I'm on Meth

[4everRS]

Well I spent most of today putting in a meth kit. From the small amount I drove it after, it feels good. It comes with a progressive controller and I will probably play around with it yet to get it dialed in.

Dual nozzels, tapped the Y-pipe with the tranny was out (previous project)
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0585.jpg

Routing through cowl. Wanted to make this cleaner than having a line run across everything, but I was low on tubing, so this is how it's gonna be for now.
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0586.jpg

Boost line:
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0587.jpg

Had to make a goofy loop for the boost line
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0582.jpg

I used a separate tank rather than the windsheild tank to give me some flexibility for fluids later. I was able to fit the pump and tank inside the drivers side access panel. Had to take out the lower steel plate of the jack/tool holder (drilled out spot welds and repainted). Also took out the styrofoam liner to make room.
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/photo-1.jpg

Pump is mounted to wheel arch, can't really see it well behind the tank
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0590.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0588.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/IMG_0573.jpg

[PALETTE]

Nice! You running washer fluid or the real deal?

[MaxRS6]

A big congrats!:applause::applause:

[4everRS]

Washer fluid. I may add some heet if I get frisky. I don't think my ARP tune will work well with 100% meth.

[V8weight]

Nice clean install Kyle! I need to get on this! Mines currently installed in the cabinet in the garage....

[4everRS]

Nice clean install Kyle! I need to get on this! Mines currently installed in the cabinet in the garage....Thanks Pat. You know, you could hook up the system while it is sitting on your shelf. Then when it gets hot out again you can turn on on and cool yourself. Probably just use water though.

[speedtrapped]

Nice Kyle.... I want to re route my set up. I have snow stage 3, pump installed behind plastic wheel well wall, and windshield wiper tank. I am going to trunk set up. There is a nice difference when the parameters are crossed, mime is set up to start spraying around 8lbs and 40pw on injectors, and vroom it really can be felt.

[4everRS]

Now that I finished the install, I am pretty glad I did the tank mount. It was sort of a PITA working sideways in the trunk getting everything mounted, but worth it now IMO.

So Speed, I have mine starting at about 7psi and maxing at about 14-15. I have two 5gpm nozzle's. What is 40pw? Maybe Snow rates it different than devils own?

[PALETTE]

Washer fluid. I may add some heet if I get frisky. I don't think my ARP tune will work well with 100% meth.

50-50 cut with water

[speedtrapped]

Kyle PW is injector pulse width.

[4everRS]

Corey, I assume your suggesting that is the mix I use?

Speed, Are you talking about the meth injectors? I was hopeing to drive it more today to really see how it feels under full throttle, but I didn't get a good chance to do it. I can tell when it is on though. More testing tomorrow.

[kismetcapitan]

I've installed and played with water/alcohol injection on my Skyline GT-R, and found that with alcohol (either ethanol or methanol), I had to remap the ECU. I ended up just using water and just during the summer to help with intercooling (it injects right after the intercooler), but it still seemed to throw off AFRs a bit.

I've seen that some of you guys are installing meth kits; are you reflashing the ECUs, or is it purely to help the intercoolers to further cool down the air intake charge (and thus "gain" power by keeping the engine from pulling (retarding) timing from detecting knock)?

[4everRS]

For me it is the latter. I really just want a little cooler IAT's and a little more timing. My APR tune uses different settings I can choose on the fly, one being a 100 oct tune. The car will run on that tune without meth and on 92, but the ecu detects knock and dials back timing. I will be doing some logging to verify, but I am hoping to use 92 and meth and not give up timing. Cooler air is a bonus too.

I know some have gone the way of 100% meth but from what I've seen, they are useing custom tunes.

[speedtrapped]

Kyle, PW is a parameter snow uses, boost and PW set up on controller to initiate spray. Pulse width of fuel injector.

