not a surprise comparison - C5 RS6 vs E39 M5?

[kismetcapitan]

so, while in the market for an RS6, I inevitably come across it's immediate rival - the E39 M5.

Anyways, I thought at least a few people here must have weighed that decision - the cars are fairly similarly priced, and while the Audi packs more power, it's heavy, and the engine sticks out in front of the front axles. Investing into the suspension and going to bigger, stickier tires will be an immediate cost for an RS6 to try to tame the understeer for me. AWD is good - preferred in fact, but it's an automatic, and I've never owned an automatic car in my life.

BMWs have always been more for purists, and I'd say I'm that sort of person. Yet the RS6 is a damned quick car and reflashing the ECU yields big power gains straight off the bat. And since it's turbocharged, there's more than can be done. The S62 engine in the BMW isn't so easily modified without going to a very, very expensive supercharger setup. And I am an admitted power junkie.

Since you're here, you either never considered the M5, or thought about it and chose Audi. I'd like to solicit your opinions as to why. Thanks!

[Brav]

I had this very contemplation. I considered myself primarily a BMW fan. Previously, I had owned an E46 M3 coupe SMG, and an M6 coupe. Before the M3 was a B5 A4 (my first new car :) ) and later a B5 S4 stage 3. In all honestly, I can't really say what swayed me to the RS6. I was looking at both at same time.

I like and appreciate what both are, and its completely different. RS6 was more rare, which was one factor. I think it looks more modern as well. People always tell me they think its an 08 or newer model. I happen to come upon a great deal on the exact car I wanted, so I pulled the trigger. Had a deal come by on a nice M5, could have been different to be honest. My guess is the M5 could be more reliable on average. definitely easier to service. But I enjoy the exclusivity and timeless beauty of the RS. Do I miss the throaty growl of a NA V8 and a manual? sure.. but I would say 80 to 90% of the time the RS is a better suited daily driver. Which is what I use it for.

[Carbonman]

First things first, neither of these cars will ever be a sports car. They are high performance sedans and are suited for uses appropriate with that title. That said, they're are loads of fun.

Weights: Curb weight for the M5 is 3,957 and 4,024 for the Audi. 77 lbs isn't a huge difference in my book.

Power: Obviously the Audi wins on power to weight. Kills the M5 once you chip it.

Handling: Depends on what you're doing with it. If you're the Stig on Top Gear and are throwing the car around a track, the M5 will be the ultimate driving machine. The Audi's AWD, no matter the bias, will handicap it here a bit. For everyday use, Audi wins, especially with the security that AWD offers.

Maintenance: Both have issues. Oil consumption issues with the M5 motor and tranny problems with the RS6. Audi will win with cost here - it's a more expensive car to maintain. Neither are cheap.

Torque - Audi, next topic.

Tuning - Audi, next topic.

Interiors - Except for lack of a nav system (I mean a real nav system), the Audi interior is better in most aspects. Stereo - blows the crap BMW unit away. The only exception are the BMW sport seats - very comfy and better than the RS6 (why can't we have the Recaros like the EU gets)!

Exterior - I like both, but I'm and Audi guy and I like the styling better. BMW has killer wheels on the M5 - I love of the offset sizing between front and rear.

Most important - at the end of the day you have to decide if you want to be a BMW driver :lovl: or an Audi driver:race:

[marklar182]

BMW (even M-series) interiors always seem cheap and "plastic'y" to me. The leather seems fake, the dash material is just a notch above GM. That is the killer for me when it comes to BMW. Audi has the interior materials down to a science!

[vitalian]

Call me shallow, but I want a car that that turns heads because it not only kicks butt with power, but because it looks really, really good as well. In the looks department, in my opinion, there is no comparison. The RS6 is just a flat-out beautiful car.

[ben916]

BMW (even M-series) interiors always seem cheap and "plastic'y" to me. The leather seems fake, the dash material is just a notch above GM. That is the killer for me when it comes to BMW. Audi has the interior materials down to a science!

I cannot tell a lie:
Since my initials are BMW...
I cut my teeth seeing the 3 series and CSI etc driving around Seattle/Bellevue/Kirkland.
Then my bud's father gave him a 635csi euro version - that engine note and exhaust was incredible and crisp!
Ultimate Driving Machine - for a while - yeah!
Joy - ???wth??? - booo!

