Turbo Time- Ooooff

[MaxRS6]

Well- long story short- turbos are shot via two separate shops/mechanics. After some minimal research and discussions with my new car mechanic, I've decided to stick with OEM turbos as it seemed to be the path of least resistance ($$$). Both turbos are being replaced along with oil cooler lines.

2011 has been a rebuilding year- It has been in the shop 4 months out of the 6 that have passed. With some luck, I'll be able to keep it in my garage for an extended period after this repair.

[speedtrapped]

wow....but you have gotten your $ worth with the car.......I would of sold you my used turbos.....GL Randy, god speed on the repairs

[Chung]

My car has also spent a lot of time in the shop but I think it will start to behave soon.

At least you have a fun little car to tide you over if you can get the keys from your daughter.

[MaxRS6]

Thanks Steve. I decided to go new on the turbos as the plan is to put another 100K on this bad boy if it will hold up. Also, gives my new indy mechanic a few more dollars into his pocket to help motivate him on my never ending project..;0

I still figure I'm doing pretty good with the $$$ cost/mile in spite of all my repairs. The vast majority of my repairs were covered by warranty/extended warranty until as of recent. Other repairs were actually covered under the pitiful 12k/12 month coverage on parts as I've had various issues blow within that short time (intercoolers for the 3rd time, leaks under the intake, etc.).

Thankfully, AoA has been great and has kept my faith in the Audi brand in spite of piss poor service provided by the Audi stealership (Parker Audi) in Little Rock. That very ugly story will be shared soon with my rs6.com friends. In short- don't let the Parker Audi monkeys anywhere near a turbo car- or for that matter any car.

[MaxRS6]

...At least you have a fun little car to tide you over if you can get the keys from your daughter.

LOL- Actually it (my car consistently going in for surgery) was one of the motivating reasons to pull the trigger.

[V8weight]

Sorry to hear Randy, but should be great with fresh turbo's. Isn't this your second set? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[MaxRS6]

^Yep- second set. This set is on my (or should I say my company's) dime. - Not too bad..:)

[Elevens]

Sorry to hear about the Turbo Failure (KO4's are usually pretty Reliable). Mine has been at the shop for about a Month now for a Trans Rebuild (517trans). While the engine was out, upon some advice I decided to have the Turbo's rebuilt also (ScrollProducts). Turbo's came back looking Brand New with all the Innards Replaced and Balanced. There was really nothing wrong with them, but with the engine out I figured an ounce of prevention is cheaper than a pound of cure. I still haven't got the car back, but when I do I will give my Impressions. Good luck on the New Turbo's...............

[MaxRS6]

^- That was a good call on your part to have them rebuilt while engine was out. I wish I thought of that about a year ago when my engine was out for a different repair issue. Oh well- it is what it is as my better half tells me. In the scope of things realizing there are a lot of people out there with big problems- I'm thankful my glass is 1/2 full..00

[Elevens]

Yeah Max, I'm just trying to get some of the Major issues of this 8 year old supercar out of the way. Because I tell you I plan on keeping it until it dies. Yes it has issues but the Damn thing is 8 years old. No car would be trouble free at this point in its life. And as I've said before, there is nothing I can think of that I would replace this car with. When this thing is running right its a Monster and a pleasure to drive, and brings me nothing but smiles from ear to ear.........................

[speedtrapped]

Curious what did scroll charge for the rebuilds?, if you dont mind me asking?

[Elevens]

Curious what did scroll charge for the rebuilds?, if you dont mind me asking?

It may vary, depending on the condition of the Turbo and what needs to be replaced. I had everything replaced on the Hot (exhaust side) for $1360.00 for both Turbo's including Return shipping. I am not certain but I believe a couple of factory Rebuilt or new Turbo's will be way in excess of $4000.00. My only question is Longevity. But Sean at ScrollProducts assures me that the wheels are spun to 160,000 rpm and checked for vibration and balanced accordingly. Also the Oil seals are pressure tested for leaks. Only time will tell how long they will last, but the same could be said for any Turbo I guess....

[MaxRS6]

Update- Tech found this painted metal piece jammed in the turbo blades on the exhaust side. Still trying to determine what this could be or the source. Sounds like it may not have done any damage. However; the obvious concern is if there are other pieces floating around. Vedddy strange...

