Throwing out this feeler for you boost addicts

[na1mt]

Had a conversation with my turbo shop at length about the RS6 today. He is confident he can design/build/tune a system for us that would make up to 1000 HP at the wheels depending on the insanity of the owner. As far as I know there are no shops in the USA offering this type of upgrade. Of coarse I imagine a resleeve, pistons and rods would be part of the equation. Like I said just really throwing it out here to see if there would be any interest at all. I can speculate that the pricing would be in the 15-18k range with the motor rebuild. I think the only problem to be sorted would be the transmission,which I will inquire if possible at Level 10.

[4everRS]

I call bullshit.

Big talker if you ask me. Even the crazy bastards at Gumpert max out this platform at 800 ps.

[na1mt]

My built 3.0 6cyl motor makes upwards of 850 at the wheels on race fuel....regular 93 octane pump conservative tune 600wheel. The earth was once thought to be flat as well. More fuel + more boost + proper tuning = more power. Having come from another side of tuning(Japanese platforms) I never understood the concept of "one flash fits all" since every motor and situation is relatively unique based on climate, sea level, engine tolerances...bla,bla,bla. Having said that why would you think that if you address strengthening the bottom end, increase the fuel delivery capacity and add bigger turbos that that number cannot be reached? I'm not looking to start any heated debates especially since I'm relatively new here....simply asked if it was something that perked interest if it is in fact possible. The only real issues I can forsee are the transmission and the size of the space that is able to be utilized to accommodate the bigger turbos.

[hahnmgh63]

Anything is possible but there are many questions a builder that hasn't doen it before needs to ask or else it will be trial and error. How much power will the Rods take? The crankshaft? Pistons? Will it need additional cooling above & beyond the 3 radiator standard in N. America? Special Headgaskets? Special exhaust manifolds to handle the flow? Sounds like a lot of money could be involved but it is possible with lots of money.

[na1mt]

As I posted from the start a motor build would include a resleeve,rods and pistons to handle the power. The only mystery would be the crankshaft. The exhaust manifold would be scrapped for a total replacement all the way back to your rear bumper. Basically take your complete turbo system and start over.

[DHall1]

I can understand your passion to build the super killer beast at 1000hp but there may be the reality of why the other owners here have an RS6 parked in the garage. Most owners that purchased this car at 90-80-70k and even 40-50k are just happy with a rare piece of RS history and enjoy the car for what it is. It is what it is and I dont imagine I could reinvent the wheel for 15-18k. Hell, I have had my car for over 3yrs and I'm just getting around to buying a Milltek exhaust. Just the exhaust is costing me 1600 so I dont think you could build what you planned for 15k. I would never hack up a piece of RS history. I would buy a 2000 B5 S4 shell and go to town on it instead. Oh yeah, and there is this thing called a PO from the CFO in my house. Yes honey, I'm going to rip apart a perfectly running RS6 and dump another 50k in it just to go out and blow it up and dump another 50k after. Not going to go over very well. LOL

[na1mt]

I can appreciate that train of thought. I personally wouldn't hack up my car either. Original point of this was just a "feeler" to gauge interest. As far as pricing goes you might be surprised....mostly labor as the engine internals,new turbos arent that bad. The motor rebuild would prolly be 10k of the total number. I think the car is awesome as is but I have this little devil on my shoulder prodding me to go a little further....lol. Think of it as my own little stem cell research project...hehe.

[na1mt]

Most important aspect of this would be retain the complete integrity and reliability of the car. One of the more popular threads on here is about a six speed conversion......isn't that kinda messing with RS history since it was never an option here in the US? Not for everyone I understand...I'll keep you all informed as I proceed. Will be a springtime project.

[na1mt]

I like that.....lmao.....PO from the CFO. I'm gonna let this thread die due to friction as I didn't intend to create a debate. Let you guys know how it turns out. First order is to get my numbers for custom rods,pistons, and custom head gaskets from Cometic.