[4everRS]

Got it speed. Thanks for the clarification. Mine just uses a boost signal

[Pit Viper]

I'm a huge advocate of water/meth on turbo cars, and having been running a number of different systems for years now. My current favorite is the Aquamist HFS-6. I'm still looking for my RS6, but in the meantime, this is the setup on my 2.7 A6 -

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/dimone2/manifold4.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/dimone2/manifold5.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/dimone2/methtank.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/dimone2/A6%20Stage%203%20for%20sale/mods004.jpg

[ben916]

I'm a huge advocate of water/meth on turbo cars, and having been running a number of different systems for years now. My current favorite is the Aquamist HFS-6. I'm still looking for my RS6, but in the meantime, this is the setup on my 2.7 A6 -


Welcome!
About time you came over from the dark side :)

Stand by for MaxRS6...

[JSRS6]

Hey, look who else is running their DV's backwards...

[yagey]

but in the meantime, this is the setup on my 2.7 A6 -
Interested why you have a sprayer in each cylinder like that? I'm def. no expert, but I thought the idea was to spray a mist far enough away to allow the fluid to absorb heat and turn into mist before reaching the chamber? In my 300z I basically put large sprayers just after the intercoolers.
Also, any chance you are in CA and have to get visually smog inspected? I like your stealthy install :)

[Pit Viper]

There's a few different ways that water/meth helps with knock. One is to cool down the intake charge, in which case you want the nozzles far enough from the combustion chambers that the water has time to fully evaporate and cool the air.

Another way is by slowing down the flame-front, essentially raising the octane rating of your fuel. For this, you want the water droplets still fully in liquid form.

[snoopra]

Wow! Like the stealth install, and welcome!
Been busy with work gals and guys, not much posting lately(@ work right now). Can someone chime in and let me know exactly how the nozzle jets are installed in the Y pipe? I mean, anything special for tapping? Should I just install jets just after the Wagners?(sorry for the TJ)

[4everRS]

IMO you should mount them close to the throttle body. This will allow you to access them in the future if you want to change the nozzle size. Use a new tap when doing it. Go slow and use lube. That aluminum sticks to the tap so bad.
Wow! Like the stealth install, and welcome!
Been busy with work gals and guys, not much posting lately(@ work right now). Can someone chime in and let me know exactly how the nozzle jets are installed in the Y pipe? I mean, anything special for tapping? Should I just install jets just after the Wagners?(sorry for the TJ)

[Pit Viper]

How they mount depends somewhat on the kit you use. Generally it's just tap a hole and thread in the nozzle. Also, some of the company's offer mounting options for soft pipes (if you wanted to mount them in a silicone hose).

A good option is about 8-12" before the IAT sensor, so the ecu sees the cooler air charge and can give you the most benefit.

[4everRS]

everything is such a pita to get to input engine compartment, it makes our sensible options very limited. A mount in the hose would be great right before the Y pipe, but then you need to hope to never change it.

Good thing is with our cars that the IAT sensor is inside the intake manifold by the drivers side fuel rail (according to pat), being about 6-8 inches away from the TB, so it should be able to make a timing difference. BTW, anyone know off hand what log block IAT's are?

[MaxRS6]

Hmmm- I may need to consider this while they have the engine out...However; I don't know if I need to throw another item into the mix considering the march I've been on. However; I need to give this serious thought seeing that I'm located very close to the devil's gate. It was 102 here yesterday and I could barely manage to get in and out of the golf cart while chasing the white ball..LOL

[Pit Viper]

If nothing else, you could have fittings installed for the jets while the engine is out, and just block them off until such time as you decide to install it.
I live in Phoenix, and I'd never run a turbo car here without it.

[MaxRS6]

^ Thanks for the input Viper

[4everRS]

Just logged IAT's over lunch. Results are no water/meth vs. (you guessed it) water/meth injection. Measured in degrees C. Ambient temp is 30 C
OFF.......... ON
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[JSRS6]

Awesome Kyle! Great numbers!

