Exhaust Manifold Question

[MaxRS6]

Hello Brain Trust:

The car lost all boost on passenger side again. The techs are revisiting the piece of metal that clogged in the turbo originally. A theory being floated is that maybe the exhaust manifold is coming apart. Does anyone have pics of the inside of our exhaust manifold, or have one off that they can shoot some pics with a borescope?

The metal piece that lodged in the original turbo has very little magnetism. However; speculation is it may have lost magnetism due to the high heat that runs through it. We are wondering if the manifold may be the source of the original piece of metal, and perhaps another piece has come off into the turbo again. They borescoped the valves and it all looks good. The motor sounds very good at idle and the techs doubt the metal ran through the engine. The techs were also very impressed with how clean the engine internals look and are very confident the engine is good.

Have any of you all experienced or know of internal parts of the manifold disintegrating? The techs would also like to know if welds could have come apart? It looks like the engine may be coming out again- ouch.

Any thoughts/comments? TIA guys!

Here is the pic of the metal piece that lodged in the original turbo that started the transplant.

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0911.jpg
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0909.jpg

[hahnmgh63]

Mine are off the car and I had them Ceramic coated but I won't be home until 1 August plus or minus a day. I have a video borescope but mine doesn't record. I can, and was planning to anyways, the inside just to see what they look like and let you know if I see anything that looks like it could be the culprit if you can wait.
P.S. The ceramic coating looks great, too bad the exhaust manifolds really can't be seen hiding down under the engine banks.
www.performancecoatings.com (http://www.performancecoatings.com)

[MaxRS6]

Thanks Hahn and will be appreciated if we are still in limbo at that point. Be safe on your travels..

[speedtrapped]

Man Randy u have the patience of a saint! I would be tearing my hair out.....good luck and Godspeed

[yokust]

I can take pictures on my extra set.

But I do not own a video scope to play with to tell you.

[DHall1]

You have hair left?

And yes, this could happen. The exhaust manifolds are glowing every time you place the right foot to the floor which in your case is every left and right.


Man Randy u have the patience of a saint! I would be tearing my hair out.....good luck and Godspeed

[s42ski]

Possible I suppose, but seems unlikely - cast iron may crack, but usually does not disintegrate like that. If the part was magnetized before then high heat can cause it to lose that, but it wont change the property of the base material. Welds on the other hand can definitely come apart and flake bits. That would be easy to see if the looked at the manifolds with a borescope.

but based on your experience with this dealer I am more thinking along the lines that they introduced some other contamination when they pulled things apart. :noshake:

[yokust]

Possible I suppose, but seems unlikely - cast iron may crack, but usually does not disintegrate like that. If the part was magnetized before then high heat can cause it to lose that, but it wont change the property of the base material. Welds on the other hand can definitely come apart and flake bits. That would be easy to see if the looked at the manifolds with a borescope.

but based on your experience with this dealer I am more thinking along the lines that they introduced some other contamination when they pulled things apart. :noshake:

OEM 4.2t manifolds and 2.7t manifolds are a stamped stainless items not cast

[s42ski]

OK - so that rules out the base material - also makes it less likely that the stainless is coming apart - also stainless is not magnetic. so either weld material, exhaust manifold or....

[hahnmgh63]

Not all Stainless materials are non-magnetic. Depends on what type of Stainless.

[MaxRS6]

Update- Mystery metal source found. The exhaust manifold was the source...

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/exhMF2.jpg?t=1312228549
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/exhMF1.jpg?t=1312228378
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/exhMF3.jpg?t=1312228405

It should look more like this one...

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/exhmf4.jpg?t=1312228958

[speedtrapped]

holy crap!!!!, ruh roh....didnt someone have a link to a header fabricator in Canada?? how many other flawed manifolds out there....

[4everRS]

Wowza. That is really disturbing. Randy, now I can count on this keeping me up at night if my teething daughter doesn't. Thanks.

Really great you found the cause. It's like the metal is just corroding and falling apart. Congrats on the discovery. At least you can sleep well tonight!

[hahnmgh63]

Anyone thing it may have been from overheating the manifold? High EGT's? Or just a manufacturing defect?

[4everRS]

High egt's should probably throw codes. My best guess is simply 150k miles, a hot APR tune and some track time.

[SteveKen]

Ho-lee-sheet.

Can you repair them? What do the exteriors look like?

If you need another set, I've got some low mileage ones.

[MaxRS6]

I've never had any code from the EGT. I assume time and heat just got the best of it. It is disappointing that this can blow apart and cause so much damage/cost to repair (engine pull, 2 turbos, 2 manifolds). Seems like engineering could come up with a way to for this not to happen- or at the very least some sort of trap to capture the metal so it doesn't blow through the turbo ripping it apart.

[JCviggen]

I don't think there is a way to trap it considering the temperatures, pressures and sheer amount of flow on the turbine side of the turbo. I think engineering has done a good job to prevent this from happening as I've never seen this happen before! Just plain unlucky there, remember that you were also operating it outside of design specs.

[MaxRS6]

^- Well- I'm certainly not an engineer and I may have just drawn a short straw as you state. I have rolled more miles than most and we'll see if others have this issue as miles are rolled. I've been the trail blazer on several items (DRC, fuel tank, etc)..;0

[marklar182]

Ho-lee-sheet.

Can you repair them? What do the exteriors look like?

If you need another set, I've got some low mileage ones.

The outsides probably wont show anything. The manifolds are a air gap design, so it is a manifold inside a manifold so to speak with air as the insulator.

Looks like to much heat to me. Time for an upgrade Max! Give MRC a call for their inconel units!

[ThrillHouse]

Wow - that is scary! Glad it was found though. I wonder who else may be having a similar issue, or may be setup for an issue... Hopefully people get "lucky" and if the metal breaks off, it breaks off back 'inside the manifold gap' and not get dumped into the exhaust like yours did.

[speedtrapped]

The outsides probably wont show anything. The manifolds are a air gap design, so it is a manifold inside a manifold so to speak with air as the insulator.

Looks like to much heat to me. Time for an upgrade Max! Give MRC a call for their inconel units!

Is this the shop that makes the headers? I think I may reach out to them.

[MaxRS6]

^If I had more time, I would probably do the same. However; I doubt the shop wants me taking up their lift space while the headers are built. I assume it would require too much time to get done.

[hahnmgh63]

I just did a thorough inspection of mine with a magnifying glass and even with the fresh ceramic coating inside & out I can see the seam where the sheet metal is rolled but no hairline cracks. With the ceramic coating they look better than new.

[1 bad 03 rs6]

I just did a thorough inspection of mine with a magnifying glass and even with the fresh ceramic coating inside & out I can see the seam where the sheet metal is rolled but no hairline cracks. With the ceramic coating they look better than new.

so you did get them ceramic coated. That's cool. was it the place in Kent?

[hahnmgh63]

Yea, www.performancecoatings.com (http://www.performancecoatings.com) I picked them up the day before I left, just got back last night. They look great, It's too bad nobody will see them where they mount but I should see a decrease in engine compartment temps. Family issues going on this week so I'm not sure when I'm getting started on putting everything back together.

[ben916]

Yea, www.performancecoatings.com (http://www.performancecoatings.com) I picked them up the day before I left, just got back last night. They look great, It's too bad nobody will see them where they mount but I should see a decrease in engine compartment temps. Family issues going on this week so I'm not sure when I'm getting started on putting everything back together.

Can you snap a photo or six and post them so people can view some manifold porn? just saying....