KW V3 or PSS9

[Brav]

I am looking for feedback from people who have ridden in both cars. For nearly even money, I can get my hands on either one. It seems everyone has drank the koolaid for the KWs, and they are nice units. I will probably never track the car (use the Noble/Kart for that) and want to maintain a reasonable ride, yet crisp it up.

I know the PSS9s are easier to adjust, and generally less expensive. They are also not "RS6-specific" which may or may not be a real concern. Weight diff from 4.2 V8 A6 is negligible (published weights nearly the same).

KWs - are both front and rear actual coil overs with remote reservoir? some photos show just a shock/spring combo..

Right now I am leaning towards PSS9, just to be different, and potentially a slightly softer ride. I know I cant really go wrong either way.

Again, if you have ridden/driven in both, please chime in!

[micdee]

As I recently made the change from DRC to KW I can tell you that under my car only the rear shocks came with a gas reservoir and these had only 1 coil spring.
The front shocks hold 2 coil springs; 1 very small one and a larger one. In my situation the small spring does not have any effect as it is completely compressed.

I made a picture of the set, so I'll try to find it and post it if you like.

[V8weight]

As I recently made the change from DRC to KW I can tell you that under my car only the rear shocks came with a gas reservoir and these had only 1 coil spring.
The front shocks hold 2 coil springs; 1 very small one and a larger one. In my situation the small spring does not have any effect as it is completely compressed.

I made a picture of the set, so I'll try to find it and post it if you like.
The smaller springs only purpose is to keep the main coil spring seated when you raise the car and the suspension is fully extended.

[RS6Steve]

I'm sure my PSS9's were for an RS6!

http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?230=1&34=0,1830&36=190&35=0&32=16628&14=4&10=0008627621982597018004&12=130

They are a different part number to the 4.2 V8

[Brav]

thanks Mic. If its convenient, post some photos if you have already taken them. If not, don't worry

[ben916]

I'm sure my PSS9's were for an RS6!

http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?230=1&34=0,1830&36=190&35=0&32=16628&14=4&10=0008627621982597018004&12=130

They are a different part number to the 4.2 V8

This is great information! Too bad I am unable to read it :(

T/J:
Sessh! I emailed Exalt motorsports here in San Diego (actually El Cajon) about the Stasis Motorsports ($3800 and not everyday ya get someone inquiring about high ticket items) and zip, zero, nada response. Guess they are too busy building F350 14' tall that are capable of a 6 point turn...

BRAV: Next time you go to Raven, I would like to tag along!

[micdee]

@Brav: this is the KW set

http://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10914

More pictures of the build you can find in my album.

[ben916]

someone is listening somewhere....

cross post
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/411488-Free-Expert-Installation-on-all-KW-Suspension-Purchases!!! (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/411488-Free-Expert-Installation-on-all-KW-Suspension-Purchases%21%21%21)

[Brav]

Thanks guys. Not making the decision very easy! Every time I go over a bump, it sounds like someone dropping a box of tools as I bounce gracefully down the road like a 75 El Dorado. DRC completely gone.

[riaand]

I also took my DRC system out 2 weeks ago and installed Bilstein PSS9's. I am very pleased with the system. The softness feels exactly the same to the DRC system I had before it started to leak. Currently I have it on the softess setting 9. When I will change over to my summer wheels, I will set it harder to 6-7. I first had the car to low and the next weekend I lifted it to 10mm under the original height. At this height the Bilsteins are almost at their maximum height with the spacer spring still attached. I have also uploaded some photo's in my profile.

[hahnmgh63]

Riaand, I like the looks of the car. Are all of these pics after the Bilstein install as the ride height looks perfect.

[riaand]

@hahnmgh63: no, all the pics are from before the mod. It looks more or less the same now as before. I have my winter wheels on now, so I have to wait for summer to see the real final result.

[JSRS6]

I also took my DRC system out 2 weeks ago and installed Bilstein PSS9's. I am very pleased with the system. The softness feels exactly the same to the DRC system I had before it started to leak. Currently I have it on the softess setting 9. When I will change over to my summer wheels, I will set it harder to 6-7. I first had the car to low and the next weekend I lifted it to 10mm under the original height. At this height the Bilsteins are almost at their maximum height with the spacer spring still attached. I have also uploaded some photo's in my profile.
Please tell me im wrong. I read the manual before installing my pss9's, and it said 9 was hard and 1 was soft.

[riaand]

@JSRS6: I have received the following installation manual in the box with the shocks. On page 3 you will see 1=sport and 9=comfort

http://cart.bilsteinus.com/pdfs/E4-WM4-Y514A02.pdf

Furthermore are mine installed in such a way that I can set all 4 within 5minutes. So if yours are the same, I would suggest that you try it on anther setting and see what it feels like! Good luck!

[JSRS6]

@JSRS6: I have received the following installation manual in the box with the shocks. On page 3 you will see 1=sport and 9=comfort

http://cart.bilsteinus.com/pdfs/E4-WM4-Y514A02.pdf

Furthermore are mine installed in such a way that I can set all 4 within 5minutes. So if yours are the same, I would suggest that you try it on anther setting and see what it feels like! Good luck!

That explains alot! Thanks man. And yes i have mine oriented the same way so as to expedite setting changes.

[ttboost]

Is there a weight savings going from DRC to regular coilovers? Probably negligable...?

[V8weight]

Is there a weight savings going from DRC to regular coilovers? Probably negligable...?
It's been a while, so I don't recall exactly. I seem to remember 20-30lbs savings after removing the central valves and associated DRC rubbish.

