Picked up a Vag-Com, Got a few codes back

[Tom Sawyer]

So I picked up a Vag-Com, pretty essential gear with an Audi (IMHO), but also in prep for an RNS-E and wanting to code the locks etc.

Naturally I ran a full scan and it came back much cleaner than some scans I've seen, but I did get a few that I thought I'd run past the forum and get your thoughts on. I've got no MIL lights, car runs beautifully, shifts beautifully, no slipping etc. I suppose some of these codes could be 'old' so after I printed the list out I cleared and will run another scan after 100 miles or so.


Engine:

16985 - Internal Control Module
P0601 - 001 - Memory Check Sum Error - MIL ON (it's not)
16955 - Brake Switch (F)
P0571 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
17983 - Right Engine Mount Solenoid Valve (N145)
P1575 - 001 - Short to Plus

Trans: (this one worries me of course)

17125 - Torque Converter Clutch
P0741 - 003 - Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred - Intermittent

ABS

01119 - Gear Recognition Signal
35-10 - - - Intermittent
FWIW: My front brakes were shot and the light was on for those, during the time I was waiting for ECS to get the parts to me, the ABS light came on. Once I got the rotors/pads installed, all lights went off.

Seat Mem. Drvr (I've noticed that occasionally the seat wont move... but scooting around a bit, basically wiggling the seat or removing pressure will get it moving. Really interested if anyone has seen this before and might know a remedy. In the mean time I've turned off driver seat memory to keep it from moving around)

3 faults, 01445, 01446, 01448 - All mention Sensor for Driver Seat for either Fore/Aft, Seatback, or Tilt Adjust.


As always, appreciate any thoughts and advice on these. I'll follow up with the results of my rescan too.

[4everRS]

For the engine codes, the check sum could be a chip tune that needs updated (mtm had this issue for a while), or could be as simple as the battery was too low on voltage. The engine mount can relate to the short to plus. The positive batt cable that goes to the alternator can rub on that engine mount and short the mount and throw that code. This happened to me and it also shorted my voltage regulator too.

The trans codes don't look good. An easy way to see if the converter is locking up is to warm up the engine, set cruise at 60(or anywhere really), then hit the accel on the cruise stalk to increase 1 mph. If the rpm needle moves more that 100 rpm, your converter isn't locking for sure. I know your code already indicates this, but it's a good mechanical way to check.

[Tom Sawyer]

For the engine codes, the check sum could be a chip tune that needs updated (mtm had this issue for a while), or could be as simple as the battery was too low on voltage. The engine mount can relate to the short to plus. The positive batt cable that goes to the alternator can rub on that engine mount and short the mount and throw that code. This happened to me and it also shorted my voltage regulator too.

The trans codes don't look good. An easy way to see if the converter is locking up is to warm up the engine, set cruise at 60(or anywhere really), then hit the accel on the cruise stalk to increase 1 mph. If the rpm needle moves more that 100 rpm, your converter isn't locking for sure. I know your code already indicates this, but it's a good mechanical way to check.


Appreciate the info, I'll have the shop check on that mount short when the 75K service is done in a few months. Will give the cruise test a try and see how that goes. If I'm looking at a TC, what do you think I should plan on for that, can I wait for a while on this (would be nice to recover from brakes, CV's and upper arm controls)... I see you have an ACE Converter, those seem to be pretty highly recommended. I am sure my shop would install that for me (I brought my own raxles recently and they installed them with no problem). Labor will be the ugly part, the TC from ACE is 'only' $424.50.

Also makes me wonder if I should just go ahead and do the extended warranty ($5K) if the car will pass the pre-inspection for that. Easycare at the local Audi dealer. Trying not to stress too much about this, but that's not easy being fairly obsessive about my vehicles. :lovl:

[kilian tuning]

For the engine codes, the check sum one, ive got the same errorcode, solved by Viper Tuning.
Rich (from viper tuning...) said he was amazed i did drive it for that long with the code error...it would easily just stop workong...(ecu) mine was probably abt or mtm tuned. he removed the tune and put it back to standard, everything is fine now...

[4everRS]

You should update your location. I would try to find a shop who has at least one experience pulling the engine on an rs6. Pat and I did the TC on my car, leaving the engine in the car. Would have been easier and maybe even faster to drop the engine. Kevin in IA had his assembly out in about 4 hours. But he does it for a living. My guess is that most shops will do the whole job in about 12 - 15 hours. If they have expierence. You'll need a new filter, gasket, oring, and fluid as well.