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0909.jpg?t=1310425102
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0911.jpg?t=1310425124

[yokust]

Looks alot like part of the turbine blades.

I bet if you actually disassembled them you would see missing peices

[MaxRS6]

^- Thanks Yokust- I'll ask the tech to tear it down further to see if we can find the source.

They anticipate they will have it up and running in a couple of days. Waiting on the turbos and O2 sensors (opportune time). They are also continuing to inspect while the engine is out.

[yokust]

But be careful taking them apart, if you are buying genuine Audi parts there might be a core on them. And if it shows signs of someone being inside them they might accept the cores once they get sent back to Audi from the dealer

[TozoM8]

They look like carbon build up pieces from the valves.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/3729989363_071fc8c6e6_o.jpg

[V8weight]

They look like carbon build up pieces from the valves.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/3729989363_071fc8c6e6_o.jpg
Holy shit! I didn't even think of that....looks pretty plausible. Scary.

[ben916]

Holy shit! I didn't even think of that....looks pretty plausible. Scary.

MAF guide connector pieces that have melted due to heat... ;)

[yokust]

I highly doubt it would be carbon, carbon will not metal like weight. And carbon would get crushed in a turbo very fast.

Granted carbon chunks like that will leave horrible damage in the turbo it will not jam it.

[MaxRS6]

Holy shit! I didn't even think of that....looks pretty plausible. Scary.



They look like carbon build up pieces from the valves.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/3729989363_071fc8c6e6_o.jpg

Any suggestions? It is definitely a metal piece as I have it in hand..

About a year ago, we had a good look at the valves as they had it torn apart and they all looked relatively very clean (considering it had about 125K on the odometer) at that time..

I certainly appreciate everyone's input and time

[hahnmgh63]

I am anal about my fuel (only Chevron or Shell), and yes I do use Aces IV. I threaded my new toy really cool color monitor flexibley extension camera up the exhaust manifold (Turbos are still off) and looked at my exhaust ports and the back of the exhaust valves head an seats were real clean. Carbon black color but no buildup. I only looked at one exhaust valve on each bank but I would expect them all to look the same, plugs all look identically normal. I would imagine most modern engines run pretty clean but I know fuel can make a huge difference in clean burn. Most fuels you buy are 96~98 the same but that 2~4% difference of proprietary additives can make a world of difference.

[MaxRS6]

MAF guide connector pieces that have melted due to heat... ;)

Thanks Ben---LOL. My first thought was the techs had dropped something down the ol rabbit hole

[MaxRS6]

I am anal about my fuel (only Chevron or Shell), and yes I do use Aces IV. I threaded my new toy really cool color monitor flexibley extension camera up the exhaust manifold (Turbos are still off) and looked at my exhaust ports and the back of the exhaust valves head an seats were real clean. Carbon black color but no buildup. I only looked at one exhaust valve on each bank but I would expect them all to look the same, plugs all look identically normal. I would imagine most modern engines run pretty clean but I know fuel can make a huge difference in clean burn. Most fuels you buy are 96~98 the same but that 2~4% difference of proprietary additives can make a world of difference.

I utilize Shell 93 approximately 95% of the time, and add Aces a lot of the time (albeit not all the time).

[hahnmgh63]

Try a magnet on it and see if it has iron at least?

[MaxRS6]

Try a magnet on it and see if it has iron at least?

Magnet doesn't attract it as I just gave it a try..It does have some silver under it where it looks like the black portion is scratched. The black portion looks and feels more like a coat of paint than carbon from these untrained eyes. I tried to break off a small portion at the tip but it is vedy robust (evident by the turbo blades not crushing it as it was jammed in the blade).

[hahnmgh63]

Wouldn't be from the MAF if it was on the Turbine side. 1. Something made it through the engine (Might not be a bad idea to do a compression check, at least on that bank to confirm there is no exhaust vavle damage. 2. You looked at the valves a year ago? Were the exhaust manifolds off? If so, maybe something was dropped/left in a exhaust port or exhaust manifold then.
Is it real brittle or will it bend like aluminum?

[MaxRS6]

^ It certainly is not brittle, and is very sturdy. It doesn't bend with my hands and seems like it would take a lot of force to bend. I was also able to scratch up another piece of metal using the tip of this foreign object.

