was 14.3, fastest 13.965, i did a few runs with the ESP light on. i usually have it with the light off. (idk if the light on means its off or on? lol)
it didnt feel like it was loosing power but idk. the shop im taking it to is going to check the diverter valves and check for boost leak among other things to see if we can find out why its not as fast as it should be.

Once again i appreciate all the feedback! Im going to buy a vag-com in the next month or two so see if i can find any errors with it (even tho im still kinda lost of what a vag-com can actually do)


esp light (on ) means its off matey..i gotta say stock rs6 runs 13.09 here..tuned 12.46 i have apr tune i find that light throttle off the line is best..then mash it?

[makaveli42]

i know this is off topic but what about K&N filters? ive read some stuff and heard they giv you more power but the oil can mess with the MAF sensors....with a vag-com could you over ride the MAF to work with the K&Ns? and if u dont oil the heck out of the filter idk why itd mess with the MAF anyways

[makaveli42]

esp light (on ) means its off matey..i gotta say stock rs6 runs 13.09 here..tuned 12.46 i have apr tune i find that light throttle off the line is best..then mash it?

are you happy with the APR tune? it takes you to 525hp correct? its like $2900 and didnt know if ti was worth it or not...

[4everRS]

K & N filters are NOT worth it. I have done tests on these things and there is ZERO increase in mass air flow. Don't waste your money. The stock paper filter better, won't screw with mafs and flow the same. Plus their cheaper.

Johnnie, if you add the left foot braking to your tune, you can launch as hard as you want. I've only done it a few times cause I know shit will break if I do it more. Added plus of not needing to worry about duck-foot-rat technique. The dfr technique really just fools the ecu to allow you to boost with your foot on the brake ( where it would usually cut boost).

[makaveli42]

Johnnie, if you add the left foot braking to your tune, you can launch as hard as you want. I've only done it a few times cause I know shit will break if I do it more. Added plus of not needing to worry about duck-foot-rat technique. The dfr technique really just fools the ecu to allow you to boost with your foot on the brake ( where it would usually cut boost).

isnt left foot braking just holding the brake and gas for a few seconds then letting off the brake? cuz thats what i was doing...

[johnnie27]

are you happy with the APR tune? it takes you to 525hp correct? its like $2900 and didnt know if ti was worth it or not...

here in OZ they quote the APR TUNE at 530 bhp and 720 Nm

4 stages
98 octane
95 octane
stock
Valet mode 3,500rpm rev limit

cost here is over 4K

i have a map now for Cat delete and O2 sensor delete (was another $250 for that) the car is epic IMO...it friggin flies...the torque is just plain mental! just clicked 80,000 klms no issues with tranny or anything for that matter..(the cars here have something changesd in the tranny thou) ...running K&N filters too no issues with MAF or oil either....i think some folks just over spray them , maybe cause they look so pretty bright red?? hope that helps ..john

so YES i am so happy the APR tune was on my car when i bought it, by the OG owner ..i can say that w.out it, i would have bought the E55 benz...

[makaveli42]

and would it worth it to cut out the rear cats and replacing then with straight pipes? then just using a vag-com to turn off the check engine light for the rear o2 sensors?

[makaveli42]

here in OZ they quote the APR TUNE at 530 bhp and 720 Nm

4 stages
98 octane
95 octane
stock
Valet mode 3,500rpm rev limit



is the 530bhp on the 98 octane?

[johnnie27]

K & N filters are NOT worth it. I have done tests on these things and there is ZERO increase in mass air flow. Don't waste your money. The stock paper filter better, won't screw with mafs and flow the same. Plus their cheaper.

Johnnie, if you add the left foot braking to your tune, you can launch as hard as you want. I've only done it a few times cause I know shit will break if I do it more. Added plus of not needing to worry about duck-foot-rat technique. The dfr technique really just fools the ecu to allow you to boost with your foot on the brake ( where it would usually cut boost).

ah ok thanks mate! i'll look into that..on the filter thing ..have you had experience with PIPERCROSS OR ITG filters??? i know some folks here are using RSQUATTRO filters in there RS5's with 8-10 hp + on the dyno?? and they are a foam style pannel filter?

[4everRS]

When the brake switch is activated (brake held), the ecu tells the wastegates to dump boost. If you rev the engine a few times while holding the brake, you will fool the ecu and some boost will build. Your 60 foot times will drop dramatically if you do it right.

