Power Steering Pump / Major service questions

[Brav]

Well, during my long 1900 mile impromptu road-trip across the southwest, my power steering pump gave up (somewhere near the Grand Canyon when it was -6F ). I was able to drive it home, checking fluid levels every so often, as most driving was pretty straight. Slow turns were a bit noisy and more resistance. I have to say, its the only real problem I've had in my 2 years of ownership.

First off, has anyone ever done a PS pump replacement on his own? I am pretty mechanically inclined and do most of my own light/medium maintenance (havent done a t-belt). I am trying to decide whether I can do this easily myself or if I should have someone professional do it for me. I really want to just get her running again for now. But I think if the front end has to be opened up I should do my timing belt, water pump, etc etc since I am at 130k miles now. I just dont want to have all the downtime at the moment until I get a spare car in line.

I tried searching about this but it seems that the search engine uses "or" between my search terms, not "and" giving me wayyy too much to go through.

Since I am on the topic of service, I will throw out some other questions.. I am able to find all of the timing belt and water pump parts quite cheaply though a vendor I know of, almost half the cost of Genuine. Anyone have experience with the following parts/MFGs? The Waterpump is by far the biggest savings, at around 60 bucks. I cant figure out if the below are the OEM suppliers or not.

Cabin Air Filter- Mann
Fuel Filter - Mann
Timing Belt - Conti
Idler Pulley lg - eccentric
Water Pump w Gasket - Graf
Thermostat w Gasket - Wahler

Spark Plugs- I saw the gapping thread. Are OEM plugs NGK? Also plan on having trans flush, power steering flush done. Should I be ordering all BND fluids for this? is that the consensus? Any real benefit of using these fluids on a 130k mile car? And those runing ACES, are you doing so every tank? My car is all stock. My only mod plans are MTM TCU chip after the major services, and maybe ECU/exhaust down the line.

Thanks!

[JSRS6]

I saw that you had/have a Noble as well. Do you do any work on it yourself? O/T, just wondering.

[Brav]

I saw that you had/have a Noble as well. Do you do any work on it yourself? O/T, just wondering.

Yea I do most of the work on it myself. A lot of the mods I have done in collaboration with Race Precision who is an authorized service center for them.

[V8weight]

Well, during my long 1900 mile impromptu road-trip across the southwest, my power steering pump gave up (somewhere near the Grand Canyon when it was -6F ). I was able to drive it home, checking fluid levels every so often, as most driving was pretty straight. Slow turns were a bit noisy and more resistance. I have to say, its the only real problem I've had in my 2 years of ownership.

First off, has anyone ever done a PS pump replacement on his own? I am pretty mechanically inclined and do most of my own light/medium maintenance (havent done a t-belt). I am trying to decide whether I can do this easily myself or if I should have someone professional do it for me. I really want to just get her running again for now. But I think if the front end has to be opened up I should do my timing belt, water pump, etc etc since I am at 130k miles now. I just dont want to have all the downtime at the moment until I get a spare car in line.

I tried searching about this but it seems that the search engine uses "or" between my search terms, not "and" giving me wayyy too much to go through.

Since I am on the topic of service, I will throw out some other questions.. I am able to find all of the timing belt and water pump parts quite cheaply though a vendor I know of, almost half the cost of Genuine. Anyone have experience with the following parts/MFGs? The Waterpump is by far the biggest savings, at around 60 bucks. I cant figure out if the below are the OEM suppliers or not.

Cabin Air Filter- Mann
Fuel Filter - Mann
Timing Belt - Conti
Idler Pulley lg - eccentric
Water Pump w Gasket - Graf
Thermostat w Gasket - Wahler

Spark Plugs- I saw the gapping thread. Are OEM plugs NGK? Also plan on having trans flush, power steering flush done. Should I be ordering all BND fluids for this? is that the consensus? Any real benefit of using these fluids on a 130k mile car? And those runing ACES, are you doing so every tank? My car is all stock. My only mod plans are MTM TCU chip after the major services, and maybe ECU/exhaust down the line.

