Question for those that have pulled their Downpipes

[hahnmgh63]

Is it just a machined fit between the Downpipe and the Turbo or is there a gasket in there? I have checked out the ETKA illustrations 253-78 and it shows the bolts & nuts (ordered the nuts but it doesn't give a part # for the bolts) but there are no gaskets showing? Thanks

[amanda]

I think there is a gasket but I could be wrong! Sorry I am not more help but others may know more than me.

[4everRS]

There are copper gaskets in there. When Pat and I did mine, we reused the gaskets.

[hahnmgh63]

Ok, I think I found them listed in the ETKA as #3 although they are not shown in the picture. I went ahead and ordered them so I hope they are right. I'm pulling the downpipes tonight and I ordered new front O2 sensors and already have new EGT probes to install while I'm at it. With the Turbo's mounted on the exhaust manifolds, do you guys think there is much benefit in ceramic coating the downpipes? 4B3253115 (javascript:;)

[ben916]

Ok, I think I found them listed in the ETKA as #3 although they are not shown in the picture. I went ahead and ordered them so I hope they are right. I'm pulling the downpipes tonight and I ordered new front O2 sensors and already have new EGT probes to install while I'm at it. With the Turbo's mounted on the exhaust manifolds, do you guys think there is much benefit in ceramic coating the downpipes? 4B3253115 (javascript:;)

Is it gonna be ready for me to test drive next week???? :)

[4everRS]

Sounds like fun! I imagine you will be tipping the cradle down to access the nuts of the DP's? Also, it is easier to remove the O2's first to gain better access to the DP nuts. I didn't know you could get at the EGT's without pulling the engine?
Ok, I think I found them listed in the ETKA as #3 although they are not shown in the picture. I went ahead and ordered them so I hope they are right. I'm pulling the downpipes tonight and I ordered new front O2 sensors and already have new EGT probes to install while I'm at it. With the Turbo's mounted on the exhaust manifolds, do you guys think there is much benefit in ceramic coating the downpipes? 4B3253115 (javascript:;)

[Stephencl]

The ceramic coated link does not work for me. I am thinking of having a set ceramic coated, would love any details. Yes, I would think there would be some definite heat benefits.

Stephen

[hahnmgh63]

Sorry Stephen, the hyperlink was a part # for the gaskets found on Vagcat.com, same as my ETKA. If I decide to ceramic coat them I will be taking them to www.highperformancecoatings.com (http://www.highperformancecoatings.com) , Ben, I just received Vitalian's PM that mentioned it. I will definitley be there next week if you make it and I should probably have the RS back together by then if GenuineVWAudi gets me the gaskets and hardware. If I have the pipes coated I will probably have them off tonight and at Performance coatings by tomorrow if all goes well (looking for something wood to knock on). Either way I'll be at the Audi get together next week.

[vitalian]

Ben, I just received Vitalian's PM that mentioned it. I will definitley be there next week if you make it and I should probably have the RS back together by then if GenuineVWAudi gets me the gaskets and hardware. If I have the pipes coated I will probably have them off tonight and at Performance coatings by tomorrow if all goes well (looking for something wood to knock on). Either way I'll be at the Audi get together next week.

Ben, I tried to PM you too, but your box is full! I was thinking of doing Audi night at Feierabend on 4/20 if you're interested, and maybe doing a post so other PNW peeps can come too. Mark and I are "all in," what say you?

[ben916]

Ben, I tried to PM you too, but your box is full! I was thinking of doing Audi night at Feierabend on 4/20 if you're interested, and maybe doing a post so other PNW peeps can come too. Mark and I are "all in," what say you?

All in also~!

EDIT: Inbox clear!

[V8weight]

Mark, 4B3 253 115 is the correct part number for the turbo to downpipe gaskets. The part number for the studs is N 907 787 02, and the nuts are WHT 000 039. The version of ETKA that most of us have on the board doesn't show the studs and nuts for the downpipe to turbo flange, but it does list the turbo to exhaust manifold fasteners, which are the same. Good luck with your project, and feel free to drop me a line if you run into any snags along the way.

[4everRS]

I have a set of stock DP's for sale if anyone is interested. They are off my car after I had covertw12's gutted and ceramic coated, then put on my car.

[hahnmgh63]

Thanks for the info Pat, I'm heading out to the shop in a few minutes. Only a 30min job right? :)

[V8weight]

Thanks for the info Pat, I'm heading out to the shop in a few minutes. Only a 30min job right? :)
It's actually not that hard, but be prepared to chase the threads in the turbo flanges.

[hahnmgh63]

Oh, I can make it hard though. I got the drivers side off pretty much no problem, a little tight though. The passenger side is not only tighter but I managed to get two of the bolts off and the 3rd nut decided to stick hard and the stud broke off flush with the flange....so now I think I'm going to drop the engine & tranny to get at it all....damn. I only have time after work so this may be a bit of a project, oh well.

[vitalian]

^^Ouch, that is a bummer! It seems like working on these cars often has a lot in common with government projects -- it takes twice as long and costs twice as much as you thought it would! I was looking forward to getting a look-see at your ride next week, but guess I may have to wait. Good luck!