[ttboost]

Hmmm seems worth it to me... although I just found out that my DRC recall was done in 09, so no sense of urgency. I'll keep an eye out for a used set...

[hahnmgh63]

ttboost, the weight savings going to KWV3's is only about 18lbs (including Central Valves), I weighed mine when I put them in and pulled all of the DRC junk out. Bilstein may be slightly lighter I'm not sure as KW's are pretty stout struts/Shocks and the rears have the added Resevoirs which are probably good for at least a pound a piece.

[RS6Steve]

I also took my DRC system out 2 weeks ago and installed Bilstein PSS9's. I am very pleased with the system. The softness feels exactly the same to the DRC system I had before it started to leak. Currently I have it on the softess setting 9. When I will change over to my summer wheels, I will set it harder to 6-7. I first had the car to low and the next weekend I lifted it to 10mm under the original height. At this height the Bilsteins are almost at their maximum height with the spacer spring still attached. I have also uploaded some photo's in my profile.

Try setting them to 4, I found that to be the best. Especially on European roads!

[Aronis]

Has anyone did this them self??

My DRC has died again...really fun winter driving with this loosy goosy system.

Mike

[hahnmgh63]

Aronis, you mean the aftermarket Coilover install? I think there is at least a half dozen of us that have done it. I have the convenience of a 4 post lift in my shop which makes it much easier but it can be done without one. The lift makes it much easier getting at the DRC lines if you want to remove them but the KW kit at least comes with plugs to plug off the DRC lines if you want to keep them. I chose to remove all of the lines & Central valves. I may even have the plugs from KW somewhere if someone on the list wants them. Although if your going to remove the DRC shocks why keep the lines & Central valves as at that point it would cost you a fortune to acquire new struts/shocks to reinstall.

[Aronis]

Yes, the plan would be to remove the entire system so as to avoid any rattling from loose tubing....etc....

I'd like to do this myself but you're very correct having a lift is much nicer. LOL...

I am looking into options within a reasonable drive to have it done.

I'm not set on any type, I have been told that the stock Audi parts from an S6 will work fine.

Mike

[JSRS6]

The install is quite easy, even without a lift. Me and a buddy pulled a late night bilstein party, and it went smoothly.

[Elevens]

Yea did mine also. Wasn't too bad. Took me a few nights after work. My upper links came out easily though. Can't say the same for everyone else. And if you can't free them it makes a relatively easy job a nightmare......................

[hahnmgh63]

I just sprayed a little penetration oil (Kroil is my favorite) on all of the bolts and the splits in the A-arms for two nights in a row and they came off easily. If you haven't done them in a while it is a good time to do the A-Arms, or at least the upper as they seem to be most prone to bushing failure. The A-Arms on the front are exactly the same as those from the 2002-on A6 & S6, the only reason for the different suffix on the part # is that the RS6 bushings are slightly stiffer, the arms themselves are exactly the same so once you remove the DRC the A6 or S6 shocks would fit no problem although I would imagine the front end of our cars being slightly heavier than a S6 and a fair amount heavier than a A6 as far as spring rates.

[Brav]

Well, I decided on KW. I guess at the end of the day, it was an RS6-specific unit, and I liked the fancy remote reservoirs, and a set was ready to go for me. I will post pics of the install, before/after in the next few days. I am doing all of the front control arms and bushings. The rear seems ok.. anything else I should be doing right not? Apikol diff mount?

[V8weight]

Do you have the H-Sport sway bars yet?

[MaxRS6]

Well, I decided on KW. I guess at the end of the day, it was an RS6-specific unit, and I liked the fancy remote reservoirs, and a set was ready to go for me. I will post pics of the install, before/after in the next few days. I am doing all of the front control arms and bushings. The rear seems ok.. anything else I should be doing right not? Apikol diff mount?

Welcome to the dark side! I look forward to seeing the pics and your impressions.

The Apikol diff mount was a win for me- especially after seeing the one they pulled off.

[Brav]

no sway bars, suspension is virgin.

[JSRS6]

We all highly recommend you get them...

[ben916]

Well, I decided on KW. I guess at the end of the day, it was an RS6-specific unit, and I liked the fancy remote reservoirs, and a set was ready to go for me. I will post pics of the install, before/after in the next few days. I am doing all of the front control arms and bushings. The rear seems ok.. anything else I should be doing right not? Apikol diff mount?

Raven?
Can you PM me your cost for the KWv3?
Also did you look up Headshots vehicle alteration for access to adjust the KW's via the engine bay versus removing everything????

[Brav]

I need a new clutch/trans in my Noble as it turns out.. so this may delay further upgrades on my RS6 :(

I get most all my aftermarket parts/wheels/tires through Eric @ Supreme Power. Haven't seen the alteration for access for adjustment.. I imagine it requires the use of a grinder!

edit- just researched this mod, will definitely be grinding out some access holes.

[Aronis]

At the time I had my DRC last replaced I had them replace all wearable items such as the control arms, etc, so I am guessing those parts a probably ok.

