FMU Intake, group Buy

[speedtrapped]

I am not sure if Erik would allow this, But I have been speaking to Andrew @FMU about the air intake system they custom fab. He offerred a group buy price of $1100.00 if we can get 5 buyers together. if not a one on one purchase is $1400-1500.00. Kits includes:
-Tubing
-Mass Airflow (MAF) housings
-Mounts
-BMC Carbon Fiber cans (filters are inside the cans)
Our intake is designed to fit up to the stock airfoils.
I for one would def buy it, any other takers? Palette?:hahahehe:

[V8weight]

Does this system eliminate the lower MAF sensor seals and press fit design with hoses and clamps? This would eliminate a major un-metered air leak on our cars. If so, intriguing, if not, pass.

[PALETTE]

yup I'm in if you can tell me or post some more info, Images, as well as data-dyno sheet

[speedtrapped]

hmmm, Pat Andrew said he would reply to this thread, add to post and pics as well. His email is
andrew@fluidmotorunion.com (andrew@fluidmotorunion.com)

[speedtrapped]

Pat, Andrew handles blogs, and photo's, he just wrote me that he is getting technical data, as well as fitment, and better pics w/in 1/2 hour or so.

[speedtrapped]

Pat, wouldnt a big unmetered air leak screw the idle up badly? Or do u mean that an eventuality removing and replacing overtime, age etc...

[fluidmotorunion]

Does this system eliminate the lower MAF sensor seals and press fit design with hoses and clamps? This would eliminate a major un-metered air leak on our cars. If so, intriguing, if not, pass.

The system does not utilize a hose and clamp design; instead, we retain the stock design of a direct press fit. In terms of air leaks, we definitely noticed this when disassembling the stock intake setup, and we made sure that our press fit design was a much better seal than stock. With intakes, we always take into account the problems of the stock box and try our best to reduce or remove those issues.


yup I'm in if you can tell me or post some more info, Images, as well as data-dyno sheet

We didn't run a dyno for the intake on our project RS6, mostly because the airbox was built in conjunction with other parts, and our fabrication side wasn't quite ready for mass production of parts yet, so we didn't really think of things like step-by-step dyno charts and graphs. From the information gathered during the build, though, the stock airbox becomes a very restrictive part of the system around 550 crank horsepower or so. Our custom-fabricated intake was designed with these higher-horsepower builds in mind, so there's a definite increase in airflow over stock, and the increased airflow will obviously produce gains, we just don't have an exact number down to the decimal.

If one person with access to a dyno would like to become a test mule of sorts, we'd be willing to sell him or her one intake setup at group buy cost minus 50-100 dollars, in order to install it and post their charts/graphs to the forum, to ease the mind of those perched on the purchasing fence. We're not here to sell you a product that we ourselves wouldn't stand behind; we believe in only the best, and we want everybody to be as happy with their purchases as we are.

We would love to do the dyno today ourselves, but this RS6 is so far into the build (and we're still working on the oil and trans coolers) that we can't return everything to stock and run the dyno to get numbers. And sadly, Chicago doesn't have several dozen stock RS6s lying around for this purpose, either.

I'm grabbing fresh pictures off the camera right now, and I'll post them up in just a minute.

[yokust]

Well my first question is what did the MAF readings change to from adding a larger ID pipe to the equation.

The stock MAF is only about 2.75" ID, so when increasing the pipe ID to almost a full 3" like seen in pictures you are going to drop the MAF g/s readings.

Which dropping the MAF readings is most likely needed when adding bigger turbos to cars, to prevent the MAF from getting above 4.6v on the signal.

But when keeping stock turbos, this will effect drivability and tuning

But otherwise, I like the design and use of the enclosed filters

[fluidmotorunion]

After some more conferring with one of our engineers who oversaw the R&D for the RS6 intake, they did a lot of thinking and devising when it came to figuring out if or how to utilize a hose clamp design. According to him, the way that the tube fits into the turbo, there's almost no good way to fit a clamp on it. We'd have to awkwardly fit a custom coupler in there as well to make a clamp actually feasible.