[na1mt]

Forged rods by integrated engineering $1200
Forged rods by pauter $1500
Forged pistons around $1000
Resleeve motor around $2400

[nene]

You have "cajones" of forged steel na1mt. I would not personally engage in this adventure, mainly because I feel it would never be worth in the end.
HOWEVER.... I am pulling for you and wish you luck. Even if you don't get to that magical 1000HP, something good can come out of this.

Besides a wickedly powerful engine, certainly you will help us in other aspects:
- gauge the viability of other parts in strength and the condition
- gauge value of vendors some of us never dealt with
- knowledge for sure
- etc

Whether your pull the trigger now that the bullet is in the chamber, or not, you must keep us posted.
Good luck my friend. I like to believe we are mostly family here by now.

[speedtrapped]

It will be interesting to see..... I have yet to properly "tune" my configuaration, more fueling, bigger turbo(turbine side), exhaust, ya da ya da...is my car driveable? yes, can it be tuned to optimize what I have-yes(DBR tune sucks) I was originally hoping for 700/800 at crank(previos owner Maha'ed dyno the output @ 630/740crank), remember expect a 23-27% loss to tip. I think my goal is acheivable....Cost...what i bought was a wrecked rs6, that had $40k in u/g to engine...$40k!!!, as stated everything for this car is expensive. My tranny cost the original owner, $10k, the DBR stage3 was $20k+, I am into the swap at $6k labor, net of wrecked parts sold $7k.....$13k total. No internals changed, etc, etc.
Now Ron may be refferring to my extra RS6 engine I am in possesion of, as well as rebuilt tranny. I likely would not go that extreme, unless I actually planned to track car permently.
I just dont see dropping that kind of cake now. Or Ron could be doing this on his own, believe me he is obessed with his NSX, and spent some serious $ on it.

[4everRS]

I apologize for the rhetoric in my previous post. There were a few cocktails influencing my comments. If you acctually pursue this adventure, I wish you the best if luck. I believe that it may not happen. Let that be motivation for you. I promise to eat the words in the previous post if you pull it off.

I would agree that the question is the crank. Although I seem to remember it is a forged piece. A picture in a post a while back showed wide and flat casting lines, indicating it is forged.

[DHall1]

I hear ya but when you increase the power output that much on the entire chassis things start to just break. Looking at some of the nasty fast B5 S4's out there just goes to show how extreme the modifications have trailed into suspension, driveline, axels, diffs to hold that much power. Heck, our heat exchangers can just now keep up with things at the current level of tune....how the heck are you going to cool the 1000hp beast? yeeks I remember a few years back when a big Supra guy built up a One Lap 94TT and found that the massive front mount intercooler was great for reducing the IATs but ended up overheating the car in real world driving and track use. There is only so much frontal room to mount heat exchangers.


Most important aspect of this would be retain the complete integrity and reliability of the car. One of the more popular threads on here is about a six speed conversion......isn't that kinda messing with RS history since it was never an option here in the US? Not for everyone I understand...I'll keep you all informed as I proceed. Will be a springtime project.

[ttboost]

I think this venture is a waste of time, and more importantly, money, on this platform...and I modify EVERYTHING I own. The engine would probably make as much power as you would need, hell, it's a Cosworth!!! The tune will keep it alive. Apparently your guy has never has the engine and trans out of one of these? No room (physically) for much improvement. The transmission is nearly hopeless. I haven't heard of or seen one that is "bulletproof" at anything under 500whp..let alone 1000? Then you say..well 6 speed conversion? I bought MY car because it was an automatic, albeit a shitty one. If I wanted a stick car, I would have kept my 700hp 996 Turbo? Good luck on your venture. But please take some time and say a nice farewelll to your cash, your patience and your spouse if you have one...it will be a long regrettable road...

Just my .02...don't take it personally...