Thanks!
It shows 2.7 hours to change the power steering pump, from the bottom with the lock support in place, but I think you'd have an easier time putting it in service position. As for the timing belt and maintenance components, these are the oem manufactures, or trusted brand names:
Cabin air filter - Mann
Fuel filter - Mann
Timing belt - Continental
Concentric roller - Ruville
Roller's - INA
Tensioner dampener - NTN
Tensioner lever - NTN
Water pump - Graf
Thermostat - Behr
Plugs - NGKPFR7Q, yes NGK is the oem plug.

Let me know if you decide to tackle this, I have all of the timing tools.

[Brav]

Awesome, thanks Pat. Maybe I should be doing silicon lines and MAFs as well? Any recommendation for intake air filters? Im partial to BMC if they make them..

[V8weight]

Awesome, thanks Pat. Maybe I should be doing silicon lines and MAFs as well? Any recommendation for intake air filters? Im partial to BMC if they make them..
I just run the stock filters, (sometimes Audi, sometimes Mann) and change them frequently. I don't see any reason for change in that department.

[Chung]

Interesting. I was quoted 4.8 hours for a powersteering pump replacement and $550 for the part from a local shop.

3 hours for the A/C Compressor
8 hours for the Alternator
4.8 for the P/S

I was thinking about doing my A/C Compressor, Alternator and P/S pump all at once but the labor saving I was told was minimal. Since I am near my timing belt replacement as well I was hoping everything would hold off until I do the timing belt and have a massive bill like a band aid.

[Brav]

The pump can be had for well under 300..

[DHall1]

Find another shop. IMHO you are getting hosed. Those times do overlap in a major way.

And that would also be the time to complete the timing belt.

Do it all at once.

Start shopping around for the entire quote and tell the shops you know these labor times overlap. The best quote wins.

You could almost fly Pat up there to do this in one weekend, give him some beer money and send him home on Sunday and still save 1,000 dollars.




Interesting. I was quoted 4.8 hours for a powersteering pump replacement and $550 for the part from a local shop.

3 hours for the A/C Compressor
8 hours for the Alternator
4.8 for the P/S

I was thinking about doing my A/C Compressor, Alternator and P/S pump all at once but the labor saving I was told was minimal. Since I am near my timing belt replacement as well I was hoping everything would hold off until I do the timing belt and have a massive bill like a band aid.

[Brav]

You could almost fly Pat up there to do this in one weekend, give him some beer money and send him home on Sunday and still save 1,000 dollars.

LOL maybe I will do this instead? I have a warehouse at my office to do the work, and nice hotel by my office..

[DHall1]

For that matter you have stopped in at my house on your trip in AZ. We could have done the whole job in a weekend. PS, timing belt and whatever else popped up. Pat could have just overnighted the 3 special tools. No big deal.

BTW dont you have that shop called Wicked or something over in your area? They seem to be RS6 experts and I have seen some excellent service pricing from them.


LOL maybe I will do this instead? I have a warehouse at my office to do the work, and nice hotel by my office..

[hahnmgh63]

The pump is $230 from GenuineAudiVw, it is a common ZF pump used by Audi, Porsche, & BMW. It is funny that Audi has always been very specific about their fluid and Porsche has always said Dextron for theirs? Same pump, maybe Audi uses magic steering rack seals?

[Chung]

I love this community. Thanks for the tips. I figured they had to be related (aren't they all driven by the same belt?).

[V8weight]

LOL maybe I will do this instead? I have a warehouse at my office to do the work, and nice hotel by my office..
Yep, I can be bought, with beer and free travel :).............

[Brav]

The pump is $230 from GenuineAudiVw, it is a common ZF pump used by Audi, Porsche, & BMW. It is funny that Audi has always been very specific about their fluid and Porsche has always said Dextron for theirs? Same pump, maybe Audi uses magic steering rack seals?

