transmission whine after trans oil change- the dreaded torque converter?

[aussie rs6]

At 55,000 miles changed the auto trans oil and filter - oil and filter came out clean. Checked trans oil level ok as per vagcom after trans oil change at correct temperature. last changed trans oil at 40,000 miles.

Before driving into work shop, no trans shift problems, prior to trans oil change, vag com check threw no codes for trans or torque converter. On driving out of shop after service, whining in each gear like a supercharger whine.puke: No slipping or clunks, just whine. No trans vagcom errors. Filter installed ok and oil pump pick up ok. trans oil and filter on draining still clean.

Have I fallen prey to the dreaded new oil stirred up sludge and blocked pump or torque converter or in torque converter bearings or similar?:vgrumpy:

I recall there were other posts which argued the pros and cons of changing trans oil regularly. I am still a supporter of regualar 12 month trans oil and filter change.

It appears when you flush new trans oil through trans that any underlying problems with excessive wear of clutch plates in the torque converter and accumulating sludge are unmasked

Beast is APR ECU tuned with MTM TCU.

Now sending the beast to specialist to have the trans and torque converter overhauled. As tozo does it, specialist does not need to pull the engine to remove and install trans.

Any suggestions from forum members appreciated.

such is life.:addict::addict::addict:

[Chung]

I had issues with my transmission after a tran oil change and new filter. It turns out with the new Audi pan the filter pickup pipe is too long and almost touches the bottom of the pan. This restricted the fluid so that the transmission was not getting enough. TozoM8 recommended trimming the pickup pick and for me all was better.

[aussie rs6]

I had issues with my transmission after a tran oil change and new filter. It turns out with the new Audi pan the filter pickup pipe is too long and almost touches the bottom of the pan. This restricted the fluid so that the transmission was not getting enough. TozoM8 recommended trimming the pickup pick and for me all was better.

Thanks Chung.

I will have the shop try this.

regards,
john

[hahnmgh63]

I bet it is the oil pickup starvation issue Chung mentioned. There is a variety of filters and pans out there and you need to install the filter and measure the pickup against the depth of your pan and trim if necessary. Of course it should be just as easy as comparing closely against the filter that came out of the car too while you have them both there on the bench.

[kday]

If you had an experienced shop do the work it's probably not this, but for what it's worth the first time I changed the trans fluid in an Audi automatic I overlooked a key detail of the procedure: the fluid level must be checked with the engine running. Otherwise it will be really low. (I guess this probably applies to all automatics, but without a dipstick it's easier to make this mistake I think.)

[4everRS]

Make sure you didn't forget to install a new oring seal for the filter.

[johnnie27]

At 55,000 miles changed the auto trans oil and filter - oil and filter came out clean. Checked trans oil level ok as per vagcom after trans oil change at correct temperature. last changed trans oil at 40,000 miles.

Before driving into work shop, no trans shift problems, prior to trans oil change, vag com check threw no codes for trans or torque converter. On driving out of shop after service, whining in each gear like a supercharger whine.puke: No slipping or clunks, just whine. No trans vagcom errors. Filter installed ok and oil pump pick up ok. trans oil and filter on draining still clean.

Have I fallen prey to the dreaded new oil stirred up sludge and blocked pump or torque converter or in torque converter bearings or similar?:vgrumpy:

I recall there were other posts which argued the pros and cons of changing trans oil regularly. I am still a supporter of regualar 12 month trans oil and filter change.

It appears when you flush new trans oil through trans that any underlying problems with excessive wear of clutch plates in the torque converter and accumulating sludge are unmasked

Beast is APR ECU tuned with MTM TCU.

Now sending the beast to specialist to have the trans and torque converter overhauled. As tozo does it, specialist does not need to pull the engine to remove and install trans.

Any suggestions from forum members appreciated.

such is life.:addict::addict::addict:

geez john, i have had my trans oil done twice here in melb..car has done 38,000 miles

APR tune on car for 6 years, no issues...hope its something simple or silly

johnnie

www.abautomatics.com.au/ (http://www.abautomatics.com.au/) (they are the gods of the industry) so i am told they have done all my cars in the past too

[aussie rs6]

Hi fellow posters,

many thanks for the inputs.

much appreciated and why this forum is such a useful site. :thumb: for Erik and moderators

The independent shop I am using has a lot of good experience with Audis, but does not have a lot of experience with C5 RS6 as there are only three here in Perth and only one C6 RS6.