The Audi dealership said they did a compression test and it all came out good. I'll ask my current tech to do the same to double check..

Again, I appreciate everyone's input as I try to get this horse up off its' side..

[yokust]

Here is very simple solution

Hit it with hammer.

Carbon will crush, metal will deform

[MaxRS6]

Did the hammer thing and it deformed into almost flat..It definitely bends and doesn't crush.

[ben916]

What soft metal is used in the Cosworth 4.2 engine?

Might be worth it to use a bore-scope to look at your cylinder head - since the engine is out anyway...

[DHall1]

+1

Items could have been left in the intake during a prev repair. What was done to the car before the turbo went bad? It would not have taken long...

Could be turbine wheel but you should see damage even from the outside. Spinning at 20k it would look like a small war inside that turbo.



Wouldn't be from the MAF if it was on the Turbine side. 1. Something made it through the engine (Might not be a bad idea to do a compression check, at least on that bank to confirm there is no exhaust vavle damage. 2. You looked at the valves a year ago? Were the exhaust manifolds off? If so, maybe something was dropped/left in a exhaust port or exhaust manifold then.
Is it real brittle or will it bend like aluminum?

[MaxRS6]

^ Timing Belt service was done when I had the timing belt roller bolt break issue just prior to this issue.

It was about a week after they gave it back to me when the turbo died. I had not driven the car much after the TB job. Then on my first relatively long drive, is when it went dead. The audi dealership (Parker Audi/Little Rock) even gave it back to me a couple of times (with the dead turbo) stating it is was running well- when in fact it was still producing zero boost- the flipping idiots! I turned it around within a block of the dealership to tell them it was still not right. Here are a couple snipits of emails the Service Manager sent me as they worked on it:

When I first took it in for the turbo issue- they had it for a couple of days and I received this email from the service manager:

"We have your car back together. We first thought that the timing was off due to the codes and checked that and all was good. Found that the upper plenum cover was not sealing well and making it run lean. We need to look at replacing that part soon. Eric can explain what it is exactly. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
We got the spark plugs and fuel filter replaced but held off on the starter since Audi show that you have to remove the engine to replace but Eric and get it out by lowering the sub-frame to gain access. We didn’t feel we had the time to complete that this week. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
So with that said your vehicle is ready for pickup so you can drive it till Eric get back a week from Monday"

When I picked it up- it was definitely not right and I immediately gave it back to them.

Then after another 10 days of them tinkering, I receive the below email from the Service Manager:

"We put on the part I had ordered and test drove multiple times. It ran good every time and no codes set. Eric did get the starter on, that was fun. If you pock (sic) it, let me know how it does"

The techs had installed a pressure sensor as the Service Manager thought it was the issue. When I picked it up it was still producing zero boost and was very apparent the car was not running correctly. The Audi Service manager and the tech thought it was running normally. I immediately went to a sales manager and had him drive it. He also immediately knew/confirmed it wasn't anywhere near right. Therefore; the car was left with them to inspect further.

The turbo is all scratched up in the area we can see and is definitely toast.

[MaxRS6]

Update- Just returned from the shop. The valves are all in tact with some carbon on them. Exhaust manifold was off and we could see the valves directly. Tech says they are all look good. It still seems as if I dodged another bullet with this piece of shrapnel going through without any real damage to the engine. However; the unknown of where it came from (or if there are further pieces) is troublesome. It is definitely a black painted piece of metal. We can see all the turbo fan blades and they all look in tact.

Two new turbos arrived while I was there discussing. They expect to have it back together in a couple of days and we'll see how it goes...00

[ben916]

^ Timing Belt service was done when I had the timing belt roller bolt break issue just prior to this issue.

It was about a week after they gave it back to me when the turbo died. I had not driven the car much after the TB job. Then on my first relatively long drive, is when it went dead. The audi dealership (Parker Audi/Little Rock) even gave it back to me a couple of times (with the dead turbo) stating it is was running well- when in fact it was still producing zero boost- the flipping idiots! I turned it around within a block of the dealership to tell them it was still not right. Here are a couple snipits of emails the Service Manager sent me as they worked on it:

When I first took it in for the turbo issue- they had it for a couple of days and I received this email from the service manager:

"We have your car back together. We first thought that the timing was off due to the codes and checked that and all was good. Found that the upper plenum cover was not sealing well and making it run lean. We need to look at replacing that part soon. Eric can explain what it is exactly. <o>:p></o>:p>
<o>:p> </o>:p>
We got the spark plugs and fuel filter replaced but held off on the starter since Audi show that you have to remove the engine to replace but Eric and get it out by lowering the sub-frame to gain access. We didn’t feel we had the time to complete that this week. <o>:p></o>:p>
<o>:p> </o>:p>
So with that said your vehicle is ready for pickup so you can drive it till Eric get back a week from Monday"

When I picked it up- it was definitely not right and I immediately gave it back to them.