[speedtrapped]

I spoke with Ron about this, if u knew him, u would understand - it has nothing to do with practicality, he wants to be only one in US with it. Nutty, yes...but I get it. Passion borders on insanity.

[ttboost]

Not taking shots....I would love to see it as much as the rest of you...but...

[mmaturo]

Good luck with the transmission.

[na1mt]

Ok....in my original post the key words were "up to" lol. I talked with machinist today who has had considerable experience building S4 4.2's. He made a call to Darton to see if they would make sleeves...answer was yes. Cometic will make one off sets of copper head gaskets. All in all all the parts are available and the complete motor build would come in as I expected at 10k. I will call Level 10 when I get a chance to discuss transmission options as I would really want to remain automatic. As far as the IAT the stock IC would have to be swapped out for a set of Wagners and let the meth take care of the rest. The whole thing hinges on what will fit without cutting up the car. If that answer is nothing than I won't bother with it. As far as it being a waste of time and money....you only live once. As far as my significant othand leaving me over it....it
must suck to live at your house....just my .02.... Don't take it personally

[Hammer]

I'm interested!!! Will be fun to see what can be done. :o)

[JSRS6]

Awww, c'mon. It was better before you edited it.

[na1mt]

Lol....was a little harsh.......true......but I counted to 10 and thought better of it.

[ben916]

we are all one big family... except for that wit4444 dude and sometimes Dave goes off and Skribe is off his meds...

[kismetcapitan]

The problem with more boost is more lag. 700bhp out of a 2.0l Lancer Evo engine is done all the time. But try driving it off-boost. In my Skyline, if you're not in the right gear and the turbos aren't spooled, you can literally floor the pedal and NOTHING happens. At all.

I love modding everything possible, and I like to tune by a rule of 200bhp/liter at the crank, but after spending more and more time in my RS6, the less I want to do anything to it. I think I'm going to chop the mufflers and that's about it. Maybe anti roll bars, but I'm not even thinking lowering springs anymore, as the car sits so well as it is.

[ttboost]

Lol....was a little harsh.......true......but I counted to 10 and thought better of it.


Assume that's for me...I'm a big boy and have a sense of humor...was hopin you did too....anyway..been there done that. I have modified probably 30 cars in my life. My RS6 is probably the only one I will not go farther than the flash and maybe a meth kit. I am all for hotrodding this car, just gonna wait for someone else to pioneer this one...not me this time. Good luck and keep us posted.

[skribe]

we are all one big family... except for that wit4444 dude and sometimes Dave goes off and Skribe is off his meds...

Oh, I'm always on the meds. The self-meds anyway :) A six-pack of cold Coronas and sportscenter is all I need to get my mind right.

I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done if you go there. Long-term, when my beast rotates out of daily driver duty in the next couple years, I would love to tune the hell out of it and go for... ludicrous speed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0

[speedtrapped]

^^^ how have you been?

[MaxRS6]

Owoooo-- It would be a very fun Trailblazer project to follow!!!


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSak74bcpKeV5GG65dWtT2LZAr_klGOE 0XA_nf8jnnCm6CJ1V2_leMUNhchuA
Thar's gold and coal in there them hills...00000

[Elevens]

My car also is a daily Driver to and from work. It is Ridiculously fast already. To make it any faster would either send me to Jail or 6 foot under. All that is required is a good tune and a Zero restriction exhaust system (no cats) and these things scream. Going home I will be doing 80-90 mph, step on it and within an instant I'm doing 140-150 mph. I can't imagine needing any more power. But to each his own I guess. The next time I spend money on this thing will be for a set of C6 RS6 binders to slow it down.

[RSSIK]

My car also is a daily Driver to and from work. It is Ridiculously fast already. To make it any faster would either send me to Jail or 6 foot under. All that is required is a good tune and a Zero restriction exhaust system (no cats) and these things scream. Going home I will be doing 80-90 mph, step on it and within an instant I'm doing 140-150 mph. I can't imagine needing any more power. But to each his own I guess. The next time I spend money on this thing will be for a set of C6 RS6 binders to slow it down.

how much did your no cat exhaust run you if i might ask?

