EBC Redstuff vs OEM Rotors..

[Hy Octane]

Car is in again for a warped tranny pan and leak.. 3rd time lucky. instead of another gasket and flush they are replacing the warped pan that came with the rebuilt ZF..
However, a curious thing.. I asked my SA to check the brake wear.. I had new rotors and EBC's put on 15k miles ago and he reports that the pads still have 90% but the rotors are starting to show hotspots.. meaning they are wearing much faster than with the oem pads..
This isnt a shock since the EBC's are much harder compound, but I was curious as to if anyone else has seen this as well?

[V8weight]

This is happening because the EBC compound isn't hard enough, thus the pads are melting down and transferring too much material to the rotor. I've recently become a Hawk distributor, and can sell Hawk pads for about the same price as the EBC's. I just received some samples yesterday to test out in my car, stay tuned for impressions and pricing.

[JSRS6]

This is happening because the EBC compound isn't hard enough, thus the pads are melting down and transferring too much material to the rotor. I've recently become a Hawk distributor, and can sell Hawk pads for about the same price as the EBC's. I just received some samples yesterday to test out in my car, stay tuned for impressions and pricing.

Standing by...

[as350]

'nother stand by here....

[ben916]

Red 5 standing by...

[Jimmy]

Really? The EBC Red compound isn't hard enough?

Would seem to me they are plenty hard if after 15K miles there is 90% of the pad left....

[bmlee007]

I just installed Reds with new OEM rotors, but it will probably be 2-3 years 'til I see 15K miles. However, I'll keep this thread in mind for when the time comes.

[skribe]

I just installed Reds with new OEM rotors, but it will probably be 2-3 years 'til I see 15K miles. However, I'll keep this thread in mind for when the time comes.

I just put my brake pads in a time capsule. We'll see how the dung beetles and atmospheric nitric oxides have affected them in 2112.

Pat, can I get that deal yesterday? I know I like Hawk pads a lot from my superbike days. Standing by for dealio in my PM box.

[Brav]

I have hot spots on my fronts, even after resurfacing (JHM Rotors..) rears seem ok. Still trying to source high speed vibration issue. Could be pad transfer problem, not sure.

[hahnmgh63]

I got almost 30K out of a set of EBC Reds and the rotors had about 5K on them when I put the Reds in. I do have the Phaeton brake cooling ducts though and after a hard run I never stop the car without trying to drive easily for a few miles without touching the brakes so the pads don't come to rest on hot rotors. I'm using the Yellow's now and they do stop better than the Reds, have a higher temp tolerance, but do occaisonally throw a squeak out there when coming to a stop (not fully broken in yet) and they do dust a little more than the Reds but not as bad as OEM. I did have good luck with Hawk's on my old S6 although the HPS's squeaked a little too.

[Holiday]

Car is in again for a warped tranny pan and leak.. 3rd time lucky. instead of another gasket and flush they are replacing the warped pan that came with the rebuilt ZF..
However, a curious thing.. I asked my SA to check the brake wear.. I had new rotors and EBC's put on 15k miles ago and he reports that the pads still have 90% but the rotors are starting to show hotspots.. meaning they are wearing much faster than with the oem pads..
This isnt a shock since the EBC's are much harder compound, but I was curious as to if anyone else has seen this as well?

Same here. Brand new rotors and EBC Reds 17k miles ago and under normal street driving, the rotors have become warped. Getting a decent amount of vibration with light braking. The EBC pads seem to be of a harder compound than OEM which explains both the elevated rotor wear, and the reduction in brake dust from stock. Like they say, nothin's free. Even so, still won't buy those OEM pads again!

[JSRS6]

Hmmmm, might have to go turn mine next week...

[ben916]

hmmm....
Maybe having to deal with the 600 miles of squealing Frozen OEM rotors could possibly be worth it...

[JSRS6]

Yeah yeah. I said I'd get the next set done. Sheesh! :lovl:

[hahnmgh63]

Remember guys, EBC recommends easy driving for the first 150~200 miles before doing a more aggessive break-in procedure. From the sounds of what some people have posted about their break-in on the list, they have been doing an aggressive break-in right off the bat rather than letting them seat a little first and get that EBC break-in coating worn off normally and without a lot of heat.

[ben916]

...than letting them seat a little first and get that EBC break-in coating worn off normally and without a lot of heat.

I did that - check
Then about 75-100 miles later, they were squealing something FIERCE!!! :)

[nistah]

OK someone please help me understand. EBC red pads are harder material than OEM pads, last longer than oem pads but degrade the( expensive) rotors faster than oem pads. So even if the ebc reds are stronger and last longer than oem pads , what is benefit of repalcing OEM w/ ebc red if the ebc reds wear the rotors faster. The rotors cost way more than the pads, so why not just keep replacing with OEM pads and save your rotors??? Also V8 weight any insight on the hawk pads???TIA - Nistah

[Brav]

Point. But whatever pad you choose, DO NOT Choose OEM. The pins will destroy your rotors anyway. I chose EBCs primarily for lower dust. Fair tradeoff for me. But I think they caused my rotors to warp when bedding them in. I fixed the problem I think by turning them. I still get a slight vibration at high speed that I cant quite source..

