Possible hyper performance diesel from BMW

[Joker]

http://www.automotorsport.se/bilder/_imge.php?i=209161&w=9999&h=9999&f=0&a=UxYTFkMzhhOW

The image has started a rumor that is gathering momentum at an alarming rate. Is this the first clue that BMW are preparing to release a new hyper performance diesel that is rumored to use their trusted inline six cylinder 3.0L but this time using three turbos (yeah you heard right). Suggested output is believe to be 400hp with upwards of 600ft/lbs.

[darkop]

Yes and I already mentioned that. It's been rolling in my neck of the woods for hot weather testing couple of months already. After learning this, it is very sad to see that Audi only manages to introduce 3.0 bi-turbo TDI almost 8 years after BMW and 2.0 biTDI hasn't been out yet... And they somehow want to be known as a TDI pioneer and similar BS...

[Joker]

Yeah it's unfortunate that Audi aren't leading the field in production diesel technology even though they are the undisputed leaders with it in motorsport. The only thing I don't fully buy into is the suggested output of 400hp, this figures sound about 40-50hp too high in my opinion.

[The RS6]

Boys, you seem to be forgetting about what's still the strongest diesel around. V12 TDI :)

[Joker]

Boys, you seem to be forgetting about what's still the strongest diesel around. V12 TDI :)

Spectacular engine the V12TDI definitely is and arguably the greatest diesel .................. but can you fit it in an A8 or even an A6/7 ????

No of course not, but you can fit this engine in to 5/6/7/X5/X6 which makes it all the more impressive.

[darkop]

Boys, you seem to be forgetting about what's still the strongest diesel around. V12 TDI :)
Diesels are (should be) all about economy. This one is not.

[Benman]

Yeah it's unfortunate that Audi aren't leading the field in production diesel technology even though they are the undisputed leaders with it in motorsport.
^^^EXACTLY this sentence^^^

[The RS6]

Diesels are (should be) all about economy. This one is not.

Are you sure about that? Why is that so? Why wouldn't they be considered the ultimate powerhouses which can provide substantialy more power for every $ spent on fuel?

What I mean is, ok, currently the main trend in the industry is low consumption and that's where diesels rule.

But what I don't understand nor like is the fact that most people consider diesel engines somehow inferior and they mostly speak about constumption as their only advantage...

[Erik]

The image has started a rumor that is gathering momentum at an alarming rate. Is this the first clue that BMW are preparing to release a new hyper performance diesel that is rumored to use their trusted inline six cylinder 3.0L but this time using three turbos (yeah you heard right). Suggested output is believe to be 400hp with upwards of 600ft/lbs.


I can confirm this, heard it over a year ago but promised not to tell. Now it seems to be 'common knowledge'. ;)

Perhaps a 4.0 litre, tri-turbo? :)

[Joker]

I can confirm this, heard it over a year ago but promised not to tell. Now it seems to be 'common knowledge'. ;)

Perhaps a 4.0 litre, tri-turbo? :)

4.0L????

Almost all the posts on BMW related forums refer to an inline six 3.0L, is there something you know about it actually being 4.0L. In any case it's very exciting to think it will possibly use 3 turbos, can't imagine how that will work or the sheer complexity of it.

[Erik]

4.0L not confirmed, but the rest sounds "ok" ;)

[ChicagoAudi]

Interesting about the 4.0L Diesel and perhaps the reason why an engine bay photograph was pulled from the following website:

http://www.quattroworld.com/spy-shots/spied-the-audi-rs7-and-new-4-0l-biturbo-tfsi-engine/

Evidently, Audi did not want too much released before Frankfurt.

[Z07]

The 640d could just be a slightly tweaked X35d. High performance diesels are a difficult one. When you get up into reasonably serious performance, and subsequently money, people tend to go for petrol engines for the response and sound. I'm not really sure there's a huge market for 400hp diesels but I could be wrong.

[Joker]

Z07, are you kidding. Europe is diesel central, has been for the last seven or so years. The main disadvantage of performance petrols is that their mpg doesn't greatly improve when you slow down and drive normally unlike diesels which return some staggering figures with driven normally.

I am willing to bet anything that a 550d will out sell the 550i by 3 to 1 in Europe.

[Z07]

Z07, are you kidding. Europe is diesel central, has been for the last seven or so years. The main disadvantage of performance petrols is that their mpg doesn't greatly improve when you slow down and drive normally unlike diesels which return some staggering figures with driven normally.

I am willing to bet anything that a 550d will out sell the 550i by 3 to 1 in Europe.
Well that's no big thing. 550is are extremely rare. Rarer than M5s. 82% of all 5-series sales are made up by the 520d. If people were interested in 'hyper' performance diesels you'd expect to see 525, 530 and 535ds making up a far larger proportion of sales. Couple this with the fact that diesels usually cost more than petrols and you need to be doing 30k miles per year to make it worth it, maybe more at the top end of the diesel scale. A 640d would likely be about £70-80k. People willing to spend that much don't really care about frugality, if they did, they simply wouldn't spend that much in the first place. Half that much would cover the total mileage likely to be done with the car several times over. It would also buy a 520d.

