Turbo Oil Leak – Step 1: Remove Engine

[SFJ_RS6]

Hello All,

I bought my RS6 about a year ago. It’s blue with light grey interior and carbon fiber trim. It’s a fantastic car that I love to drive. Related, I was very glad to find this forum with all of your experience and knowledge, and your willingness to share information and help. Although I’ve been following the forum for a while, I’m posting now to share an experience and hoping that you can give me some help.

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A couple of weeks ago with 72K miles on the odo, my RS6 developed a fairly significant oil leak at the rear of the right hand cylinder bank. It didn’t look like it was coming from the valve cover, and with the wheel off I could see oil dripping off the RH turbo down onto the CV boot heat shield as shown.

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So the next step was a closer look at the turbo to confirm the source of the leak. Based on what I could (more like couldn’t!) see, and confirmed by Bentley, Step 1: Remove Engine.

I’ve owned several Audis and have a fair amount of experience working on them, but haven’t removed an engine before. But, with the help of Bentley and threads on this forum I’ve successfully got the engine on my workbench.

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What I find is that the apparent source of the leak is a loose banjo bolt at the fitting for the oil supply line at the turbo. The bolt was noticeably loose when I turned it with an Allen wrench. I’m guessing it was not tightened properly when the previous owner had the TC seal replaced, and over time it loosened and began leaking. My plan is to get new washers for the banjo fitting and torque to spec, and I think that will fix the oil leak. Has anybody else experienced similar, or have comment on this fix?

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Related things I’d appreciate help on:

In removing the engine, when I disconnected the inlet hose at the bottom of the RH intercooler, quite a lot of oil ran out – maybe 8 oz. It seemed like a lot to me, but I don't know how much is normal? Also, I can see oil on the bottom fins at the front of the RH intercooler. (The LH hose had only a little oil in it and none shows on the fins.)

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Should I investigate further to see if the RH turbo shaft seals are failing and allowing oil into the compressor side? (I’m not familiar with the details of KKK turbo internals.) Does the oil on the intercooler fins indicate the intercooler is leaking? I’m assuming that the external oil leak caused by the loose banjo bolt is not related to the oil in the hose, but could they be related?

Also, what other maintenance work would be good to do since I have the engine out? I don’t track the car and am not really looking for additional horsepower at this time. Some of the things on my list are:

Definite items: spark plugs, oil filter, voltage regulator, PCV valve
Maybe items: Oxygen sensors? Valve cover gaskets? Somebody mentioned a coolant temp sensor?? Thoughts on these or other items??

The previous owner provided me repair records from a local Audi dealer for the following items: Timing and serp belt service w/ water pump and thermostat done @ 59K mi, TC seal @ 65K, DRC recall @ 65K.

Thanks very much for your help!

Steve

[Aronis]

GREAT DIY! Nicely done. Did you have helpers?

Yes, oil staining on the bottom of the IC is usually the sign of a leak there.

Do the valve cover gaskets while it's out of the car and the other seals at the cam.

Mike

[lswing]

Great looking car, nice work. I'm about at the same point. You might want to replace the oil cooler coolant pipe, it's plastic and is known to fail, get it from this guy in metal for $25. jamesbufkin@bufkinengineering.com

I'm doing the turbo rebuild for $1,300, but I've got 90k miles.

Looks like a leak out of the IC, there are some recent threads on people pressure testing in water and then sealing with JB weld.

[hahnmgh63]

EGT Sensors. It's too late but you can tighten that Banjo bolt with the engine in the car. Mine was a touch loose after re-installing the engine/tranny a couple of months ago and I was able to tighten it down, no leaks now.

[4everRS]

Thanks for sharing. Great post. How long did that take?

[Aronis]

put a wrench on the lower (third) bolt on the power steering rack.....LOL....just saying....

Mike

[4everRS]

put a wrench on the lower (third) bolt on the power steering rack.....LOL....just saying....

Mike

Good call!

[SFJ_RS6]

EGT Sensors. It's too late but you can tighten that Banjo bolt with the engine in the car. Mine was a touch loose after re-installing the engine/tranny a couple of months ago and I was able to tighten it down, no leaks now.

