Is this anyone from the board? (Shank?)

[Klint]

Is shank a member of the board?

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2611

Nice and congrats! :0:

How's the project coming along?

:cheers:

[Nordschleife]

Klint
I have briefly scanned this thread. Almost every statement made by Shank is untrue. I wouldn't hold your breath.
R+C

[Alan]

poster on the best Porsche websites and has done numerous mods to his car(s) (996tt). If he says he is doing mods to his new RS6... he is.

[Nordschleife]

OK, lets look at some of these statements of 'fact'


....... the Audi RS6. 1 of 980 made.

Several thousand have been made, over 1000 scheduled for the US.

The handling is very tight, almost no sway, and the car is GLUED to the road.

I wish this were true, however there is considerable sway, the turn-in is poor and Audi has boxed itself into an unfortunate corner, suspension too firm at low speeds and too soft at high speeds. Consequently, the car is not at its best on cross country roads.

But so far my favourite feature is the transmission and paddle shifters. The blips the throttle like the F1's and SMG's tranny.

No blips, no SMG or F1 like features, its a regular Getrag automatic tranmission, identical to what used to be found on Mercedes. It will hold gears however in S mode.



MTM in europe has upto 650 bullet proof HP.

Well somebody had better tell MTM about this then, you certainly won't hear this claim from MTM. There are problems with increasing power with the RS6. The two most obviously being lack of space for significantly bigger turbos (need to cut into the footwell) and the gearboxes ability to handle torque. Some tuners 'claim' to have upgraded the gearbox, the engineers at Getrag don't understand how. Without a gearbox upgrade, the engine should not be allowed to develop over 800 NM of torque, in fact it should be kept well under that figure.


So if I smell a whole heap of horse pucky about these 'claims', you will understand why!

R+C

[Alan]

but I also have several years of experience with Shank's posts and accomplishments with his p-car...so we'll see what happens

[JAXRS6]

I can't argue with most of them, but your comments on ride/handling are definitely opinions, not fact.

Also, I was surprised to hear you refer to a Getrag tranny in the RS6. I've read that it's ZF & seen a ZF post referring to the RS6. Can anyone clarify?

[Nordschleife]

Jax
You obviously haven't talked to a handling engineer.
R+C

[nene]

There is no need to bicker now. In due time we'll see if Shank will put his money where his mouth is!

Hope he joins this board though, as I'm not a member of the other forum. Really trying to cut down on how thin I spread myself.

What-ya-say Shank? Come join us?

[Erik]

He's here already :)

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2380

Check out his homepage :D

[JAXRS6]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
Jax
You obviously haven't talked to a handling engineer.
R+C

Correct -- and I see no need for that since we are simply exchanging opinions. IMO, after a trip of 6000+ miles on U.S. Interstate, mountain roads in the West, etc., I agree the turn-in could be better. My S4 is much better at that. But the other factors you mention -- especially "considerable sway" and "not at its best on cross country roads" -- are not evident in my car.

"Considerable sway" compared to what? A Porsche? Well of course! But compared to competing performance sedans, i.e. E55, S-type R and M5, all of which I drove before accepting my RS6, I just don't see significant differences.

So, can we agree to disagree & move on? Because I don't think anyone is going to change your opinion, or mine, on these ride & handling issues.

What I'd like to move on to is the transmission issue, which IS a matter of fact rather than opinion. Namely, you characterize the RS6 tranny as a Getrag identical to one use for a Benz; here in the U.S., I've been told it's a ZF.

Again, can someone clarify?

[nene]

The transmission for the RS6 is based on the one that is in the 12-cylinder A8. That transmission is a 5-speed ZF transmission.
Although some changes have been made to the computer system's technology to allow more driver control over the changing in gears, it's still a ZF-transmission.
I believe this same transmission is also on the VW Phaeton W-12.



Here you can can see that RS6 transmission is based on A8 12-cylinder (http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0308ec_grandprix08/)

Here you can read how the VW W-12 engine is same as A8 W-12, that includes the ZF 5-speed transmission (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=2477)

[Nordschleife]

Guys
As far as the gearbox is concerned, I was told that the getriebe (gearbox) was Getrag. As the engineers deal with both ZF and Getrag, it would be easy to confuse Getr(iebe)AG with ZF Getriebe. The next time I have an engine out, I'll have a look at the supplier's marks. The reason its 5-speed rather than 6-speed is that Mercedes was promised the first run of the 6-speed boxes and there were not sufficient to meet the requirements of the RS6 at the time the car's specification was frozen, given the predicted sales volumes of the new A8.