As far as the warranty goes, you're probably too late. I guess you can clear codes and hope to pass, but you could also get in some trouble if they find out. Disclaimer: I wouldn't officially recommend it.

The ace TC seems very good. Andre at ACE/Edge Racing, is very knowledgeable and helpful.

[NSU RS6]

For the engine codes, the check sum could be a chip tune that needs updated (mtm had this issue for a while), or could be as simple as the battery was too low on voltage. The engine mount can relate to the short to plus. The positive batt cable that goes to the alternator can rub on that engine mount and short the mount and throw that code. This happened to me and it also shorted my voltage regulator too.

The trans codes don't look good. An easy way to see if the converter is locking up is to warm up the engine, set cruise at 60(or anywhere really), then hit the accel on the cruise stalk to increase 1 mph. If the rpm needle moves more that 100 rpm, your converter isn't locking for sure. I know your code already indicates this, but it's a good mechanical way to check.

If this is true (not doubting you) this would be step 1 in surveying an RS6 for purchase. I will try this soon.

[4everRS]

If this is true (not doubting you) this would be step 1 in surveying an RS6 for purchase. I will try this soon.

Anyone can do this wether their converter is good or not. When the car is cold when driving it, the converter won't lock up. You'll see as the car is warm the converter will now lock up. 1 mph increase on the cruise stalk only move the needle what the increased engine speed does. If you have a bad trans temp sensor, this will cause the converter not to lock. This will eventually wreck the TC.

[lswing]

I'm going to assume your CEL has been coming on. The test I did for my TC was; Tip mode, 5th gear, 50mph, give it gas and you'll see the rpm's rise about 300-600 before the speedo moves...

You'll need to send the core TC from your car to ACE, then it's a 3-4 day turnaround, $450. $1,500 or so in labor to have the trans and tc pulled, new tc put back in...running a bad tc can lead to air bubbles in the fluid getting into the trans and causing damage I believe...

[Brav]

I have that same gear recognition singnal error as well. Doesn't throw a light but always shows up eventually. Wish I could figure it out.

May have t do with when I go wot from 3rd to 4th, I get tract in control light on solid then yes away after a few seconds. But doesn't doo it in tip mode.

[Tom Sawyer]

So this has been an interesting experiment indeed. First off, as always greatly appreciate the tips and ideas on checking.

I did a lot of driving around town today (100+ miles, city/highway mix, even some stop and go traffic) and did the test you mentioned several times. In every case (once the car was warmed up) the RPMs did not bump up at all (without the car speeding up as well). Did this with cruise on, a few different speeds (60, 65, 70, 140 :hahahehe:) and in each case the tach did not move disproportionate to the speedo. I just got back from the days activities, ran a scan, and no codes (well other than the seat one and the ECU and engine mount short). I'm feeling cautiously optimistic....

VERY interesting info on the ECU code. When I posted my car to the vin compile the list mod mentioned the car had been on the list some time back and there was indication it may have been chipped. First off, now that I have a VAG-COM, is there a way I can determine if it is chipped using the software/scan? I never ended up poping out the ECU since it sounds like those are software coded anyway through the ODBC port unlike my B5 S4 from years back.

If it turns out I do have a tuned program and it needs updated, the next question is how to get it updated but I guess I'll worry about that once I determine what is going on with the ECU.

[kday]

I gather that software can be flashed over the OBD port, but some of it wasn't. I have a spare ECU with a MTM chip in it, and it has a little decoder board inside and an MTM sticker. It also throws the checksum error.

Not sure how to tell which software you're running from VAG-COM.

[Brav]

You may be able to figure out at least if it is chipped or not.. do some logs of requested/actual boost, as well as individual MAF readings. the volume of air will tell you if its significantly higher than stock or not. If chipped you are probably running over 1BAR.

[4everRS]

Ok here is a couple of quick vids on what I mean in my above comments.

Bear with this, it's my first uploads to YouTube. I should have taken the vid holding the phone on its side. This is when the engine/trans cold.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hol5IYqFL6Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And now after the engine/trans warms up a little.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vwdhlrdaxdg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[dcsweet]

4everRS, great videos and it really helps to understand TC's a little better, thanks.

[Tom Sawyer]

Thanks for posting the videos, that's exactly what I experienced (cold and warm version). Feeling some relief on that one, always possible the code was old and not cleared after the problem was resolved.