So the DIY Coilover job. Some Questions:

1. Disconnecting the DRC - how does the check valve come apart and how do you determine the correct point to disconnect.
2. Did you have to compress or hold at a point of compression the strut and spring combination for safe removal - I assume that with the car up on a lift the strut and spring are fully unloaded.
3. If I dissconnect the front two DRC struts from the DRC tubing and do just the front two new coil overs could the car be driven if needed? That is can I do 1/2 half of the job and with the DRC disconnected at the check valve would the rear dampers still have what little pressure they have now still there? I assume yes if the check valves are doing their job.
4. I have documents on how-to-do and a specific bolts is labeled DO NOT LOOSEN as this will effect the alignment. Is having an alignment done right away needed to safely use the car if I do not mistakenly move that nut?
5. Any special tools needed?

Thanks

Mike

[hahnmgh63]

1. I just unbolted the lines going to the shocks/struts and all seeemed fine. Un-connected right and the Shock/Strut fittings.
2. For the rear Shocks you need to unhook the swaybar to drop the A-Arm low enough to get the Shock out. In the front, if not replacing the upper strut mount the spring isn't under great tension when extended so you can just undo the upper Strut shaft bolt and let the mount and spring pop loose. Pretty much same for the rear.
3. If you needed to move the car I don't see why you couldn't move the car around after just doing the front but I wouldn't plan on going too far.
4. I didn't get my car aligned for a full month afterward as I wanted to let my springs settle in before my alignment.
5. No special tools needed if you have a descent tool set. Some deep sockets, and Audi/VW upper strut socket (22mm w/cutout for allen wrench).
If you plan to pull all of the lines you will have to remove all of the wheel well liners unless you just cut the lines on each end from where you can reach them and pull them through. The Central valves are bolted to the leading edge (front) of the spare tire well (I plugged the holes with Silicone to keep the spare tire well dry).

[Aronis]

I was able to find an excellent PDF on the KW website showing some of the installation specific to the V3 variant.

I have the Bentley manual and just reviewed the sections on the struts ( I've looked this over quite a few times when I was considering a DIY the first time the DRC died).

I am confident I can do this myself after reviewing the information.

I was just not 100% on the check valves but after seeing the diagrams and pictures in the KW PDF I can see which side of the connection to remove LOL.

Thanks for the input.

I'll be ordering the KW's this week.

Mike

[Aronis]

Well, I decided on KW. I guess at the end of the day, it was an RS6-specific unit, and I liked the fancy remote reservoirs, and a set was ready to go for me. I will post pics of the install, before/after in the next few days. I am doing all of the front control arms and bushings. The rear seems ok.. anything else I should be doing right not? Apikol diff mount?

Which model did you go with? I was looking at the KW variant 3?

Mike

[Aronis]

hahnmgh63

". No special tools needed if you have a descent tool set. Some deep sockets, and Audi/VW upper strut socket (22mm w/cutout for allen wrench)."


Please tell me more about this special socket?? What is the cut out for ? I have an image of this socket in the bentley manual with the cut out but is it truely needed? Where can I get one??

Thank you,

Mike

[JSRS6]

hahnmgh63

". No special tools needed if you have a descent tool set. Some deep sockets, and Audi/VW upper strut socket (22mm w/cutout for allen wrench)."


Please tell me more about this special socket?? What is the cut out for ? I have an image of this socket in the bentley manual with the cut out but is it truely needed? Where can I get one??

Thank you,

Mike

You don't NEED the special socket, but it is helpful. You can acheive the same results with a 22mm shallow and a pair of Vice grips. You use the Allen to keep the damper from turning as you tighten the lock nut.

[JSRS6]

Which model did you go with? I was looking at the KW variant 3?

Mike

Kw v3 is fully adjustable, the other variants aren't. I would go v3.

[V8weight]

I did the Headshot mods for easy access to the rebound adjusters, but honestly, after trying every adjustment under the sun, I settled on the same spec that seems to be working for everybody. Kw recommended bump and rebound settings in the rear, and one clicker firmer rebound in the front.

[SteveKen]

I did the Headshot mods for easy access to the rebound adjusters, but honestly, after trying every adjustment under the sun, I settled on the same spec that seems to be working for everybody. Kw recommended bump and rebound settings in the rear, and one clicker firmer rebound in the front.

So how many people out there just "set it and forget it" to coin a Ron Popeil phrase?

I'm guessing it's 90% of the RS6 users.

Therefore, why doesn't someone just come up with a spring/shock combo that mimics this setting?

Guess there's not enough demand yet.

[MaxRS6]

I've been one of those that has not adjusted it. I would probably end up second guessing myself imagining strange behaviors, changing it through every combination just to arrive back to where I originally had it set. Then I would imagine it wasn't as "spot on" as before I started the fiddling...

[V8weight]

I've been one of those that has not adjusted it. I would probably end up second guessing myself imagining strange behaviors, changing it through every combination just to arrive back to where I originally had it set. Then I would imagine it wasn't as "spot on" as before I started the fiddling...
That's pretty much what I did, word for word. :) The settings I mentioned above are just right though.

[Aronis]

The picture you posted with the V3 is just very different from the one on the website as well as shown in the few photo's posted of Part of the Installation on the Kw website.

So I was just trying to clarify. In some pages on the KW site they show the same item you photographed with the addtional cylinder on the side. The photo they have for the V3 does not have that extra piece, but they do show an item very similar to your photo on the top page listing the three types of Variants. When I choose the RS6 on the online store the photo was different. That's why I asked you!

Thanks,

Mike

[hahnmgh63]

Yea, not all KWV3 versions have the Resevoir but the RS6 version does, probably because the car is so heavy and a little tougher on the fluid so volume/cooling is a factor.

[Aronis]

Ordered my KW V3's today.