The lurking on RS6.com for 3+ years got old and the "sewing machine" was just like every other cookie cutter Honda out there. (is that too uppity???) and I got to drive the Special Sauce BEFORE it was Special... hooks set in deep - for all you fishermen and women. The executive branch was applying pressure to Congress to free up some funds...
So with that stated, my wife wanted to explore the possibility of purchasing a NEW BMW 5 series (no M5 - too expensive) with a warranty and blah blah blah... since she was concerned over the reliability of an Audi and then to top that off, the age of said RS6. (that stigma of Audi 200 or 100 are still fresh in American's minds)
So I "went along for the ride" so to say:
Sat in a 535, meh - not impressed - seemed rather plain and lackluster. Driving it was even more boring, to me and the fam, that it just sitting on the lot.
Sat in a 550, ok that is better but still not quite there. Sticker shock was enough to keep her moving away from the 550.
Sales guy wouldn't let me sit in the M5 (not to say that I would have wanted to but I wasn't given the option...) - maybe he saw the sticker shock on the 550...

I can't say I was disappointed leaving the BMW lot... (¿Joy?)
I was ecstatic when I drove from Beverly Hills to San Diego on a raining night thru LA via the 405 to the 5, I was pinching myself the next morning.
She still doesn't understand NOR will she drive it...

EDIT: I totally forgot to mention that the glove box in the brand new 550 fell off when I sat in the car and the sales guy was like "yeah we gotta get that fixed, happened in transit". WTF?!?!?

[Jimmy]

Here's my 2 worthless beans on the subject...

M5s...a whole lot of them were sold. Early cars are not so good in the long run...but hands down the E39 is far better looking than a newer model M5 (just IMO) I do agree that their interiors are cheap looking compared to MBs or more recent Audis. I certainly wouldn't call them the 'ultimate driving machine' but the M-cars sure deserve high marks.

RS6s...not many were sold/built and exclusive to 03' only in the US...I like that. Tranny/TC is a sore point if not already taken care of by POs...as is the t-belt change intervals... and that darn DRC ! Paddle shift is nicer than a manual in such a big/heavy car...especially nice with a much needed tranny chip.

I'm a Mercedes guy, I still am and was/still am considering a CLS/E55 or 63...but I figured I had to jump on the RS6 when it was just sitting on the lot for so long on consignment; and lucky for me the owner wanted out of it bad so I stole it for very low 20s (bye-bye Porsche Cab) ....the 3 or 4 RS6s that past thru the dealership previously left me regretting not trying one out. Now I'm VERY happy to have a nice one in my stable. And with the winter tires the owner threw in...I can drive it year round. Its a friggen' 500+hp snowmobile ! Extra points for the Rs6 if you live and drive within the snowbelt.

Its really apples vs oranges...but I prefer apples. The orange may float your boat just as well and are fine cars in their own right.

[Elevens]

Come on guys our cars are 8 years old, and I still can't think of a car that I would like to replace it with. Not even the C6 RS6. BMW's are fantastic cars, but styling wise can't compare. Not event the M5. The C5 RS6 styling is Timeless. I get nothing but looks, stares and Compliments from BMW and Mercedes drivers. Yes It has a few a weak points, but correct them and you've got an affordable super car. Completely Rebuild the Transmission, Replace the DRC with Coilovers,a set of Catless or high flow catted downpipes into a low restriction exhaust system, a good Tune and your good to go. That's what I did to mine and believe me, I couldn't be any happier. BMW M series and Mercedes AMG series are great cars no doubt, but our C5's with a few fixes and mods are very comparable at a fraction of the cost. And look better to boot. Just the way I see things........................

[speedtrapped]

^^^ what he said.....i luv this car, it has a timeless beauty, and she can be made to be super fast. I had a monster with the CL65 amg, and even flashed it...it had gobs of torque, the wheels always spun, but it left me flat, it had no soul and handle like it had marshmellows for suspension....sorry MB guys, i was bored.....RS6, it grunts and then when rhe tUrbos spool, teh car explodes with torque, add the tidbits like Elevens others and myself, and you can kill many cars on the road currently.

[Stephencl]

Wow, I can play on this one for sure. I have owned them both. I took Euro delivery of my 2000 M5 in May of 2000. It was only my second brand new car. Ironically, my best friend had a new then A6 4.2. I will post a photo if I can find it readily.

So back the comparisons. I loved my E39 M5. I did NOT have the engine oil consumption issue while I owned it. As mentioned, the stereo was crap, but the seats were exceptional. In fact they rank 4th all time behind my S8 sports seats, my E34 Euro M5 seats and my Euro M8 (euro version of the 850csi) seats. Factory body roll was actually worse than a stock RS6 with working DRC. In fact when I first got my RS6, I loved the suspension.

From a standstill, the RS6 eats the M5 for breakfast. Part of this is the wheel spin with the M5. It was a little tough to hook up if you were really getting on it. I was NEVER a fan of the clutch, or the gear throw in the M5. These were both items that changed over the production run.

Brakes.... RS6. SO easy. Especially against the US version of the M5 brakes. I had mine changed to the Euro rotors in Germany before I shipped the car back.

