Jumped on the "Crazy Train"

[905084]

Hi all,

Well after reading this forum for a couple of months and having another 2000 A6, I just couldn't help myself. My wife picked up #905084 in Boulder, CO on Friday 12/9. I bought the car after being told it had a "slip" in the transmission and assumed it to be the TC.

My wife drove it 500 miles home and had a blast. She called to say it is "the best all around car I've ever driven". No CEL when it got home, and the transmission "slipped" on her a couple of times in Denver.

Needles to say, when she got home I had to drive it. The first time out, after the car was warm, as I accelerated just slightly from say 45-50 the transmission acted like it slipped out of gear for a second and the RPM came up. I still couldn't help myself and drove it fairly hard the second time. The CEL came on and I hate to say it but I was thrilled, hoping it was the TC failure code. Pulled the codes when I got home and there were 7. All were fairly benign (Secondary Air Injector Pump Flow Low, MAF intermittent, A/T Temp Sensor) but no TC failure or incorrect gear ratio codes.

Anyone have any ideas? I don't mind doing the TC, but don't want to replace it and find out that wasn't the problem. Could it be a dirty valve body? Any help would be appreciated. I absolutely love the car and plan on keeping it a long time.

Thanks all :)

[Brav]

Wait for it...

[lswing]

Congrats on the car, it's one hell of a ride! Sounds like you've done it, but I confirmed my TC was bad (besides CEL & code), by putting in Tip mode, 5th gear, 50mph, rpm's go way up before the car accelerates.

[MaxRS6]

Let's make it official...00

Welcome aboard the...

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/Ozzy%20at%20Emerald/CrazyTrainPoster1.jpg?t=1293713060

Good luck on the repairs and enjoy the ride!

[905084]

Thanks MaxRS6...I would have liked to retired some day, but I know this is a better choice! It will be the smile on my face when I'm sitting in the wheelchair.

[QuattroRS]

Perform the hillbilly ecu/tcu reset. Disconnect the battery cable/neg

Go out and drive the car normally for 30 minutes. Then gently work into more throttle.

See what happens.

Also, as a side note. Send your TCU to Hoppen/mtm and get the TCU chip for 125 dollars. It is a must.


Hi all,

Well after reading this forum for a couple of months and having another 2000 A6, I just couldn't help myself. My wife picked up #905084 in Boulder, CO on Friday 12/9. I bought the car after being told it had a "slip" in the transmission and assumed it to be the TC.

My wife drove it 500 miles home and had a blast. She called to say it is "the best all around car I've ever driven". No CEL when it got home, and the transmission "slipped" on her a couple of times in Denver.

Needles to say, when she got home I had to drive it. The first time out, after the car was warm, as I accelerated just slightly from say 45-50 the transmission acted like it slipped out of gear for a second and the RPM came up. I still couldn't help myself and drove it fairly hard the second time. The CEL came on and I hate to say it but I was thrilled, hoping it was the TC failure code. Pulled the codes when I got home and there were 7. All were fairly benign (Secondary Air Injector Pump Flow Low, MAF intermittent, A/T Temp Sensor) but no TC failure or incorrect gear ratio codes.

Anyone have any ideas? I don't mind doing the TC, but don't want to replace it and find out that wasn't the problem. Could it be a dirty valve body? Any help would be appreciated. I absolutely love the car and plan on keeping it a long time.

Thanks all :)

[SteveKen]

Congrats on the car. I do hope that your purchase price included a warranty or reflected the cost of repair to the transmission.

I'm not sure what your short or long term plans are, but have you considered a manual conversion? PM me if you are interested.

[ben916]

do you have interior colors, exterior colors, stock? mods?

[905084]

The car is Mugello Blue with the silver leather. It has a SportTec chip but I haven't found any documentation for that. Overall in great shape, one owner, most records, no accidents. Just turned over 103K on the clock. Had it down to a transmission guy today to check out and he felt it might not be the transmission as it wasn't throwing any codes. He recommended further investigation even before servicing the transmission.

There is a mechanic in Salt Lake with some RS6 experience I'm told so I might take it to him tomorrow. I'm leaning towards getting the data logging software (Ross-Tech?) as that seems to be the only way to troubleshoot the engine/tranny, etc.

In lieu of taking it to the mechanic, I might try the redneck TCU reset above.

[ttboost]

Absolutely by the Ross Tech software and cable and definitely try to take your car to someone who has not only seen one before, but actually opened the hood...

[4everRS]

might be something so simple as being a quart or 2 low on fluid

[QuattroRS]

If ecu is chipped and the tcu is stock....then you could run into torque limiters that could cause issues.

1. Redneck reset
2. Ross tech
3. Data log
4. MTM tcu chip

I would order the Ross tech even before taking the car to another tech. Hell, I would send the TCU to Hoppen tomorrow. .02c


The car is Mugello Blue with the silver leather. It has a SportTec chip but I haven't found any documentation for that. Overall in great shape, one owner, most records, no accidents. Just turned over 103K on the clock. Had it down to a transmission guy today to check out and he felt it might not be the transmission as it wasn't throwing any codes. He recommended further investigation even before servicing the transmission.

There is a mechanic in Salt Lake with some RS6 experience I'm told so I might take it to him tomorrow. I'm leaning towards getting the data logging software (Ross-Tech?) as that seems to be the only way to troubleshoot the engine/tranny, etc.

In lieu of taking it to the mechanic, I might try the redneck TCU reset above.

[MaxRS6]

might be something so simple as being a quart or 2 low on fluid

+1- This would be the starting point. It seems as if many techs don't know the correct the process...

