Transmission slipping when hot...need help...Tozo?! [Archive] - RS6.com

905084

February 11th, 2012, 21:58

Just finished the MAF problem and had a chance to romp the RS around. When it's cold it is amazing, as it gets hot (shifting a lot and driving hard) the transmission is completely coming out of gear. So much so that I barely made it home as it would slip out of gear even under light acceleration in first. No transmission codes at all and the only engine code was "Too rich, bank 1/2". Car was at the transmission shop and the fluid level was fine.

I'm thinking transmission fluid/filter/ or solenoid pack. Any ideas folks? Thanks.

4everRS

February 11th, 2012, 22:08

Tozo would know best, but the trans might actually be overfilled, causing the fluid to froth.

905084

February 11th, 2012, 22:38

Forgot to mention that I had the transmission level looked at by the guy that did my A6 4.2. He checked the level at the proper temp and looked at the color and said it looked good with no codes. At the time, I didn't have a good handle on the transmission slipping problem nor could I duplicate it. He didn't want to service it before I worked out the other "driveablity issues". Now definitely happens when hot.

TozoM8

February 11th, 2012, 23:56

If it slips that bad, you should have codes. Did you check it with vag-com? It is nearly impossible to overfill the trans.

905084

February 12th, 2012, 00:15

Tozo, yo da man! Checked with my cheap code checker and nothing...checked with my free VAGCOM (damn I'm cheap) and got "Load signal error from ECU..P18265, Mechanical failure intermittent" wouldn't have thought to check the VCDS...

905084

February 12th, 2012, 20:46

Pulled the pan. Oil looks a little dirty (like motor oil).

12274

Magnets don't look terrible for 103k

12275

Pan didn't have a whole lot of gunk on it.

12276

Anyone have any opinions? Going to put a new filter and fill it with fluid and see what happens. Going to find some LT71141 spec fluid of any brand I guess.

hahnmgh63

February 12th, 2012, 20:56

Fluid looks old & burnt, I bet it didn't smell very good but your right, not a lot of sludge and at least no large metallic chunks stuck to the magnets. You might even try to drain the trans oil cooler lines to get more of the old stuff out then you would only be left with the quart or so in the T.C. If you do the cooler, do the refill procedure then drive it for a few miles and check it again soon (after the fluid cools to within limits as there can be a bit of air in the system that just running it to temp at idle will not get out. I would be that most that have had the T.C. and/or tranny replaced are running a little low on fluid since most shops just check it once, especially since they would have to let it cool to do the procedure again.

TozoM8

February 12th, 2012, 21:05

Cut the filter's pickup pipe to 1/2". I use Mobil 1 ATF for the last 5 years without problems.

905084

February 12th, 2012, 21:09

Fluid did have a "special smell". I'll cut the pickup back, thanks Tozo. Do you know if the T/C has a drain to get almost all the fluid out?

TozoM8

February 12th, 2012, 21:10

There is no drain on the TC and it holds ~6qt.

905084

February 12th, 2012, 21:32

Pick up cut back to 1/2 inch. Pan looks like it is 3 1/4 deep and a full fill fills it right to the top. Just have to clean and put the pan back on and find some Mobil 1.....I really wish this was going to fix the slipping problem, but I have to say I have my doubts.

12277http://www.rs6.com/images/misc/pencil.png

TozoM8

February 12th, 2012, 21:48

It looks like you cut it to 3/8".

905084

February 12th, 2012, 22:17

Sharp...it is 3/8 on the front side, 1/2 on the back. My calibrated PVC saw is a little off. Do you think this will be a problem? The pan is about 3 1/4 deep, the stock filter puts the pickup at about 2 3/4 inches (again my calibrated eye so don't trust nothin'). That puts my pickup at 1/2 inch below/above stock at 2 1/4 inch. I've got to try it now 'cause it's all I got. I figure it may or may not work, and if it is the filter pickup I'll order another filter and flush some more fluid.

TozoM8

February 12th, 2012, 22:43

It should be fine.

kevin

February 13th, 2012, 00:13

What is the reason for shortening the pickup tube?

905084

February 13th, 2012, 00:20

Cause Tozo said to :) I'm sure he can 'splain it but I did it cause he said to...