The RS6 feels more special inside, but the full leather version of the M5 was really nice. Leather dash, leather headliner etc...it was really special too. But the swtichgear made it feel like any other 5 series.

The RS6 has a better exhaust note. Not sure why, since displacement is less, plus the turbochargers, but for some reason the crackling backfire of the rs6 is really nice.

I guess in the end, I love both cars. If I could have the seats out of the BMW in the RS6, then it would really be a no brainer.



Stephen

[Chung]

I also debated this as well (including the E60 M5 and E55/E63 Mercedes).
In the end I wanted AWD (for no particular reason) and Turbos. Call me crazy but Turbo lag can be one of the most enjoyable experiences in my opinion.

Rarity also would have played into it had I thought about it. There are a ton of M5s around me.

This is only my third car so I have limited experience. I could see myself buying a M5 down the road but I don't see myself selling my RS6.


It might be interesting to post this on an M5 forum and see what they have to say.

[Erik]

When this forum started we actually borrowed an RS6 and a M5 and did some testing.

Search and you will find.

[JCviggen]

IMO it comes down to whether or not you want AWD or find it useful. If you live in a place where the sun shines every day I think you'd be happy with an M5. There's slightly less that can go wrong with them, they sound brilliant as well and they are a bit more lively to drive than the RS6. In terms of performance, a well running E39 M5 will be in between a stock and a mapped RS6. Not a whole lot of difference. Unless you do 0-35mph sprints with it then the mapped RS6 might "kill" it. At very high speeds the M will in fact hold its own even against a mapped 6.
If your weather isn't as pleasant all of the time you might enjoy Quattro quite a bit however. And I would say interior wise the Audi edges it as well.

[ben916]

IMO it comes down to whether or not you want AWD or find it useful. If you live in a place where the sun shines every day I think you'd be happy with an M5. There's slightly less that can go wrong with them, they sound brilliant as well and they are a bit more lively to drive than the RS6. In terms of performance, a well running E39 M5 will be in between a stock and a mapped RS6. Not a whole lot of difference. Unless you do 0-35mph sprints with it then the mapped RS6 might "kill" it. At very high speeds the M will in fact hold its own even against a mapped 6.
If your weather isn't as pleasant all of the time you might enjoy Quattro quite a bit however. And I would say interior wise the Audi edges it as well.

Ambient temp here is roughly 70-72 degrees year round...
With that stated, we will not have rain for months and when it does rain the roads are slippery - not due to the rain but due to the oil.
Also, the density of the rain is very thick so lots of water on the roads. This is quite contrary to where I learned to drive - Seattle - rains all the time, not quite as dense of a rain.

Ok, blah blah blah... Not to say that AWD will save you in every situation BUT a RWD in this sunny situation turned rainy - might as well be driving on slicks... might be fun for a while but then you don't know what the hell the a$$hole next to you is doing.

[Brav]

I admit I do miss getting tail-happy in a RWD car. I loved my M6 for 2 reasons - LOUD awesome exhaust note (aftermarket) and being able to slide around turns. However, can't launch for sh*t. A friend recently came over with an E39 M5 with headers/exhaust.. destroys the exhaust note of RS6. RS sounds good, but doesn't make my hair raise at WOT near readline like many other cars I have owned. Honestly, its my only real complaint. I like my women quiet and my cars loud.

But to reiterate.. I love the RS6.

[vitalian]

I like my women quiet and my cars loud.

Okay, I'll ignore the remark about your women, but I have to agree about the cars.;) I wish I had some spare change to put the Sound Enhancing Exhaust on my RS6.

[ben916]

Getting tail-happy is fun, don't get me wrong...


Okay, I'll ignore the remark about your women, but I have to agree about the cars.;) I wish I had some spare change to put the Sound Enhancing Exhaust on my RS6.


LMAO!!!!
I guess the So Cal-ers need to get together with Hy Octane to hear the straight pipes he has...
But then if you have a super loud exhaust, the sleeper effect goes away...

[JSRS6]

But then if you have a super loud exhaust, the sleeper effect goes away...

I'm ok with that. :hihi:

[Brav]

LOL sorry Vital! I would love to hear someone's open exhaust. I have SE exhaust with no resonators.. sounds good at low RPM but still not loud enough. From what I understand, the SE exhaust is pretty much as loud as other aftermarket exhausts. Both are straight through?

Still would be fun to rev it up and create a ruckus and have everyone looking around for the "hot-rod."

[Chung]

I really dislike loud exhausts but I admit I love my resonated Miltek. When I bought the car I thought I would hate the noise but now I end up rolling down the window. The non-resonated version would probably be to loud for me.

