Sympotom's of a failing Torque Converter? [Archive] - RS6.com

bakes

March 23rd, 2012, 16:00

With the weather improving, I'm having more occasions to use the right pedal and have noticed the odd occasion where I've seen the rpm gage move up with the out the corresponding acceleration. I suspect the torque converter is going as this is intermittend but more often when I'm hard on the gas from a stop versus while at speed.

Background, car is chipped, MTM transmission chip and the issue occurs when I'm in D and am accelerating hard from a stop or low speed.

Am I on the right track or could this be a transmission issue? Does a failing TC spit out codes? I'll hook up my car to the computer on Sunday to see if anything has been logged.

Any suggestions on what codes to look for?

Thanks for help or suggestions.

JCviggen

March 23rd, 2012, 18:00

When the TCU stops locking the clutch after detecting slip, it will give you a code that translates to TC clutch stuck OFF.

You wouldn't notice the TC clutch malfunction so much from a stop. If you put it in tip mode in a high gear and do some medium acceleration the TC should stay locked. If it doesn't there is a good chance the clutch is inoperative.

Of course it's also possible to have the clutchpacks slip which would be somewhat similar but you'd notice that more as slip after the box shifts.

bakes

March 23rd, 2012, 19:14

Thanks. An example would be that I was stopped on road that was inclined. I started accellerating (at a regular pace) and then I gave it a good amount of throttle and the tach continued climbing but the car did not accelerate accordingly. This doesn't happen all the time and I can't repeatedly recreate it.

I have a full warranty so if it's transmission or TC it'll be covered I just don't want to get caught somewhere and have something blow and be stranded.

lswing

March 23rd, 2012, 19:20

Yikes, does not sound like fun. When my TC went I was getting a cel about 50-75 miles after clearing the code. It did not seem to affect my car like your issue though, so maybe it's the trans? Good luck there!

ttboost

March 23rd, 2012, 19:36

Yup. 17125 is the dreaded code. If you see this, stop driving the car and upgrade your TC ASAP. As long as your CEL hasn't come on, it isn't really bad yet. When you have this code AND the check engine light keeps coming on...probably too late...and likely will need a transmission rebuild sooner rather than later.
Make sure your dealer or Indy is a "flash friendly" shop, or flash your car back to stock first. Wouldn't want them to deny your warranty claim because you added an additional 75hp...

4everRS

March 23rd, 2012, 19:55

Top off your fluid.

A slipping TC will throw a code.

A slipping clutch pack will throw a code. Incorrect gear ratio.

Tom Sawyer

March 24th, 2012, 14:48

Top off your fluid.

A slipping TC will throw a code.

A slipping clutch pack will throw a code. Incorrect gear ratio.

Sorry for the newbie/stupid question, but how/where do you check the level? I'm guessing I'll need to get under the car, not seeing a dip stick.

I've been throwing this code fairly consistently and have begun working out a TC rebuild/swap but if low level can make this happen too it's worth checking that. My car does not seem to 'slip' per-se, but I definitely break out of lock up mode at speed when I give it torque; feels like a serious downshift in TIP though it does not drop gears.

Have to say I'm feeling a bit beat up with all this, 2 mos in the car and looking at $6k with the TC, TB/75k and other maintenance things it has needed or needs. I flip between knowing it's still so much car and my overall 'investment' will still be just below $30k with everything sorted. Anyway, mulling all this over but sure would it be nice if the thing is just low on fluid. If not, guess I'll need to come to terms with it and either finish up what I started or throw in the cards and move on.

alrightroad

March 24th, 2012, 15:12

Sorry for the newbie/stupid question, but how/where do you check the level? I'm guessing I'll need to get under the car, not seeing a dip stick.

I've been throwing this code fairly consistently and have begun working out a TC rebuild/swap but if low level can make this happen too it's worth checking that. My car does not seem to 'slip' per-se, but I definitely break out of lock up mode at speed when I give it torque; feels like a serious downshift in TIP though it does not drop gears.

