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bmlee007
April 8th, 2012, 03:20
So, I got the call from the shop when i had the car in for service late last year.

>>> "We fixed 'this' and 'that' but we don't have a record of your timing belt ever having been changed."

<<< "Well, I'm the third owner and it is a salvage car, I'm not really sure if it was done. Can you give me an estimate?"

>>> "Right around 3 grand."

<<< "Um, okay, that's a little higher than I expected." I had the same job done on my 2.7T a year ago at the same dealer for $1350.

>>> "Well, you've got a high-dollar car, you pay high-dollar service." The same dealer sells Mercedes and Porsche.

<<< "Actually, I've been shopping the parts lately, I think I'll save myself a few dollars and do it at home."

Since that call, I've only put about 500 or so miles on the car, just turned over 50,000. I bought it with 46,000 on the odometer, having just been repaired after a front hit. The PO bought it at auction, built it, had a buddy paint it, and then drove it how it is supposed to be for a few hundred miles. When I bought it, I wasn't aware of the 35k rule, so I didn't ask. Buyer beware.

Fast forward to yesterday. I've got the box from ECS in the trunk, cam lock bar and crank pin from europaparts, a couple of forums worth of DIYs, and a cold. At least Jesus died on Friday, so I've got an extra day at home if i need it.

The change went as expected, took about 12-13 hours total. I had hoped to clear-corner the headlights and install my Cupra lip spoiler, but I had to take care of a couple other issues I had found during the work. One of which was that the driver's side intercooler was hanging down out of position and putting a kink in the hose. I had also bought the Wagner upgraded silicone hose kit, so I took the opportunity to change the upper hose on both sides. The Wagners are nice, good quality, and a great fit. I was concerned that they would be hard to install because of the reluctance of silicone to stretch over the intercooler fitting, but they were perfect. Just slightly snug, but free enough to slide on and rotate to the correct position. I only did the uppers, because there is some other madness going on under the car with coolant and transmission cooling lines that were put together half-assedly and are causing clearance issues. Those will have to be dealt with at a later date. I also found that the ribbed idler roller for the serpentine belt must have been damaged during the accident and is slightly bent. Not too much to keep me from driving normally, but I ordered one from genuine today, $142 shipped. So, I'll have to open things back up again at some point to replace the pulley and bearing.

I also found that the fog lights were being held in by cable ties, and that I don't even have any shroud to guide air to the intercoolers. I'm putting the wagner grilles on when they arrive, so the fogs are out for now, I won't be driving it anyway for the next couple of weeks, so no worries about a rock coming in that little bullseye.

One thing that did trouble me a little was that the driver's side cam sprung forward (clockwise) when I removed the belt. The cam seals weren't leaking at all, so I decided against replacing them this time. I'll be getting back on schedule with the T-belt change at 75k, a little early sure, but I'd like to be on the regular routine. (At my current rate, that will be 5-6 years from now.) I did mark the crank at TDC and both cams before I removed the belt, but color me surprised when that cam rotated. Color me red with the blood I lost from my right hand as well. Has this happened to anyone else?

I turned it back the few pitches that it rotated and put the cam lock bar on to prevent any further surprises. The rest of the work went very well, I spent some time cleaning before installing the new parts, put everything back together, filled the beast with some nice new pink stuff, and fired it up. No problems at all, went through the filling and bleeding of coolant until everything was just right. I finished things off with a trip to the car wash, then some lightly spirited driving through the twisties around home.

For those of you who are on the fence about doing this job yourselves, it definitely is NOT an easy task, but it can be done. You need the right tools, a good work space, lots of patience, and trust the material you find here in the forum. In fact, take a double shot of patience.

I bought the kit from ECS, good price, good parts. INA, SKF, Beru, Febi, Continental belts and a water pump with metal impeller. The merits of various kits have been debated in the past, some prefer Gates belts, I've used both in various applications in the non-automotive world for years and had good results.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Pic or it didn't happen.

12499

NSU RS6
April 9th, 2012, 17:31
Nice. I have a feeling I will be doing this in a couple of years. Fortunately, the PO of mine did a timing belt at 65K right before I bought it, more for age related reasons than mileage reasons. Thanks for the post.

bmlee007
April 11th, 2012, 02:28
Money saved goes into the Recaro fund. :)

terrytcl
April 11th, 2012, 20:48
just a heads up -

i have my full timing belt tool kit that is avaialble for rent.
thanks!

bmlee007
April 12th, 2012, 02:30
terry,

I did the bulk of my work using your google docs folder. The info in there is invaluable!

BillDrs6
June 5th, 2012, 01:47
Terry,

I am getting ready to do my timing belt and would like to rent your tool kit if it is still available. I am having to do the timing belt early b/c my harmonic balance had come off and some of the threads in the timing belt crankshaft gear had stripped. I also need to remove the crankshaft bolt and crankshaft timing belt gear and will need the tools for that job also if you have them. I would appreciate any advice here on doing this job. Also, can you recommend a good source for the parts and whether I should go with OEM or after market on any of the parts.