Going off what speedtrapped said about the air leak causing problems, any air leak would trigger a fault with the mass air flow sensor, even with the stock design. Our design doesn't throw any faults, so the air leak issue doesn't seem to be an issue at all, even without using a clamp design.

Here's some more pictures from the top of the engine bay, taken just a little while ago. Sorry about the size, but I don't want them too small so things get obscured. You can see the MAF housing, the tubing, the cans and the mounts:

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/rs6_intake1.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/rs6_intake2.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/rs6_intake3.jpg

[PALETTE]

looks great guys!

I would be willing to hammer a deal out to get this done

[fluidmotorunion]

Well my first question is what did the MAF readings change to from adding a larger ID pipe to the equation.

The stock MAF is only about 2.75" ID, so when increasing the pipe ID to almost a full 3" like seen in pictures you are going to drop the MAF g/s readings.

Which dropping the MAF readings is most likely needed when adding bigger turbos to cars, to prevent the MAF from getting above 4.6v on the signal.

But when keeping stock turbos, this will effect drivability and tuning

But otherwise, I like the design and use of the enclosed filters

The ID of the MAF section remains stock. The tubing in the other sections is of a larger diameter, but the section in which the MAF is contained remains at ~2.75", like you said. This way, the MAF doesn't freak out, and you can slap this intake on without requiring an additional tune. Airflow is still increased, but the readings won't start getting screwy.

[speedtrapped]

I'm in on group buy, 3 more to go

[yokust]

The ID of the MAF section remains stock. The tubing in the other sections is of a larger diameter, but the section in which the MAF is contained remains at ~2.75", like you said. This way, the MAF doesn't freak out, and you can slap this intake on without requiring an additional tune. Airflow is still increased, but the readings won't start getting screwy.

Do you have a picture of how you step up the intake at the original MAF housings, since its a 2.7" ID at the MAF?

[fluidmotorunion]

Do you have a picture of how you step up the intake at the original MAF housings, since its a 2.7" ID at the MAF?

The pipe remains at 2.75" from the MAF all the way to the manifold that connects to the turbo. Since the ID of the piping continues to decrease all the way to the turbo, to step it back up would be basically pointless. Even though the ID of our piping is exactly similar to OEM, and utilizes the OEM manifolds, if we were to try to connect these specific airboxes to the OEM MAF piping, we'd hit the hood and run into fitment issues like crazy. So as a result, to get the airflow to the levels we wanted with the airboxes we deemed best for the given application, we had to fab up our own piping of the same ID.

[DHall1]

Looks nice. The pics help a great deal.

I like the idea of keeping the tubing size the same at the MAFs. This is a must.

[speedtrapped]

I imagine it must help w/ heat soak a little no?.....Does this mean ur a buyer dave?:hahahehe:

[yokust]

The pipe remains at 2.75" from the MAF all the way to the manifold that connects to the turbo. Since the ID of the piping continues to decrease all the way to the turbo, to step it back up would be basically pointless. Even though the ID of our piping is exactly similar to OEM, and utilizes the OEM manifolds, if we were to try to connect these specific airboxes to the OEM MAF piping, we'd hit the hood and run into fitment issues like crazy. So as a result, to get the airflow to the levels we wanted with the airboxes we deemed best for the given application, we had to fab up our own piping of the same ID.

Not sure if you got what I meant.

I understand that the piping is 2.75" all the way, which is good.

But the OD of that oem MAF is 3.25", So how do you step the pipe back up to that to get a good seal on the oring in the stock MAF manifold/housing whatever you want to call it

[fluidmotorunion]

Not sure if you got what I meant.

I understand that the piping is 2.75" all the way, which is good.

But the OD of that oem MAF is 3.25", So how do you step the pipe back up to that to get a good seal on the oring in the stock MAF manifold/housing whatever you want to call it

Sorry about the confusion.