Have to say I'm feeling a bit beat up with all this, 2 mos in the car and looking at $6k with the TC, TB/75k and other maintenance things it has needed or needs. I flip between knowing it's still so much car and my overall 'investment' will still be just below $30k with everything sorted. Anyway, mulling all this over but sure would it be nice if the thing is just low on fluid. If not, guess I'll need to come to terms with it and either finish up what I started or throw in the cards and move on.

Hope your ride does not walk on you. Keep positive.

For fluid check... it's not as simple as dip stick. Car MUST be level on ground. Start here>>
http://www.audiction.com/audi-maintenance/audi-01v-tipronic-transmission-fluid-change/

4everRS

March 24th, 2012, 17:13

Yep, no dipstick. Need to raise the car and keep it level. Trans needs to be cold to start. Vagcom hooked up to monitor temp. Fill through full tube until 25'C. Not enough fluid is know to cause oddities.

ttboost

March 24th, 2012, 18:49

Yep..car on lift, running at temp, if you unscrew the plug (big allen plug...bottom of pan towards the back) and nothing comes out, your low..add some until it comes out. As soon as you can't add any more, you're good. ...and yes, it needs to be added with a hand pump and short hose...

Tom Sawyer

March 24th, 2012, 19:45

905084

March 24th, 2012, 21:52

hahnmgh63

March 25th, 2012, 01:21

The book say's (ZF)pull the plug at 30~35'C fill if it isn't dripping and put the plug in by 40'C +/- 10'C but most people try to do all this and get it plugged by 35'C, some even at 30'C. I plugged mine off at 34'C just yesterday with it just dripping out. To get it to that temp when cold or cooler the book says to shift from Park to Drive and Reverse holding it in each gear for 3 seconds, also says A/C should be on but I haven't ever bothered turning it on myself. You will need Vagcom to determine the transmission temperature.

4everRS

March 25th, 2012, 01:35

Mark, did you change fluid? Or just have to top it off due to something?

905084

March 25th, 2012, 03:19

Hate to say it, but unless the fluid or filter has been changed recently and/or it was not filled properly, my guess is the A clutch. I'm still troubleshooting mine, but that is where I am headed.

hahnmgh63

March 25th, 2012, 05:54

Just changed fluid as I'm anal and just turned over 1000 break-in miles on the new tranny. Also, the tranny I sent for the rebuild was not the one out of my car, it came from the 6sp swap car at Raven Motorsports in CA and the pan had a slight bend in it from the way they had it sitting on the pallet so I bent the pan out while I had it out, was worried about the oil pickup, and I trimmed about 1/4" of the pickup off the new filter while I was at it.

Tom Sawyer

March 27th, 2012, 19:26

Hope your ride does not walk on you. Keep positive.

For fluid check... it's not as simple as dip stick. Car MUST be level on ground. Start here>>
http://www.audiction.com/audi-maintenance/audi-01v-tipronic-transmission-fluid-change/

Thanks I appreciate that. I've come to terms with the situation. At least the TC will be something I will not have to worry about again. The car is so much more than I could ever hope to get in anything new for the same money, and even used there is not much that comes close. Going to let the stress of it all go, get the 75k and TC repair done, and enjoy. :addict:

lswing

March 27th, 2012, 22:08

Letting go of some of the stress related with down time has been a task for me this month. After spending thousands to fix the steering, with an engine pull, then putting in hundreds more for a part that was damaged, I've figured that's just how it goes sometimes.

Hoping to get the car back this week!!

NSU RS6

March 27th, 2012, 22:21

The car is so much more than I could ever hope to get in anything new for the same money, and even used there is not much that comes close. Going to let the stress of it all go, get the 75k and TC repair done, and enjoy. :addict:

Exactly. Before I was shopping for a car from 6/11 - 1/12, and finally found the RS6 worth buying, what I was going to buy was a foregone conclusion. What else could touch this for about $25K? I spied these forums for months to learn the idiosyncracies of these cars, trying to convince myself that maybe this wasn't the right car, but basically the TC was the only thing I couldn't handle myself. The DRC? 4.2 Crew has one upped the $2000 coilover swap by going for Koni's for $800. I will likely go that route when the time comes.