So If I used generic ps fluid in emergency for 1 week, will it have damaged my rack?

[Chung]

Yep, I can be bought, with beer and free travel :).............

If I had a place to work on my car I would jump on this if only for the education.

[V8weight]

So If I used generic ps fluid in emergency for 1 week, will it have damaged my rack?
No, but you will want to have it flushed out. I'm more worried about the shavings from your pump self destruction damaging your rack. I don't believe the Audi fluid and generic P/S fluid would coagulate, the oem fluid is just a mineral oil.

[DHall1]

+1 on the shavings causing a problem.

Inspect your fluid very closely. If you see shavings or metal particles in the fluid.....flush everything 3 times before putting the new pump on there. Then flush it again 100 miles after running the new pump.

It can trash the rack.


No, but you will want to have it flushed out. I'm more worried about the shavings from your pump self destruction damaging your rack. I don't believe the Audi fluid and generic P/S fluid would coagulate, the oem fluid is just a mineral oil.

[JSRS6]

+1 on the shavings causing a problem.

Inspect your fluid very closely. If you see shavings or metal particles in the fluid.....flush everything 3 times before putting the new pump on there. Then flush it again 100 miles after running the new pump.

It can trash the rack.

And NOBODY wants a trashy "rack" ;-)

[DHall1]

We are here for ya.

I enjoy these campfire talks. Here is a pic. Can you name all the components on your list. Do you think the labor times overlap now? This is a pure and simple gravy train job that the shop wants to stick you with over 30hrs of labor by the time they tack on the timing belt labor. Highway robbery just like the back door FED 2.5 trillion handout to foreign banks.





http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a476/drh11/Thermostatdiy.jpg
I love this community. Thanks for the tips. I figured they had to be related (aren't they all driven by the same belt?).

[MaxRS6]

...Highway robbery just like the back door FED 2.5 trillion handout to foreign banks.

+1- Dollar valuation and currency markets anyone??? You crack me up Dhall aka

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:M6FJIBr0FRx0aM:http://tanaya.net/BullDog/mean_bulldog_collar_tattoo.png&t=1

[TozoM8]

The pump is $230 from GenuineAudiVw, it is a common ZF pump used by Audi, Porsche, & BMW. It is funny that Audi has always been very specific about their fluid and Porsche has always said Dextron for theirs? Same pump, maybe Audi uses magic steering rack seals?
The steering rack is ZF also.

[Chung]

I know the answer to one, can guess for the other but no clue where the A/C Compressor is. What is odd is the shop is a pretty well respected shop in the community.

10733

[DHall1]

Just look at the pulleys in the picture. AC, PS and Alt are all there. Give me a break the labor does not overlap. Once the lock support is open its open season on each component. bing, bang and boom. Done


I know the answer to one, can guess for the other but no clue where the A/C Compressor is. What is odd is the shop is a pretty well respected shop in the community.

10733

http://www.rs6.com/images/misc/pencil.png

[DHall1]

Did you get my email yesterday? Did I miss anything? Why on earth is nobody talking about it? Oh but wait, the new folks are in town and we must do something about entitlements. Wait, you mean the money that was taken from me for 35 years now you say its a entitlement? Funny how that works out. Steal from me for 35 years telling me it will pay off later....then when later comes you call it a entitlement. gotcha.


+1- Dollar valuation and currency markets anyone??? You crack me up Dhall aka

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:M6FJIBr0FRx0aM:http://tanaya.net/BullDog/mean_bulldog_collar_tattoo.png&t=1

[hahnmgh63]

The power steering pump is on the left side of the car. I think you could do it from underneath but you would have to unbolt the A/C compressor and lower it a little (the A/C lines look to have enough slack in them to do this) to get at the Power steering pump as it is right on top of the A/C compressor. It is the one with the big aluminum pulley in DHall1's pic above.