We use an aluminum sleeve that tapers from the 3.25" to the 2.75".

[PALETTE]

so what are we up to now for buyers?

Mike AKA TTBOOST you in?

[speedtrapped]

so what are we up to now for buyers?

Mike AKA TTBOOST you in?
Looks like just 2 so far

[covertw12]

I may be in - will confirm next week. I'm waiting to see what's going to take priority to get my car to the next level once we get the dyno done and logs pulled..... new tune, fueling or meth..... or more air !

nicely done pieces for sure. Do we have a timeframe for delivery ?

Cheers~

[speedtrapped]

Erich, i think Andrew from FMU said they have the materials for 5, when we get to the # they will make, but Andrew best to answer that question.
Stephen


Btw the rims look good with the pirelli winters.....small, but snow traction

[fluidmotorunion]

Hey all, just got back online after what turned out to be a long, busy weekend.

The BMCs come from Italy, and with Christmas coming up, they might take a fair amount of time to ship (a month or less). We're sending the company an e-mail right now to get a proper time estimate. Otherwise, everything else from the intakes can be procured and put together by us with relative ease. So it all really boils down to the shipping of the carbon fiber cans.

And going off what Stephen said, yes, we won't begin production of the intake until we've got 5 definite members of the group buy. Deposits can be talked about and handled once we've reached that magic number, so for now we're just keeping our fingers crossed that 5 out of 999 RS6 owners will be willing to have a handmade FMU product under their hood.

[PALETTE]

Well i'm still in for this.

[speedtrapped]

Ditto, Erich ?.....

[fluidmotorunion]

Good to hear there's still support being drummed up! I'll keep you guys updated on anything that happens in relation to this, and I hope to keep getting the "somebody posted in this thread" e-mail!

[ttboost]

I might be interested... gotta at least flash first...been a busy couple of weeks...

[speedtrapped]

Sounds like a possible 4 if ttboost and Erich jump in

[tidus888]

will this intake give us the nice Turbo Sound?

[JSRS6]

You should hear more spool up, if that's what you mean.

[ttboost]

I wouldn't think you could hear the dinky turbos!!!

[PALETTE]

Well once your done with those big bad boys you will

[covertw12]

I'm in - and willing to be the Dyno test case.......

Now about that catch can.......

[speedtrapped]

nice erich....yeah i asked Andrew about the catch can, easy fab...3 solid,,,,,,chugga,chugga

[Brav]

it might help to spray that metal heat-hog with some heat-reflecting/resistant coating? Lizard Skin? I get tired of massive heatsoak.. anything would help I'd guess. the difference in power with my car from 60 deg to 80 is nuts.

[fluidmotorunion]

So this is where we're at, from what I see:

Definitely In:
-speedtrapped
-palette
-covertw12 (interested in being the test mule)

On the Fence:
-ttboost

...After checking up on our source for the cans in Italy, shipping could take anywhere from "1-3 weeks." Which, you know, is a great estimate. Very narrowly defined, I'd say. But while we wait for the cans, we can still make the rest of the intake, so the turnaround won't hopefully be too long.

Our head engineer and fabricator are going to be back from Qatar by Friday, so I should be able to chat them up about more specifics with the catch can, too, and I'll relay those when I can (perhaps in its own dedicated post).

In the meantime, like usual, shoot me any questions either on here or by e-mail (andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com). Speedtrapped can vouch for my relatively prompt replies.

[speedtrapped]

Andrew -just to relocate the MAF's alone compels to be a buyer......another thread

[ttboost]

Does this kit relocate the MAF's? I thought they were the ame MAF's, in the same spot, with the same 'sealing" method? Or was the question, CAN we relocate them?

[speedtrapped]

ttboost look at pic on 1st page

[ttboost]

I saw the pics, but not having had my airbox off yet, I wasn't sure if that new aluminum hat secured the MAF's down or there was another "clamping" device doing it?