I will let you know how the check on the pick up pipe goes.
john

Male Insensitive joke for the day:

My girlfriend says she thinks that I might be a stalker. Well... she's not
exactly my girlfriend yet.

[hahnmgh63]

Most in the past have felt that changing it every 30~40K miles (50~60K Kilometers) is good for the tranny. But if it hasn't been changed before and getting high mileage then don't change it as high mileage trannies with old fluid may have a bit of sludge built up that may become dislodged and plug up the valve body.

[aussie rs6]

The 'new' trans filter and pan was too shallow and starving the trans pickup of oil.

As another poster has said in the past "winner, winner , chicken dinner" for chung & hahnmgh63:applause::applause:

Installed correct depth filter, filled to correct level for pick up and hey presto-supercharger whine in each gear vanished.

Then ran vagcom check:

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01L-927-156.lbl
Part No: 4B0 927 156 FB
Component: AG5 01L 4.2l5VT RdW 1214
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 6CDDBB5B1C90E8E
No fault code found. :rs6kiss::rs6kiss::rs6kiss:

Another fault showed up but thats another thread.

Thanks all posters for their prompt reply and advice that saved me a $7,000 trans out and in and rebuild! :bow::bow::bow:

shows the real value of the forum and Erik's and the members dedication to it. :thumb:

[aussie rs6]

geez john, i have had my trans oil done twice here in melb..car has done 38,000 miles

APR tune on car for 6 years, no issues...hope its something simple or silly

johnnie

www.abautomatics.com.au/ (http://www.abautomatics.com.au/) (they are the gods of the industry) so i am told they have done all my cars in the past too

Hi Johnnie,

thanks for the advice on trans rebuild shop in Melbourne. Thankfully did not need it, but will keep in mind for future if I don't get 6 years trans reliability like you have experienced.

john

[johnnie27]

Hi Johnnie,

thanks for the advice on trans rebuild shop in Melbourne. Thankfully did not need it, but will keep in mind for future if I don't get 6 years trans reliability like you have experienced.

john

your welcome, its were VW, AUDI, BMW , LandRover etc all send there problem cars

i am sure you can order filters , oils etc from them...they love my ride and would be happy to help another Rs owner i'm sure as we are a rare breed in oz...

when the mech took my car around the block, after the last tranny fluid change...he came back , got out the car with a big smile and said ..what farking motor is in that! there good guys...he even drove with me w/ some computer screen device thing plugged into the car and showed me when the TC releases grabs etc, i'm no mech (as you know) but it was intereting to learn, and nice of them to take the time to show me...around $550 for a tranny service from them..john

[mik15]

when should the whining be heard? all the time or at some speed? i think i can hear something like a whining but only after i pass 35-40mph and it looks like it's going away after i hit 50mph, or maybe i don't hear it anymore due to wind noise, i am not sure...i have been driving close to the walls at different speeds and can't hear it, it looks like it comes only on open road, could be just some kind of wind noise? what's the best way to check if the transmission is whining or is it that obvious that you really can't mistake it with some other noise? or am i paranoiac?

[4everRS]

From a stop, stepping on the brakes, hit the gas and release the brake. Floor it. If it's being starved for fluid, it will have a whine. Open the windows. It's noticeable even with the windows closed. You can almost hear the tranny say to the cosworth "fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckyyyyooooouuuuuuu"

[Tom Sawyer]

From a stop, stepping on the brakes, hit the gas and release the brake. Floor it. If it's being starved for fluid, it will have a whine. Open the windows. It's noticeable even with the windows closed. You can almost hear the tranny say to the cosworth "fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckyyyyooooouuuuuuu"

Definitely LOL on that one.... Nice! Will share the trim recommendation with my mechanic on my upcoming TC swap.

[lswing]

If you had an experienced shop do the work it's probably not this, but for what it's worth the first time I changed the trans fluid in an Audi automatic I overlooked a key detail of the procedure: the fluid level must be checked with the engine running. Otherwise it will be really low. (I guess this probably applies to all automatics, but without a dipstick it's easier to make this mistake I think.)

How much lower might it be? Been wondering about this, and jumped a shift from third to fourth without me shifting, under load. Will be trying to add fluid with engine running this week.

[905084]

How much lower might it be? Been wondering about this, and jumped a shift from third to fourth without me shifting, under load. Will be trying to add fluid with engine running this week.

Engine running, A/C on, Vag temp between 30 and 50c (it's stamped on your pan).

[lswing]

Engine running, A/C on, Vag temp between 30 and 50c (it's stamped on your pan).