[MaxRS6]

^ What he said..Nice reduction and I have to go check my piggy bank and tech's nerves...LOL

[snoopra]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/dimone2/A6%20Stage%203%20for%20sale/mods004.jpg
Pit Viper, where can I get that cool trick gauge pod?

[snoopra]

OK, will do.

IMO you should mount them close to the throttle body. This will allow you to access them in the future if you want to change the nozzle size. Use a new tap when doing it. Go slow and use lube. That aluminum sticks to the tap so bad.

[Pit Viper]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/dimone2/A6%20Stage%203%20for%20sale/mods004.jpg
Pit Viper, where can I get that cool trick gauge pod?

Find a good fiberglasser. :)

[speedtrapped]

Randy the meth injection really works, especially when u step on it, I have not dyno'ed since, but I have been running this system for 4 months....well worth it.

[ttboost]

have had it on my 996 turbo for a couple years now...HUGE inprovement on that car...

[peiserg]

anyone interested.. i've got the meth system i took out of my NSX... it's the Alkycontrol 3d progressive setup. includes everything, including newly rebuilt (by alkycontrol) pump. PM me here i guess.

[4everRS]

So I added a little HEET to the tank and got new IAT's. Now, an important variable that wasn't the same was ambient temp. It was 5'C cooler than the runs posted previously in this thread.

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[ThrillHouse]

Those reductions look amazing! A friend of mine has a cooling mist universal setup in a box that never got installed... Thoughts on how it works with a stock tune? How does that APR100 tune plus 92octane run with it? I'm considering a tune come spring time

[speedtrapped]

Kyle, HEET? which one, and added to meth/water mix?
Ty
Stephen

[Pit Viper]

Kyle, HEET? which one, and added to meth/water mix?
Ty
Stephen

Yellow HEET. It's essentially 100% methanol. I use it as my emergency source if I run out of water/meth and I'm not at home.

[4everRS]

Kyle, HEET? which one, and added to meth/water mix?
Ty
StephenYa Pit Viper said it. The -20 washer fluid is like 33% meth so adding a little HEET increases % of meth. It was a convenience thing. Wanted to try it out. The issue I have with using too much meth is that it will start to change the A/F ratios and I think I will really confuse the ECU. This is just my thought. I could be way off. Don't you guys think it is soo funny that I was using a product called HEET for a cooling effect?? hahaha right? (ok, i'm the only one)

Anyway, ThillHouse, as far as the stock tune, I say 'hell yes' it will help. I have been doing a few data logs regarding the APR100 and meth. The car pulls AWEsome. I checked the blocks 015 through 019 (or around there) and I have no misfires detected. Also checked the block for the knock sensors and everything checks out fine. I do however want to learn more about the timing and the way the timing changes over different boost and rpm levels.

[lswing]

Subscribed to the thread, great info! I've got a REVO tune and it feels like the ECU is always pulling back on full throttle. It's picking up the knock from the high tune and retarding the timing a bit I figure. Looking into putting this same kit in. I get 92 octane here, usually very clean from Chevron. I feel the tune is on the edge and needs to be cooled down a bit. Any info would be great, I'll check in with DevilSown also. Thanks!

PS; It's been about 80-90 the last week or so and I seem to be noticed the pulling of the timing more...

[ttboost]

The biggest reason to add water and/or meth is to mitigate detonation. The obvious benefit of this is to eliminate any timing retard, which nearly all of our cars do ,whether we know it or not, especially people in hot climates that get killer heat soak. The water acts as a cooling agent as does the meth, but the meth adds octane also. If you add a lot of meth you will richen your A/F, as Methanol IS fuel. If you plan to run a lot of meth or 100% meth (as I do in my 996 turbo) you need to modify your tune. You can see GREAT increases in power with this, but you will become beholden to it, as the safety's in most kits require you to run it all the time, ie, if you run out or don't use it, you will be running on wastegate...

ps..I run an Aquamist kit...expensive but worth it, if you care about your engine.

[Pit Viper]

ps..I run an Aquamist kit...expensive but worth it, if you care about your engine.