Thanks,
Bill

bmlee007
June 5th, 2012, 03:31
Bill,

If you are pulling the cam sprockets and crank shaft toothed gear then you will need the crank locking pin and a 2-jaw gear puller for sure, and the cam locking bar as an assistant. You can get by without the locking bar, but you MUST scribe a line on cams and sprockets to be sure you get them properly aligned at reassembly. I have the pin and bar, as well as a video from JHM that shows all of the important parts of the belt change, all the way to the water pump. The video is based on a V6 engine, but all of the necessary parts are shown. Also, Bentley has a youtube video showing bumper removal, which is very helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFmhJeDpLJU

Unfortunately, I am out of town for basically the next three weeks, but if Terry can't get the tools to you before I'm home again, I'd be happy to send mine for the cost of shipping.

As far as parts go, most shops sell comparable kits at similar prices, and they are pretty much all OEM parts. My kit from ECS came with Continental belts and the water pump had a metal impellar vs a plastic one, so I was pretty happy with it. http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-RS6--4.2T/Engine/Timing/ES8009/ I bought extra coolant to finish it off.

Here is the kit from JHM, but you need to add the cam and crank seals, and coolant... http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-c5-rs6-42l-v8-03-04-timing-belt-kit-with-install-dvd-p-360.html?cPath=21_66_68_192_193&osCsid=732bec9959a60710182040edbd699a84

Another popular kit is from blauparts... http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GH21132-1-A which also includes coolant.

Whichever kit you choose, you should also add the serpentine belt tensioner... http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-RS6--4.2T/Engine/Drive_Belts/ES1899295/ Just one of those "while you're in there" things.

Also, search for Terry's google document file, it has everything you should need to get the job done. I can't find it right now, too many beers behind me tonight.

BillDrs6
June 5th, 2012, 17:38
bmlee,

Thanks for the info. Terry got back to me so I am ok.


Bill,

If you are pulling the cam sprockets and crank shaft toothed gear then you will need the crank locking pin and a 2-jaw gear puller for sure, and the cam locking bar as an assistant. You can get by without the locking bar, but you MUST scribe a line on cams and sprockets to be sure you get them properly aligned at reassembly. I have the pin and bar, as well as a video from JHM that shows all of the important parts of the belt change, all the way to the water pump. The video is based on a V6 engine, but all of the necessary parts are shown. Also, Bentley has a youtube video showing bumper removal, which is very helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFmhJeDpLJU

Unfortunately, I am out of town for basically the next three weeks, but if Terry can't get the tools to you before I'm home again, I'd be happy to send mine for the cost of shipping.

As far as parts go, most shops sell comparable kits at similar prices, and they are pretty much all OEM parts. My kit from ECS came with Continental belts and the water pump had a metal impellar vs a plastic one, so I was pretty happy with it. http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-RS6--4.2T/Engine/Timing/ES8009/ I bought extra coolant to finish it off.

Here is the kit from JHM, but you need to add the cam and crank seals, and coolant... http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/jhm-c5-rs6-42l-v8-03-04-timing-belt-kit-with-install-dvd-p-360.html?cPath=21_66_68_192_193&osCsid=732bec9959a60710182040edbd699a84

Another popular kit is from blauparts... http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GH21132-1-A which also includes coolant.

Whichever kit you choose, you should also add the serpentine belt tensioner... http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-RS6--4.2T/Engine/Drive_Belts/ES1899295/ Just one of those "while you're in there" things.

Also, search for Terry's google document file, it has everything you should need to get the job done. I can't find it right now, too many beers behind me tonight.

bmlee007
June 5th, 2012, 20:29
bmlee,

Thanks for the info. Terry got back to me so I am ok.

No problem, glad to help. Good luck with the change.

SteveKen
June 5th, 2012, 21:30
. . . You can get by without the locking bar, but you MUST scribe a line on cams and sprockets to be sure you get them properly aligned at reassembly. . .

Let me add my $0.02 here and say that this is not recommended at all.

There is no guarantee that you can maintain alignment once the timing belt gets into tension without the sprockets loose and the cams locked.

4everRS
June 5th, 2012, 23:12
Let me add my $0.02 here and say that this is not recommended at all.

There is no guarantee that you can maintain alignment once the timing belt gets into tension without the sprockets loose and the cams locked.

I was going to say! Whoa. Don't do that. Just do it right the first time.

BillDrs6
June 6th, 2012, 00:22
Terry has all the tools so I will be doing it right.

I had a question about parts for the RS6. There are websites out there that have the parts if you know the part number, but it is not easy finding the parts numbers for the RS6. I am needing various parts, (e.g., crankshaft timing belt gear, harmonic balancer pulley, etc., which are not part of any standard kit), but I don't know an easy way to get the parts numbers other than contacting a dealer. Does anyone have a better way to get this information?

Thanks,
Bill


I was going to say! Whoa. Don't do that. Just do it right the first time.

lswing
June 6th, 2012, 00:49
Terry has all the tools so I will be doing it right.

