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View Full Version : 600 miles on Konis/H&R springs



kismetcapitan
April 30th, 2012, 01:15
just a couple days after getting my car back, I hit the road back home to Ann Arbor. About 550 miles to get here. Some notes:

I have this odd sensation that there's no rebound damping when the car is moving on bumpy 35mph roads. It's just really, really bouncy. It's been improving; I wonder if the new suspension just needs to break in? Or is it the seats? I recall the very bouncy built-in "seat suspension" in the old M-B 190E 2.3-16, which completely turned me off from that car.

I set the rear to stiffest and the front to medium. I knew I'd regret this - next time the front links are worked on, I'll set the front to stiffest as well.

H&R springs drop the front too much. 1.25" would have been more than enough. 1.4" just gets into ghettofabulous low territory, just on the edge there. No ground clearance issues in general, although on a steep driveway here in Michigan there was a slight momentary scrape. Good thing that lower engine cover is there, and with previous cars lowered a lot more, I still don't have to think about the ride height much.

I set the rear spring perches at the lowest setting, and with the rear 1" drop, I find that perfect.

My front left has always been a bit low, and the broken front left DRC strut seemed to be the culprit. But the front left still is a little less than 1/4" shorter, wheel center to arch, and a whopping 3/8" ground to wheel arch. Hard to notice, but if you look at one side, then the other, it becomes obvious.

I did the upper control arms but not the lowers; I hope those will even things out. If not...could it be that my front subframe is somehow twisted? It has no accident record, but a previous owner could have had an unintentional offroad incursion that would have left no visible damage, except for tweaking the subframe..."

Rolling the front arches by hand worked...mostly. I couldn't get the part where the screw at the top to fold over, because I need to cut the screw insert out, and so there's a slight bit of rub there. Once I get that folded in as well, I think the lowering plus my 10mm spacers can live together in harmony. There's absolutely no rubbing when turning at full lock. No problems without the wheel spacers, but I just really love the look of the car with the spacers in, and the wheels nearly flush with the fenders.

In general I like the harder ride, but it is less comfortable over long distances. However, my wife noted that switching lanes quickly was "safer" (meaning, she felt more confident doing it), and the car doesn't exactly roll all that much.

But for all its failings, DRC did work, and it now feels like a normal suspension, for better or worse, using raw stiffness to counter body roll. The nose dips more when doing slalom maneuvers; it didn't with the DRC.

But I'm happy that the ride height is essentially solved (except for the mysterious front left issue). Going maximum on the front should make turn-in more crisp; my fears of understeer were unfounded....and I HATE body roll, and will pay any price in ride quality to eliminate it!

bakes
April 30th, 2012, 01:31
any pics?

kismetcapitan
April 30th, 2012, 02:13
http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/24228-Konis-and-H-amp-R-springs

lswing
April 30th, 2012, 07:15
No bounce for me on the Koni's, do get a bit of roll, but set soft all around...h&rs are too stiff for the struts I bet, pulling more than the strut can hold?

4.2Crew
April 30th, 2012, 11:28
No bounce for me on the Koni's, do get a bit of roll, but set soft all around...h&rs are too stiff for the struts I bet, pulling more than the strut can hold?


Same here... No bounce or roll (even with oem sways and springs). I agree that the H&R spring rate is probably higher than oem spring rate.

NOTE: The Koni's only have adjustable REBOUND dampening---COMPRESSION dampening is fixed....

kismetcapitan
April 30th, 2012, 16:23
dammit, should have read the fine print! No wonder the front's bouncing around - it should have been set at maximum rebound front and rear!!

coco
May 20th, 2012, 01:31
Does anyone tried Koni FSD for RS6?
Seems like good application for street drive only owners: soft and comfortable for slower speed and tight for faster drive, that's what Koni says, right?
It is possible to use Koni's FSD combined with Eibach sport spring and Hotchikis?
Any idea?

Best regards,
Coco

4.2Crew
May 20th, 2012, 02:03
Does anyone tried Koni FSD for RS6?
Seems like good application for street drive only owners: soft and comfortable for slower speed and tight for faster drive, that's what Koni says, right?
It is possible to use Koni's FSD combined with Eibach sport spring and Hotchikis?
Any idea?

Best regards,
Coco

I did consider Komi FSD's but decided on the Koni Yellow's instead for the following reasons:

---Koni Yellow's have adjustable perch heights, FSD's do not.
---Koni Yellow's have adjustable rebound dampening, FSD's do not.
---Koni Yellow's are rebuildable, FSD's are not.
---FSD's have mixed reviews on Audi and BMW forums, Yellow's more favorable reviews.

I personally think if you are looking for a nice daily ride but without the "slalomn roll", new oem 2001-2003 A6 (C5) 4.2L factory sport cartidges with H-bars would be a simple cost effective swap. Just MHO.

coco
May 20th, 2012, 03:48
I did consider Komi FSD's but decided on the Koni Yellow's instead for the following reasons:

---Koni Yellow's have adjustable perch heights, FSD's do not.
---Koni Yellow's have adjustable rebound dampening, FSD's do not.
---Koni Yellow's are rebuildable, FSD's are not.
---FSD's have mixed reviews on Audi and BMW forums, Yellow's more favorable reviews.