I got an email back from my RS6 dealer. He quoted a price of $729.95 to remove DRC (all parts), Install KW's, and do an Alignment. That sounds like a pretty fair price.

I was planning on DIY but overall $730 sounds fair and will save me the potential headache of a stuck bolt or warn part etc,...

Mike

(I'm holding out for TCU and ECU tuning until after my last payment LOL)

[V8weight]

Ordered my KW V3's today.

I got an email back from my RS6 dealer. He quoted a price of $729.95 to remove DRC (all parts), Install KW's, and do an Alignment. That sounds like a pretty fair price.

I was planning on DIY but overall $730 sounds fair and will save me the potential headache of a stuck bolt or warn part etc,...

Mike

(I'm holding out for TCU and ECU tuning until after my last payment LOL)
I'd say that sounds like a fair price, and like you said, it beats trying to pound out frozen pinch bolts with the car on jack stands.

[Brav]

Yea, places I have checked (independents) quote around 600 so 730 from dealer aint bad.

Hopefully my KWs arrive tomorrow! Can't wait to have a real car instead of a 450 HP boat.

[JSRS6]

I'd say that sounds like a fair price, and like you said, it beats trying to pound out frozen pinch bolts with the car on jack stands.

Yeah, if you're lucky. If you aren't lucky, you end up cutting off each end of the bolt witha sawz all, drilling a pilot hole in the center, and then drilling out the rest of the bolt.

[V8weight]

Yeah, if you're lucky. If you aren't lucky, you end up cutting off each end of the bolt witha sawz all, drilling a pilot hole in the center, and then drilling out the rest of the bolt.
Hmm, 91k miles, and they all came right out on my car. Helps that it's lived in Scottsdale, AZ all of it's life prior to coming up to this hell hole for the last few years. -15 this morning, warmed up 20 degrees to a whopping 5F.

[JSRS6]

Hmm, 91k miles, and they all came right out on my car. Helps that it's lived in Scottsdale, AZ all of it's life prior to coming up to this hell hole for the last few years. -15 this morning, warmed up 20 degrees to a whopping 5F.

Yeah, I picked mine up in Chicago. Funny thing was, the passenger side came right out.

[Aronis]

I was not that concerned over bolts being stuck because the DRC recall was done a little more than a year ago, so the bolts should not be that bad.
More concerned about those older parts which were not replaced being found to need replacement and last I checked my own garage does not have a parts department! Torque Wrench yes, Parts department no. LOL.

That BOAT point made above is so true! Each day my DRC fails more and the car is starting to get like it was back four years ago when it's DRC first died. It gets quite dicey at highway speed.

I'm very interested in seeing the ride with the new struts and springs!

I'm not sure how long it will take to get the kit. Reseller is Eurocodetuning, but they just order straight from KW who then ships directly to the buyer.

Mike

[Aronis]

10990

now the nuts and bolts.

what measurements are the correct numbers for the RS6 "A" and "B"?

Mike

[Aronis]

10993

These are the recommented settings.

Anyone use a different combination?

Mike

[V8weight]

For the fronts, i run .75 turns for compression, and 5 clicks for rebound. For the rears, I run .75 turns for compression, and 9 clicks for rebound. Without the extra click of rebound in the front, the car seems to wallow in the turns. As for the A and B height measurements, I'll have to see if I can find them on some of my old posts. It's cold outside, and I'm already settled in on the couch :) I will say that after the initial heights are set, it's worth the money to have the car corner balanced.

[V8weight]

Ok, My B measurements are 327mm in the front, and 330mm in the rear. Also, here's another thread for reference: http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php?t=18199&highlight=kw+settings

[Aronis]

Thank you very much!

Mike

[Aronis]

technical question.

Bentley manual says to tighten the bolts only with the car on the ground. I assume I can tighten finger tight, drop onto the ground and then torque up the bolts.

Question: Can all the bolts be reached easily without a lift???

I figure I can put the car on ramps to have more working space.

Mike

[JSRS6]

You assume correctly. Once you have the bolts in and the nuts on at all, you can drive onto some wheel ramps and tighten them the rest of the way. The best way of course would be to drive onto a drive on lift then tighten, but wheel ramps will work just fine.

[Aronis]

thanks!

Mike

[micdee]

technical question.
Bentley manual says to tighten the bolts only with the car on the ground. I assume I can tighten finger tight, drop onto the ground and then torque up the bolts.
Question: Can all the bolts be reached easily without a lift???
I figure I can put the car on ramps to have more working space.


First of all can I get my hands on a bentley manual?
second: which bolts are you talking about?
I am certain that which ever bolts you are talking about they have not been tightened with the wheels resting on a surface.
What could be a result when this is not done (wheels/suspension hanging in the air) ??

[JSRS6]

First of all can I get my hands on a bentley manual?
second: which bolts are you talking about?
I am certain that which ever bolts you are talking about they have not been tightened with the wheels resting on a surface.
What could be a result when this is not done (wheels/suspension hanging in the air) ??

premature wear of the bushings. If you tighten them at the angle they are resting when the suspension is fully extended while hanging, and then lower the car to the ground, the angle of the arms change, but the sleeve at the center of the bushings doesnt. So it stretches the bushing. And it will go bad a lot quicker.

[SteveKen]

The purpose of tightening everything at ride height is to not put any undue tension on the bushings.

The position of the ID of the bushings in the air versus on the ground are at different rotations, etc.

So if tightened in the air, the rubber or whatever material bushings will have constant twisting tension on them.