You said you have Eurocharged. Call jerry at Eurocharged, and ask him to give you the hotter tune and tell him to give you left foot braking and test pipe file so you can gut your downpipes :). The the left foot braking you don't need to do the multiple engine revs to build boost.

And yes, the technique is know to this board as the duck foot rat. Pioneered by a couple of the most knowledgeable rs6 guys around. Dhall (Dave) and v8weight (pat).

[4everRS]

Because a picture is worth a thousand words:

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/71b195f9.jpg

[johnnie27]

is the 530bhp on the 98 octane?

yes mate it is on the 98 fuel..i think you guys call that 93 in the usa

[makaveli42]

You said you have Eurocharged. Call jerry at Eurocharged, and ask him to give you the hotter tune and tell him to give you left foot braking and test pipe file so you can gut your downpipes :). The the left foot braking you don't need to do the multiple engine revs to build boost. .
I've called and left messages and no one has called me back, I was emailing n Adam Chisum with Eurocharge for about a week then all the sudden he stopped answering the mails...I just wanted to see if they keep records of the tubes they do to see if they could see what my car was tuned for!!

[4everRS]

ah ok thanks mate! i'll look into that..on the filter thing ..have you had experience with PIPERCROSS OR ITG filters??? i know some folks here are using RSQUATTRO filters in there RS5's with 8-10 hp + on the dyno?? and they are a foam style pannel filter?

I don't know anything about the rsquattro filters, but have heard some about the itg's. I'm really not had experience with other than stock and K&N.

[4everRS]

I've called and left messages and no one has called me back, I was emailing n Adam Chisum with Eurocharge for about a week then all the sudden he stopped answering the mails...I just wanted to see if they keep records of the tubes they do to see if they could see what my car was tuned for!!

Sounds unfortunatley familiar. Get a hold of Jerry. He's in Texas I believe.

Edit: Jerry Thorton. jerry@eurocharged.com

[lswing]

are you happy with the APR tune? it takes you to 525hp correct? its like $2900 and didnt know if ti was worth it or not...

Hey man, really just trying to help here, but don't even consider that price for a tune. You mentioned needing cash for the ross-tech vag com, what are you gonna do for the $1-2k routine repairs, and the $5-6k for trans or tc if you toast it by running hard at the drags. Seriously, I have dropped $8k this year, some mods in there, but get the car checked out and tuned right. If you have a laptop, you can get so much info by logging your data and learning to work with a tune. I'm guessing this is your first boosted car? I learned on my wrx, and am still learning, tuning is really an art. If you really have the Euro tune, then get the $300 interface device that allows you to check and modify your tune, check their website. Good luck there! Oh yea, update your location when you can, and enjoy the Beast!

[Bigglezworth]

I'm uncertain of your altitude, but these rides should break low 13's stock and into the 12's and even high 11's depending on your tune and launching techniques.

[kismetcapitan]

Eurocharged does left foot braking? I specifically asked if they did when they reflashed my ECU to Stage 2, and the tech said they didn't. It would be very nice to have; one wouldn't have to go full boost, but just hold it at whatever RPM seems to strike a balance between a better launch and mechanical sympathy.

A 0.3 second spread between seven runs is pretty consistent, and dead stock you should be running very low 13s.

[JCviggen]

here in OZ they quote the APR TUNE at 530 bhp and 720 Nm

With full cats and stock ICs that's wishful thinking on their part, well, more like standard tuning company practice really. With nothing but a remap you'll be lucky to see 500, that's pushing the turbos.

Anyway, to the OP, your car isn't running right. Ignoring the launch issues the trap speeds should be a lot higher (they aren't influenced much by the launch, it's a power thing)
Looking at the numbers you're closer to 400 than to 500bhp. Mind you, these cars heat soak like there's no tomorrow. When mine is sat in traffic or at a light for an extended time it's down a lot of horsepower, and that's with uprated intercoolers. If you're stationary for a while prior to the run that will hurt performance a lot.

[Amar]

Agree, 530 BHP is not going to happen with cats in place and on standard ICs.
I will be putting my car down the 1/4 mile on the 25 June, I am at 530 BHP and 844 NM (Dyno proven), with full Milltek downpipes on stock Unit 20 refurbished ICs. It will be interesting to see what time it does, I shall report back.