Now that I can see it more clearly with engine out, I thought I might have been able to tighten it in place. But not being sure that was the source, I'm glad I was able to see the full thing and conclude that was the source. Live and learn....

Thanks for the tip on the EGT sensors - I will look into replacing them.

When you removed your engine, did you find oil at your intercoolers? Any idea of what's normal or acceptable for this?

[ben916]

Brave man!

[kevin]

I'm about midway through my water pump/timing belt maint. Did the engine/trans pull route since I'm doing a TC mod, O2 and exhaust temp sensors. When I pulled the IC plumbing apart I had maybe a total of a tablespoon of oil for both of them.

[kday]

Oil on the outside of the intercoolers means you have an intercooler leak. Some amount of oil inside the charge air tract is normal. (Well, it appears that leaking intercoolers are also normal, but definitely not desirable.) I had a tablespoon or two of oil one side as well; the other side was much less. I am not sure how much of the oil comes from the PCV system and how much comes from oil leaking past the turbo seals but I am assuming that any asymmetry would be due to turbo seals.

ETA: If I had my engine out I would replace the O2 sensors. I'm not aware of them being common failure items, but I'm pretty sure you can't get to them when the engine is in place, and they're relatively cheap. Cheaper than EGT sensors for sure. There is a coolant sensor on the back of the engine, but it is not that hard to replace when the engine is in place so I wouldn't worry about it.

[SFJ_RS6]

Thanks for sharing. Great post. How long did that take?

Fortunately I don't have to go for speed on this project since I have other cars to drive. I worked on it a few hours at a time over the course of about 2 weeks. I'd estimate about 30-40 hours total. Since it's the first time I've done this job I took time to label connectors, vacuum lines, etc. to increase the odds of getting them re-installed correctly. If there is a next time, I'd be able to do it faster now having done it once. :race:

I am in awe of Kevin who recently reported that he got his engine out and on a cart in 1/2 day. I'd have to say that's impressive, even for a someone who does this for a living!

[SFJ_RS6]

Thanks all for your input on this. Based on your responses, it sounds like the amount of oil in my RH IC plumbing is more than what would be expected. My next will be to remove the RH turbo to see if I can tell anything from shaft play. I've sprayed the turbo fasteners with PC Blaster, but I'm expecting them to be tight based on past experience with exhaust fasteners! Anyone have any tips or tricks to getting these off without breaking them? Heat or ???

I've also been following some other good threads where kday, 905084, and others have been testing and fixing their ICs. Since it appears I've got an IC leak, I'm also planning to try to fix that.

[SFJ_RS6]

Great looking car, nice work. I'm about at the same point. You might want to replace the oil cooler coolant pipe, it's plastic and is known to fail, get it from this guy in metal for $25. jamesbufkin@bufkinengineering.com

I'm doing the turbo rebuild for $1,300, but I've got 90k miles.

Looks like a leak out of the IC, there are some recent threads on people pressure testing in water and then sealing with JB weld.

Thanks for the tip about the oil cooler coolant pipe - I'll get in touch with James for a replacement.

Some questions about your turbo rebuild: I'm curious what symptoms do you have that are your reason for rebuilding - oil at IC, noise, age, or something else?? Are you getting both rebuilt for $1300? Are you doing your own work?

[lswing]

No symptoms on the turbos, I just figured why not put them back to new since the engine is out. I've heard them going at 60k, and lasting to 150k, but figured at 90k I might as well. The rebuild is being done by Scroll in NJ, $1300 for both with an upgraded turbine shaft to allow more oil in, better balancing, guessing I'll get a bit more punch. I think just normal upgrade is $1,000. I should have them in the car by March 1st.

I have two extra turbos at this point that will be in Scroll's possession if you want to buy them and save the transit time, $800. Although one has a scratched hot side housing on the inside, should not affect air flow.

Good luck with the work!