I personally think if you are looking for a nice daily ride but without the "slalomn roll", new oem 2001-2003 A6 (C5) 4.2L factory sport cartidges with H-bars would be a simple cost effective swap. Just MHO.

Thanks, 4.2Crew

So the OEM Sport Struts are the same as the one for S6?

I am expecting mixed review for FDS just because there are two kinds of owners; those who leaning strictly toward handling and tight and more direct feeling, and others more comfortable daily drive use, right?
About adjustable rebound dampening, FSD should automatically adjust its dampening/rebound responding to the driving conditions, right?

I understand many people here are more toward race or sport drinving, and I understand they support KWs, PSS9s and Koni Sport, but I feel these are too much for me considering my use of the vehicle.
I don't know if I can explain how I feel (because I'm not a native English speaker.....).
What I'm look for is good handling and comfort while cruising high speed on Highway, and some responsive handling with some winding road.
At the same time, I want to avoid hard ride while driving in town with slow speed and a lot of bumps.
I guess I'm not very picky about the car's behavior on either extreme sides (I mean hard race like driving and slow rought surface driving), but I need good, solid, and comfortable driving condition in average (median?) driving conditions.

But, I also want to try some aftermarket struts since I have had bad experience with DRC.....

I liked the ride of W124 E500 and R129 SL500.....Not too soft nor hard. Do have good dampening while driving slow speed on bumpy road, and pretty responsive, consistent, and tight handling while driving fast on highways, you know.
The ride of B4 RS4 was bit to hard for me.....sure fun to drive but I get tired if I have to drive in town for long time.
Since I live in Tokyo area and I often have to spend hours driving slow in traffic jams in Tokyo, I need nice comfortable ride while driving slow.

I'm not sure if I should look for the same sort of characteristics as W124 E500 for RS6, but I really like this car.

I'm trying to read all the threds concerning suspensions in this community.
But you know, more I read, it's getting hard to make decision.
I kind like the way you think, 4.2Crew, as well as Innovator (http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/19817-DRC-vs-Bilstein-Koni-Struts.?highlight=KONI+FSD).

My current choices are:
a. H&R coilover (w/wo H-bar)
or combinations of
Strut: Koni Yellows, Koni FSD, Bilstein Sport
Spring: stock, H&R, Eibach
Stabilizer: H-bar, H&R
So 3x3x2=18 combinations.....it's hard to make decisions.

How do you guys make decisions?
Pleeeeeese help

Best regards,
Coco

kismetcapitan
May 20th, 2012, 04:18
I have 1500 miles on my struts now btw, and they have settled in. Still a very harsh ride, but the handling has also improved, therefore, worth every bit of it to me.

4.2Crew
May 20th, 2012, 15:37
Thanks, 4.2Crew

So the OEM Sport Struts are the same as the one for S6?

I don't know.



About adjustable rebound dampening, FSD should automatically adjust its dampening/rebound responding to the driving conditions, right?

Maybe?.... My undrerstanding is the FSD's have more complex internal valving... My take: As the internal fluid degrades, the dampening efficiency will degrade even quicker in a complex valving system... Remind you of something similiar? DRC, perhaps?... Just one guy's opinion.


I understand many people here are more toward race or sport drinving, and I understand they support KWs, PSS9s and Koni Sport, but I feel these are too much for me considering my use of the vehicle.
I don't know if I can explain how I feel (because I'm not a native English speaker.....).
What I'm look for is good handling and comfort while cruising high speed on Highway, and some responsive handling with some winding road.
At the same time, I want to avoid hard ride while driving in town with slow speed and a lot of bumps.
I guess I'm not very picky about the car's behavior on either extreme sides (I mean hard race like driving and slow rought surface driving), but I need good, solid, and comfortable driving condition in average (median?) driving conditions.

But, I also want to try some aftermarket struts since I have had bad experience with DRC.....

I liked the ride of W124 E500 and R129 SL500.....Not too soft nor hard. Do have good dampening while driving slow speed on bumpy road, and pretty responsive, consistent, and tight handling while driving fast on highways, you know.
The ride of B4 RS4 was bit to hard for me.....sure fun to drive but I get tired if I have to drive in town for long time.?

First, you write and articulate very well!...

Second, by your description, the ride you are trying to emmulate may be similiar to a 2001-2003 A6 (C5) 4.2L with the factory sport suspension... The suspension geometry and other properties (load, spring rate etc) are similiar to the RS6. That's why I recomended simply swapping the DRC cartridges out for the A6 4.2L sport's cartridges and retain the RS6 oem springs. If you did this, and replaced the oem sways with H-sways, you'd likely be quite content. My opinion: The Koni Yellow's, even set at full soft, would probably be too firm for you.

Prior to purchasing a RS6, I drove a 2001 A6 4.2L sport over 9 years and 200k miles. It was a relatively cushy but compliant and sporty ride... Only weekness was the sways. The original cartidges were replaced at 120k miles with new oem cartidges----they are quite robust and made by Bilstien---if i recall correctly. To save some coin, get the part #'s from a dealer, then order from genuinaudiparts.com.

If you want to know what the set-up will feel like, find a used local 2001-2003 A6 4.2L sport for sale and test drive... It probably won't have aftermarket sways, but will certainly give you a good insight. And, at least, help deduce/eliminate options!