Then after another 10 days of them tinkering, I receive the below email from the Service Manager:

"We put on the part I had ordered and test drove multiple times. It ran good every time and no codes set. Eric did get the starter on, that was fun. If you pock (sic) it, let me know how it does"

The techs had installed a pressure sensor as the Service Manager thought it was the issue. When I picked it up it was still producing zero boost and was very apparent the car was not running correctly. The Audi Service manager and the tech thought it was running normally. I immediately went to a sales manager and had him drive it. He also immediately knew/confirmed it wasn't anywhere near right. Therefore; the car was left with them to inspect further.

The turbo is all scratched up in the area we can see and is definitely toast.

Good thing these guys aren't paid to THINK!!!! They are paid to WRENCH...

Once you pick it up, it is no longer THEIR problem - "Runs normal" for a 1973 Pinto...
Sounds like the Service Manager needs to go back to school or back to changing tires for a living...

[bilko1]

I had my compressions checked recently while changing the spark plugs, all cylinders were 165 - 170 psi. The engine has done 76,000 miles.

[MaxRS6]

Some pics for entertainment..

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0919.jpghttp://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0913.jpghttp://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0914.jpghttp://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0915.jpghttp://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0916.jpghttp://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0917.jpg
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/RS6%20Turbo/PIC_0918.jpg

[V8weight]

Shudder......

[V8weight]

Are you re-sealing the oil cooler again? I see the adapter is off.

[MaxRS6]

^uhhh- I don't know what the plan is with the oil cooler. Is there something I should discuss with the tech? I had thought about ordering the aluminum tube at this opportune time. However; Speedtrapped had issues with his so I was hesitant to go that route since it was just recently repaired.

[MaxRS6]

...
Sounds like the Service Manager needs to go back to school or back to changing tires for a living...

Agreed with that observation Ben. I have been discussing with AoA and have provided them documented emails of the correspondence and Parker's incompetent service manager and techs. I don't want to release too many details at this point as we are still in discussion.

On a side note, I have spent two separate afternoons with a picket sign in front of Parker Audi. I handed out pamphlets and had a very large sign stating "Bad Service!". I think I have their attention. I am going to be relentless in my pursuit to inform the general public of Parker's very poor service..

[MaxRS6]

A small vid...

<IFRAME height=349 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3adAjzqf-2g" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME> (file://<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3adAjzqf-2g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>)

[OrangeAlfa]

That is a big chunk of metal... It did not go through a cyl and not cause damage. Take a bore scope and look in each cyl. If the top of the piston and the top of the cyl head are in good shape.. your lucky... this leaves to possible places for it to come from. 1) Turbo fan or bearing or 2) exhaust valve guide. it does not look like valve guide material. Odds are in your favor its from inside the turbo itself on the exhaust side. The fact that your motor ran ok enough for people to think it might be normal also tells me the integrity of the engine is probably sound also. You get a chunk of metal that size float around in cyl for even a few sec it makes one HELL of a racket. You would have heard in in the next county.

[MaxRS6]

Orange..Thank you for the input and your time! I pray for your (and all our men & women) safe return and thank you for your efforts abroad on our country's behalf!

One minute the car was running fine as I had passed a couple of cars. Then I went to pass another and the boost was just gone. Nada a peep of a strange sound or anything out of the ordinary with the exception of no boost/power. With luck- it is just a part of the turbo's guts..The tech stated he couldn't break down the turbo any further as it is being sent back for the core. I've asked them to try to take a look with the bore scope.

[OrangeAlfa]

Thank you for the kind words sir.