[Elevens]

Catless straight to the Big mouth Millteks. Nothing sounds sweeter. Some systems are too loud. This setup is absolutely perfect. Sounds the way a high performance luxury sedan should........


http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/vintron/P1010513.jpg

[kismetcapitan]

Catless straight to the Big mouth Millteks. Nothing sounds sweeter. Some systems are too loud. This setup is absolutely perfect. Sounds the way a high performance luxury sedan should........


http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/vintron/P1010513.jpg

so absolutely just straight pipes off the turbos all the way to the end mufflers? any drone on the highway? can you get backfiring on overrun, or spit flames on gearshifts? (call me immature, but I love those sounds!)

I love your car; the wheels are perfect, I think I'm going to get that color (with a white interior), and if you don't mind, just...get the same mods you've got. It has what I think are the right mods for a tastefully done RS6!

[Brav]

Of course, those wheels are better flat black :D

[Elevens]

so absolutely just straight pipes off the turbos all the way to the end mufflers? any drone on the highway? can you get backfiring on overrun, or spit flames on gearshifts? (call me immature, but I love those sounds!)

I love your car; the wheels are perfect, I think I'm going to get that color (with a white interior), and if you don't mind, just...get the same mods you've got. It has what I think are the right mods for a tastefully done RS6!



It depends on what you call drone. No drone as far as I am concerned. At about 80mph there is a sweet note, not overly obtrusive just a nice rumble. You can listen to the radio at low volume with no issues. I can't vouch that all exhaust systems will sound that way. I have Milltek Catless Downpipes matched to a Milltek full Non-Resonated Exhaust system. Made for each other. Under WOT it Roars, otherwise it just plain sounds nice. No issues with Backfiring or Flames. the car is way to mature for that. The only issue with going Catless is the smell of Raw fuel upon startup. Smells like a real Race Car at that moment but that soon goes away. All of the Mods I have chosen have been tried and proven by Cornishmoocher over in the UK. Who used to be one of the Top RS6 guys over there, until he sold his. You can check some of his 200mph and 0-60 runs on YouTube. His RS was no Joke, the real deal. The only thing I haven't done yet it to replace the Intercoolers, but they don't appear to be leaking at the moment so that can wait. Still, Research the Forums further there are many members around here with a lot more knowledge than myself who can set you straight with setting up your Future RS......................................

[kismetcapitan]

Well, I'm satisfied! To me, drone is a deep buzzing sound at highway cruise that makes talking to passengers nearly impossible. I haven't run cats on my cars or bikes in quite some time so I'm familiar with the "I love the smell of petrol in the morning..." startup :-)

[Elevens]

Of course, those wheels are better flat black :D


Don't know If I'm going Black Brav, but I definitely will be going dark. Probably a dark semi gloss Titan or Titanium grey. I'm sure you've seen My Photoshop Rendition of the color on the car. It doesn't look to bad to me...................

[kismetcapitan]

I'm not so sure dark wheels does it...here's a pic of my Skyline GT-R; matte black wrap with black OZ Ultraleggeras:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/tobereeno/IMG_1186.jpg

Seemed like a good idea at the time, but I now wish I'd have gone with a matte silver. I may or may not wrap the RS6 I buy in the States, but I do prefer a darker color (black or grey), and will go for silver wheels, which I think will go nicely with the side mirrors.

[DHall1]

E39 a rival?

Have you driven both cars?

Where do these tales about pushing nose heavy RS6s come from? Geez

Drive both cars and buy the one that moves you. Love the R32 and baised on that car you should buy the RS6. No question


so, while in the market for an RS6, I inevitably come across it's immediate rival - the E39 M5.

Anyways, I thought at least a few people here must have weighed that decision - the cars are fairly similarly priced, and while the Audi packs more power, it's heavy, and the engine sticks out in front of the front axles. Investing into the suspension and going to bigger, stickier tires will be an immediate cost for an RS6 to try to tame the understeer for me. AWD is good - preferred in fact, but it's an automatic, and I've never owned an automatic car in my life.

BMWs have always been more for purists, and I'd say I'm that sort of person. Yet the RS6 is a damned quick car and reflashing the ECU yields big power gains straight off the bat. And since it's turbocharged, there's more than can be done. The S62 engine in the BMW isn't so easily modified without going to a very, very expensive supercharger setup. And I am an admitted power junkie.

Since you're here, you either never considered the M5, or thought about it and chose Audi. I'd like to solicit your opinions as to why. Thanks!

[Jimmy Joe]

The Beast, to me, has the best of everything. I don´t plan on selling it. Ever

[skribe]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/tobereeno/IMG_1186.jpg

Oh my. That is nice. :race:

There's no comparison between the RS and the M5. Don't even think about it.