[micdee]

@JSRS6 and SteveKen Tnx.
Guess I have to loosen and retighten them.... but uhm first need to find a suitable lift.

[hahnmgh63]

Without a lift you could remove the front wheels and use jackstands or blocks under the ball joint area of the front lower main A-arms to load the suspension then you should have easier access at the bolts/nuts with the wheels removed.

[JSRS6]

Without a lift you could remove the front wheels and use jackstands or blocks under the ball joint area of the front lower main A-arms to load the suspension then you should have easier access at the bolts/nuts with the wheels removed.
You can try this:

You assume correctly. Once you have the bolts in and the nuts on at all, you can drive onto some wheel ramps and tighten them the rest of the way. The best way of course would be to drive onto a drive on lift then tighten, but wheel ramps will work just fine.

[Aronis]

Without a lift you could remove the front wheels and use jackstands or blocks under the ball joint area of the front lower main A-arms to load the suspension then you should have easier access at the bolts/nuts with the wheels removed.

I like this idea, so jack from the suspension bottom until it unloads the other jack at the jack point...good idea.

Mike

[Aronis]

KW kit has shipped! ETA 2/19.

Mike

[DHall1]

Mike,

After all this time you're getting the KW's! Great choice.

If my DRC ever fails and the extended warranty does not cover the replacement....I will be right there with ya.




KW kit has shipped! ETA 2/19.

Mike

[Brav]

Pat - I am in mid-install right now. Do you know how many threads you left on the shock for your ride height? Trying to set it before install. Thanks.

Nevermind.. think i found it from your post 56/57... you the man. If you have measurement A somewhere, would be a great help!

OK I see you said you were +5mm from lowest recommended setting of 300mm for front, and you said 10mm lower than the rears (from 185mm min) so am I reading it right that you had it set at 305mm front and 175mm rear? or 195mm rear?

[V8weight]

Paul - I am in mid-install right now. Do you know how many threads you left on the shock for your ride height? Trying to set it before install. Thanks.

Nevermind.. think i found it from your post 56/57... you the man. If you have measurement A somewhere, would be a great help!

OK I see you said you were +5mm from lowest recommended setting of 300mm for front, and you said 10mm lower than the rears (from 185mm min) so am I reading it right that you had it set at 305mm front and 175mm rear? or 195mm rear?
Are you talking to me? I don't remember my A measurements offhand. My car settled quite a bit since my initial install, so I know I had to crank them up a bit. I'll head out after dinner here and see if I can get a measurement for you.

[Brav]

Are you talking to me? I don't remember my A measurements offhand. My car settled quite a bit since my initial install, so I know I had to crank them up a bit. I'll head out after dinner here and see if I can get a measurement for you.

Yes Sorry Pat... Started with a P at least, I am getting delirious working on this thing all afternoon without food or beer :doh:

[V8weight]

Yes Sorry Pat... Started with a P at least, I am getting delirious working on this thing all afternoon without food or beer :doh:
Yeah, I know the feeling. My problem is when I spend all day out in the garage without food, but beer...... It's tough when you do something to the car, but can't legally drive it when it's finished :)

[Brav]

I measured factory A measurements, got 312mm for front, and 205mm for rear. 305mm is 5mm higher than min, or 7mm lower than factory settings for fronts, so that makes sense. 10mm lower than the factory 205mm in rear makes sense, at 195mm. 175mm and I think it will be pointing to the sky. This would also equate to a 7mm drop in front an 10mm drop in rear from factory, which would even out the "rake" you were talking about in your other thread you referenced.. so I dont think I need you to measure :) I will see how this works!

[V8weight]

For some reason, 305mm front, and 185mm rear rings a bell. I used to catalog my heights, but I think tossed the stuff when I decided to just corner balance the car. Dropping the A measurement doesn't directly equate to car's ride height. Because of the angle and position of the shocks on the control arm, in relation to the control arm length, the rear A measurement has to be reduced more to lower the actual height of the rear of the car.

[Aronis]

Pat and/or Brav,

When you disconnect the DRC at the junction, does any fluid leak out or are there built in CHECK valves on both sides of that connection?? Just trying to know as much as I can before I start.

I'm hoping that the KW's come with better written instructions than the PDF I downloaded, it's kind of non-specific! The instructions in the Bentley Manual are pretty good and obviously RS6/A6 specific. The kicker is that there is little or no information on the DRC components! The description and photos are of what appears to be a standard non-DRC suspension!

The KW PDF shows specific information on the DRC disconnecting points and applying the CAPS.

Another question: When you disconnected the level sensors (at the control arm) any problems reassembling it? Did you need to do any VAG-COM computer resetting? Did your headlights go Cross Eyed?

Thanks,

Mike

[JSRS6]

I am neither of them, lol, but I can tell you that there will definitely be fluid. It is under pressure. I recommend disconnecting at the valves in front of the spare tire and letting it all drain out BEFORE messing with the connections at the struts. The level sensor clips back on the same way it goes on. Nothing else is needed, unless you are doing some extreme lowering, which I doubt. Removing the piping is fairly easy. It's pretty flexible, I just bent it before a clip, broke it off, and pulled it through and repeated. Then it was all gone. :hihi:

[Aronis]

So the check valves do not work? I was hoping that what ever pressure is there would remain.

Oh well, sounds like its going to be messy. LOL...

[hahnmgh63]

In my case the checkvalves did work. Only a few drops of fluid came out from each point. Seems to be the consistency of regular hydraulic fluid. I ended up draining it all and pulling my lines anyways so no big deal.