[905084]

Update: Thanks for everyone's help, especially QuattroRS. Picked up the beast from the transmission shop today. He checked the fluid level and color, drove the car and didn't want to do any service till the transmission was confirmed good or bad. At his shop I disconnected the battery then shorted the positive to ground as my wife didn't want to wait 30 minutes.

Started it up and idle was rough (this had happened the previous day also). Drove a couple of blocks (gently) and the car seemed to smooth out. Got on the freeway and everything was smooth. Drove over to the indy Audi tech with some stop and go driving and it didn't miss a beat. This was the first time I felt the car was really fast. By the time I arrived at the shop, no CEL, no shift issues and the car felt great so no need to leave it there!

Drove home up the interstate (I-80) and started to notice a "clunking" or "misfire" holding the throttle at 2500 rpm and about 72mph. Any increase or decrease in speed and it would go away. Came home and had the following codes:

169885 - Internal control module memory checksum error
17416 - Mass airflow implausible signal
17538 - Bank 2 mixture too lean
17536 - Bank 1 mixture too lean
18010 - Power supply low voltage

Only one that looks dire to me is the mass airflow sensor. For now, I'm happy that it doesn't seem to be the tranny or TC. Ross-Tech software will be ordered this week. Any specific model I should have? And tried twice to call Hoppen but no answer. TCU will be coming out and shipped as soon as I can got hold of them.

Thanks all for helping out a newbie!

[lswing]

Just a thought, but I would fix the issues the car is having before modifying the TCU. Hoppen takes a bit to contact, but the work is great, tightens up shifts a bit. Good luck sorting out the issues though! If you're misfiring because of and airflow sensor issue then you might want to keep the miles low. Odd that it only happens at one point.

[mmaturo]

I think you have a TC going/gone for the slipping no doubt (I had 5 go so I may have experience with this) your symptoms in your early posts are dead on to that. It does not always throw a code. The engine does get shut down as mentioned by giving too much torque to the trans. That is a code thrown...you feel that when you hit a plateau under acceleration and you have no boost. Your other issue does sound like MAF or to me more like a plug or cable going bad.

[ttboost]

Check your alternator and battery voltage too...both of those do funny things...

[QuattroRS]

You are quite welcome. Carry on with the MTM tcu chip and get that Ross tech Vag.


Update: Thanks for everyone's help, especially QuattroRS. Picked up the beast from the transmission shop today. He checked the fluid level and color, drove the car and didn't want to do any service till the transmission was confirmed good or bad. At his shop I disconnected the battery then shorted the positive to ground as my wife didn't want to wait 30 minutes.

Started it up and idle was rough (this had happened the previous day also). Drove a couple of blocks (gently) and the car seemed to smooth out. Got on the freeway and everything was smooth. Drove over to the indy Audi tech with some stop and go driving and it didn't miss a beat. This was the first time I felt the car was really fast. By the time I arrived at the shop, no CEL, no shift issues and the car felt great so no need to leave it there!

Drove home up the interstate (I-80) and started to notice a "clunking" or "misfire" holding the throttle at 2500 rpm and about 72mph. Any increase or decrease in speed and it would go away. Came home and had the following codes:

169885 - Internal control module memory checksum error
17416 - Mass airflow implausible signal
17538 - Bank 2 mixture too lean
17536 - Bank 1 mixture too lean
18010 - Power supply low voltage

Only one that looks dire to me is the mass airflow sensor. For now, I'm happy that it doesn't seem to be the tranny or TC. Ross-Tech software will be ordered this week. Any specific model I should have? And tried twice to call Hoppen but no answer. TCU will be coming out and shipped as soon as I can got hold of them.

Thanks all for helping out a newbie!

[905084]

Still no contact with Hoppen. Pulled the airbox today, found a Sportec air filter that looks like it hadn't been cleaned in 50k. Wanted to pull the MAF sensor but you have to pull the airbox to get to those apparently. Blew carb cleaner down the MAF hoping to clear the MAF code but no avail. Cleaned the filters and put them back. Will drive tomorrow. Ordered K&N filters from Norther Auto Parts for $30/each and Autolite plugs. Will try those when they come in.

[lswing]

I've heard a few times to use stock air filters, not K&N, as they will cause early MAF sensor problems. Someone correct me if needed, but I think that's it.

[ttboost]

Just an FYI...Never use carb (or brake) cleaner to clean a MAF. ONLY use MAF cleaner or contact cleaner that leaves NO RESIDUE. Also, my advice is stick to stock filters. The power gain (with a K&N or any aftermarket filter) is less than negligable and they don't filter much either. The stock airbox and the 2 stock air filters will give you all the air and flow you need, unless you are sportin 600+whp...then MAYBE you MIGHT be a little restricted...but not likely...

[QuattroRS]

Take the Autolite plugs and put them in the big black can in the corner of the garage marked garbage.

Order OEM plugs.

Take whatever air filters in the air box and fill up that big black can in the corner of the garage. ditto

Order OEM Mann filters.

May as well order OEM MAF sensors while your at it because you may have just ruined what you have with brake clean.

Never use carb/brake clean on the RS6.




Still no contact with Hoppen. Pulled the airbox today, found a Sportec air filter that looks like it hadn't been cleaned in 50k. Wanted to pull the MAF sensor but you have to pull the airbox to get to those apparently. Blew carb cleaner down the MAF hoping to clear the MAF code but no avail. Cleaned the filters and put them back. Will drive tomorrow. Ordered K&N filters from Norther Auto Parts for $30/each and Autolite plugs. Will try those when they come in.