TozoM8

February 13th, 2012, 00:39

If the pan was pushed just a bit during trans install or hitting something on the road the pan will be too close to the filter. Here is a picture. http://audipages.com/tozo/DSC03676.JPG You can see the fluid flow built up a debris ring on the middle of the pan showing how close the filter was. As the trans warms up the pan even caves in more. If you put a magnet where the pipe is, sometimes it touches the filter when you trying to bolt it up. the magnet is only like 3/16" thick. I always cut the filter to 1/2" and never had problems since. You probably know BMW uses the same trans and their filter don't even have the pipe just a bid oval hole.

aussie rs6

February 13th, 2012, 08:52

why cut the trans pick up tube?

to ensure no oil starvation and associated transmission whine as new filter replacements for the generic trans in the RS6 all look alike to the shop mechanics, but are not, as some are too shallow.

see post http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/23572-transmission-whine-after-trans-oil-change-the-dreaded-torque-converter?p=225170#post225170

905084

February 16th, 2012, 00:11

Fluid and filter today and no help. Temp was good upon filling, drove a little and let it cool to 40c and refilled. On the up side, the first time I drove it I got code 17114 and did get the transmission to go to limp mode. Cleared the code and drove some more...slipping terribly now. I can get the fault to occur while in drive with the brake on. First gear, run the RPM's up to between 1500 and 2000 and BAM!, car shudders and acts like it goes to neutral then back into gear. The transmission is then in limp mode with the 17114 code. Seems to me the pressure is getting dumped somewhere...T/C seal?

TozoM8

February 16th, 2012, 00:57

It is not the TC seal. 17114 is incorrect gear ratio. Clutch A is slipping. You have input speed but no output speed so it is slipping. Try to get it up to 45mph in 5th gear tip and try to accelerate with like 50-70% throttle. If it is fine then you definitely need new clutches for clutch Av which means you need a rebuild. If I remember correctly, that trans was rebuilt recently.

4everRS

February 16th, 2012, 00:57

905084

February 16th, 2012, 02:01

Tranny has never been rebuilt that I know of. I'll try the 5th gear pull tomorrow in Tip and see what it does. I do remember before I started this that on the highway at say 65 and going to WOT it would behave the same (jump out of gear).

TozoM8

February 16th, 2012, 02:12

30c-50c.

TozoM8

February 16th, 2012, 02:15

WOT is not good because it will downshift. Just stay in 5th in tip and go 50-70% throttle so it stays in 5th with locked TC.

905084

February 16th, 2012, 02:24

I'll try that tomorrow. My trans is running about 70-80 c running around town. Is that about normal operating temp?

TozoM8

February 16th, 2012, 03:45

Yes, it is normal.

905084

February 16th, 2012, 20:14

Ok, rechecked the fluid level and added a couple of ounces. Still slipping but seemed to be slipping at a higher temp. Tried 5th gear in Tip at 45 with 50-75 percent throttle with no slip. Came across a post on the Bimmer forum from a guy with a ZFHP24A in an 2002 X5 with the exact same problem. I understand why you had me check the trans in Tip Tozo, the "A" clutch pack is used in gears 1-4 while it isn't in 5th.

So it appears that my "A" clutch pack is failing. Now in an attempt to try to get my son though college before I take a 3rd mortgage on the house to pay for this, is there anything I can use to get this thing through another say 10,000 miles before a rebuild? I did come across one post on here about Lucas Transmission additive. Anyone have any experience with anything like this?

TozoM8

February 16th, 2012, 20:35

Unfortunately Lucas don't make an additive that glues ripped o-rings back together.

905084

February 16th, 2012, 20:48

Unfortunately, my magic wand is in the shop too.....guess the RS will sit till the banks loosen up their lending and let me back in the door :)

SteveKen

February 16th, 2012, 20:57

What's the going rate for a rebuild these days? With labor, without labor, etc.

905084

February 16th, 2012, 21:14

Just had my son's A6 4.2 done. $4500 with 2 new CV joints for everything. I figure the RS will be a little more because of the labor. My wife begged me not to even take the tranny out of the A6. He charged $500 to take it out, $500 to put it in, $500 for the converter, about $750 for the rebuild kit, $750 for the labor to rebuild, $250 for both CV joints. Had to buy my own range sensor because the only one the shop could find was $560 from Audi and I wasn't going to pay that (got one for $90). Plus fluids and tax,tag, and title and you are up to about $4500.

Tozo would know better about actual costs.

905084

February 17th, 2012, 14:40

Used transmission on the way :) Now to decide engine out or engine in..

Brav

February 17th, 2012, 18:11

A good mechanic familiar with the RS6 can drop the engine and trans in half a day. Aka 500 bucks. Assuming this for your guy, I would pull it all and have a good look around and fix all the cheap parts that can be accessed for "free"this go around. Trans only can be done.... but in the end may cost more because it will take more time

905084

February 17th, 2012, 20:11

"A good mechanic familiar with the RS6"

Therein lies the problem...plus tying up his shop while I source parts. I'm thinking I can do this, but it has to be in the summer and I'd really like to do everything at once because the down time is killing me. I've worked on this car for more hours than I have put miles on it.

4everRS

February 17th, 2012, 20:35

Used transmission on the way :) Now to decide engine out or engine in..

Where did you get it?

kevin

February 17th, 2012, 21:20

I've worked on this car for more hours than I have put miles on it.