Just a side note.. in your pics.. your C.V shafts are hanging with the weight of the steering knuckle and rotor pulling on that inner joint pretty good. I have seen it on other cars where it can pull the inner joint out of the tulip and the bearings fall apart inside the boot... might want to make sure they don't come apart... Just an observation.

[ben916]

That is a big chunk of metal... It did not go through a cyl and not cause damage. Take a bore scope and look in each cyl. If the top of the piston and the top of the cyl head are in good shape.. your lucky... this leaves to possible places for it to come from. 1) Turbo fan or bearing or 2) exhaust valve guide. it does not look like valve guide material. Odds are in your favor its from inside the turbo itself on the exhaust side. The fact that your motor ran ok enough for people to think it might be normal also tells me the integrity of the engine is probably sound also. You get a chunk of metal that size float around in cyl for even a few sec it makes one HELL of a racket. You would have heard in in the next county.

My gamble for Famous Dave's "WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER" is this:
1. Parker's tech dropped so $hit down the rabbit hole,
2. thought oh well, not my problem, (there he goes again thinking...)
3. started "CrAzY" up, after the TB change, EDIT: heard some $hit clanging around
4. ran it hard to get unmentioned foreign debris out of inlet turbo with enough force to push it past the throttle body and down into a cylinder and out to the exhaust side of the turbo
5. he was almost lucky enough for it to work

Of course it would have been the tech's a$$ and the service manager's also, if they nuked THAT motor....
Denial isn't a river in Egypt

As with my original statement - bore scope that bad boy - Passenger side? 25% chance.... rolling dice now... 2nd cylinder from the front...

[MaxRS6]

The car's colonoscopy is scheduled tomorrow morning. Hopefully it will be a healthy report. Thx for the input friends!

[4everRS]

I don't think there is any way you could drop a piece down the turbo inlet and turbine, have it go through the charge pipe, through an intercooler, up the y-pipe, through the throttle body, intake valve, exhaust valve, then get stuck in the exhaust turbine.

I call part of the turbo assembly. I had thought about the top of a piston above the top ring, but that wouldn't be so big.

[DHall1]

Oh boy

This does not sound good. What do they say about not sending your steak back to the chef.

Sounds like a massive coverup is taking place and Max needs a new engine on Parker Audi.





^ Timing Belt service was done when I had the timing belt roller bolt break issue just prior to this issue.

It was about a week after they gave it back to me when the turbo died. I had not driven the car much after the TB job. Then on my first relatively long drive, is when it went dead. The audi dealership (Parker Audi/Little Rock) even gave it back to me a couple of times (with the dead turbo) stating it is was running well- when in fact it was still producing zero boost- the flipping idiots! I turned it around within a block of the dealership to tell them it was still not right. Here are a couple snipits of emails the Service Manager sent me as they worked on it:

When I first took it in for the turbo issue- they had it for a couple of days and I received this email from the service manager:

"We have your car back together. We first thought that the timing was off due to the codes and checked that and all was good. Found that the upper plenum cover was not sealing well and making it run lean. We need to look at replacing that part soon. Eric can explain what it is exactly. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
We got the spark plugs and fuel filter replaced but held off on the starter since Audi show that you have to remove the engine to replace but Eric and get it out by lowering the sub-frame to gain access. We didn’t feel we had the time to complete that this week. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
So with that said your vehicle is ready for pickup so you can drive it till Eric get back a week from Monday"

When I picked it up- it was definitely not right and I immediately gave it back to them.

Then after another 10 days of them tinkering, I receive the below email from the Service Manager:

"We put on the part I had ordered and test drove multiple times. It ran good every time and no codes set. Eric did get the starter on, that was fun. If you pock (sic) it, let me know how it does"

The techs had installed a pressure sensor as the Service Manager thought it was the issue. When I picked it up it was still producing zero boost and was very apparent the car was not running correctly. The Audi Service manager and the tech thought it was running normally. I immediately went to a sales manager and had him drive it. He also immediately knew/confirmed it wasn't anywhere near right. Therefore; the car was left with them to inspect further.

The turbo is all scratched up in the area we can see and is definitely toast.