[905084]

OEM Mann filters on Rock Auto for $21..look kinda like what I use on my Ford truck. OEM plugs? I can't find the Audi brand any where...what is the OEM Audi plug?

[QuattroRS]

This site has so much info. Read that sticky above on all the DIY items. Buy oem parts from genuinevwaudiparts.com

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/20286-RS6-service-schedule-with-part-numbers

[905084]

Tried www.genuuinevwaudiparts.com but no web site. Near as I can tell, the plugs in the RS6 (p/n101 000 063 AC) are the same ones used in every recent Audi/VW/Skoda made so they don't appear that special for $15 a pop, especially since mine haven't been done for at least 25 k (should be done every 20k from what I can tell). I'll put the Autolite's in and let you know how they work, hopefully get some data logging to tell. I'm a believer that you can source equivalent or better parts for cheaper ( oh my, I came across SuperTech tranny fluid at WalMart with the LT71141 spec!, Can't say even I would do that) If this thing is so high strung that it runs on baby seal tears, maybe I'll have to rethink.

[QuattroRS]

Funny, that pulls right up for me. No problem on the choice of replacement parts. I can remember some owners thinking the newer Iridium plugs must be better then the standard platinums in our cars. They were wrong. Heck, I dont even remember if those Audi plugs are denso or ngk. I just order them from genuine and put them in.

http://genuineaudiparts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=214407

Plugs are 11.90ea.

[JSRS6]

I had a thread on here where you could get (8) NGK PFR7Q spark plugs for 80 shipped. That is oem. Plug change interval is 10k not 20-25k

The reason that link didn't work in your post is it was spelled genuuine.

Www.genuinevwaudiparts.com

[JSRS6]

Didn't find the thread, but here is the site I get my plugs from:

http://www.sparkplugauto.com/ngk/laser-platinum/ngk-laser-platinum-pfr7q-spark-plug.html

[JSRS6]

I take it back, spark plugs are every 20k. But then again oil is at 10k. You should be fine though as long as you check regularly for codes. Ie misfires.