[Brav]

I am going to tackle this soon as well. I want to gut my cats and then repair/replace the flex hose. Best way to gut cats?? (bowie knife?)

[terrytcl]

Mark, you should try drilling a hole in the middle of the broken stud and use a reverse out bit.

[V8weight]

Mark, you should try drilling a hole in the middle of the broken stud and use a reverse out bit.
Words cannot describe how badly these studs seize into the turbo flanges. You would end up with a broken stud, and a broken drill bit to boot. May work with the right amount of heat.

[hahnmgh63]

I'm hoping there is enough stud left to weld a nut on the end then use a little heat on the flange to loosen things up a little. And prior to all of that a lot of Kroil on the front and back of the stud to get things loosened up a little.
For now I'm planning on doing the Timing belt/waterpump (perfect timing on that group buy, thanks Pat), O2 sensors, EGT sensors, Valve cover gaskets (noticed my passenger side starting to slightly seep after I got the front end in the service position). What else? What is this I hear about the plastic coolant fitting that someone has a machined aluminum replacement for? To be safe it sounds better than a new plastic one for the long run. Can I grind off about 100~150 lbs from the block and transmission to lighten the front end while I'm at it?

[ben916]

I am going to tackle this soon as well. I want to gut my cats and then repair/replace the flex hose. Best way to gut cats?? (bowie knife?)

DIY or indy shop?

[4everRS]

Try to get your hands on 2 good sized air chisels. I found it best to use a 14" punch. I punched holes through the cats making one, larger hole in the middle of the cat. Then chisel/punch out the sides. The second air chisel will be used to be able to get the first one out when you get it stuck, cause you will. Have a nice long needle nose available to pull out the chunks of cat material as you break it up.
I am going to tackle this soon as well. I want to gut my cats and then repair/replace the flex hose. Best way to gut cats?? (bowie knife?)

[Brav]

LOL thanks.. I am taking it to a local muffler guy who has done a lot of work for me. Going this afternoon.. contemplating removing everythihng, but maybe I should be 50% legal? I want this thing loud. May remove stock mufflers.

[ben916]

LOL thanks.. I am taking it to a local muffler guy who has done a lot of work for me. Going this afternoon.. contemplating removing everythihng, but maybe I should be 50% legal? I want this thing loud. May remove stock mufflers.

I would do it also BUT I need to pass smog....

[4everRS]

My proceedure above is to gut the precats. Thats all I did to mine. It really doesn't make it noticably louder. Pat did both of his and says it makes a big difference on sound level. The main cat will need to be cut off and re welded back on to get the cat out.
LOL thanks.. I am taking it to a local muffler guy who has done a lot of work for me. Going this afternoon.. contemplating removing everythihng, but maybe I should be 50% legal? I want this thing loud. May remove stock mufflers.

[hahnmgh63]

Yea, I'm planning on going the air chisel route myself. I haven't even looked at my air chisels yet to see if I have one long enough but now since the job is going to be much bigger with the complete drop of the engine I have plenty of time to get more tools.

[Brav]

I have an air chisel if needed. So is it best to just do a muffler delete if don't want to mess with main cats?

[4everRS]

That would take care of the sound level. I have yet to hear it with mufflers removed but I've been told it sounds pretty good. Taking out both cats on each side will give you the most performance gain though.
I have an air chisel if needed. So is it best to just do a muffler delete if don't want to mess with main cats?

[Brav]

Will see what I do today. If I remove it all or just gut the pre's. I just fear it sol sound a little sloppy if I take out the mufflers.

[Elevens]

Don't be Wimps. Save up and get the real Deal. Smooth Mandrel bent tubing straight from the Turbo's back to the Mufflers. No empty Cat Converter cavities to produce turbulence in the exhaust flow. And believe you me, It sounds nice. The best part of driving my car is the sound. Brutal................


Milltek

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/vintron/P1010352.jpg

[Brav]

mmmm tempting..

no go on getting the shop to gut it. multiple concerns.. didn't have the equip, for one.

[amanda]

As long as the car is nice and hot before the test, it should pass the smog/emmissions test no probs ;)

[speedtrapped]

mmmm tempting..

no go on getting the shop to gut it. multiple concerns.. didn't have the equip, for one.

Brav, I know Pat had discussed the amount of time on the DIY for gutting, I have never, but my mechanic said same thing, huge PIA and wont do it, because it takes up so much time. Like elevens said, almost worth buying straight DP's...

[terrytcl]

http://www.dahlbackracing.se/SearchPerformanceParts.asp?ModelID=32&ManufacturerID=1&CategoryID=14&ShowPanel=no&LanguageID=1

race downpipes are pretty cheap

anyone know what stock downpipe OD is?
anyone know what milltek downpipe OD is?

here's a picture of the RS6 downpipe flange -
http://www.dahlbackracing.se/images/Parts/flansar/o433.jpg

i can or have someone i know probably make a couple downpipes, but not sure how the stock and aftermarket downpipes are conforming around this flange.
can someone take pictures of their stock and aftermarket downpipes around the flange?