[hahnmgh63]

Yea, I bought a used Porsche 944 Turbo 10+ years ago which ran ok, no smoke, used no oil, but didn't seem to make the power that it should. I found that some dummy dropped something down the intake and it didn't destroy the Compressor wheels but tore them up a bit so they weren't making close to normal boost (KKK K-26/8). I was shocked that none of the wheels broke, tough suckers. I flushed the intercooler and lots of fine metallic particles came out so I would say you couldn't expect anything sizeable to make it through an intercooler so it had to be dropped in later or if no signs in the cylinder or good compression numbers on all cylinder on that bank then it got in the exhaust manifold when they had it off. In the case of my 944 Turbo, after dropping in a Garrett ball bearing turbo and running it at high boost for a year or more I had a piston momentarily seize and causing the rod to break and ruin the block (the flailing end of the beautiful Porsche Forged rod almost cut the block in half). Damage from the fine particles getting through the intercooler or not? I would take a close look with the borescope as I mentioned yesterday. The shop better have one of the nice video ones like I do that you can make a recording of for your personal inspection, or they better borrow one from somebody, and they better show you all of the compression numbers, of both banks because you never know what exactly happened here.

[ben916]

I don't think there is any way you could drop a piece down the turbo inlet and turbine, have it go through the charge pipe, through an intercooler, up the y-pipe, through the throttle body, intake valve, exhaust valve, then get stuck in the exhaust turbine.

I call part of the turbo assembly. I had thought about the top of a piston above the top ring, but that wouldn't be so big.

yep, right there. Forgot about the junk OEM leaking inefficient intercooler

slightly on topic, there was a thread on AZ where a bolt "mysteriously" found it's way into the combustion chamber. You could clearly see the impressions of the bolt vs piston vs valves - it was NOT pretty... it was actually kind of painful to see. Car was an A4

[s42ski]

one other thought - exhaust manifold gasket or turbo to exhaust gasket - I have not had the beast apart, but many times they are metal based - a soft metal so they seal. This sounds like a real horror story - would get AoA involved and maybe even lawyer up in case it gets nasty....

[4everRS]

one other thought - exhaust manifold gasket or turbo to exhaust gasket - I have not had the beast apart, but many times they are metal based - a soft metal so they seal. This sounds like a real horror story - would get AoA involved and maybe even lawyer up in case it gets nasty.... Not a bad thought. Although, when we removed my turbo from the header, there was no gasket. I thought it was weird.

[DHall1]

Nothing that large could have been dropped down the turbo inlet. Most likely was dropped in the intake. Hard to determine what or how but the inspection of each cylinder should tell the story. It may be time for the vids of each cylinder to document the evidence. If signs are evident in a cylinder then things will get quite ugly.

Max...you ran the picket lines? Wow I want to see pictures.


I don't think there is any way you could drop a piece down the turbo inlet and turbine, have it go through the charge pipe, through an intercooler, up the y-pipe, through the throttle body, intake valve, exhaust valve, then get stuck in the exhaust turbine.

I call part of the turbo assembly. I had thought about the top of a piston above the top ring, but that wouldn't be so big.

[DHall1]

What exactly were the service points in question? The fact that they could not diagnose the no boost condition?


Agreed with that observation Ben. I have been discussing with AoA and have provided them documented emails of the correspondence and Parker's incompetent service manager and techs. I don't want to release too many details at this point as we are still in discussion.

On a side note, I have spent two separate afternoons with a picket sign in front of Parker Audi. I handed out pamphlets and had a very large sign stating "Bad Service!". I think I have their attention. I am going to be relentless in my pursuit to inform the general public of Parker's very poor service..

[OrangeAlfa]

Not unusual at all for there to be no exhaust gasket between the head and manifold. They do this so the aluminum cyl head helps to cool the cast iron exhaust manifold. Or what ever metal it is. The exhaust manifold on a Turbo engine run even hotter than N/A engines. With a gasket, you isolate the exhaust manifold and it runs much hotter and is more prone to cracking and breakage do to the difference in thermal expansion. Some cars run a gasket. Some don't.

I agree also... I would want to look with the bore scope myself or have a video of it... but would rather be there. A dealer having to eat a RS6 crate engine is a big chunk off the bottom line.. I still think its related to your sudden loss of power... (stuck turbo due to debris) and its all on your exhaust turbo side. But its always nice to SEE the failure for peace of mind. If anything went through a cyl... there will be PLENTY of evidence to see. Also.... If the cyl are not clean... then you will need to clean, or better, replace your intercoolers due to contamination from what ever died/got dropped..