Haha! You knew that going in though right? ;)

speedtrapped

February 17th, 2012, 22:32

I know I shill my extra RS6 trans, but I do have a fresh rebuilt, and new TC sitting on a pallet if anyone interested. Never been used, not including shipping, $3k

905084

February 17th, 2012, 22:49

Tranny from eBay, hopefully be good for something. Kevin...no, unfortunately I didn't. Never had something so finicky but you know what? I'd do it again in a heartbeat because when it's good it is oh so good! Kinda like that crazy woman (I'm sorry, not PC I know) that you can't give up. 5150...

kevin

February 17th, 2012, 23:24

Lancerator

February 17th, 2012, 23:36

Id take a good look at the tranny. He had a listing a week before that didnt sell and said it was slipping in first and second and had 45k on it. Next week 50k on tranny and no problems. Thought it was TC. Im assuming you got the one out of NY.

905084

February 17th, 2012, 23:40

Skooled....I should know better. Thanks Lancerator, I'll check that...Thanks

Lancerator

February 18th, 2012, 00:00

Nah Im like you see a good deal and bite... FYI on ebay always check completed listings(button down on left side of page) shows you all expired and sold listings. Gives you an idea if stuff has been relisted over and over and a ball park for what is selling and for what price.

905084

February 18th, 2012, 00:04

Not terribly upset cause the core on a 5HP24A is about $700, but still.....I hate being misled....but, I really should know better.

hahnmgh63

February 18th, 2012, 03:23

If anyone is interested I have a good core tranny from my car. It was fine when I pulled it at 66K. I had purchased the old Raven Motorsports tranny from their 01E swap and had it rebuilt as a just in case, then I broke the Turbo stud and needed to pull the engine so I figured out I might as well do it all at once since we all know the stock trannies days are numbered short from the time they roll out of the factory. I did sell the T.C. already.

sbcrc86

August 16th, 2012, 00:10

My transmission is doing the exact same thing and at the mech now for a fluid flush. Mine however will drive fine for a good 30 min of city driving before it starts disengaging and engaging roughly in 2nd and 3rd. Im going to start pondering option for transmission replacement or rebuild. Does anybody know of or recommend shop that I can send the trans to for rebuild?

905084

August 16th, 2012, 01:10

Generally a flush won't help, just a good way of losing $300 in fluid filter and labor before it all has to be done .....again. If he hasn't started I can help you through a little basic troubleshooting. Tozo is the master and he helped diagnose mine. If it slips when hot in 1st-4th it is the A clutch (which mine was). You can test this by putting the car in 5th and putting it in Tip mode (to hold it in 5th) and accelerating. If it doesn't slip it is the A clutch because it is the only clutch not used in 5th. You can also when it get hot put it in gear and powerbrake the trans and see if it slips out of gear. Should go to TQ stall speed (I believe about 1800rpm for a stock TQ) and not slip. Please be careful when you do this test.

I "fixed" mine for $3.50 because I did not have the $6000 for the trans pull and rebuild. Bypass the EVS-1?? solenoid in the trans with 2- 5ohm resistors in parallel from Radioshack. Forces the trans line pressure to high all the time. Been flogging mine for 1000 miles so far with only limited issues. If money is no object, send the whole car to Tozo or another RS6 specific shop and have them rebuild/install.

Good luck.

Brav

August 16th, 2012, 01:40

I "fixed" mine for $3.50 because I did not have the $6000 for the trans pull and rebuild. Bypass the EVS-1?? solenoid in the trans with 2- 5ohm resistors in parallel from Radioshack. Forces the trans line pressure to high all the time. Been flogging mine for 1000 miles so far with only limited issues.

Wow, MacGyver!

905084

August 16th, 2012, 02:24

A true artist would have fixed the problem with TCU software.....I'm just a hack mechanic with no more money to blow.

sbcrc86

August 16th, 2012, 02:32

HMM I like the idea of bypassing EVS-1. What are the potential risks off driving the car with this mod?

Brav

August 16th, 2012, 03:22

HMM I like the idea of bypassing EVS-1. What are the potential risks off driving the car with this mod?

Activating the flux capacitor, and ending up in 1985. Or 2212.

I wish I knew what EVS-1 is. I'm guessing its not that old GM electric car.

905084

August 16th, 2012, 14:30

Sorry folks, it is actually EDS-1. This is the solenoid that reduces the line pressure in your trans to make the shifts smooooooth and sliiiiiiiipery. Mine was slipping in 1-4 so Tozo said it was the A clutch. Actually quite a common problem with the 5HP24A according to Google.

Bypassing it is not without its faults. It kicks when going from P-R-N-D. It also kicks when downshifting from 5-4 under low or no throttle.

I did it because I wanted just a sliver of fun with the beast before the trans had to come out. It is possible that this will wear or even destroy some of the hard parts of the trans in anywhere from 50 to 50000 miles.

Right now I am willing to live with this until all the other issues are sorted (or I win the lotto) and I get my core rebuilt so I don't have to live without the beast for 2 months.