[Aronis]

Good! I figured I'd remove the rest of the parts when the weather is a bit warmer LOL....DIY in my non-heated garage will suck...

My old house had two very nice heaters and we kept it at 55 all winter LOL...when I did any work on the car I'd crank it to 70! Nice well insulated garage. Worked great unless my wife opened a garage door to let the dog out LOL..

My current house, no heat....brrrrrrrrrr

Mike

[V8weight]

Mike, like Hahnmgh63 said, there are check valves in place at the shock connections, you'll only lose a few drops. And the level sensors are easily disconnected with one 10mm nut, and as long as you reattach them before lowering and starting the car, there is no re-adaption necessary.

[JSRS6]

Mike, like Hahnmgh63 said, there are check valves in place at the shock connections, you'll only lose a few drops. And the level sensors are easily disconnected with one 10mm nut, and as long as you reattach them before lowering and starting the car, there is no re-adaption necessary.

Now I remember, Chicago wasn't very nice to my car I guess. The fittings were stuck on the valves, so I ended up cutting before and after each one, unbolting, then removing everything. There was a "little" pressure in my case. And I have always just unclipped from the lower arm as far as the sensor. Much quicker and easier IMO.

[skribe]

Got my DRC all re-pressurized and recalibrated after my deer accident...
It almost sucks, but when the system works it works so well, the car rides and handles beautifully.
I was hell-bent on replacing it, but now I, uh, really like it. :doh:

if only it were 25mm lower in the rear and 15mm lower in the front...

[JSRS6]

Got my DRC all re-pressurized and recalibrated after my deer accident...
It almost sucks, but when the system works it works so well, the car rides and handles beautifully.
I was hell-bent on replacing it, but now I, uh, really like it. :doh:

if only it were 25mm lower in the rear and 15mm lower in the front...

Have you considered replacing the springs with h & r's?

[Brav]

Mine dripped out a bit, not a lot. But my guess was that 90% of the fluid was on the highway somewhere anyway.. I had a big puff of dust come out of one of the valves..

I ran into a snag last night trying to get the damn lower control arms off. I cant get the bolts out of the lower inners! Of course I didnt read up on anything as to how to properly do it. I dont think they need to be replaced, but I might as well do it all since I got the full 034 density line control arm kit (non-adjustable) which as of yet, I dont see how its any different from the HD one offered by Meyle?

Also I have a front left outer axle boot blown apart and left a nice mucky surprise in that region, so I am waiting for one of those to show up as well.

[JSRS6]

Have you seen the tool that Ecs is now selling to replace outer boots without removing the axle or anything? Pretty ingenious IMO.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Cv_Boot/ES1899405/

[Brav]

Have you seen the tool that Ecs is now selling to replace outer boots without removing the axle or anything? Pretty ingenious IMO.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Cv_Boot/ES1899405/

Interesting contraption! Looks like a space-age sex toy...

Unfortunately I have heard a bit of clicking during my turns, so I think the outer joint is a gonner anyway..

[skribe]

Have you considered replacing the springs with h & r's?

In fact I have. I have a set of C5 S6 sedan spec H&R's in the box, based on the S6 springs having the same weight spec but eliminating the rake, vs. the H&R RS 6 springs which lower a bit but maintain the fugly stock rake.

Kind of an experiment. Yes, I know it's harder on stock struts with lowering springs. Yes, I know that could shorten the life of my stock struts. Nobody needs to point that out, thanks.

Not going to do it till I go back to summer wheels.

[JSRS6]

In fact I have. I have a set of C5 S6 sedan spec H&R's in the box, based on the S6 springs having the same weight spec but eliminating the rake, vs. the H&R RS 6 springs which lower a bit but maintain the fugly stock rake.

Kind of an experiment. Yes, I know it's harder on stock struts with lowering springs. Yes, I know that could shorten the life of my stock struts. Nobody needs to point that out, thanks.

Not going to do it till I go back to summer wheels.

Looking forward to seeing the result!

[hahnmgh63]

I spoke with H&R a few years ago before I dumped the DRC and they told me that the RS6 springs were 1.4" shorter front & rear but of a little higher spring rate so I don't think they would be harder on the shocks/struts?

[Brav]

Anyone know how to get the lower control arm bolts out? they seem to be too long to back out all the way..

[V8weight]

Anyone know how to get the lower control arm bolts out? they seem to be too long to back out all the way..
Drop cradle.

EDIT: I should be more clear. Remove the rear cradle bolts, leave the front ones in place. You only have to lower the rear of the cradle slightly.

[Brav]

Drop cradle.

EDIT: I should be more clear. Remove the rear cradle bolts, leave the front ones in place. You only have to lower the rear of the cradle slightly.

ok ant that will give way for the front as well?

[Brav]

I love it.. now I come to find out I dont have the correct 12 point hex for the inner axle!!

[hahnmgh63]

Brav as V8weight said to get the rears out but for the front they should be back out and opposite from the bolt head there is a hole in the engine cradle that they will be able to back out into. So you can use a socket to get them loose but then you will need to either use your fingers or the open end of a wrench to back them out until they back into the engine cradle.

[hahnmgh63]

I am criminal, I should have let the secret out before. I have this tool from Dorman http://www.warehousedeals.com/Dorman-614030-HELP-Universal-Fit-CV/M/B000CIV4KA.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle#wbaCustomersReviewsWidget The Schwaben looks to be almost the same for another $30 but then you have to deal wtih and wait on ECS.