[speedtrapped]

ALSO, As I believe Scroll will do it as an add on, have them do the WG modification!!! They cut WG housing in 1/2, replace spring, and can do a stronger spring(if your running tunes with more boost), they v clamp it, and in future the WG springs can be changed, albeit hard to get to when engine in, but stiffer spring will allow you to hold more boost

[905084]

SFJ_RS6..Thanks for the great pics, one more attempted test on my transmission and that's what mine will look like in a week. It looks like you disconnected the a/c lines and took the radiator out. Do you think it would be possible to pull the motor with the front in the lowered service position? I don't want to crack the line if I don't have to. Also, it looks like it came right out the front. Is that the way you did it?

Thanks for the pics, it might just give me the boost of confidence I need.

[hahnmgh63]

Don't bother trying to remove it with the front end on, just pull it, it will be much easier. I first thought I would try that but figured it was almost impossible and afterwards I found it is real easy to vacuum and charge the A/C system in the RS6.

[lswing]

Sort of related, my turbos at 90k were actually in good shape. One had a bit of oil around the outside, both had just a touch of play on the shaft, they could have gone a while. The new ones do look damn nice though!

[kday]

Did you charge the RS6 yourself? Did you need some sort of adapter for the low side?

I have a vacuum pump & charging manifold, and have done it on a few cars. It's always worked, but never as well as a proper charge with a recovery machine. I'm not sure why.

[hahnmgh63]

If you have a vacuum pump and R134A manifold you should be able to pretty much do a good evacuation and full recharge with straight liquid freon without even having to start the engine, that is how easy it worked for me.

[SFJ_RS6]

SFJ_RS6..Thanks for the great pics, one more attempted test on my transmission and that's what mine will look like in a week. It looks like you disconnected the a/c lines and took the radiator out. Do you think it would be possible to pull the motor with the front in the lowered service position? I don't want to crack the line if I don't have to. Also, it looks like it came right out the front. Is that the way you did it?

Thanks for the pics, it might just give me the boost of confidence I need.

905084 - you're welcome for the pics - glad they help.

I think it would be pretty hard to get the engine out when the radiator is still in place, even if it is forward in the service position. On the advice of an Indy Audi mechanic I know and trust (and former RS6-owner), I decided to lower the engine from between the frame horns, instead of trying to lift it up and out. It didn't seem like it could be lowered without opening the a/c system by disconnecting both lines at the compressor. Although in another recent thread here someone said their mechanic had removed the engine leaving the a/c system intact, they didn't provide details, but I think he must have come up and out. Even with up and out, I'd suggest removing the radiator to open the front. I don't have a lift, but was able to do this with an engine hoist, but I think a lift would make it easier.

I wasn't crazy about having to open the a/c because of the need to vacuum and recharge, as Mark just mentioned. Since my a/c system has been open for several weeks, I also plan to flush the system to remove the old oil and then replace the oil, receiver/dryer and expansion tube. It's important to flush existing oil and replace with fresh because the PAG oil used in R-134a systems and is very hygroscopic. And any moisture in the system (including any in the oil) combines with the refrigerant to form acids that will attack system components - not what you want in your a/c system!

Regarding the job of pulling your engine, I would highly recommend getting Bentley if you don't already have it. It provides a good description for getting the engine out. Then it's just a matter of following the procedure. I took a lot of pictures, used masking tape to label components, and put fasteners and small parts in labeled parts bags. This takes extra time and effort, but I think is worth it to help get it back together the right way, and avoid the dreaded "where the heck does this go?" question.

I got the kits installed in my turbos, and am just about wrapping up the other preventative work. I'll be ready to put the engine back in shortly. i only wish there was a way to test things as you go. I sure hope I don't get it installed, only to find there is some problem!!

Good luck!!
Steve

[SFJ_RS6]

Did you charge the RS6 yourself? Did you need some sort of adapter for the low side?

I have a vacuum pump & charging manifold, and have done it on a few cars. It's always worked, but never as well as a proper charge with a recovery machine. I'm not sure why.

On the RS6, the high and low side ports are easily accessible under the plenum chamber cover, on the RH side. I haven't recharged this car, but have had success servicing the R-12 system on my 1992 100CS, and a few other vehicles. Due to the different connector designs, R134 and R-12 systems require different manifolds. R-134 uses a quick-connect style vs a screw-on style for R-12.