Audi MY 2003 RS6 Maintenance Schedule
Vehicle RS6
At 5,000 Mi (8,000 Km) *
Engine Oil / Oil Filter - Change the oil and replace oil filter. (Caution: RS 6 uses only oil fulfilling the VW 50501 specifications and with the viscosity 5W40) •
Windshield Wiper and Washer - Check fluid level. Add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Rotate tires. Check the pressure. •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •
Brake System - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
At 15,000 Mi (25,000 Km) *
Engine Oil / Oil Filter - Change the oil and replace oil filter. (Caution: RS 6 uses only oil fulfilling the VW 50501 specifications and with the viscosity 5W40) •
Engine - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Cooling System - Check the coolant level. Add coolant if necessary. •
Exhaust System - Check for damage and leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Engine, On-Board Diagnostic - Check Diagnostic Trouble Code Memory. Purge if necessary, (where applicable). •
Doors - Lubricate door hinge mechanism. •
Battery - Check electrolyte level. Add if necessary. Magic eye. •
Windshield Wiper and Washer / Headlight Washer - Check adjustment and function and add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Check the pressure. •
Check renewal date of tire repair set (where applicable). •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •
Brake System - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
Drive Shafts - Check boots. (Visual inspection) •
Lights - Check lights. •
Front Axle - Check dust seals on ball joints and tie rod ends. Check tie rods. •
Automatic Transmission and Final Drive - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Dust and Pollen Filter - Replace filter. •
Sliding roof - Clean guide rails and lubricate. •
Intercooler Hoses - Clean internally •
Air Cleaner - Clean housing and replace filter element •
Engine - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Cooling System - Check the coolant level. Add coolant if necessary. •
Exhaust System - Check for damage and leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Engine, On-Board Diagnostic - Check Diagnostic Trouble Code Memory. Purge if necessary, (where applicable). •
Doors - Lubricate door hinge mechanism. •
Battery - Check electrolyte level. Add if necessary. Magic eye. •
Windshield Wiper and Washer / Headlight Washer - Check adjustment and function and add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Check the pressure. •
Check renewal date of tire repair set (where applicable). •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •
Brake System - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
Drive Shafts - Check boots. (Visual inspection) •
Lights - Check lights. •
Front Axle - Check dust seals on ball joints and tie rod ends. Check tie rods. •
Automatic Transmission and Final Drive - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Dust and Pollen Filter - Replace filter. •
Sliding roof - Clean guide rails and lubricate. •
Intercooler Hoses - Clean internally •
Air Cleaner - Clean housing and replace filter element •
Engine - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Fuel Filter - Replace •
Spark Plugs - Replace •
Timing Belt - Check for wear (visual inspection) •
Ribbed Belt - Check for wear (visual inspection) •
Road Test - Check braking, kick-down, steering, electrical, heating & ventilation
•*
systems, air conditioning, (ASL) Automatic Shift Lock and power accessories. •
At 25,000 Mi (40,000 Km) *
Perform the 5,000 Mi (8,000 Km) Maintenance Service. Except: Rotate tires. •
At 35,000 Mi (55,000 Km) *
Engine Oil / Oil Filter - Change the oil and replace oil filter. (Caution: RS 6 uses only oil fulfilling the VW 50501 specifications and with the viscosity 5W40) •
Engine - Check for leaks. •*
Cooling System - Check the coolant level. Add coolant if necessary. •
Exhaust System - Check for damage and leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Engine, On-Board Diagnostic - Check Diagnostic Trouble Code Memory. Purge if necessary, (where applicable). •
Doors - Lubricate door hinge mechanism. •
Battery - Check electrolyte level. Add if necessary •*
Windshield Wiper and Washer / Headlight Washer - Check adjustment and function and add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Check the pressure. •
Check renewal date of tire repair set (where applicable). •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •
Brake system - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
Drive Shafts - Check the boots. (Visual inspection) •
Air Cleaner - Clean housing and replace filter element •*
Lights - Check the lights. •
Ribbed Belt - Check for wear (Visual inspection) •
Timing Belt Drive - Replace belt, tensioner assembly and idler pulley •
Intercooler Hoses - Clean internally •
Fuel Filter - Replace •
Front Axle - Check dust seals on ball joints and tie rod ends. Check tie rods. •
Automatic Transmission and Final Drive - Check for leaks (Visual inspection) •
Power Steering Fluid - Check fluid level. Add if necessary. •
Dust and Pollen Filter - Replace filter. •
Intercooler - Clean externally •
Radiator - Clean externally •
Condenser - Clean externally •
Spark Plugs - Replace •
Sliding Roof - Clean guide rails and lubricate with grease spray. •
Road Test - Check braking, kick-down, steering, electrical, heating and ventilation systems, air conditioning, (ASL) Automatic Shift Lock and power accessories. •
At 45,000 Mi (70,000 Km) *
Perform the 5,000 Mi (8,000 Km) Maintenance Service •
At 55,000 Mi (85,000 Km) *
Engine Oil / Oil Filter- Change oil and replace the oil filter (Caution: RS 6 uses only oil fulfilling the VW 50501 specifications and with the viscosity 5W40) •
Engine - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Cooling System - Check the coolant level. Add coolant if necessary. •
Exhaust System - Check for damage and leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Engine, On-Board Diagnostic - Check Diagnostic Trouble Code Memory. •
Purge if necessary, (where applicable). •
Doors - Lubricate door hinge mechanism. •
Battery - Check electrolyte level. Add if necessary •
Windshield Wiper and Washer / Headlight washer - Check adjustment and function. Add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Check the pressure. •
Check renewal date of the tire repair set (where applicable). Exchange tire seal solution. (If expired) •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •*
Brake system - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
Drive Shafts - Check the boots. (Visual inspection) •
Lights - Check all lights. Check Headlight adjustment. •
Front Axle - Check dust seals on ball joints and tie rod ends. Check tie rods. •
Automatic Transmission and Final Drive - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Dust and Pollen Filter - Replace filter. •
Air Cleaner - Clean housing and replace filter element. •
Spark Plugs - Replace •
Fuel Filter - Replace •
At 55,000 Mi (85,000 Km) - continued *
Ribbed Belt - Check for wear (Visual inspection) •
Timing Belt - Check for wear (visual inspection) •
Sliding Roof - Clean guide rails and lubricate. •
Road Test - Check braking, kick-down, steering, electrical, heating and ventilation systems, air conditioning, (ASL) Automatic Shift Lock and power accessories. •
At 65,000 Mi (100,000 Km) *
Perform the 5,000 Mi (8,000 Km) Maintenance Service. Except: Rotate tires •
At 75,000 Mi (115,000 Km) *
Engine Oil / Oil Filter - Change oil and replace the oil filter. (Caution: RS 6 uses only oil fulfilling the VW 50501 specifications and with the viscosity 5W40) •
Engine - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Cooling System - Check the coolant level. Add coolant if necessary. •
Exhaust System - Check for damage and leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Engine, On-Board Diagnostic - Check Diagnostic Trouble Code Memory. •
Purge if necessary, (where applicable). •
Doors - Lubricate door hinge mechanism. •
Battery - Check electrolyte level. Add if necessary. Magic eye. •
Windshield Wiper and Washer / Headlight washer - Check adjustment and function. Add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Check the pressure. •
Check renewal date of tire repair set. (where applicable). •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •
Drive Shafts - Check the boots •
Brake system - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
Drive Shafts - Check the boots. •
Lights - Check all lights. (Visual inspection) •
Front Axle - Check dust seals on ball joints and tie rod ends. Check tie rods •
Automatic Transmission and Final Drive - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Power Steering Fluid - Check fluid level: add if necessary. •
Dust and Pollen Filter - Replace filter. •
Ribbed Belt - Replace belt •
Air Cleaner - Clean housing and replace filter element •
Intercooler Hoses - Clean internally •
Timing Belt Drive - Replace belt, tensioner assembly and idler pulley •
Spark Plugs - Replace •
Fuel Filter - Replace •
Condenser - Clean externally •
Radiator - Clean externally •
Intercooler - Clean externally •
Road Test - Check braking, kick-down, steering, electrical, heating and ventilation systems, air conditioning, (ASL) Automatic Shift Lock and power accessories. •
At 85,000 (130,000 Km) *
Perform the 5,000 Mi (8,000 Km) Maintenance Service. Except: Rotate tires •
At 95,000 Mi (145,000 Km) *
Engine Oil / Oil Filter - Change the oil and replace the oil filter. (Caution: RS 6 uses only oil fulfilling the VW 50501 specifications and with the viscosity 5W40) •
Engine - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Cooling System - Check the coolant level. Add coolant if necessary. •
Exhaust System - Check for damage and leaks. (Visual inspection) •
Engine, On-Board Diagnostic - Check Diagnostic Trouble Code Memory. Purge if necessary, (where applicable). •
Doors - Lubricate door hinge mechanism. •
Battery - Check electrolyte level. Add if necessary. Magic eye. •
Windshield Wiper and Washer / Headlight Washer - Check adjustment and function and add fluid if necessary. •
Tires and Spare Wheel - Check for wear and damage. Check the pressure. •
Check renewal date of tire repair set. (where applicable). •
Service Reminder Indicator Display - Reset the display. •
Brake system - Check for damage and leaks. Check thickness of pads and brake fluid level. (Visual inspection) •
Drive Shafts - Check the boots. •
Fuel Filter - Replace •
Timing Belt - Check for wear (visual inspection) •
Ribbed Belt - Check for wear (Visual inspection) •
Intercooler Hoses - Clean internally •
Sliding Roof - Clean guide rails and lubricate. •
Front Axle - Check dust seals on ball joints and tie rod ends. Check tie rods •
Lights - Check all lights. Check Headlight adjustment •
Automatic Transmission and Final Drive - Check for leaks. (Visual inspection) •*
Dust and Pollen Filter - Replace filter. •
Spark Plugs - Replace •
Road Test - Check braking, kick-down, steering, electrical, heating and ventilation systems, air conditioning, (ASL) Automatic Shift Lock and power accessories •
Every 2 years regardless of miles/kilometers *
Brake Fluid - Replace brake fluid. •
Every 14 years regardless of miles/kilometers *
Airbag - Replace (All Audi models except A8 L) •