[Aronis]

nuts and bolts. Who has re-used all nuts and bolts and who has replaced them as recommended in Bentley Manual?

Vag 3287A: Detatching Guide Link from Wheel Bearing Housing: Who has done this with or without the 3287A special Tool? Where can I buy this from?

Front Brake Caliper: I have had these off before and don't recall removing a HEX bolt prior to removing the two bolts which hold the caliper on! Bentley shows this step prior to removing the Guide Link.

Thank you,

Mike

[Aronis]

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Ball-joint-U-Joint-press-set/_/N-264q?counter=3&itemIdentifier=557231_0_0_will this work?

[Aronis]

this one looks better

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__9150006-P_N3492_T%7CGRP2083____

[Brav]

Well I have a LOT to type about but no time.. I ordered the hardware kit from 034, not only were 90% of the bolts useless, so were the lower front control arms (wrong ball joint and bushings...). I reused most of the harware, out of necessity. Seems ok, car is driving GREAT, love the KWs!! More to come later about the full control arm swap, KW install, and drive shafts, etc..

[Aronis]

Oh well, I waited at home all day for a shipment due today because it required a signiture, only to finally see a posting on the FEDEX tracking site "Delivery exception: Unable to find address." That's Code for "It's late and I'm tired and going home, the customer can wait until Tuesday."

At least the US post office knows the location of the address, maybe FEDEX is going the way of the US post office. If the code above is incorrect then the code would be "I'm unable to use a GPS system to find an address." or "What me? Phone the receiver to ask for directions?"

I did pick up a universal balljoint tool kit, some new jack stands, that required Deep 22mm socket (and a shallow 22 mm socket LOL), some Liquid Wrench, and a Hydraulic Bottle Jack. I printed all the pages from the Bentley Manual. I was ready to go for the job all day Sunday.

Thanks, FedEx, have a nice long weekend off.

Mike

[Aronis]

The seller, Eurocode Tuning, replied to my request to verify with fedex the shipping address within about 33 minutes!!

He verified with Fedex that they had the correct address.

He then google my address and had no problem describing to me exactly where my house is.

He confirmed that fedex had my phone number.

I was right with my decoding.

Eurocode Tuning has excellent customer service! I do not want to mention his name without his permission.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/

Mike

[Aronis]

The parts arrived.

I have a question about the height settings.

Here's a photo:

11033

11034

POST EDITTED...

I found my answer ! D'ooh

Mike

[Brav]

I think I would start out at 310mm for fronts measurement A, and 180-185 for rear.. After my adjustments I think thats where I am at. might want to get a metric tape

[snoopra]

So what was the answer?

[Aronis]

The original equipment strut is supposed to be assembled with the coil spring in a very specific location of the top spring seat. They specify for 11 degrees of rotation (left or right for each side) and show the spring ends engaging very specific fixed points on the two seats (top and bottom). I guess the geometry of the OEM springs are such that they are Mirror Images of each other.

The KW does not appear to need to be positioned in any rotational angle (there are not stops on the bottom spring seat.)

Also, the bottom adjustable spring seat for the KW is PLASTIC???? the weight of the car and the forces produced by movement are supported by a plastic NUT? (I know there is a metal part above the plastic ring but OUCH how strong is that part?)

Mike

[Aronis]

Sorry snoopra, I had the front and rear confused because of 1. The bigger spring and 2. the extra cylinder. I figured that out LOL.

[Aronis]

I have one but it is hiding on me LOL. I used a metric 30 cm ruler to set the starting points. I went with 305 and 195 for a starting point.

[hahnmgh63]

I just guessed at a mid starting point on mine, put some barbell weights on the drivers seat and floor to equal my weight then adjusted the collars, lowered, rolled the car a few feet back and forth to scrub off any binding in the tires, re-measured and repeated. I did have a lift so lowering & raising was easy. Then after about a month or a litle more I repeated, then 6 months later I decided to raise my car another 1/4". Now after a year I'm pretty happy with my last re-do 6 months ago. I get over speedbumps without rubbing, my camber on the front is improved over my first adjustment (still wears a little extra on the inside fronts but with rotation will give pretty long life).

[Aronis]

The bentley manual shows how to take things apart fairly well, but did you find you had to remove as much of the suspension components as they show to get the struts out?

The process gets a little involved when you remove the lower guide link just before getting the bolts out of the strut/track control link. For Example it stays when separating the Guide Link from the wheel bearing housing they describe completely removing the guide link and my need to "Lower Subframe in back, IF NECESSARY."

The non-RS6 suspension (A6) is much less involved LOL!

Mike

[Brav]

Yea, to get the rear lower control arms out you will need to drop the sub frame/engine cradle. its actualy not that bad. 3 bolts just near the bushing. I assume youre talking about the front end.

[snoopra]

Sorry snoopra, I had the front and rear confused because of 1. The bigger spring and 2. the extra cylinder. I figured that out LOL.
OK, Got it!

[Aronis]

Yea, to get the rear lower control arms out you will need to drop the sub frame/engine cradle. its actualy not that bad. 3 bolts just near the bushing. I assume youre talking about the front end.

yes. that's the part I was talking about. Does not look bad but for every extrabolt I run the risk of running into that one fronzen bolt which will make the whole job a big pita... LOL

Mike

[Brav]

I dont think you will have issue with those. Came out quite easy for me, but I had impact gun. Have to use a wrench at least part of the way on the actual control arm bushing bolt.

[Aronis]

I finally had some time to look things over on the front end of the car.