^This. I like Devil's Own, and have run some of their earlier stuff, as well as some Coolingmist (not a fan). However, once I started talking to Richard (head of Aquamist) about the HFS-5, I was quickly sold and bought it. I have since traded up to an HFS-6 system. Richard is a literal genius about water & water/meth injection, which is the reason WRC cars used to run Aquamist kits before they were ruled out.
-

[ttboost]

I have the old HFS-1. Still works mint...

[kevin]

I'm working with Snow to calculate what size nozzles I need for dual injection. They need to know est hp and boost (I have a Revo Stg 1 tune so about 530hp but w/o doing a VCDS data log I have no idea about boost) What is typical boost level for Revo Stg 1 tune?

Thanks!

[Pit Viper]

I'll bet a pair of M8's.

[lswing]

I've got the REVO stage 1 tune, I thinks it's about 515 at the engine. Kevin, do you get much of the ecu pulling timing, slight bumps on full boost? I'm hoping that a water meth kit will fix this for me, should do the trick. I'm looking at going with the DevilSown as it seems to be working good for folks.

Interesting details about the location of the nozzles in this thread. Anything more in depth regarding the best spot on the RS6?

[snoopra]

Would there be a benefit from installing jets between MAF and turbo inlet AND after IC's?

[kevin]

I believe the best location for them is 8 to 10" ahead of the TB on each charge pipe.

Anyone have an idea what the Revo Stg 1 boost is set at? Or do I have to get off my lazy butt and do some logging.

[4everRS]

The main thing on location IMO is to get the IAT sensors to notice the lower temps. This will allow the ecu to add timing and boost. Because our IAT's are well within the intake manifold, we don't really have to worry. I choose close the the TB for 2 reasons.
1) that in case there is "leaking" if the nozzles or the TB blade closes so quickly that there is still a reasonable amount of mist in the ypipe, it won't be as likely to "pool" because the vast majority if the spray is getting through the TB before it closes.
2) this is the biggest reason, that it I want to change nozzles, they are right there in front and on top. No need to pull out the lock support to do this. (btw, I am trying a little larger nozzle that are on their way. Glad I chose this location)

[Pit Viper]

What size nozzles are you currently running? And what water/meth mixture?

[4everRS]

I am intending to run 50/50 water meth. Right now I am doing it with washer fluid and heet. I want to get myself a 5gal barrel of meth.

I have 2 DO5's in now. I will try 7's and see where it takes me. your thoughts? I see you on the injection sites when I am lurking. Any advice is much appreciated.

[Pit Viper]

I think a pair of 7's is a good start. I used to run a pair of 5's on my SRT-4 making a lot less power.
Personally, I like running more, smaller nozzles, simply because you get better dispersion. However, I can see not wanting to tap a bunch of holes into your RS6.

[lswing]

How's the kit holding up? Looking at putting meth in this winter or spring. We looked at the y-pipe, should be a pain to get out, but probably the best place to tap in?

[4everRS]

How's the kit holding up? Looking at putting meth in this winter or spring. We looked at the y-pipe, should be a pain to get out, but probably the best place to tap in?Holding up great. Some may have read I was at a track event about a month ago. I could tell when the tank ran out. I set it pretty aggressive and by the end of the 25 minute session, I was usually almost out. About 8 - 10 laps of the 3.1 mile track. There was a session I forgot to fill the tank back up.

Ya, the best place is the Y-pipe IMO. You need to pull the bumper and tilt the lock support forward a little to get access to the bolts holding the Y-pipe to the TB.

[lswing]

Glad to hear it's going well. I could see that tank going quick if you're running aggressive. Yep, we talked about pulling the bumper to get to it, thanks for the confirmation. My car is running stronger now that it's about 50 degrees here all the time, but thinking that getting cooling directly into the system will help even more. I would think that with some spirited driving, and engine temps increasing, that the IC's are going to heat up some even on a cool day.