As far as quoting magazine articles and their car specifications, this is a practice best avoided. They are full of errors, without exception.

On the handling issue, I'm sorry its not a matter of opinion, it is not pleasant driving the car hard on cross country roads. I do think the dynamic ride control is a nice feature, but when on the open road, travelling at speed through a series of connected bends, which you cannot set the car up for, as you would on the track, at that point you notice that the car is too softly sprung, it rolls and takes so long to recover from the previousl corner that the next is already upon it.

Now I know you want the car to be terrific, and it is, as an Autobahn stormer. As a tool for the side roads its no fun atall.
My view is based upon having driven several different RS6s for over 30,000 km over the last 18 months, winter and summer, wet and dry, track and street, as driver and passenger, with World Champion drivers and with complete novices.
This is a car that run in very fast company indeed, once its suspension has been sorted, it will also be pleasurable for driver AND passenger.

R+C

[Finnus]

Nordschleife -

the car is too softly sprung, it rolls and takes so long to recover from the previous corner that the next is already upon it

So what can be done to "correct" this? Are after-market shock absorbers and suspension available? Wouldn't you sacrifice comfort in addressing this?

Personally, I'm very happy with the handling of the car - it is a 2 ton Beast after all ... and I agree with Jax that it is a matter of opinion. It seems to me that it all depends upon what you want the car to be.

IMO, as an all around drivable car, it's pretty impressive and just damn FUN!!! Isn't that what its all about?

:cheers:
Finnus
:addict: :addict: :addict:

[Nordschleife]

Finnus
Correcting the handling problem is not straightforward. Remember I said that Audi has painted itself into a corner as far as ride is concerned, too firm at low speed and too soft at high speed.
This suggests that there is a need to revisit the basics.
After market solutions may well sort out the spring problem but the shock absorber situation will require a little more work, the DRC complicates the issue.
Turn in can be improved, there are solutions available which change the camber. I wouldn't rush to change the suspension right now, give everybody a chance to work out what is best.
Incidentally, nobody really picked up on my post about the different suspension set-ups available for this car.

R+C

[LSM]

Hi guys,

That thread is in fact from Shank. He is a moderator on 6speedonline.com. Obviously it is a Porsche 911 Turbo board. He is extremely well respected and as previously mentioned, he had previously worked on a heavily modified Turbo. He now has a GT2 which has a really trick stereo system in it. He is working on modding the GT2 right now. As far as his Audi knowledge, i am sure he is just simply making mistakes because it is a new arena for him. He really is a car guy and with all th mis-information from dealers etc, it is rather easy to mis-speak. Give the guy some time and I guarantee the knowledge will definately be there. As far as moding the RS6, theree is no doubt in my mind Shnk will be heavily modifing his car. As far as his comments about handling etc, that is all subjective. I drove an RS6 and I think it handles great, "for a 4000 lb sedan." Hell, when I first got my 911 Turbo, I thought it was the greatest handling car ever. Now, I know there is tons of room for improvement. Anyway, I guess my point is, Shank is a great car guy. Even if he misquoted some things, we all start somewhere. Now, he knows and I am sure will not misqoute again. Cheers fellas:)

-Lou

[ShankRS6]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
OK, lets look at some of these statements of 'fact'


So if I smell a whole heap of horse pucky about these 'claims', you will understand why!

R+C



Hmmm, I just found this thread. Pretty interesting fellow. We have a few on my web forum too.

To clarify, as far as 980 built - thats what the dealer said. I went to two dealers - Audi Exchange (where the car was purchased) and Laurel Audi - both said approx 950 - 980 built. They could be wrong it wasn't the first time, or second, or third or fourth, or fifth..etc... that a dealer told me something inaccurate.

Being glued to the road - I test drove one at Schaumburg Audi, and I can say, I pushed it pretty hard, and to me (MY OPINION) that it sure as heck was GLUED to the road! Any questions?????????

Throttle blipping - Hell it sure sounds like it, when I downshifted, the revs go up.