[Aronis]

When was the timing belt last changed? Mine is in for a new timing belt plus other stuff.....the tech showed me that the timing was off by about and 1/8 turn comparing one cam shaft to the other....said that I would notice an improvement in performance once that is back to 'normal.' So I guess the timing can be off by a bit and not send a CEL...just my 2 cents.

Mike

[lswing]

Mind you, these cars heat soak like there's no tomorrow. When mine is sat in traffic or at a light for an extended time it's down a lot of horsepower, and that's with uprated intercoolers. If you're stationary for a while prior to the run that will hurt performance a lot.

+1, I really notice the difference when it's warm, 80 compared to 40, and driving style. Each cooling mod I've done has made the car faster, with no change in my tune (already aggressive). Removing the aux radiators behind the IC's helped, and the water/meth really gives an extra kick!

[makaveli42]

Hey man, really just trying to help here, but don't even consider that price for a tune. You mentioned needing cash for the ross-tech vag com, what are you gonna do for the $1-2k routine repairs, and the $5-6k for trans or tc if you toast it by running hard at the drags. Seriously, I have dropped $8k this year, some mods in there, but get the car checked out and tuned right. If you have a laptop, you can get so much info by logging your data and learning to work with a tune. I'm guessing this is your first boosted car? I learned on my wrx, and am still learning, tuning is really an art. If you really have the Euro tune, then get the $300 interface device that allows you to check and modify your tune, check their website. Good luck there! Oh yea, update your location when you can, and enjoy the Beast!


car has been serviced every chance its got by the previous owner, i have the Audi Dealership receipts to prove it. I never said i needed the cash, just that the wife wanted me to sell the mower and 3 wheeler before i buy anything for the car. and i didnt know i could modify my tune with an interface device? ill deffently check that out.

[makaveli42]

When was the timing belt last changed? Mine is in for a new timing belt plus other stuff.....the tech showed me that the timing was off by about and 1/8 turn comparing one cam shaft to the other....said that I would notice an improvement in performance once that is back to 'normal.' So I guess the timing can be off by a bit and not send a CEL...just my 2 cents.

Mike

timing belt was changed about 8k miles ago

[makaveli42]

With full cats and stock ICs that's wishful thinking on their part, well, more like standard tuning company practice really. With nothing but a remap you'll be lucky to see 500, that's pushing the turbos.

Anyway, to the OP, your car isn't running right. Ignoring the launch issues the trap speeds should be a lot higher (they aren't influenced much by the launch, it's a power thing)
Looking at the numbers you're closer to 400 than to 500bhp. Mind you, these cars heat soak like there's no tomorrow. When mine is sat in traffic or at a light for an extended time it's down a lot of horsepower, and that's with uprated intercoolers. If you're stationary for a while prior to the run that will hurt performance a lot.

it was in the low90 high 80s all day and i had to drive 45 minutes on the highway to get to the track....so the heat was a factor, but i dont think it was a big enough factor to make me that slow.

[ttboost]

Car should run 13-2 - 13-4 at the very least and around 107-109mph stock. Definitely something wrong with your ride. Maybe in some kind of limp mode? You can have codes, but no CEL's....You NEED Vagcom NOW...

[ben916]

it was in the low90 high 80s all day and i had to drive 45 minutes on the highway to get to the track....so the heat was a factor, but i dont think it was a big enough factor to make me that slow.

I am gonna venture and say that this^^^ is your primary issue (heat soak).
Something else to try is to have a water mister and spray it onto the intercoolers just before lining up.
Pat posted that he and Kyle did that just before a dyno run and it helped with the heat soak...

[makaveli42]

I appreciate all your feedback! I still can't get a hold of anyone from Eurocharge!! I email Jerry and he is on vacation it said. I will buy vagcom ASAP and see what it says (if I can figure out how to read/understand it)

[4everRS]

As Ben said. Heat plays a big factor. We gained about 20 hp after misting the IC's with water.

As far as issues with Eurocharged goes. Pat went through the same communication issues. Finally he lost patience with it and I don't blame him a but. Many have had GREAT experiences with them. I suggest you be patient a little longer. The good thing about a smaller tuner is that you can get a little more customized. The good thing about a big tuning company is that they have people working customer service daily.

[lswing]

The tuner adapter is spendy, but should be great, I would try and find someone who is already running one...

http://www.eurocharged.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=33&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=99

Honestly, you might not need it though. The Ross-Tech VAG-COM system is very easy to understand, give the manual a quick read, pick the correct categories to log, go from 30-80 in third, read and post up your data...