[skribe]

^^^ how have you been?

All good in the hood speed. Been too busy travelling this summer to post much... but the beast is running strong and throwing no codes at the moment. :) Congrats on your CTS-V... thought about one myself, our rover is getting a bit long in the tooth.

Blasting up to Lambeu for a meaningless but damn fun pre-season game tonight. :revs::incar::hey:

[JSRS6]

Owoooo-- It would be a very fun Trailblazer project to follow!!!


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSak74bcpKeV5GG65dWtT2LZAr_klGOE 0XA_nf8jnnCm6CJ1V2_leMUNhchuA
Thar's gold and coal in there them hills...00000

Randy, that was the longest subscribe email ever. Weird.

[MaxRS6]

^- I know not what you speak..

[Elevens]

how much did your no cat exhaust run you if i might ask?


The Milltek Racing (Catless) Downpipes Ran about $1400 shipped from Unit20. The Milltek Non Resonated Exhaust system ran about $1800.00 shipped from England also. I wanted the Satin Tip version which I could only get from overseas at the time. Maybe you can get them over hear now, I don't know. You could also De-Cat your stock system, but I opted for a Catless designed system. The diameter of the Milltek system is slightly larger than Stock, and it sounds Brutal while being neighborhood friendly. Hope this answers your question and I didn't go off topic.

[JSRS6]

The email I got saying that you posted on this thread was like three pages of gibberish.

Allow me to enlighten ya, sorry for the length:


Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Owoooo-- It would be a very fun Trailblazer project to follow!!!

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Thar's gold and coal in there them hills...00000

[RSSIK]

Thanks I really appreciate it. I wish to only hear one in person and I know that will make my decision immediately.

[MaxRS6]

The email I got saying that you posted on this thread was like three pages of gibberish.
Allow me to enlighten ya, sorry for the length:


LOL- That is a little wordy...

[s42ski]

So I would love to see the results - but I am on Dave's thinking here - you are going to end up with something that sort of looks like an RS6, but is really a custom car - I owned a 280Z with 450HP at the crank from the original block 2.8L engine. Everything was modified on the car. I would almost think that starting with an S6 and going forward from that would make more sense. The issues from transmission, drive axles, differentials all make this seem like a huge undertaking. And COOLING.... maybe if you only drive it in the winter in NJ??

15 to 18K would not even get this party started in my opinion. I would guess $50K+ to get a reliable crank 1000HP with 700+ at the wheels. And that is with maintaining some level of comfort and driveability (A/C still works - car can be driven on city streets - passess emissions test etc.)

[speedtrapped]

well, I agree that budgets are never what they seem. But, its been done in Europe, MRC has made some monster C5 RS6's, 1000hp, no, but close and not even touching bottom end, as for cooling, I would love to hear feedback from anyone across the pond, who is familiar with thier work... a sample

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M-37ED5oMY

[na1mt]

Ok.....spoke with Level 10 today. They are confident that they can build the transmission to hold the power. Price was less than I thought...they quoted between $5-6k. Complete motor build $10k. Turbo components $6k. Initially I did not include the transmission cost because I had no idea if they could even do it. So I'm gonna say all in with any incidentals would be between $25-30k for a daily driveable completely insane beast. This will be a lengthy build...my first order of business is to locate a salvage title C5 A6 4.2 that can be dropped off at turbo shop for fitment. When completed, the idea is to market the turbo system as a bolt on upgrade that will have the flexibility to work with stock components as well as completely built platforms for the true boost junky...lol.

[JSRS6]

You might be able to find a salvage rs6 with rear end damage to use for cheap...

[na1mt]

That would be ideal but not likely....let me know if you come across one.....I'm in no big rush.

[JSRS6]

There have been some recently...