I'll do some logging this weekend, that should answer the ECU issue. My gut tells me it's tuned, question then will be do I worry about the 'Checksum Error' or let it go. Also going to try to figure out the drivers seat issue, hopefully it is just a bad connection somewhere. With the way it acts with being able to get it moving by shifting my weight around makes me think connection since it does it with every adjustment, not just fore/aft.

Upper control arms are going on today, last suspension piece to sort out. She should be riding like new, one was pretty much metal on metal and the rest not far behind. After that will be coilovers and sways but that will be a project for '13.

[Keihin]

Hi Tom.

Just want to share my experience, as my TC died just after I bought mine last year.

The test you have been doing, is for a dead TCC, not a soon-to-be-dead, IMHO.

You need to put maximum torque on it when hot. Let's say 3. or 4. gear in tiptronic, uphill, and then punch it. Then leave it there until redline. If it slips, you'll know. It feels like kickdown. The TCC will then re-engage after you get off the throttle, but only once or twice IIRC. After that, it will stay open until reboot, and you will find the dreaded 17125 again...

This is how mine died, but I have the MTM TCU. I'm not sure how the stock TCU acts in comparison, but shouldn't be too different.

[Tom Sawyer]

Hi Tom.

Just want to share my experience, as my TC died just after I bought mine last year.

The test you have been doing, is for a dead TCC, not a soon-to-be-dead, IMHO.

You need to put maximum torque on it when hot. Let's say 3. or 4. gear in tiptronic, uphill, and then punch it. Then leave it there until redline. If it slips, you'll know. It feels like kickdown. The TCC will then re-engage after you get off the throttle, but only once or twice IIRC. After that, it will stay open until reboot, and you will find the dreaded 17125 again...

This is how mine died, but I have the MTM TCU. I'm not sure how the stock TCU acts in comparison, but shouldn't be too different.

Hmm... this tests sounds a bit more fun than the Cruse test (no offense 4everRS!). :hihi: I'll give it a whirl on my way in tomorrow, have a good hill in mind to try this out on at the end of my commute.

[ben916]

Hi Tom.

Just want to share my experience, as my TC died just after I bought mine last year.

The test you have been doing, is for a dead TCC, not a soon-to-be-dead, IMHO.

You need to put maximum torque on it when hot. Let's say 3. or 4. gear in tiptronic, uphill, and then punch it. Then leave it there until redline. If it slips, you'll know. It feels like kickdown. The TCC will then re-engage after you get off the throttle, but only once or twice IIRC. After that, it will stay open until reboot, and you will find the dreaded 17125 again...

This is how mine died, but I have the MTM TCU. I'm not sure how the stock TCU acts in comparison, but shouldn't be too different.

I have no place to test this without Ponch and John putting me in Lompoc or Alcatraz...
What would 3rd gear @ WOT = XXX mph???

[Brav]

I have no place to test this without Ponch and John putting me in Lompoc or Alcatraz...
What would 3rd gear @ WOT = XXX mph???

ya right, drive out to the 15!

[lswing]

I hit about 98mph in 3rd...:)

I've posted this a few times, and it worked to diagnose/confirm my TC failure....5th gear, Tip, hit the gas, RPM's go up, Speedo does not...

[Tom Sawyer]

I have no place to test this without Ponch and John putting me in Lompoc or Alcatraz...
What would 3rd gear @ WOT = XXX mph???

Oh wow... I did not even think about that, haven't done the calculation based on our ratios but that would have to be north of 90mph! I think I'll run out of hill and as you say, have a big issue if a cop is around. Of course, keep in mind my previous Audi was an '04 S4 and my inbetween car for the last year and a half (I kid you not) was an 09 Corolla. Yes, I went from a toyota corolla to an Audi RS 6. Most day's I have to wear a diaper while driving.... :lovl:

[4everRS]

Mine shifts right at about 100

[Tom Sawyer]

Mine shifts right at about 100

Yep, the hill I have in mind will definitely not work for this test!

[Keihin]

Hey, I'm the one that should be whining about speeds ;-) Living in Norway where traffic violations have more consequences than violence (I kid you not). We loose our license going more than 15-20mph over the limit, and the fines are insane.

Anyway, it's the torque that matters, so try anyway. Main thing is to keep the pedal down through the peak of the torque curve. Also try 2. gear, but it's harder to feel it slip there. If you manage to do it several times until it gives up, you definitively will notice. As the TC will act as cold, jumping up and down several 100 rpms when alternating between acceleration and engine braking.