I had a question about parts for the RS6. There are websites out there that have the parts if you know the part number, but it is not easy finding the parts numbers for the RS6. I am needing various parts, (e.g., crankshaft timing belt gear, harmonic balancer pulley, etc., which are not part of any standard kit), but I don't know an easy way to get the parts numbers other than contacting a dealer. Does anyone have a better way to get this information?

Thanks,
Bill

Post up the parts you need, there are some folks on here that can find the part numbers through ETKA...

marklar182
June 6th, 2012, 03:02
gear- 077105261D
balancer- 077105251M

BillDrs6
June 6th, 2012, 05:01
Would you also have the numbers for the crankshaft bolt and the bolts that hold the balancer to the gear? And is the key used with the gear on the crankshaft a separate part number?

Thanks


gear- 077105261D
balancer- 077105251M

marklar182
June 6th, 2012, 13:46
Would you also have the numbers for the crankshaft bolt N10238802 and the bolts that hold the balancer to the gear 078105229D? And is the key used with the gear on the crankshaft a separate part number?

Thanks

Key is not shown in the parts book, may have to call a dealer for this.

SteveKen
June 6th, 2012, 15:15
The key for the crank is integral with the sprocket. Therefore, no separate drift/key.

Also, the deluxe kit from Blau Parts includes the 8 or ten cap screws that attach the balancer to the sprocket.

I'm not sure if you want to replace the 24mm 12 pt screw that attaches the sprocket to the crank?

P/N for this is 078105229D

BillDrs6
June 6th, 2012, 16:08
That is interesting about the key. I know the balancer uses the same key, but my key got worn down when my balancer came detached from the gear after the 8 bolts had somehow worked themselves out. The balancer just sat there while the crank was spinning b/c it is so tight in there and there was not enough room for it to fall out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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I saw the Blau kit and noticed the 8 bolts are included and will probably go with this kit. I have to replace the main crankshaft bolt b/c I read somewhere it is a stretch bolt. <o:p></o:p>


The key for the crank is integral with the sprocket. Therefore, no separate drift/key.

Also, the deluxe kit from Blau Parts includes the 8 or ten cap screws that attach the balancer to the sprocket.

I'm not sure if you want to replace the 24mm 12 pt screw that attaches the sprocket to the crank?

P/N for this is 078105229D

kday
June 6th, 2012, 16:22
Yes, definitely replace the crank bolt. Less than $20 from any dealer.

FWIW I went with the deluxe Blau kit and all of the parts were good except the water pump. It had a plastic impeller and did not fit right (there was some interference with the block). I used a genuine Audi pump instead. You might ask them if they will sell the kit without the water pump.

BillDrs6
July 10th, 2012, 04:28
I purchased the deluxe blau kit also and had a question. I have a couple of source of information on replacing the timing belt and they all say to loosen the camshaft sprocket bolts. I am not sure if this required if the camshaft seals are not replaced, but it is not clear why they need to be loosened. One of the sources says not to bother replacing the camshaft seal if everything is dry and there is no sign of leakage and this is after it said to loosen the camshaft sprocket bolts. The Audi manual says to loosen the bolts also, but the manual goes on to explaining to replace the seals. The reason I ask it that the Audi manual says the camshaft sproket bolts and diamond shape washers should be replaced and I assume this has to be done if the bolts are loosened. It appears to be dry around both cam seals and I don't want to have to replace the bolts and washers if I don't have to. Any advise here would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

kday
July 10th, 2012, 14:00
The cam timing system on these cars (and all Audi V engines) is "infinitely" adjustable. This is so variances due to manufacturing tolerances of belts, pulleys, tensioners, etc. can be dialed out. This is done by loosening the cam sprockets on their tapered shafts and allowing them to turn as the belt is tensioned while the cam shafts are held fixed with the alignment bar and the crank is pinned. It's an important part of the procedure.

I don't think it's critical to replace the cam sprocket bolts, but I did. They aren't that expensive. Definitely replace the tensioner and roller bolts.

4everRS
July 10th, 2012, 14:10
The cam timing system on these cars (and all Audi V engines) is "infinitely" adjustable. This is so variances due to manufacturing tolerances of belts, pulleys, tensioners, etc. can be dialed out. This is done by loosening the cam sprockets on their tapered shafts and allowing them to turn as the belt is tensioned while the cam shafts are held fixed with the alignment bar and the crank is pinned. It's an important part of the procedure.

I don't think it's critical to replace the cam sprocket bolts, but I did. They aren't that expensive. Definitely replace the tensioner and roller bolts.
^^ what he said. You need to have the sprockets loose when you pull the tensioner pin. Then tighten to spec. Replacing the roller bolts is even more important than the belt.

BillDrs6
July 10th, 2012, 14:43
This makes sense. But in the diagram below which roller bolts are you referring to? It only mentions replacing bolts 9, 24, and 29. Thanks
12765

BillDrs6
July 10th, 2012, 15:04
Maybe it is bolt 3. I just noticed that it says to replace this one also.

kday
July 10th, 2012, 15:09
The rollers are 14 and the critical bolts are 8 and 29.
I also replaced 1, 3, 16, and 27.