[905084]

Yikes! I'll have to clone myself to keep up with that. Thanks, I don't really think I knew what I was getting into (at least that's what me wife keeps telling me). Hard failure on right (#2?) MAF now, thank goodness. I'll take a hard failure over intermittent any day.

[QuattroRS]

Sorry about that. If you have not owned a current Audi or euro product you may want to ask before jumping into some items.


Take the Autolite plugs and put them in the big black can in the corner of the garage marked garbage.

Order OEM plugs.

Take whatever air filters in the air box and fill up that big black can in the corner of the garage. ditto

Order OEM Mann filters.

May as well order OEM MAF sensors while your at it because you may have just ruined what you have with brake clean.

Never use carb/brake clean on the RS6.

[905084]

Back to the hard failure on the #2 MAF. In all the cars I've owned, never had a MAF go bad, so I swapped left to right to avoid taking $200 and setting it on fire. The failure stayed with the #2 MAF, so MAF not the problem. Cleaned the contacts (yes, with contact cleaner this time) and viola, MAF back to working. Now the only code I have is MAF signal implausible.. From what I can gather, this seems to be forced induction (specifically turbo) problem with a leak somewhere between the turbo and intake. The seals on the MAF to turbo are pretty loose, so that's a possibility also, along with a cracked intercooler.

I've had my share of cars that need work (XJ Series 3 Jags, 1970 E-type Jag, 2000 Lonestar Cobra) so I hate to ask questions that I already know the answer to like, "Can I afford to maintain an RS6? or" will it be work?" . Do I need a car like an RS6? Nope, no one does. Do I want car like this? Oh yea :)

I would never have bought an RS6 without having this forum with its base of knowledge and willing and helpful members. Thanks All!!

[ttboost]

Always check the seal between the airbox and MAF's and the seal on the MAF to the intake. Very problematic and will set a light...

[905084]

Back to MAF failure codes 16486 MAF G70 low input and 17481 MAF G246 signal too small. Again swapped MAF's and failures stayed on the same side. All contacts cleaned on the MAF connector with no change in failures. Pulled the ECU and cleaned the pin connectors and the failures are gone. Back to just MAF implausible above 2000 rpm. It won't set the code at idle, just above 2000 rpm.

[kday]

By the way, this ECU code you posted earlier:

169885 - Internal control module memory checksum error

is apparently a known issue with early chips from MTM and others. So it's likely you have a chipped ECU.

(Though I don't know why it's 169885 and not 16985, which is what my MTM ECU reports. Just a typo?)

[905084]

Probably a typo on the code as by the time I usually get to post, it's usually happy hour :) Started looking for leaks and found this! Oh my, anyone care to take guess as to the intercooler efficiency?

1212512126

[JSRS6]

Good god man!

[PixieVC]

Good god man!

Those of us who drive in areas where it doesn't snow or where the road is salted are lucky.

I'm pretty sure any daily driven RS6 in snow-belt areas would have similar build-up over time.

[905084]

Not sure what the build up is, but it's coming off. Seems to be just generic road grime and I never would have thought to look for it. Probably explains some of why this RS6 doesn't feel that much faster than my blown Crown Vic as the speed comes up. Cant imagine what the intake temp would be and maybe explains at least some of the trouble under WOT. More fun to come!!....Driving hours 1, working on hours 5, but sadly, I am really starting enjoy it. I must be nuts.

[4everRS]

That's amazing. Never seen anything like that. Pixie, not sure how snow or salt or dirt on roads could cause this. You'd have to be intentionally riding someone's rear bumper and having the spray off their car get I the grill.

It's weird that it's only the one side.

[905084]

More cleaning tomorrow...all day off and a beautiful warm day. What else? Intercoolers off to check for leaks?

[aussie rs6]

time for a set of wagners from unit 20! Alternatively some good posts on forum on bringing leaking intercoolers back to spec.

[905084]

Came across the Wagners a bit ago and really liked them. House payment...wife...Wagners....house payment.... wife...Wagners....wife....Wagners...Dang, looks like I'll be rebuilding/repairing the stock intercoolers if they are bad.

[aussie rs6]

the intercoolers will be leaking, you can bet on that. You are right, you can't cuddle a pair of wagners!

[lswing]

Fix your stock intercoolers, they will be awesome, that photo you posted made me sick, ughhhh...remove, clean, seal, new hoses, put back on, enjoy! And you save $2k!!!