[hahnmgh63]

If I lived in Norway I would be in jail I guess. I usually hit speed limit + 50~60mph on the way home on a secluded country highway occaisonally.

[4everRS]

If I lived in Norway I would be in jail I guess. I usually hit speed limit + 50~60mph on the way home on a secluded country highway occaisonally.

Yikes! Me too. The needle tickled 140 just yesterday for me. At least we'd be in jail together Mark.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ok, things continue to look good. Had the opportunity last night to put it to the test (first time I've run it hard for more than a quick accel here and there.. and now I fully understand why they call her 'Beast'!). First of all, if nothing else, I'm pretty sure my TCU is chipped as I consistently touch redline on shifts. I'm guessing the stock TCU shifts well below the first ticks of red on the tach?

Anyway, I did not have any significant hills to test on but ran through 2nd and 3rd through the RPM range at or near WOT several times and didn't feel any kind of slipping. The rpm's rose FAST of course but the car pulled hard through the gears. Tried this in Tip mode and also in S mode, same results. After several spirited runs, 5 minutes of 'normal' driving and the TC was locking in with no creep up in RPMS with little throttle blips or the cruise test. Just to be sure, I ran a scan this morning and no transmission code, same ECU/Mount code on the engine. Again, cautiously optimistic but feeling like I can relax a bit on this and move on to the next thing.

I'm going to do some logging of boost and MAF today and see if I can confirm the chipped/stock status.

[Keihin]

Ok, things continue to look good. Had the opportunity last night to put it to the test (first time I've run it hard for more than a quick accel here and there.. and now I fully understand why they call her 'Beast'!). First of all, if nothing else, I'm pretty sure my TCU is chipped as I consistently touch redline on shifts. I'm guessing the stock TCU shifts well below the first ticks of red on the tach?


I have never driven a RS6 with stock TCU, but all I read is that the 'D' program is untouched. Only tiptronic is changed. Faster gear change and TCC more in full lock than stock.

Do you get kickdown in tiptronic mode? (Pressing the kickdown switch)? Mine never does, and I believe it does stock.



Anyway, I did not have any significant hills to test on but ran through 2nd and 3rd through the RPM range at or near WOT several times and didn't feel any kind of slipping. The rpm's rose FAST of course but the car pulled hard through the gears. Tried this in Tip mode and also in S mode, same results. After several spirited runs, 5 minutes of 'normal' driving and the TC was locking in with no creep up in RPMS with little throttle blips or the cruise test. Just to be sure, I ran a scan this morning and no transmission code, same ECU/Mount code on the engine. Again, cautiously optimistic but feeling like I can relax a bit on this and move on to the next thing.

I'm going to do some logging of boost and MAF today and see if I can confirm the chipped/stock status.

Sounds good. I just can't see any reason why the TCC should fail once and then act nice again. Maybe low on oil at some point.
Or like the previous owner did on mine; remove the chipped ECU when the TCC started to fail... :doh:

[Tom Sawyer]

Hmm... I'm going to have to check that specifically, but I think I might get kickdown in tip mode. I may be wrong then on the chipped tcu. I assumed the biggest thing was raising the shift points to redline (or closer).

That is a bummer indeed on the previous owner covering the TCC issue. As with any used car on the open market, the previous owner sold it for some reason. I feel like I got a well maintained car but t did need attention (brakes/rotors, cv boot and upper control arms). Very possible those pending repair costs were enough to put the owner in ready to trade mode. It was serviced at the dealer its whole life so at Audi's price for brakes ($1600 is what I was quoted, did it myself for 1/2!), CVs (who knows) and upper arm controls (probably $1500+) that may have been enough. When my local shop does the UAC's next week I'll have him check levels to make sure.

[Tom Sawyer]

Quick update: I definitely get kickdown when in Tip mode, so my assumption on a chipped TCU was incorrect (assuming that is a good indication). I don't know where the shift points are supposed to be stock and where they are with a chipped TCU, but mine do just touch the first red indicator give or take when I run it through the RPM's. I was going under the assumption that a bone stock RS6 shifted way under redline but that may have been incorrect as well.

Did not get a chance to do any logging, but if it turns out that my ECU is not tuned, then the news is not so good as far as the ECU engine code I'm throwing... perhaps a bad ECU.

That's ok, she's getting new upper arm controls right now, should drive and ride much better.