Meanwhile, I take care of my stuff and don't abuse it, so I think I will be OK on things for awhile. But I have already justified the TC and the DRC within the next two years. Anything more is gravy.

Good luck!

Tom Sawyer

April 6th, 2012, 15:43

A.C.E. TC is in hand and ready to be installed. As many have stated, Andre at A.C.E. was great to deal with. I will probably have to schedule the swap and 75k after next week, rock chipped my windshield in line of sight so insurance is replacing it next week hopefully (with OEM glass).

Tom Sawyer

April 9th, 2012, 12:47

I have a set of Venair hoses and 007's on the way for some 'while I'm in there' items. Would love to go for the wagners but have to draw the line somewhere. Naturally all the bits for the 75k will be done, any other things I should have changed while it's torn down (within reason) knowing this won't be an engine drop?

mik15

April 9th, 2012, 17:41

spark plugs, vacuum hoses...if it's not an engine drop how will you change the TC? you've dropped just the GB?

lswing

April 9th, 2012, 17:46

4everRS

April 9th, 2012, 19:49

Drop the engine. It's easier. I've done it in the car. It sucked.

ttboost

April 9th, 2012, 21:12

Yup...Been there, done that...drop the whole engine and transmission together onto a table...it will take the same amount of time anyway..and you can do and check other things easier too...

Tom Sawyer

April 11th, 2012, 00:08

If I had the means and a beater for the few weeks of downtime I'd do this myself... but unfortunately not an option so doing it at a local shop. He's planning on just pulling the trans.. I suppose once he gets into it he may decide for the DT drop, but at the moment the plan is for just the GB drop.

Will have the venairs and the DV's in by weeks end so those are for sure. With it not being a full DT drop, that limits the items I can have him address of course. I do have a couple minor drips once in a while so those will be addressed. I have a Bufkin sitting on my desk, sounds like it's do'able without an engine pull though just like the transmission a PITA... Guess past the items I have planned I'll just have to play it by ear. As always, sincerely appreciate all the wisdom on this board!!! I need to move to a city with more RS presence! :-)

905084

April 11th, 2012, 00:22

More RS, I wish. Was in SFO and came across a transmission shop. MZF Transmissions. I had to go in. Wolfgang the owner was awesome. 200+ ZF transmissions in his shop. I told him I had an RS6. "Oh my god" was his reply. He didn't even want the work because if he did he would probably lose money. At this point I learned that if you walk into a transmission shop and they say "Yea, RS6, I can do that for X $$" and it is less than what you paid for the car, they have no idea what they are doing.

TozoM8

April 11th, 2012, 01:58

I have to disagree with you on that. I did rebuilt a bunch of RS6 (A8, S8, A6, A4) trans and I do it for way less than what you paid for your car and I have a pretty good idea how to do it right :)

905084

April 11th, 2012, 02:11

Tozo, I'd have you do my trans in a heartbeat. You are definitely an exception to the rule. If I lived in Chi town, my RS would be there in your shop for sure!

bakes

April 11th, 2012, 05:19

I have to disagree with you on that. I did rebuilt a bunch of RS6 (A8, S8, A6, A4) trans and I do it for way less than what you paid for your car and I have a pretty good idea how to do it right :)

I hope my warranty company will let you do my rebuild if and when it's required!!!

Tom Sawyer

April 19th, 2012, 14:50

The TC and trans come out with the engine. You can swap the TC without removing the engine if you want. Parts I just did; Bufkin oil cooler pipe, can tensioner seals, intake manifold seals, inspect all lines and replace if needed, EGT sensors ($600!!), IC hoses...

As many wise folks here have said, the only sane way to do it is a DT drop and my mechanic came to that conclusion once the car was in before the first wrench was turned. So... everything is pulled and all in all things look good. Will do the valve cover gaskets (they are leaking), gave him my bufkin pipe so that will be addressed. Unfortunately the transmission cooler let go of some threads on a fitting so looking for one of those now, posted a new thread on that.

I'm considering going ahead and picking up to new O2 sensors and and EGT... the O2 sensors are not bad $ wise but the EGT is a bit painful. Should I just bite the bullet and do it or? I probably know the answer but appreciate any words of wisdom on that one.

Will be pressure testing the IC's and send to have sealed up if leaking. Same with turbos, there is an excellent turbo shop in town (Turbo Auto) that does a great job with rebuilds and aftermarket units as well, will not hesitate to have that done if they need it.

And of course, worthless without pics so...

My wallet is weeping.

ttboost

April 19th, 2012, 14:54

I can be done with the nose just in service position, and dropping motor out the bottom...actually easier...but seeing as you are already there....

JCviggen

April 19th, 2012, 15:03

Should I just bite the bullet and do it or? I probably know the answer but appreciate any words of wisdom on that one.

I'd feel better getting them done, however it's not entirely impossible to replace the EGT's with everything in place. Merely difficult. Either way though the cheapest time to replace them is when everything's already out.

MaxRS6

April 19th, 2012, 15:06

..but the EGT is a bit painful. Should I just bite the bullet and do it or? I probably know the answer but appreciate any words of wisdom on that one.

Yep, I'd change em- unless they were changed rather recently. If nothing else, it provides a short term warranty. It also covers you if something "just isn't put back just right- aka pinched wire, etc" and a EGT code goes off during the start up- At least you are covered. During my recent engine pull- I had new ones put in and I feel ya pain. Less than .03 worth.

Tom Sawyer

April 19th, 2012, 15:11

I think having 2 less things to worry about will probably be worth the price. Anyone have any suggestions on a good source for the EGT and O2 Sensors?

MaxRS6

April 19th, 2012, 15:12

..gave him my bufkin pipe so that will be addressed. ...

Probably already doing- However; be sure to replace all the other seals inside the oil cooler while you have it apart doing the pipe.

http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/enginemechanical/oilcoolerremovalreinstall.html

lswing

April 19th, 2012, 16:29

Hey that looks like my car did last week! It will all come back together, but takes some $$ for sure. I think the EGT's were $550, but easy to replace with engine out. I had Scroll do the turbos for $1,300 with an upgraded shaft to handle more oil for better cooling and longevity. The turbos that came off were actually in great shape, could have gone to 130-150,000 I would guess...feels more like a restore job than a maintenance job, that's been my stance on repairs here...

NSU RS6

April 19th, 2012, 21:54

Probably already doing- However; be sure to replace all the other seals inside the oil cooler while you have it apart doing the pipe.

http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/enginemechanical/oilcoolerremovalreinstall.html

Geebus - I read that technote months ago when I was still contemplating whether I should consider owning an RS6.

Replacing this is some of the best advice I have seen for "as long as the engine is out......"

Something I have not seen in this list is that little plastic venturi pump under the intake, and associated tubing that gets perpetually baked. Cheap part, and put in a place to keep food mechanic's tables.

At the end of this, we should compile an "As long as the engine is out....things you might want to replace" list, and sticky it. That way, we can buy stuff on sale, have group buys, etc., for that inevitable day.

The engineer who stuck that little plastic pipe on the back of the oil cooler deserves some ill will directed his way.

Tom Sawyer

April 20th, 2012, 15:47

Geebus - I read that technote months ago when I was still contemplating whether I should consider owning an RS6.

Replacing this is some of the best advice I have seen for "as long as the engine is out......"

Something I have not seen in this list is that little plastic venturi pump under the intake, and associated tubing that gets perpetually baked. Cheap part, and put in a place to keep food mechanic's tables.

At the end of this, we should compile an "As long as the engine is out....things you might want to replace" list, and sticky it. That way, we can buy stuff on sale, have group buys, etc., for that inevitable day.

The engineer who stuck that little plastic pipe on the back of the oil cooler deserves some ill will directed his way.

Absolutely excellent idea on the 'while it's out' sticky'!

I gave them the green light to do the o2's and egt's. Looks like I have a motor mount that will be getting replaced too. This is how I'm going to look at it: $5000 worth of maintenance/repairs now, hopefully 4 years of trouble free enjoyment, $1250 a year. Could be much worse.

Vacuum lines is another one, he was shocked the thing was running well at all with no CEL, I had 2 hoses completely broken off toward the back of the engine. I have a feeling that I'm going to really know what the RS 6 is all about when I get this thing back. I have been nothing but thrilled with the car and it's performance so far.... To think that was with a failing TC, broken vacuum lines and boost leaks. I might need an adult diaper for the first drive. :lovl:

lswing

April 20th, 2012, 16:53

Agree with the sticky on repairs and items to inspect when the engine is out. This car blows me away daily, don't worry, leather cleans easy:)

Tom Sawyer

May 1st, 2012, 20:31

There is light at the end of the tunnel! Cooler came in today, now in the shops hands, and everything else is in, TC done, TB done, going back together. I'm hoping that I'll have her back Friday but may be early next week. I'm really looking forward to it, not that the Chevy Malibu I've been renting hasn't been just suhweet. :harass:

Tom Sawyer

May 4th, 2012, 19:50

Looks like she will be ready Monday. This has been a LOOOOONG 3 weeks........

Tom Sawyer

May 8th, 2012, 18:48

Looks like she will be ready Monday. This has been a LOOOOONG 3 weeks........

I totally jinxed it. Got it mostly back together, first startup and found one of the serpentine rollers/tensioners was making a huge racket. So hopefully that part will be in tomorrow morning.

And that's my last post about it until it's back in my hands! :)

Tom Sawyer

May 18th, 2012, 02:26

After a VERY long 4 weeks and 2 days, my Beast and I were joyfully reunited this morning. I could write a novel, but here is the bottom line: if I had driven an RS 6 that drove like mine does now, and then drove mine as it drove when I bought it, I would not have bought it. The difference is just amazing. Naturally it's fantastic to have the ACE converter in and that whole deal sorted out, and I'm optimistic that I caught it in time to save transmission damage as I was getting the 'intermittent' power loss descriptor and no CEL. The car was truly not running right (all relative, seemed fantastic with no reference point) surgey boost wise and absolutely losing boost, a few broken vacuum lines, worn out diverter valves, etc. It is just buttery smooth now, though it is with NO doubt pulling SO much harder, it almost feels less 'brutal' because it's so incredibly smooth. Ok, said I wouldn't write a novel and I won't, but all said and done I could not be happier.

My hit list:

All the normal 75K stuff (+ water pump, thermostat, fuel filter)
Bufkin oil cooler pipe (beyond a no-brainer when that engine is out)
EGT sensors
O2 sensors
Engine mount
ACE converter
007 forge DV's
Venair Hoses
Intercoolers checked for leaks
Turbos checked, all seals replaced
Valve cover gaskets and cam tensioner gaskets
Relay Roller Bearing (not by choice, grenaded)
Oil/Trans Oil cooler (not by choice, grenaded)

All said and done, $5.8K Not a small chunk of change, but considering the fact that the local Audi dealer wanted $3400 just to do the 75k... yeah, feeling pretty good about it all.

Oh and in true RS 6 fashion, I got it back and my rear power shade no longer works. Hilarious.

I think I'll sleep in it tonight.... :lovl:

ntrcptr

May 18th, 2012, 06:54

kismetcapitan

May 18th, 2012, 10:53

well, as I've had no reference point, and as reading web boards turns car owners into mechanical hypochondriacs, I often wonder if my car is pulling fully, or if my TC is slipping and not reporting it to the VAGCOM.

So...I think we're going to have to meet up at Music City Raceway and go mano-a-mano, and have a comparison between mine and your completely refreshed car! :D

Oh, and I've found that sleeping in the car is quite comfortable:
- fold down rear seats
- lay down a thick blanket
- curl up with a pillow, and another blanket during the winter

My wife and I do this when making the Ann Arbor-Nashville run; one of us sleeps in heavenly comfort while the other drives. We've got it down to one refueling stop by starting with a full tank (Lima OH on the way up, Bowling Green KY on the way down), fast through southern Kentucky, attentive to cops in Ohio...anyways, we've done it in 7.5 hours.

Oh right, we were discussing torque converters....:P