That's what I was thinking, will post up how much it's low (assuming it is) in a week or two...

Same exact symptom as last year after work and was a quart low, jumped 3rd to 4th under full load.

[905084]

That's what I was thinking, will post up how much it's low (assuming it is) in a week or two...

Same exact symptom as last year after work and was a quart low, jumped 3rd to 4th under full load.

3rd to 4th unscripted because of a quart low?? and well, if that was last year, why did it leak a quart in a year?

[lswing]

3rd to 4th unscripted because of a quart low?? and well, if that was last year, why did it leak a quart in a year?

Because my old trans ate it 6 months later, got the new trans in and had it refilled by someone else, now this.

[905084]

Because my old trans ate it 6 months later, got the new trans in and had it refilled by someone else, now this.

So it's really a new trans problem, not necessarily a fill problem?

[lswing]

New trans has been fine until now, 7 months good. Two months ago we flushed and filled again to get out any old/extra debris and add an upgraded fluid. My guess is, since it was filled without the set procedure as it was before, it's low...I suppose, will try and fill it running this week.

[G2]

Mine was over 2 qts low (before I bought it). It caused the trans to lose 5th gear lockup under medium loads, but didn't flare or entirely miss gears. there was a noticeable whining, but was due to oil starvation and cavitation. Gone when flushed out and correctly serviced. Sometimes cars have an occasional electronic hiccups...

If the oil filter is excessibly modified it could increase fluid starvation, but cant comment as to how much the oil level goes down at full load (G forces?). But to be a problem 2 months later? But based on my measurements there is about 7mm, between the oil pan and stock oil pickup tube.

When the trans was rebuilt was the front or center diffs also serviced or rebuilt? They're attached to the trans and could transmit noises. Or the rear end? Most "whine" sounds are usually hypoid gear related, a good place to start checking, if not already done so. If the problem persists, might be worth talking with the trans rebuilder or if it's still under warranty?

[mbagge01]

I just finished a transmission fluid change with some redline, and after accelerating, I do hear what has been described as a supercharger whine. I did check the length of the pickup pipe on the filter with the one that was already installed, and they were the same length. I am not sure if the whine was there before the transmission flush, but I only recently decided to listen for it after reading this thread right before I changed the fluid, so it could have been there before and I was not listening for it. Is there some long term damage that can occur if I do not trim it as described or is it just an annoying sound to deal with. I have no codes and the car drives and shifts smoothly with me 10sec tune.

[mbagge01]

One other thing I wanted to add is that I heard it could also be caused by a low fluid level but I followed the steps for filling the fluid level and watching the tranny temp. What is the best way to check to see if I have enough fluid. Do I just open to fill whole with the car off and see if fluid flows out, or should I let the tranny temp get up to 35-40 degrees and then open to fill whole to see if fluid comes out?

[hahnmgh63]

Definitely don't open the filler plug with the engine off or it'll pour out a few quarts of fluid. Start it up Cold while monitoring the temp open the fill plug and fill if needed if fluid isn't coming out by 30'C ~ 35'C. Audi say's 35'C but many believe it's better be a touch over than under, and at those temps were talking about a difference in ounces.

[mbagge01]

Thanks hahnmgh63, but so I understand correctly, I will start the car and then open filler pipe to see if anything is draining. If nothing is draining do I add fluid until it does and cycle through gears as with initial fill, or do I not add fluid and wait for temperature to get up to 30-35 and only add fluid at that point if nothing is coming out.

[lswing]

If you filled it right why are you asking about how to check the level? It's one in the same, add fluid, let it overflow. I've been through multiple fills and always go back a week later, tops off with .5 to 1 quart more. Manual is on my website if you need it. Just top it off correct temp and method, should be golden!

Good to be safe, but you'll hear extra stuff when you think it might be there. There's always a bit of whine. Maybe the new clean fluid lets things spin free and also allows more sound through since it's not sludge, never know.

[hahnmgh63]

Yes, start it and then pull the filler plug and start filling right away. Once full, and hopefully below 35'C, you let it drip until reaching 30'C ~ 35'C.

[mbagge01]

Lswing, my misunderstanding with checking the fluid level is that with the initial fill, the pan is filled up until it flows out and the car is cycled through gears repeating until the 30-35 degrees is reached and it flows out. So for rechecking it, after I start the car, if it flows out at the starting temperature I have enough fluid and do not need to wait until it warms up to 30-35?