[hahnmgh63]

I haven't heard of, or had the experience of the EBC Reds wearing the rotor faster than OEM pads. My first set of rotors wore out at 25K with OEM's, my second set with EBC's lasted for 35K. I am now using EBC Yellows which have a harder initial bite and higher heat rating than the Reds, time will tell how they do.

[Brav]

Good to know, Hahn. Geez, I put almost 20k miles a year on mine! not the cheapest daily :)

[V8weight]

I've been running the Hawk HPS pads for a while now....No squeak after installation, or ever for that matter. Better initial bit than the EBC reds. No more purple rotors. Seems to be a much better pad in my opinion. I can sell the Hawk HPS for all for wheels for $240....go to ECS Tuning and do some comparison shopping, this is dirt cheap.

[JSRS6]

I'll definitely get em from you when the time comes Pat.

[V8weight]

I'll definitely get em from you when the time comes Pat.
Speaking of getting things from me...what ever became of my timing belt tools?

[JSRS6]

I'll be damned. I'll get them out today. You know how it gets busy.

[nistah]

Pat, I would like to purchase a set of four hawk pads please send me an invoice to nistah@yahoo.com . Is it possible to have them delivered by Friday of next week?

Hoping to have the folks at Moore do the install during the East Coast test n tune if possible. Josh should I call Moore or ask you?

Thanks Guys!

[JSRS6]

Pat, I would like to purchase a set of four hawk pads please send me an invoice to nistah@yahoo.com . Is it possible to have them delivered by Friday of next week?

Hoping to have the folks at Moore do the install during the East Coast test n tune if possible. Josh should I call Moore or ask you?

Thanks Guys!

I will ask tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure the two techs are gonna be pretty busy on a Saturday accommodating us. HOWEVER, I will see if I can borrow their lift and hook you up.

[1 bad 03 rs6]

I've been running the Hawk HPS pads for a while now....No squeak after installation, or ever for that matter. Better initial bit than the EBC reds. No more purple rotors. Seems to be a much better pad in my opinion. I can sell the Hawk HPS for all for wheels for $240....go to ECS Tuning and do some comparison shopping, this is dirt cheap.

Can you still do this deal? Is that $240 for front and rears? If so PM me and let's deal.

[V8weight]

Sorry, I don't have access to any of this stuff anymore.

[Brav]

That price was way cheap.. I talked to Supreme Power (local to me) and he said it would be 360 for front and rears. Still lower than ECS by quite a bit.

[StevieG.]

I have been running the Reds for a while, and the only issue I have noticed is they seemed to fade in the hills during a long 8-9 hour trip. Seeing the yellows at AutoAnything for 250 a full set, since this thread is from last August, anybody comment on best experience with pads since?

[hahnmgh63]

I have been using the Yellows and happy with them, and only about $10~$20 more than the Reds and are higher temp capable. I was also one of the guys using the Reds and had a bit of deposits on my old Rotors and that is before I ran my first track event. So when I installed my new Rotors, I also installed the Phaeton brake cooling ducts and swapped to the Yellows. I also put a couple hundred miles on the Yellows before I did my first DE event as I wanted to wear down the Chamfer area they have on them for break-in to get the full pad surface area before I took them to the track.

[kismetcapitan]

in some way or another, pad imprinting will always be an issue, unless you go into neutral after stopping after some vigorous braking. With all of my previous manual cars, I got into the habit of going into neutral and using the e-brake at stoplights, if I knew I had really heated my rotors. Holding pads to hot rotors (like holding the car at a stoplight with an automatic) will imprint pads; it's just a matter of degree.

[G2]

Old post..... but in case anyones been put off by EBC "quality", there's more to the story. I've done 20+ customer cars and trucks with EBC pads and rotors over the last 3 years. And personally have used EBC on my Audi's and vehicles for the last 10yrs.

In short, RedStuff pads are NOT a good choice for an RS6 (see EBC recommendations based on weight and power). It tries to over achieve in low dust and tends to not absorb enough heat, often causing rotor warpage, especially on automatic trans cars. But I've not seen any pad transfer as someone noted. I think that was actually "chill spots" from over heating...

YellowStuff pads are rated for the weight and power of higher power vehicles. EBC also makes race pads, beyond the yellow composition....

I like EBC because they are made in the UK. They also make brakes for industrial applications (trains, earth movers, windmills), including many forms of motor sports. Overall the value and quality is hard to beat.

[Other_Erik]

Had fresh hawk performance ceramic pads put on last week, and now noticing a hot metal/burning smell when I put the car in the garage. Anyone think there's a problem, or is it just the pads curing as I put some miles on them? Still using the old OEM rotors, they're not worn enough to warrant replacement, but I'd rather avoid nasty surprises...

O_E

[MaxRS6]

^Probably pads just seating in. Go bed those pads- and you will have some smell and possibly smoke...;0

Don't put the Ebrake on afterwards until cooled- just sayin

[DHall1]

This is the best explination on the EBC red pad issues. Some have no problems and the pads last forever....some burn up rotors. Difference between a daily driven RS and one thats run hard in the corners.