[905084]

Right intercooler off today. Just a tip, these are designed to be taken off as an assembly (intercooler and radiator). The radiator mounts are pop riveted to the intercooler. If you still have the stock plastic behind the intercooler/radiator assembly the easiest way to take this out is to remove the brace from the fender to the underside of the car (3 x #30 Torx) then lift up the intercooler off its two pin mount. I broke the plastic on mine trying to figure out how to separate the aux radiator from the intercooler when if you just take the brace off this is completely unnecessary. Everything is filthy and just a guess here, but oil coming out of the intercooler after you remove the bottom hose is a bad thing, right?



Pictures to follow...nothing else has gone right today, why should that?

[kday]

It's actually not unusual to have some oil in an intercooler due to oil seeping past the seals in the turbo -- whether it's a bad thing depends on the amount.

[905084]

Just about 1/2 tablespoon of oil, so I guess not bad for 103k? Can't afford turbos, so it must be fine, right? Intercooler is full of water now (redneck leak check) and it is dry. Probably have a radiator shop clean and leak check before it goes back in.

[kday]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over half a tablespoon. Half a quart, yeah... :)

[kday]

As for the pressure check -- a visit to the plumbing section of your local hardware store may yield some better tools than water.

Here's a nicely documented example: http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/27t_pressure_tester.pdf

When I've done this in the past I used a leakdown gauge to throttle the air from the compressor and give a good indication that even with a low flow the pressure was staying the same in the vessel. That and a spray bottle full of soapy water to check for visible leaks.

[905084]

I thought about doing that before I pulled the I/C. But since the I/C was filthy, I thought I'd pull it. The O.D. for the I/C is 2 3/4. Unfortunately the ID of a 3 inch cap from the Depot is 3.5 inches and the ID of a 2 inch cap is 2 1/4 inches. My wife politely pointed out I needed a 2 1/2 inch cap....thanks hon...do you see one? Shoved the 2 inch cap on the inside of the I/C (thanks hon) and it will probably seal. Got bored and filled it full of water. Realistically, if it leaks with water, it has to go to the radiator shop cause I can't weld at all, and certainly not aluminum. On the other hand, how much of a leak under 10-14psi (1 atmosphere) does it have to leak before it is a code triggering problem? Not sure, but there has to be some tolerance in the ECU for turbo differences, etc.

[4everRS]

I think your on the money taking them to a good radiator repair shop.

You won't get a code. Just a blown turbo. The ECU just tries to compensate and spin the turbo faster to achieve requested boost. A small leak is probably no big deal. But then again, a small leak will usually grow into a larger one.

[905084]

Right intercooler removed

12128

Intercooler without radiator

12127

[kday]

I would expect the ECU to go into failsafe mode before blowing a turbo due to a boost leak. The early '90s vintage Motronic will, anyway -- if you blow a boost hose the ECU notices the MAF is flowing way more air than the engine could be ingesting, and cuts fuel abruptly. Same goes for other MAF based turbo cars like the MR2 turbo. (I know this because I remember an old colleague of mine getting stranded when a boost hose clamp let loose.) It's more of a risk for MAP-only systems where the ECU is blind to the fact that the turbo is trying to pressurize the atmosphere. My turbo Miata (w/ MAP-based Megasquirt) will happily run with a blown-off boost hose until the turbo overspins.

That's not to say even minor boost leaks are harmless, of course. They will screw up the fueling and be less efficient.

[905084]

Here ya go. I/C in water. Blowing more bubbles than Shamu. Won't even get the air compressor off the stop for pressure. Quick trip down to the radiator shop. "I can't fix that" he says. Yikes! so choices are what? Wagners and no wife (hmmmm). No Wagners and a cobbled together eBay compilation of crap (actually some great deals, but can't find one that would come close to fitting. JB Weld!! but it has to be clean and I'm not even close. I love the Wagners...but the wife...
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[4everRS]

Yikes I guess! Did the guy say why not? I would try to call a couple more places.

[lswing]

There's a great thread on here about the JB weld fix, or find a local welder might be better, that's what my shop was going to do if I had leaks...good luck!

[905084]

As I understand it, the bar and plate type that we have cracks at the corners. If it is just the outside of the corner bars it can be welded/ JB weld or whatever. If the crack has propagated to the bottom side of the bar (under the heat sink) the only way to fix it is to remove that portion of the heat sink to weld or epoxy. Beginning to think the Wagners are a deal for the engineering into them but can't (I mean can't as in sleeping in the basement two kids in college can't) spend the money.

[lswing]

JRRS6 has a set off the car that is JB welded up I believe, ask him. No reason to spend the cash on Wagners unless under special circumstances...

[kday]

JB weld or another epoxy sounds like a good bet to me. You don't have anything to lose, unless you discover an amazing TIG welder living down the block tomorrow...

FWIW I once epoxied a thermistor to the original intercooler on my S4. (Ok, I'm a nerd.) Years later, after I had upgraded to a front mount unit, I was getting ready to sell the stock one, and tried to remove the thermistor. The epoxy was much stronger than the aluminum, as I found out when I gave it a yank with pliers and promptly tore a hole in the intercooler.

Maybe you could have the unit professionally cleaned -- acid tank, ultrasonic, whatever.

[905084]

Cleaning the cooler, drilling out the heat sink between the outside bar and the second one so I can get JB on the back side of the bar. Trying to take my time. Steep learning curve (already nicked one bar) but nothing to lose really. Clean, sand and clean some more. Only really one shot at this because if it's not clean it wont seal.