[hahnmgh63]

If it flows out while running and cold then it's overfilled too much. Needs to warm up and drip some more. Conversely, if you let it drip or don't get it full until the temp is say 40'C or higher then the fluid level will be low when running.

[mbagge01]

Hahnmgh, the instructions I had where to keep putting the filling plug back on between checking the level as the temperature increased. Should I have just left it off because at the end, it was pouring out, not dripping. Could I have over filled it.

[hahnmgh63]

I guess it depends on how much it could possibly have been pouring out. If you start it up and pull the filler plug and it starts running out right away then it's overfilled. If that happens just leave the plug out and monitor the temperature until it's in range and cap it off, shut down and you're all done. I could imagine a little low might cause a whine but not high, but possibly if it was causing some foaming. Also if the intake pickup tube was too long it could cause issues/starvation. Long term I could see the starvation causing issues.

[mbagge01]

Hahnmgh, do I need to cycle through the gears for the level check also

[hahnmgh63]

I think that's more to maybe help get air out of the system and/or for it to heat up faster, not really necessary in your case unless your checking it real cold and want to get it up to temp faster. This time of year in the PNW it'll take a while for it to heat up unless your already starting in a heated garage. 35'C is only 95'F.

[mbagge01]

Does anyone know what the appropriate length the uptake tube should be. I have my old filter that I could check the length on which is same as one I put in, but both could be too long for all I know.

[G2]

Shortening the pickup 3-6mm should be adequate. I carefully profile the opening.

Setting the fluid level also requires the vehicle being level.

After filter replacement adding extra oil helps offset the natural tendency of being low(erd) once driven.

Whining sound may be the rear diff (if not low ATF, etc)if not the center or front diffs. I use 190wt race oil in one of mine to reduce harmonics. And 85-140 in the others.

[mbagge01]

Based off your response of shortening the pickup pipe, are there not any audi filters that are the appropriate length, or is there a specific part number that is

[mbagge01]

One thing I should also mention is that I decided to use an aftermarket filter made by Meistersatz and wonder if that could be part of the problem. Pelican parts mentions that another brand by ZF is an OES supplier. Does anyone know if the original genuine OEM filter is made by ZF. I am going to assume that most of you would probably respond by saying just use an OEM filter and trim it slightly as mentioned in other posts.

[hahnmgh63]

ZF makes the tranny so I'm sure that is what comes in it new but who Audi uses as a supplier for the part may vary over the years. ZF, Meyle, Mahle, who knows?

[lswing]

Stock pickup tube is a bit long, or too close to the pan. Trim cleanly as mentioned to assure fluid flow if the pan gets dented up for any reason. I'd confirm the measurements if you're not using OEM.

[G2]

On a personal note, have been dubious of any purported filter flow issues. But, better safe than sorry. Could hook up a pressure transducer and plot pressures....

Engineers calculate all aspects of the design and operation process. There is likely more of a risk with low oil starvation than flow issues for street driven cars. Max RPM is sporatic and short lived. If the trans doesn't slip with an appropriate fluid, TCU is uprated to match engine power, then that should be "it". It works w/o issues.

In terms of different brands, again these should be template copy designs of OE specs. Cheap off brands may compromise the design and function. Have noticed different filter pad densities/texture with various brands. This could effect flow rates, in addition to the pickup tube clearance.

An old high mileage trans may not "take kindly" to marginalized designs. Some transmissions won't tolerate a fluid change, causing immediate problems or failure. Personal/observed experience.

Biggest issues, speaking from experience, on these cars, is fluid condition and level. The ATF blend I've been working on for the last couple years seems to also be an improvement in matching friction qualities to condition of trans, among other aspects.

[mbagge01]

As an update, I went ahead and changed out the filter, and to my surprise, the aftermarket filter I had used was about 1/8 of an inch longer than the audi one that was in there before. I went ahead and put in the new filter after trimming it about 1/4 of an inch and the whining sound has seem to have finally resolved. I will say that the ZF brand (OES) filter and gasket are the same as the genuine OEM ones so for those replacing them, so you can get them for dramatically less at pelican parts than genuine OEM ones from audi

[6172crew]

The filter from BND is short for better flow. I have one at the house and can take a measurement if anyone is interested. Im debating swapping fluids right now, I have 86k on teh car and dont want to lunch the transmission.

[mbagge01]

6172crew, I would be interested to know the length of the tune. I have an OEM and aftermarket filter that I could measure the length to make a comparison

[6172crew]

I will pull it out of the box when I get home and try to post a pic, and measurement of the tube.:revs: