Potential? AKA: Why was the RS6 I drove so...slow?

[slowguy]

Currently driving a stock A6 2.7T 6spd with 120K miles, overall good working order.

Last week, I looked over a stock 03RS6 with 120K miles. Required maintenance in order, but looked like it needed valve cover seals, timing chain tensioner seals, and so forth. Suspension felt good.

The test drive was surprising, not in a good way. After all the talk and hype, I was expecting something truly monstrous. The reality was, it felt similar to an S5, until about 4K/4.5K rpm. At that point, I could feel the turbos helping, then it felt like my 2.7T, and then, finally, on the top end, it felt better than the 2.7T.

It didn't feel much different than my current car, until 4500rpm...sure, that car would outrun my 2.7T, but not by much, and the biggest difference would be at speeds well over the limit anyway.

Browsing the FAQ, I noticed the 4.2T is prone to boost leaks.

Question time...feel free to play along, or laugh and flame, whichever is more appropriate.

Where should the stock turbos begin to make a difference?

I see many chips offered, but not much (if at all) in the way of turbos, coolers, parts for the mill itself. Why not?

What kind of potential does this engine have? Overbore, H-beam rods, larger turbos, twinscroll...?

As far as the appointments, I was actually less impressed by the all-black + CF trim than the tan + two-tone + fake wood in the A6. Is there an alternative interior, or is it better to just DIY?

My goal is a significantly overpowered sedan, capable of hauling 3 or 4 people over the Continental Divide on a moderately snow- and ice-covered road, with snowboarding gear...then turn around and take a couple girls to the ballet/opera/theater in style. The 2.7T does that in stock form, but I want more, and the choices are RS6 +IPT and a good bit of parts and wrenching, or keep the A6 and go +0.3L, Frankenturbos, ICs and so forth.

Thanks in advance...still wondering if the additional two cylinders is worth giving up the 6spd manual and the interior I like. Help a guy out, eh?

Thanks,
Sean

[ttboost]

You say it needed maintenance..maybe it was in limp mode? Limp mode is about 1/2 power...

[speedtrapped]

Not a chance the car was running right, before I did all my add ons, just a flash, gutted DP's and exhaust, I made 424/506 at the wheels at a RS6 dyno day....that's just a flash with a little more breathing...that is smoke a 2.7 power

[na1mt]

......sounds like you should just stick with your 2.7.

[lswing]

I drove two before buying, one a rocket, one a dog, guess which I'm driving:) The car I bought only had a REVO tune as far as I know, but felt like it had 100+ hp over the other, world of difference...limp mode, boost leak, hmmmmm...

[ben916]

Stock boost starts at around 2k and should really hit hard around 3k...
If I were you, I would run away from that one with 120k miles...

Also, if the RS6 is not warmed up (both water and oil), boost is limited

[srm369]

I drove two before buying
http://www.progtours.info/zhangwei2.jpg
http://www.progtours.info/zhangwei3.jpg
http://www.progtours.info/zhangwei5.jpg

[ttboost]

Yeah, stock, they are not rockets, but they will eat the a$$ out of a 2.7T. Be careful....selling price is right for a reason. That car could cost more than a perfect car. What is your location?

[vitalian]

What Ben said -- RUN AWAY! My car is bone stock, no mods, no flash, no nuthin', and it pinned me in the back of my seat with ease when I punched it on the freeway. Something is wrong with the car you drove.

[slowguy]

Good advice, I'll keep looking.

[Elevens]

Unless your looking to go cheap, there are some fine examples around here for sale. Modded and ready to go.....

[Chung]

Crusinrs6 went from a 2.7t to a RS6 and I am pretty sure he thinks the RS6 is much faster. I have never driven the 2.7t so it is hard for me to make a comparison. In my chipped car I feel the turbos at 2500 RPMs and it is a very strong pull.

As for interior, I have a piano black trim and I like it a lot. I don't think it was stock though and may have come from a A6 (previous owner installed it). Other simple improvements are the LED interior lighting which looks good on the white leather.

I will say I would rather manual than auto though.

[kismetcapitan]

an ECU flash is all these cars really need. That puts the car at around 520 or so bhp. That's a lot of power, and you should be feeling it.

the car you drove could have had all kinds of issues, including a slipping torque converter.

This is my first automatic car in my life, 23 years of driving. I've gotten used to it and as far as automatics go, it's very smooth. I only miss manual control when launching the car; the car's paddle shifters help in cornering if the transmission doesn't get it right, which is rare. I also had to get used to coasting and letting the transmission slow the car, uh, automatically, instead of shifting down and engine braking which was a very strong habit of mine.

The car would be faster with a manual I believe - torque converters create a lot of drivetrain loss.

I personally wouldn't bother getting into the engine, unless you have a lot of time and money to burn. The longblock is surprisingly reliable. A turbo upgrade will get you to 640bhp I think? You'll need a serious transmission rebuild to take that power though.

For a car with manic acceleration, your money would be better spent on a MkIV Supra or a Lancer Evo. Parts are a lot cheaper, ECUs are a dime a dozen, and you can swap conrods and pistons to your hearts content. I thought about modding for over 600bhp, but with the size of this car, I just don't think it's worth it.

I don't think I've seen anyone do it, but in theory the 4.2L should be good for 700-800bhp. Not sure if the required turbos would fit in the engine bay though, and the compression ratio would have to come down as well to about 8:1. At that point, the project would be costing you six figures.

[Jimmy]

I have both motors , a 2.7 and the 4.2....the 2.7 6 speed with stage I from O.Ct is pretty fast as far as 6cylinders go , the RS6 with MTM Stage I is a scary fast brute.