[marklar182]

Giac TCU will also kick down in Tip mode. (MTM does not)

Only way to truly tell is pull the TCU and take a look inside.

[Tom Sawyer]

Giac TCU will also kick down in Tip mode. (MTM does not)

Only way to truly tell is pull the TCU and take a look inside.

Ah, good to know. Ok, will dive into that hopefully this weekend to get a 'final answer'. Thanks!

[Tom Sawyer]

Will ACE ship out a converter without a core and let you ship the core back? Threw the code again so it looks like there is an intermittent issue just as the code says. I guess I'll baby it for a while until I can get it in the shop for the repair.

[lswing]

Nope, he needs the core to build. Find one to ship to him...

[Tom Sawyer]

Nope, he needs the core to build. Find one to ship to him...

Thanks... I'll search around to see if I can find one; I'm guessing the RS 6 TC is specific to our cars, a 'regular' A6 4.2l unit is different? Sounds like they build it better than stock and seem to be the best option for resolving the TC issues, just have to figure out how to minimize my down time. I suppose there is always a rental, may just bundle this repair in with the 75k service.

[kevin]

Just checked torque conv. part numbers. They are different than the ordinary 4.2L

[JCviggen]

Will ACE ship out a converter without a core and let you ship the core back? Threw the code again so it looks like there is an intermittent issue just as the code says. I guess I'll baby it for a while until I can get it in the shop for the repair.

Mine did that before I decided to rebuild it. It's just gone basically. The TC clutch will hold some ( but not much) torque so you won't get the code until you load it sufficiently to slip. That's why I don't think the cruise control + 1mph test is a very good one - it provides insufficient load on the clutch. Well it's a good test to do AFTER you do a few kickdowns. When the TC clutch slips twice the TCU will disable the clutch and not lock up any longer. At that point you will see that adding 1mph to cruise results in more revs than it should.
But after every start it will reset and try to lock up the clutch again as normal, until slippage is detected (twice).

With vagcom you can monitor the trans input and output speed as well as TC lock-up status and input torque. With a failed TC you can then clearly see slippage from X torque onwards while it is supposed to be locked up. IIRC mine slipped with as little as 200Nm of torque.

[lswing]

Thanks... I'll search around to see if I can find one; I'm guessing the RS 6 TC is specific to our cars, a 'regular' A6 4.2l unit is different? Sounds like they build it better than stock and seem to be the best option for resolving the TC issues, just have to figure out how to minimize my down time. I suppose there is always a rental, may just bundle this repair in with the 75k service.

See if Shokan has one. I bought one from a rs6.com user for $250 I think....then resold the old one from my car for the same price a few months later, easy enough. Good luck!

PS; Did the same with a TCU, and now with my K04s, limited parts get bought eventually...

[Tom Sawyer]

See if Shokan has one. I bought one from a rs6.com user for $250 I think....then resold the old one from my car for the same price a few months later, easy enough. Good luck!

PS; Did the same with a TCU, and now with my K04s, limited parts get bought eventually...

Thanks for the tip, I'll give them a call. That seems like a good plan to keep the downtime at a minimum. This sucks, but is also something I had prepared myself for.

I noticed on A.C.E's page there are a ton of different options to seemingly 'configure' your TC... stall speed, etc etc. Are those parameters I need to choose?

Update: No luck with Shokan. It's probably going to be a bit tough to find one. Hmm... this might be a nice pay it forward thing. If we could find one of these and cycle the 'duds' through the Forum, we could truly minimize everyone's downtime. Just takes one!

I'll keep hunting....

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm going to assume your CEL has been coming on. The test I did for my TC was; Tip mode, 5th gear, 50mph, give it gas and you'll see the rpm's rise about 300-600 before the speedo moves...

You'll need to send the core TC from your car to ACE, then it's a 3-4 day turnaround, $450. $1,500 or so in labor to have the trans and tc pulled, new tc put back in...running a bad tc can lead to air bubbles in the fluid getting into the trans and causing damage I believe...

Another interesting thing on this is that I've never gotten a CEL and the TC is locking in. I would really think that I'd get a CEL if the thing was failing but maybe not. I may just have my shop do a full trans fluid/filter service when in for the 75K and see how things fare from there. I'm going to call them and see what their approach will be on the TC replacement (engine drop or just the transmission). If it's the full engine combining the two is probably my best bet from the standpoint of trying to minimize the labor costs.

[Keihin]

I drove mine 2000 kilometers after the TCC failed completely. But no CEL at all.