As far as MTM mods and 650HP...... I spoke to someone at Hoppenmotorsport.com, and they stated 575HP is available here, and 650HP is available in Germany. Not to pass the buck along, but I don't go around - especially in my own forum tooting horns, and blowing smoke. So, Nordschleife, the only heap you smell must be your skeptic imagination.

For those that welcome me to the rs6 board, Thanks! This is my 3rd Audi, and most favourite one. I am infatuated with the Avus Silver color and have mods planned. On its way is Sportec Springs and 20" Sportec Wheels from Hartmann Motorsports, and looking forward to researching more options for chipping. Kinda toss up between APR and REVO with a Miltek or MTM exhaust. I had MTM products in my 2000 S4, but 36k for 575HP kit for the RS6 is not what I have planned. Hopefully APR, PES and some others will have some effective well rounded mods available at a reasonable price.

[JAXRS6]

We look forward to learning from you and with you.

BTW my dealer also quoted U.S. figures in the 900s, but when multiple threads on another forum suggested otherwise more recently, I called my "owner advocate," the guy AoA assigned to keep me happy (everyone should have an o.a. a few weeks after taking delivery). I asked him about quantities of the RS6 for the U.S., quoting rumors ranging from 1200 to 1500. He took a couple of days to get back to me, then said the U.S. allotment was "a little over a thousand" and that the 1200 figure was probably about right. But he would not give a specific figure, saying AoA refused to release one.

:incar:

[gjg]

Shank, I'm not sure you understood the information from Hoppen - max. you can currently buy from MTM is 568 HP 418 kW (DIN that is).

and, in all fairness to Nordsleife, I very seriously doubt you will have an opportunity to drive RS6 on US highway the way it is driven in Germany and the handling is, in high speed conditions, pretty much as desribed - been there.

gg

[noushy]

I would also like to say Welcome.

The purpose of a forum is to have meaningful discusssions amongst interested members. I welcome everyones input, especially when it comes to modifying their cars. I just purchased an RS6 (mugello blue) and this is my third audi as well (a4, s6 avant). The car may not handle like a sports car (ie. porsche, ferrari, elise, etc.) but for a 4000lb sedan, it is very stable and solid. There is always room for improvement, but that depends on each individuals taste. I had a heavily modified GS400, with 7k in suspension mods alone. It took corners very cleanly, and with minimal body roll, compared to the stock setup. But the ride was very harsh, and on michigans potholed freeways, I have spend over 3k repairing very expensive HRE wheels.

So Shank, good luck, and I look forward to reading about what you find. I noticed many chip mods that basically increase the boost, but I am looking for something more than that. There was an article about a company in one of the new england states (forgot the name) but they sold an intake, exhaust system and chip mod for the rs6 around 5k. The chip mod was 2500 by itself.:addict:

[Erik]

Shank,
I spoke to Sportec at the Essen Motorshow.

Their sports chassis is not ready yet (I guess you're only getting the springs though) and they couldn't even reply if they removed the DRC or not :error:

I love their rims!

They had a GT2 in their stand as well with some very nice carbon fibre details. However, there were many suppliers of similar details and I must say Sportec's looked the worst.

[ksurg]

I'm lost after reading this thread. I don't expect a RS-6 out of the box to outhandle a 966tt. However, being a relative newcomer to the sportsedan upper eschelon I don't believe the E55 or past M5 to be better options. All cars could be made better! It's hard to make a vehicle like the RS-6 a dedicated race car without compromising it in some other way. It has to subserve so many functions. It sure is a lot more fun to drive than an E55 and outpowers the existing M5. The comments about handling may or may not be true but it is all relative. You have to think "compared to what"! All these cars pale in handling compared to F1's but if I drove an F1 to work I would probably need a chiropracter when I got there.:argue:

[noushy]

Shank,
The company was stratmosphere, and here is a review of their car on audiworld.

http://www.audiworld.com/news/03/stratrs6/

Let me know what you do, or think of this car.

Noushy

[GmbHouse]

I have to say that I haven't been as impressed with the handling of my RS6 as I expected to be. My previous car was an MTM Stage IV A6 2.7T. I replaced the suspension with a Bilstein/H&R setup and it was amazing. Not only did that car corner better but it rode smother and was far less upset by road irregularities than my RS6. It feels like the rebound damping isn't quite right.