[MaxRS6]

...Max...you ran the picket lines? Wow I want to see pictures.

Yes I did (on two separate afternoons) and it was quite entertaining as they are located in a prime location. The dealership owner and general manager came out and spoke to me for a few minutes trying to justify their repair service to no avail. The last thing they said was "I really wish you wouldn't do this" and I replied "I really wish you all had repaired my car professionally" as I turned around to continue my picket. I have handed out pamphlets, and received a lot of thumbs ups and honks. Several persons stopped to tell me they had been treated the same way and applauded my efforts.

The dealership personnel took some pictures as I waved at them with some of the people that came up to me with questions. I don't think they'll provide their pics to me though-LOL. Next time I am there, I'll shoot a couple pics.


What exactly were the service points in question? The fact that they could not diagnose the no boost condition?

Yes- One of the main items was they could not diagnose the no boost condition (over a 6 week time-frame) and they returned the car to me several times in that condition to be driven as if it was running normally- and the Service Manager's general incompetence and broken promises. I have provided AoA a 32 page letter (with the documented emails) that provide the story. Fortunately, most of my communications with the service manager were via emails as I like to have documentation (just in case).

[MaxRS6]

... then you will need to clean, or better, replace your intercoolers due to contamination from what ever died/got dropped..

The oil was changed and the intercoolers were actually replaced as the very last thing the dealership did as they tried to correct the issue. After they replaced the intercoolers- they declared the passenger side turbo was shot. The intercoolers were covered under warranty as they had been replaced about 6 months ago prior to this current incident. Isn't it interesting they replaced the intercoolers under warranty during this debacle? Only a few weeks prior to this, the intercoolers were just fine with no leakage.

[marklar182]

My gamble for Famous Dave's "WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER" is this:
1. Parker's tech dropped so $hit down the rabbit hole,
2. thought oh well, not my problem, (there he goes again thinking...)
3. started "CrAzY" up, after the TB change, EDIT: heard some $hit clanging around
4. ran it hard to get unmentioned foreign debris out of inlet turbo with enough force to push it past the throttle body and down into a cylinder and out to the exhaust side of the turbo
5. he was almost lucky enough for it to work

#4 would never happen. it would never make it passed the inlet of the intercooler.

The debris came from within the motor, or more likely as has been said, from the turbo.

[DHall1]

Randy,

I forgot about this fact. Why exactly did they replace the intercoolers? And how after the intercooler replacement did they come to the conclusion that the pass side turbo was shot?

This could have been the rabbit hole debris situation. What if the debris got dropped in the rabbit hole only to damage the intercooler but some actually got past the intercooler then into the intake.




The oil was changed and the intercoolers were actually replaced as the very last thing the dealership did as they tried to correct the issue. After they replaced the intercoolers- they declared the passenger side turbo was shot. The intercoolers were covered under warranty as they had been replaced about 6 months ago prior to this current incident. Isn't it interesting they replaced the intercoolers under warranty during this debacle? Only a few weeks prior to this, the intercoolers were just fine with no leakage.

[OrangeAlfa]

Audi sells enough Turbo Charged cars that EVERY Audi dealer in the world should have a simple vacuum/boost gauge for testing this. its a simple test. ANY AUDI dealer has access to the manuals and can look up what spec and what procedure to mechanically check it. They could have easily done this while you waited and watched. I agree that the level of incompetence is fairly high with these guys.

[MaxRS6]

Dhall... after multiple weeks..they finally did a smoke test and said they were leaking. After they replaced the coolers is when they merely proclaimed it was now the passenger side turbo causing the lack of power. Feel fee to call me on my cell. I am at the shop and about to talk to the tech about the scope.

[DHall1]

Yep, they dropped debris in the rabbit hole turbo inlets.

When they changed the intercoolers....they could see the damage.

They know what happened.

Only a small chance that the turbo self destructed at the same time you got the car back from timing belt job. The chances and odds are 1 in a million.

Inspect both intake and exhaust sides of that turbo. And do not send the turbo back for core. Its your only proof.


Dhall... after multiple weeks..they finally did a smoke test and said they were leaking. After they replaced the coolers is when they merely proclaimed it was now the passenger side turbo causing the lack of power. Feel fee to call me on my cell. I am at the shop and about to talk to the tech about the scope.