[905084]

Wife wants the I/C off the kitchen table. I don't know why. Sealing one side almost done. Takes forever when you don't know what you are doing and JB takes 12 hours to dry.

12167

[PixieVC]

Wife wants the I/C off the kitchen table. I don't know why.
12167

Really? You don't know why? I just have to ask - did you not have another location available? I'd kill my husband if he did any such thing with my kitchen or dining room table... to monopolize it with a large piece of metal...

Wifey is very tolerant. I wouldn't ask to move it... I would just find another spot.

[jaycurss6]

You could also buy these! Just happened to run across them in the classifieds!
http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/2786520887.html

[ben916]

You could also buy these! Just happened to run across them in the classifieds!
http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/2786520887.html

Those are yokust's (on here)

[905084]

Those I/C's look nice, but I got to figure I'd eventually have the same problem unless you reinforced them before dropping them in. Guess I will probably stick with mine as they came up virtually leak free this morning. Hopefully last a few years.

Should have them off the table tomorrow Pixie! I didn't have anywhere else to do it. Transmission in the bathtub, rotors on the coffee table, intake manifold in the kitchen sink,etc,etc. After 25 years, the wife is used to my idiosyncrasies I guess.

[905084]

Some intercooler pics and repairs.

I/C lower tank JB welded

12168
Upper tank. Just flowed the JB weld thinned with acetone and distributed with a syringe from Walgreens.

12169

Right I/C reinstalled. Car still drives like crap, so I don't think the the I/C was the main problem, but it was one of them.

12170

Left I/C pulled as an assembly (I/C, aux radiator, and rear plastics). So quick and easy when you do it this way. Leaks badly.
12171

Clearing out the heat sink on the bar to seal the underside if it's leaking. The bottom tank seems to be our biggest problem as it only has one mounting point and takes most of the torsional stress.

12172

[905084]

I/C's are back in, bumper on, looks like a car again! Still runs horribly at certain rpm's Tach fluctuates 50 rpm and can definitely feel the car cut in and out. Still the following codes:

17416 P1008 MAF 1/2 sensor implausible

17536 P1128 Bank 1 too lean

17538 P1130 Bank 2 too lean

Called Apikol to oreder the MAF seals 'cause I'm out of options. Great guys and great service. Should have them here by next week to install and continue troubleshooting. Brendan at Apikol even knew my car and said it had the Sportec chip and Sportec TCU... :)

[kday]

When you take the airbox off to replace the seals, maybe you want to double check all of the vacuum lines... I suppose any leaks after the MAFs could result in lean codes.

I am tempted to pull my ICs and check them for leaks while I have the front apart and the coolant drained, but I'm not sure I want to know...

[MaxRS6]

^Ignorance is not bliss on these things...I say take a look..My less than .03 worth

[905084]

If you have the front off the I/C's are worth it to check for sure. J/B weld seems to be the only viable option if you don't have 2k for the Wags (which I don't). My I'C's are good (or at least good enough) so I'm on to other leaks including any vacuum leaks I can find. Some vacuum line between the injector air pump solenoid (I believe) came apart in my hand while I had the airbox off. To be replaced tomorrow.

[kday]

Well, I pulled my intercoolers today, and it looks like I'm in the same boat. The left one leaks badly, and the right one also leaks. Guess I'll give the JB Weld a shot.

Also noticed my right side aux radiator has some red gunk on it. Looks like that leaks too, slowly. I'm considering an aux rad delete. Doubt it would save much weight but it would free up some space. I have no plans to move to the desert or take the RS6 to a road course, so it seems like a safe bet.

[4.2Crew]

Still the following codes:

17416 P1008 MAF 1/2 sensor implausible

17536 P1128 Bank 1 too lean

17538 P1130 Bank 2 too lean

:)

You may want to ensure the SAI (Secondary Air Injection) system is "tight".... Check all vacuum lines to ensure they aren't cracked and hold a vacuum. Also, there is a large plastic/rubber hose at the back of the engine that connects vacuum actuated air valves on each bank (they are hard to see/reach)... That hose can degrade over time (very close to exhaust heat) due to heat cycling etc... Can result in these codes.

[905084]

Definitely going to check the SAI system when I do the Apikol seals this week.

As far as the aux radiator delete the only reason I didn't do it was to keep the marketability of the car. Might want to check with a radiator shop to see if it is an easy fix.

[kday]

The radiator leak appears to be at the seam of the plastic tank and the core. I think there's usually a gasket in there. I doubt it would be economical to repair.

On the intercooler fix -- what did you use to remove the fins between the bars, near the endtanks?

[905084]

I used an old woodworking chisel. It is 1/4 inch wide and fits perfectly between the bars of the core. It has a sharp edge that cuts the heat sink material easily, but not the bars or the end plate as they are much thicker.

To start, drill out the heat sink material at the corner using one size smaller than 1/4 inch (my first one I used a 1/4 inch bit and rounded it a bit and cut the bar material as it is fairly fragile). Then use the tool to scrape away all the heat sink material. It looked like this before the JB weld.

1222612227

Here is a pic of the tool. I'd recommend buying something similar if you can find it.

12228

I sanded the spots I could get, then cleaned it with a Q-tip in acetone. For the application of the JB weld I would recommend thinning with acetone (I think it was 1tsp per 2 oz.) then applying with a syringe to get it to flow between the bars. Walgreens had the perfect size with a little cleaning brush with it that worked great.

[4everRS]

905084, Great tips. Love to see the picts too!

To verify, was the leak coming from where the bars came to the end tanks?

[905084]

Yes, the radiator shop I took the first I/C to put it in the water tank and 3 of the 4 corners where the bars go into the end tank were leaking. The bars aren't welded to the end tank. I guess they use heat and hope to get it to seal.