[Brav]

All I can say is that in custom tuning my Noble (twin turbo V6) we had better results with 2.5" vs 3" exhaust, due to exhaust gas velocity decreasing with the 3". Going wider isn't always better for max power, can have an affect on top end, etc. Just a cautionary note :)

[marklar182]

For the price, you would think those Millteks were made of gold. No thanks. I'm suprised China copies haven't hit the market like most aftermarket parts.

I would rather chisel out both the stock pre and main cats and call it a day. Ninja style.

[amanda]

Brav, I know Pat had discussed the amount of time on the DIY for gutting, I have never, but my mechanic said same thing, huge PIA and wont do it, because it takes up so much time. Like elevens said, almost worth buying straight DP's...


Correct just buy the down pipes ....................job done ;)

[Elevens]

For the price, you would think those Millteks were made of gold. No thanks. I'm suprised China copies haven't hit the market like most aftermarket parts.

I would rather chisel out both the stock pre and main cats and call it a day. Ninja style.


You get what you pay for Bro. Shipped from Unit 20 over in the UK it was $1450.00. Not bad considering the High flow catted version are around 3 grand. And I guaranty you a lot of research went into the design of the pipe to assure maximum gains. I believe the pipe diameter to be 2.75", which is larger than stock, which a lot of people found out after attempting to put the Large Milltek Tips on the stock mufflers.........

[terrytcl]

You get what you pay for Bro. Shipped from Unit 20 over in the UK it was $1450.00. Not bad considering the High flow catted version are around 3 grand. And I guaranty you a lot of research went into the design of the pipe to assure maximum gains. I believe the pipe diameter to be 2.75", which is larger than stock, which a lot of people found out after attempting to put the Large Milltek Tips on the stock mufflers.........

not bad! does the race version connect straight to the milltek exhaust without the adapters?

[marklar182]

You get what you pay for Bro. Shipped from Unit 20 over in the UK it was $1450.00. Not bad considering the High flow catted version are around 3 grand. And I guaranty you a lot of research went into the design of the pipe to assure maximum gains. I believe the pipe diameter to be 2.75", which is larger than stock, which a lot of people found out after attempting to put the Large Milltek Tips on the stock mufflers.........

I am not condoning chinese copying btw, my other car (300zx) community has a horrible problem with chinese copy exact aftermarket (lower quality) parts flooding the market, and killing further innovation.

Further, I would not install a generic copy on my RS anyhow, just surprised at the simplicity vs cost of the Milltek race DP's.

I just wonder what the difference in response/power would be between fully gutted stock DP's and the Millteks, and if it justifies $1500.

[Elevens]

not bad! does the race version connect straight to the milltek exhaust without the adapters?

Yes, they are made for each other. As a matter of fact Milltek does not recommend using their Downpipes unless it is mated to a Milltek Exhaust system. I guess they are tuned for each other.........................



I just wonder what the difference in response/power would be between fully gutted stock DP's and the Millteks, and if it justifies $1500.

Not certain about that. But just think about it, the Exhaust Flow would definitely be smoother with no gutted Cat Converter Cavities to contend with. Maybe slightly faster spooling and sweet sounding. Mine sounds like a Jet when I stand on it and then the Milltek boxes take over at which point everybody's looking. Does it justify the additional cost, to me it does. But I can't give you any concrete evidence that there is an advantage over just gutting the Cats. One thing I do know is that a better Exhaust Flow usually results in more power and quicker response time. One day I'll Dyno this damn thing just to find out how much power is actually at the wheels. But I still have Larger Intercoolers to Install and a custom Re Tune before I do that.....................

[mdegracia]

Planning on gutting just my pre-cats and relocating the O2 sensors.

Any advice from those who have done this?

[4everRS]

No need to relocate o2's. Just get spacers so they are a little out from the airstream. If you have a tune it can be coded out.

For gutting, if possible, get 2 good air chisels with long, blunt tips. The first one will get stuck in the material, them hammer the second one next to it. Make a circle in the middle of the cat material and pull the center out. Then chisel around the edges and dump/pull out the chunks as they are freed. You'll want a real long needle nose pliers. Wear a mask.

[SzymekCRX]

What's the difference between gutting the cat and cutting the cat out and replace it with a pipe ?

[hahnmgh63]

Probably more efficient (exhuast flow) to cut the cat out and weld in a straight pipe but either way the downpipe will have to be removed and when you weld in the straight pipe you always take the chance of not having everthing aligned properly when the new pipe is welded in which may lead to alignment issues. The slightly (1/4") larger diameter Milltek downpipes are beautifully finished & Mandrel bent pieces that were $1100 delivered from Unit 20. I do have my OEM downpipes with one of the precats partially gutted if anyone is interested but might as well just gut your own or buy some new pipes?

[lswing]

hagnmg63, I might be up for buying those gutted DP's. What's your cost, and are they SE, does it matter? Also, could you tell me where the other cat's are? I've been looking over ETKA and cannot pinpoint where they are, there is a pre right before the turbo I believe?