[lswing]

Not sure exactly how he did it, but the car was/is on a lift. Engine out the bottom, radiator seems to be in place, they said the AC was still connected, looked to be...I might be able to get more details.

[ttboost]

I seem to recall not having to discharge my AC when I dropped my engine out? The only advice I can add is do NOT forget the ground cable that connects to the pasenger side frame rail and the starter stud. Easy to do and I made this mistake, and it cost me an afternoon and another engine pull...

[905084]

The only reason I don't want to crack the a/c line is that I had a bad experience with a 2005 Scion XB POS. Only new car I ever bought and I'll never buy another one or never ever a Toyota.

I've got a 4 post lift but I'm realizing it is more of a storage lift than a working on a car lift. If I had the 2 post I would probably drop it out the bottom, otherwise I'll try the engine hoist and give it a shot out the front. I've got one more prayer bead to rub and test my tranny, but pretty sure it is going to have to come out.

[ttboost]

Yeah...best tool I ever bought was my 2 post lift...extra wide and extra tall...

[alrightroad]

Sort of related, my turbos at 90k were actually in good shape. One had a bit of oil around the outside, both had just a touch of play on the shaft, they could have gone a while. The new ones do look damn nice though!

Do you still have those extra used turbos for sale?

[SFJ_RS6]

Not sure exactly how he did it, but the car was/is on a lift. Engine out the bottom, radiator seems to be in place, they said the AC was still connected, looked to be...I might be able to get more details.

lswing... If you can get more details, please post as I'd be pretty interested to learn how he was able to do this. Being able to leave the a/c system closed would save a fair amount of time and $$.

The issue I saw was with the compressor, which is low at the LH front corner of the engine, and tucked in tight under the LH head. In order to leave the a/c system closed I assume he must have unbolted the compressor (leaving the a/c lines attached) and lifted the engine up and away from the compressor??

[lswing]

Not sure exactly how he did it, but the car was/is on a lift. Engine out the bottom, radiator seems to be in place, they said the AC was still connected, looked to be...I might be able to get more details.

AC is connected, bumper and lights off, y-pipe off, IC's still in, radiator slid forward on extended helper threaded pegs...

[Tom Sawyer]

Really envious of the members doing these pulls! I'm definitely not afraid of performing any task on a car, I've done plenty of car work including pulling motors, rebuilds, etc.... but just not in a place where I can do this kind of wrenching (logistics wise mostly but also spare time as well as the RS being my DD).

Fortunately I have a great VAG tuner shop here in Nashville, very knowledgable crew, reasonable prices and all about taking care of everything while it is apart. With my TC and 75k looming, I'm making my list of things to order. At 75k, not totally sure the turbos will be on that list unless they are found to be in need.. but the sensor list (O2, EGT) as well as Venair IC hoses and maybe intercoolers with the stock units being so leak prone.

Would REALLY love to do the Miltek DP's but $3k added on to my increasing bill is a tough pill to swallow.

[kevin]

you can always go cat-less for under $1k. Or does TN have emissions testing?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/vwmeister/IMG_5021.jpg

[Tom Sawyer]

you can always go cat-less for under $1k. Or does TN have emissions testing?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/vwmeister/IMG_5021.jpg

Unfortunately they do. They don't do the mirror (physical) check on newer cars with ODB but I'm guessing the emissions gases would be higher and/or it would show up on a scan.

[lswing]

I thought you put the Milteks on for around $2k?

[hahnmgh63]

The Catless Milltek's cost me about $1100 shipped (Currency conversion at the time with the British Pound) from Unit 20. Nobody in the U.S. that sold Milltek's would deal with me for Catless downpipes, they all wanted to sell me the pipes with the high flow Cats for $3000+

[kevin]

I thought you put the Milteks on for around $2k?

noooo... retail on them is $1049 for the set. I am a Milltek dealer so I get a bit of a discount off that. I have no problem getting catless. At least not yet, knock on wood.