[Joker]

The reason over 80% are 520d is it's the rep mobile of the 5 series just like the A62.0d will be the rep mobile of the A6 range. You can't look at overall figures to get a proper reflection of what the public buy.

In any case I wasn't denying it wouldn't be a roaring success or overtake lesser model in the sells stake, I'm just saying that proportionally a performance diesel will out sell the petrol equivalent and if it is as good as I think it will be then I would pick it over the 550i in a heart beat, even if it were more expensive it buy simply for the effortless torque of a diesel.

[Z07]

The reason over 80% are 520d is it's the rep mobile of the 5 series just like the A62.0d will be the rep mobile of the A6 range. You can't look at overall figures to get a proper reflection of what the public buy.

In any case I wasn't denying it wouldn't be a roaring success or overtake lesser model in the sells stake, I'm just saying that proportionally a performance diesel will out sell the petrol equivalent and if it is as good as I think it will be then I would pick it over the 550i in a heart beat, even if it were more expensive it buy simply for the effortless torque of a diesel.
Maybe for novelty value I guess. The 550i is a bad example though. Pretty much anyone in that category would just opt for the M5. I've seen as many 288 GTOs as I've seen 550is - just one sghting of each.

[Benman]

Hmm... can't delete the spam post?

[Erik]

Hmm... can't delete the spam post?

Done. Very clever code, and I'm furious.

[Benman]

Done. Very clever code, and I'm furious. Yeah, we are getting a TON of these lately!

[JavierNuvolari]

Anyways, back on topic. I just finished my daily lurking at the car lounge and found.....this : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5402254-BMW-confirms-M-tuned-5-Series-diesel
I really think BMW has gone one step further engineering wise, but to be honest the maintance on that thing is going to be a nightmare 3 snails!?

Cheers.

[Benman]

Anyways, back on topic. I just finished my daily lurking at the car lounge and found.....this : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5402254-BMW-confirms-M-tuned-5-Series-diesel
I really think BMW has gone one step further engineering wise, but to be honest the maintance on that thing is going to be a nightmare 3 snails!?

Cheers. If this ends up being true then I really feel Audi missed the boat. ESPECIALLY considering (as was already pointed out in this thread) their current dominance in diesel racing!

[chewym]

Anyways, back on topic. I just finished my daily lurking at the car lounge and found.....this : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5402254-BMW-confirms-M-tuned-5-Series-diesel
I really think BMW has gone one step further engineering wise, but to be honest the maintance on that thing is going to be a nightmare 3 snails!?

Cheers.

I think the hype is outpacing the actual engine, I don't see it making 500 horsepower from a 3 liter diesel engine. The next M3 is rumored to use a turbocharged 3 liter gasoline engine and produce 450 or so horsepower. The current M5 produces 565 horsepower from a 4.4 liter twin-turbo gasoline engine.

I see a 350-400 horsepower 3 liter 6 cylinder diesel or possibly a 400-500 horsepower 4 liter V8 diesel for the proposed "M tuned" or 50d models. 500 horsepower from 3 liters is a higher per liter output than the 3.8 turbo V8 from the MP4-12C and on the level of 911 turbo and Nissan GT-R. I don't see that happening in a street diesel for some time just yet.

[Benman]

Perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves.

So I'll sit tight. ;)

[Toto89]

Audi missed nothing in my opinion. There is absolutely no need for a 400-500hp diesel in the 5 or 7 series. It's nothing but a marketing issue, just like V12 diesel in Q7. If someone wants to buy a fast luxury car, let's see an Audi for example...: there is the A6/7/8 with a 3.0 TDI is just perfect for every theoretical conditions i can imagine. With 6s acceleration and a very reasonable consumption in such a car, it is the definition of the luxurious daily driver. Anyone looking for something more exclusive, should take a Bentley, Ferrari, Mercedes SL...etc. Even the current top diesel, the bi-turbo 3 liter is something beyond useful i think. The only way BMW can took over with this is changing the mostly hyped high performance models from petrol to diesel before Audi does. The costumers of M5 and RS6 models don't really care about the consumption, yet, or at least this isn't the decisive thing. Audis know-how in diesel racing should reflect in the engine most people use in the every day life, not only in Audis, but in VW, Skoda, Seat and other brands as well.

Edit: This is of course regarding to today conditions, when the need for a 400hp 3L diesel engine will raise (e.g by extreme downsizing... ) Audi will also be there, just like they did with the 300hp bi-turbo.