I did slightly warp a set of rotors on my #1 car with reds. This explains it....as it was after a bedding session. I will get a set of Yellows and install a new set of front rotors and start fresh. Then resurface these fronts and use them on #3.

#3 has has EBC reds since 15k miles and it just got another set at 40k with no problems and no warp. Daily driven normally during that time. So I will leave the reds on #3 till this set wears out.


Old post..... but in case anyones been put off by EBC "quality", there's more to the story. I've done 20+ customer cars and trucks with EBC pads and rotors over the last 3 years. And personally have used EBC on my Audi's and vehicles for the last 10yrs.

In short, RedStuff pads are NOT a good choice for an RS6 (see EBC recommendations based on weight and power). It tries to over achieve in low dust and tends to not absorb enough heat, often causing rotor warpage, especially on automatic trans cars. But I've not seen any pad transfer as someone noted. I think that was actually "chill spots" from over heating...

YellowStuff pads are rated for the weight and power of higher power vehicles. EBC also makes race pads, beyond the yellow composition....

I like EBC because they are made in the UK. They also make brakes for industrial applications (trains, earth movers, windmills), including many forms of motor sports. Overall the value and quality is hard to beat.

[hahnmgh63]

I've been using Yellows for quite some time on both the RS6 (second set) and Cayenne Turbo S (380mm rotors) and they are great on both. Have a set of Reds on my little Audi tt and not happy with them, will go to Yellows when the Reds wear out but even driving the tt hard is still relatively slow compared to the RS6 or CTTS.

[G2]

Had fresh hawk performance ceramic pads put on last week, and now noticing a hot metal/burning smell when I put the car in the garage. Anyone think there's a problem, or is it just the pads curing as I put some miles on them? Still using the old OEM rotors, they're not worn enough to warrant replacement, but I'd rather avoid nasty surprises...

O_E

The rotors should have been turned/machined before installing new pads. Otherwise the grooved rotor surface will prematurely wear the pads that may cause hot spots. Glazed rotors also don't help. Most pads are "pre-bedded" nowadays, but don't know on the Hawks. Also the front calipers may not perfectly aligned when tightened, causing pad drag. I noticed this on my car. I either manually aligned the caliper and/or apply the brakes THEN tighten the caliper bolts.

There may also be an issue with the OE torque spec being too low. I torque mine to 65-70lbs per a race mechanic friend of mine that deals with radial mount calipers all the time. It helps keep the caliper from moving on the carrier bracket. Finally, I check for rotor drag, actuate the brakes several times, and make any needed caliper position adjustments. Easy check: use a IR temp gun or touch (umm, be careful...) the rotor to check for heat difference side to side-- this works well for the outter surface only.

Last but not least, it's important to throughly clean and lube the caliper guides. I use anti-squeal compound on the pad backing plates to further help retract the pad. After 1,000's of brake jobs, it's a rare day I see a proper job...

Guessing the smell is now gone...?

[Other_Erik]

The rotors should have been turned/machined before installing new pads. Otherwise the grooved rotor surface will prematurely wear the pads that may cause hot spots. Glazed rotors also don't help. Most pads are "pre-bedded" nowadays, but don't know on the Hawks. Also the front calipers may not perfectly aligned when tightened, causing pad drag. I noticed this on my car. I either manually aligned the caliper and/or apply the brakes THEN tighten the caliper bolts.

There may also be an issue with the OE torque spec being too low. I torque mine to 65-70lbs per a race mechanic friend of mine that deals with radial mount calipers all the time. It helps keep the caliper from moving on the carrier bracket. Finally, I check for rotor drag, actuate the brakes several times, and make any needed caliper position adjustments. Easy check: use a IR temp gun or touch (umm, be careful...) the rotor to check for heat difference side to side-- this works well for the outter surface only.

Last but not least, it's important to throughly clean and lube the caliper guides. I use anti-squeal compound on the pad backing plates to further help retract the pad. After 1,000's of brake jobs, it's a rare day I see a proper job...

Guessing the smell is now gone...?

Aye, the smell is gone. I thoroughly cleaned the whole calipers and cleaned/lubed the guides, used anti-squeak on the backing plates, etc... the rotor surface itself wasn't very grooved up at all - I've seen much worse on fresh rotors after a day at the track. Pretty well certain it was just the pads themselves heating and cooling, curing as they were cycled. My take on pads thus far:

OE Pads: 7/10 braking power overall. 8/10 initial bite with a fairly quick fade down to 6/10 stopping power (may be because they were worn to about 25-30% useable pad left), 1/10 for dust and noise both - by far the messiest pads with the worst squeal I've ever had on the street.
Hawk PC's: 8/10 braking power overall. 7/10 initial bite with no discernible fade, 6/10 on dust - still noticeable dust, but nowhere near as bad as the OE pads, 9/10 on noise - so far super-quiet, only a little bit of shearing noise when stabbed at higher speed.

All in all, much happier with Hawk Performance Ceramics than the OE pads, now we'll just have to see how long they last :|

O_E