[Brav]

Last night I did something different. I filled the PS reservoir while the engine was on. Its clear there is a more significant leak now, as it was very low and thrashing about. Filled i to the top with fluid while on, and watched it fizz and bubble and squeal. Still noisy, but was much easier to turn at low speed now. After about 8 miles of driving, all went silent. It was like I never had the problem! Vanished! silky smooth steering (as silky as it was before anyway) and no noise. Could it have been that it was just simply very low? I filled it before leaving on my trip, but when cold.. I dont get it. I also topped it off while on my road trip, again when about 10 degrees out. But this is counter to logic.. hot fluid should take up more space.. therefore taking more fluid while cold. Strange. Well, I still plan on replacing the unit but at least I can drive it for a few days much easier until I can put her up.

Now I just have to decide if replacing the AC compressor is warranted.. its a summer problem for me. It blows very icy cold when under say 78F. But once the car sits a while when hot or temps go over 80, it barely gets cold. It seems that its capable of ice cold but something trips it up when it gets hot. Could it be a bad compressor, or some other HVAC control problem? Its not an issue now but if it will save a lot on labor, i will consider doing it now.

I think I can tackle this whole timing belt thing on my own. The question is do I do it in the comfort of my warehouse with no lift where I have a lot of time, or where I would have to finish in one day using a friends lift?

[MaxRS6]

... The question is do I do it in the comfort of my warehouse with no lift where I have a lot of time, or where I would have to finish in one day using a friends lift?

I place odds that once you open it up, you will find additional parts (possibly/probably not readily available) you want/need to replace. The one day lift budget could be problematic.

Less than .03 worth

[Brav]

I place odds that once you open it up, you will find additional parts (possibly/probably not readily available) you want/need to replace. The one day lift budget could be problematic.

Less than .03 worth

Quite true. Im taking it to a lift to pull belly pan off to inspect for leaks and whatever else to prep my parts as best I can.

[V8weight]

Quite true. Im taking it to a lift to pull belly pan off to inspect for leaks and whatever else to prep my parts as best I can.
I would put money on a substantial leak at the lower power steering cooler hose connection, in the area circled in red (sorry , I don't have any good close up pictures).
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/006-12-1.jpg

[Brav]

I would put money on a substantial leak at the lower power steering cooler hose connection.

Great, will check that out.

[Brav]

Ordered full BND Fluids :)

[DHall1]

BTW, have you had the A/C system leak checked and filled? It sounds like the symptoms could be low freon level. Just have it checked before just putting a new compressor on the car. .02c

[Brav]

BTW, have you had the A/C system leak checked and filled? It sounds like the symptoms could be low freon level. Just have it checked before just putting a new compressor on the car. .02c

I did at the end of last summer. Evac and fill. At first not much difference, then seemed to deminish, without any consistency.

I actually decided to let the guys at Raven Motorsports which is not far from me to do most of the more difficult work. They are the ones building the 6 speed manual conversion RS6, and seem to be pretty knowledgeable and passionate about Audi, and specifically the RS6. Since I already bought all the parts, they quoted an extremely reasonable price to do the work, including timing/water pump, trans flush, brake flush, coolant flush, ps flush.. everything. Less downtime for me. I think the cost of all my parts and fluids will exceed the labor.. That will be a first. I think while I have her in the air, I should do the MTM TCU tune as well. I'll do the plugs, air filters, rotors and pads myself. Just hoping that they dont find much else wrong with her! so far no check engine lights with ownership.. (knocking on all wood in the office).

[Chung]

I am not sure what the general consensus is on replacing alternators as a preventative measure but you might consider replacing that as well. When I was researching the car I found there were quite a few alternators that failed when the car was 85k+ miles (all anecdotal data). It is one of those things that will leave you stranded and who knows if the stealership will have one in stock.