1. The Plugs up top are melted or glued in but I removed them and I can access the upper strut mount bolts.

Q: who replaced with OEM parts vs some other plugging method?

2. The DRC junction at the checkvalve is a bit tricky to get a wrench on due to its location.

Q: Those who did this job, did you disconnect this fitting before or after the strut was part way out. It looks like it may be easier to get a wrench on that nut easier with the strut out.

3. After looking things over, I do not understand the need to remove the brake caliper to get the bottom link disconnected.

Q: Those who did this job, did you remove the brake caliper or not?

4. Perhaps a dum question.

Q: Has anyone tried compressing the spring with a coil compressor and then tried removing the strut without disconnecting any of the linkages? Perhaps dangerous? Just asking.

5. General thoughts on this one.

Q: Would it be safe to do the front two struts, plug the DRC, and then drive the car with the rear DRC still in place? This way I could split up the job between weekends. I figure the rear DRC would still have whatever remaining pressure and would function 'ok'.

6. Strut upper Spring Seat and Strut Mount for Front and Rear Strut Mount. Priced these, no big deal.

Q: Anyone reuse all of these, replace all, replace just the front Strut Mount (rubber, etc)

Mike

[micdee]

I only was around and helped getting the lines from under the car. So I can only answer 2, 3 and 6
In my case the lines were disconnected with the struts still in place and none of the plugs were used.
They have not removed, or replaced the calipers to remove the struts.
As this "repair" was not really calculated to be done right after the purchase, I was not keen on expanding more costs and after a check by a trusted mechanic I decided I would not replace the upper mounts (front and rear).
BUT right after I had the set in place I had my doubts and still think I should have replaced them at that moment. It would not have cost me any more for the labour as they removed and reinstalled both the mounts again.
Would I drive with only DRC on the rear. I don't think so. I'm not a technician or mechanic, but I think the DRC philosophy is the cross connection between rear and front absorber and when you close the front, the system can not work properly, so the functionality of the rear strut will not be the same. maybe no functionality at all.

That are my 2cts with my logic. But I have noticed my logic is not always the logic others can follow ;)

[Aronis]

Micdee, thanks for the feedback.

But as I am still very curious, I will end up doing the front and then take a quick ride down the street! LOL. I have learned a bit about the way the DRC is supposed to work, and the central valves have the capacity to take in the extra fluid from both shocks at the sime if the position of the car requires both to compress at the same time. So with the front plugged, the rear should react as though the front is in a neutral position.

I am ordering the strut mounts and the front upper spring seat tomorrow. That way I can pre assemble both sets of struts and springs at my leasure and save that bit of time at the time of installation.

Do you recall if it was difficult to install the spring seat and strut mount?

Mike

[Aronis]

FYI

Part Numbers:

Front Strut Mounts 4D0 412 377 F $56.55
Front Upper Spring Seat AD0 412 065 F $63.86
Rear Strut Mounts 8E0 512 121 D $ 101.97

Yes, Yes, other non OEM are cheaper... in fact the upper strut mounts for the front can be found for $7.95 each! What does Audi charge $56.55 ? I don't know....

Mike

[hahnmgh63]

There is really no need for you to purchase new upper spring seats, there just metal and can be re-used. The upper mount is the only part with the rubber bushing in it. The upper strut mount is a beautiful aluminum piece with a non-replaceable rubber bushing. What a waste.

[Brav]

Its not hard at all if you have a spring compressing tool. Even better if you have one of these..

bottom clamps in, top arms swing onto the spring, and pulls it down so you can remount the strut mount and seat.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/ckreidel/Audi%20RS6/KW%20Install/IMG00470-20110215-1831.jpg

[micdee]

There is really no need for you to purchase new upper spring seats, there just metal and can be re-used. The upper mount is the only part with the rubber bushing in it. The upper strut mount is a beautiful aluminum piece with a non-replaceable rubber bushing. What a waste.

Now I'm getting a bit confused. In another thread/post you said I better renew the upper strut mounts when I was at it. Do you now think a renewal of the mounts is a waste of money?

[hahnmgh63]

No, you should replace the upper strut mount but I was saying there is no reason to replace the upper spring seat. I'm saying that the upper strut mount is a beatiful peace of aluminum which Audi chose to dump money into the design and cost and didn't bother to design it with a replaceable bushing so you have to replace the whole thing which is kind of sad & wasteful.

[ttboost]

No, you should replace the upper strut mount but I was saying there is no reason to replace the upper spring seat. I'm saying that the upper strut mount is a beatiful peace of aluminum which Audi chose to dump money into the design and cost and didn't bother to design it with a replaceable bushing so you have to replace the whole thing which is kind of sad & wasteful.

Kind of like there torque converter...

[micdee]

No, you should replace the upper strut mount but I was saying there is no reason to replace the upper spring seat. I'm saying that the upper strut mount is a beatiful peace of aluminum which Audi chose to dump money into the design and cost and didn't bother to design it with a replaceable bushing so you have to replace the whole thing which is kind of sad & wasteful.

Tnx for the explanaition.

[Aronis]

I got the upper spring seat also, so I could assemble the strut and spring and have it all ready for installation day, and save a hour messing around with removing old part and reassembling. The extra $125 is worth it from a time standpoint.

I do have a pair of coil compressors...

Yes, the rear strut mount is a nice piece of metal with a nonreplaceable bushing, while the front strut mount (which gets assembled with the upper spring seat) is a separate part.

Mike