That car your drove sounds like it has major motor issues if it's not impressing you on a drive.

[Brav]

Could be a variety of issues with the RS6 you drove - from simple fix to something more difficult. Can't say without logs, inspections, etc.

As far as a nutty modding quest goes.. You may be better off with the 2.7 as there is a lot more big HP/ parts support, room to work on it, and you have the manual trans already.

[Elevens]

+1^^ Rich over at Viper Tuning I believe has the Older RS4 with the 2.7 and is pushing way over 700hp. So if you want to stay with the 6speed the 2.7 can be made ridiculously fast with heavy mods. I would have liked to have gone that route, but nothing replaces that Catless Milltek V8 Rumble. So Intoxicating..........................

[mmaturo]

That car is broken...but look for an unmodded car and do it yourself so you know where its been...there is plenty laying around unmolested...the transmissions are glass in these things. I had 5 including the original in my 89K miles car stock....it was ready for 6 when i traded it. Mine had an internment boost problem early on and drove like the car you drove...the tranny was cutting the boost way back...once that was fixed my car was probably one of the fastest stock...dyno'd at 394 at the wheels, low 4s to 60...fast enough. Everybody here now is mod happy but seriously you have to be careful unless you want to spend a quick $8K on a new trans out of the gate. The engine and turbos are bullet proof but nothing else is. I owned my car for over 6 years and still never thought the risk was worth it. My S5 though is tuned to 400hp...it can take it all around.

[Brav]

Some cars are stock and will blow 5 trannies. Other cars are modded but not abused and on same trans or for a long time. 60 k on mine since I bought it and just change tranny fluid w BND. And MTM chip.. my TC was replaced by previous owner once. Original trans. No problems at 151k miles.. kmock on wood. In the end its all a crap shoot.

[mmaturo]

Sure but this car it happens more than usual...Of the eight or 9 I knew of personally ALL had a tranny replaced when owned by guys I know...Only one friend of mine who still has his RS6 is on the original...at 33K still and its a garage queen. There is a warning here that these cars can cost you dearly or may be just fine but the odds are stacked against. You need to have $$ on hand and never stretch to buy this car. I went through a bunch of control arms too...2 sets upper and lowers in 30K WTF. I might add that all my other audis and bmw's have been fine...not my driving at fault folks.

[slowguy]

Good information. I've heard about the glass tranny from others...what have people done to improve its reliability? It sounds like there's a strong engine in front of a weak transmission, is that correct? Is there a common failure mode?

Does the S5 have an identical block? That's the other choice. At least one owner has installed turbos on their S5, and the manual is far more forgiving than the 01E transmission behind the 2.7T; it's a nice car, and comes used at a similar price point to an RS6.

[ttboost]

Regarding the RS6, the original weak spot was/is the Torque Converter. Around this time perid, Audi had an issue with weak seals in the TC, that would blow out, causing low line pressures, and was unfixable. Only fix was/is a new TC. If you continued to drive the car, line pressure would continuously decrease, causing the trnamission to slip, hence the bad tranny reputation. If you replace the TC with an newer/upgraded one, this will greatly extend the life of your transmission. They are however, NOT bulletproof. I don't think anyone really knows the power limitations of the stock transmission, but suffice to say, not many here have been or are anywhere near 500whp on a stock transmission for any reasonable amount of time, which is too bad, because the twin turbo V8 has WAY more potential than that. I'm quite sure the guys with the 6 speed conversions can easily get to 500+whp with very little effort. These cars have about a 25-30% driveline loss due to these tranmissions. Our cars are rated at 450hp, mine made 317whp on a dyno...that's 30%...even on a less stingy dyno..maybe 25%-27%?

[mmaturo]

The S5 coupe V8 is a different block but still a good engine...the RS6 has a unique engine from the rest of the line even though its a 4.2. I have the cabrio S5 with the V6 supercharger and it is rather impressive engine tuned. I'm not missing my RS6 that much with the 400hp I have with the Stasis tune and the dual clutch transmission. ttboost is proving how strong my engine was...it dyno'd stock at 394. Did two pulls stock then tried it with the Revo 4 hour trial but couldn't get the car to stay in gear to get a tuned pull on it. My car was a low 4 to 60 car. Even on the last day I owned it turning it in I outran a new vette grand sport convertible from 60 on up...it should have taken me with the same hp so clearly my car was well beyond 450.

He's dead on with the TC but it did take out my tranny every time. Fortunately all were under warranty. My first trans was right when i bought it so 26K on the clock and a housewife in Orlando drove it...I had to replace (got it under warranty thank goodness) the radio and AC units as she destroyed all the buttons with her nails. I doubt she was 'abusing' the car. Mine was a daily driver and I maintained it just fine but certainly enjoyed it as an RS6...which is the point...why have all the hp if you don't occasionally use it. There is good cars but there are too many that have seen a failure...besides what I said above i looked at a car for a current forum member at auction and its transmission was 100% inoperable...the dealer was going to take a huge hit on it as they realized they had a car they couldn't fix without well exceeding the value of it at resale. Its a warning. If you feel the signs on a test drive of unimpressive acceleration...or a hesitation then clunking into gear as you come to a stop as it goes to first gear, or if it hesitates abnormally long when you floor it at highway speeds and it dumps into gear its headed south soon. Main tell is the coming to a stop thing.

[slowguy]

Hang on, 6spd conversion? I thought it was deemed too weak, due to a bolt pattern mismatch. Have the conversions been holding up?

The S5 with a blower is certainly enticing, given the manual transmission.

There's a guy here offering an RS6 for 24, new transmission...too bad I'm not ready to buy right now.