I also ran a bead of JB down each side of the end tanks just as an added measure to help seal and support the I/C.

12230

[kday]

Thanks. Will give it a try tonight. So you didn't have any leaks except for the corners?

Last night I cleaned the intercoolers with dish soap. Lots of crud came off. I did this in the bathtub since there's no slop sink in the house. I would JB weld them on the dining room table except it's already covered with my wife's paintings so I can't!

[905084]

No other leaks that I know of. I went down the sides of the end tanks with the JB "just in case". I pressurized it to about 15 psi and let it set for 5 minutes and the pressure stayed the same. Any leak smaller I assume is inconsequential due the the CFM that the turbo puts out.

I think all of the gunk on the I/C is oil from the turbo and not road grime. I took mine to the local car wash and pressure washed them before I started to really clean the area around the tanks. If you do that, just don't hold the sprayer at an angle too close to the heat sink fins or they will bend.

[905084]

Apikols!!!! Old seals out with tennis balls inside shopping bags to prevent FOD from going down the intake. Cleaned the intake with Q-tips and acetone.

12246

Apikol seals installed.
12247

Test drive time....still has cold running issues with the SAI pump running, but this is the first time I felt like I had a beast! WOW!! I had to go to Hope Depot and after driving there, I walked in with the biggest grin and tears in my eyes 'cause I FELT IT!! All the work has been worth it and I'll keep working because I know how great this car can be! Still throwing the same MAF codes but it's all good!

[kday]

Awesome!

Mine felt pretty beastly already but I'm hoping for more once I get my IC leaks fixed.

[905084]

Same MAF codes, Signal implausible, Bank 1/2 too lean. Took the airbox off and found my left Apikol seal half in the turbo inlet! Got to say, the whole carbon fiber airbox installation is a goat rope on this car with the left MAF wiring harness in the way.

Managed to salvage the seal, took both the MAF's off the airbox and put them in the intake with the seals then put the airbox on. Left the MAF's unscrewed to the airbox. About 10 times easier with no codes.

[905084]

More troubleshooting. Bought a 99 cent cable on eBay, downloaded the VCDS lite software and spent 4 hours trying to get it to work on my 'puter. Finally got the car to talk to the computer and started it up. G70 MAF reading essentially zero while G246 reading "normal" or about 5 at idle. Swapped MAF's and then had G246 reading zero. Bad MAF. Had a cheapie MAF for an Audi TT that I took the sensor out of and put in the RS housing. Started it again and G246 reading a little less than G70 but working. Went for a spirited drive and had a blast! Made my wife giggle....

Not sure why the ECU doesn't flag the bad MAF in its software, but you have to have at least VCDS lite to troubleshoot this problem.

Probably order a new MAF tomorrow but at least the beast is a beast and driveable. Except for the occasional transmission slipping out of gear on acceleration............

[Chung]

I get a check engine every now and then for MAF but it is not consistant.

I am thinking about using your approach to the airbox. Do you notice any leaks around where the MAFs connect to the airbox? I wouldn't want air from there because it is past the filters.

I think speedtrapped used a little bit of superglue to hold the Apikol seals in. Mine just arrived so I need to decide what to do there.

[905084]

Apikol sent me some glue with the MAF but it did not work particularly well. If I were to do it again I would use a band of RTV to put the Apikols in, push in the MAF then let dry. Then pull out the MAF and attach to the airbox (heck, I will probably go back and do it this way). Because the seals are tight, it is difficult to center the airbox (with the left MAF plugged in) and ensure they are centered before you push down the airbox. If it is not perfectly centered and you try to push it in and there is no glue or it is not dry,, you can wind up pushing half the seal down the intake like I did.

As for the intermittent MAF, I was troubleshooting mine and cut the insulation cover off the left MAF. Yikes!, bare green signal wire in 2 places... pulled on it and it came apart in my hand. Added some wire and soldered and now functioning, but needs a complete rewire. I only mention this because this signal wire is shielded to ground and the bare signal wire was cut about where the shield ends. Now if your signal wire were to short to ground, I imagine you would have an intermittent MAF reading.

The MAF wires and the MAF's themselves live in a very hot environment right above the turbos which probably accounts for the high failure rate.

[Chung]

Same MAF issue with as mine. Bare wires that read every now and then. I am going to do a rewire on mine which will hopefully solve my issues.

[NSU RS6]

Apikol sent me some glue with the MAF but it did not work particularly well. If I were to do it again I would use a band of RTV to put the Apikols in, push in the MAF then let dry. Then pull out the MAF and attach to the airbox (heck, I will probably go back and do it this way). Because the seals are tight, it is difficult to center the airbox (with the left MAF plugged in) and ensure they are centered before you push down the airbox. If it is not perfectly centered and you try to push it in and there is no glue or it is not dry,, you can wind up pushing half the seal down the intake like I did.

As for the intermittent MAF, I was troubleshooting mine and cut the insulation cover off the left MAF. Yikes!, bare green signal wire in 2 places... pulled on it and it came apart in my hand. Added some wire and soldered and now functioning, but needs a complete rewire. I only mention this because this signal wire is shielded to ground and the bare signal wire was cut about where the shield ends. Now if your signal wire were to short to ground, I imagine you would have an intermittent MAF reading.

The MAF wires and the MAF's themselves live in a very hot environment right above the turbos which probably accounts for the high failure rate.

Careful with Silicones, I have heard they can screw up OX sensors. Use this:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Aviation_Form-A-Gasket_No_3_Sealant_a.htm