[speedtrapped]

pat had inquired about the clamping as well, I think the tubing is sealed same way into inlets as it is currently, and the bolts that come off the arms attach to manifold to hold it in place. My comment was related to taking the connectors(weak point) away from more heat and not wedging them into place....currently an issue with my drivers side maf and it is falling apart

[ttboost]

...like making some kind of 90deg boot to hold MAF's, vs them standing up behind?

[speedtrapped]

looks like it, Andrew would be better resource for the question

[yokust]

10673

There is the picture if the inlets out of the car from there site

[fluidmotorunion]

The MAFs are relocated, but only very slightly. We moved it to a straighter section of pipe (with the same sealing method) to cut down on turbulence at the sensor. It doesn't move it so far away that the wires won't reach or will be very stretched.

[fluidmotorunion]

Stephencl had a couple good questions, so I figured I would repost them here, just in case anybody else has been thinking the same thing.

Q: Will the stock carbon engine covers fit back on with the FMU intake?
A: We haven't tried, and the owner has the covers, so we don't have access to them. But after some quick measuring and theorycrafting, we have a long and short answer. Short answer: No. Long answer: Perhaps with some modification to the engine cover itself, you might be able to, but we can't say that it will fit after you mod it.

Q: Does anything else need to be replaced/relocated during the FMU intake install?
A: Nope. Take the old one out, put the new one in. It's about as plug-and-play as an intake can get.

[tidus888]

ok... im in for this!

LOL maybe u can group ship me and palette's order!

both in toronto!

[speedtrapped]

Boooyaah 1 more!

[fluidmotorunion]

Sweet! Just one more to go!

[speedtrapped]

i think we have 5 !!!!!

[speedtrapped]

1)speedtrapped
2)palette
3)covertw12
4)tidus888
5)terrytcl

possible TTboost?
we have 5 pls everyone confirm so Andrew can give us deposit instructions

[fluidmotorunion]

Just to give you guys some advanced notice on the group buy-

We won't be requiring deposits until we start production, and with shipping for the cans, there's no need to whip out the checkbooks *just* yet.

Our fab department's got some downtime so we've been constantly tinkering with the intake design, trying to make it ride that line between performance and ease of installation.

We just want to make sure all 5 people are still in, so we can go ahead with ordering the cans and everything.

[speedtrapped]

In.......

[covertw12]

In.......

[10SecS4]

I'd be very careful running this intake on an RS6 without a custom tune guys.

[speedtrapped]

customized to the increased airflow I assume?

[fluidmotorunion]

I, like Speedtrapped, would like to hear your reasoning.

It makes sense to be wary of increased airflow to the engine, but to only say "be very careful" without providing any extra meat-and-potatoes to your argument seems a little off-putting.

[DHall1]

+1

There is nothing wrong with Marc making this statement. I would back it up by saying this.

Show me the Vag com data logs of a RS6 before and after this intake modification.

Now, I understand that FMU has copied the air inlet diameter of the MAF sensor location and everything should be the same. But, there is nothing wrong with asking the above question and telling owners to be careful.

I do not have an opinion one way or the other and I really dont care if this vendor promotes this product on the forum. It looks nice and I think the design should work without a hitch. But only the data logs will tell the final story. I dont see a need for the change but I dont go around looking to ban the vendor. Its a cool little product and if it copies the MAF reading without fault then what is the harm.


I'd be very careful running this intake on an RS6 without a custom tune guys.

[skribe]

Plenty have run the apikol and dahlback open filter-element intakes without problems. Yokust? You out there?

Would the FMU intake really increase flow to a point that it would confound the ECU? My guess would be no.

Hey Marc, will anybody ever be able to buy your tune from the baytires guy or otherwise?

[fluidmotorunion]

+1

There is nothing wrong with Marc making this statement. I would back it up by saying this.

Show me the Vag com data logs of a RS6 before and after this intake modification.

Now, I understand that FMU has copied the air inlet diameter of the MAF sensor location and everything should be the same. But, there is nothing wrong with asking the above question and telling owners to be careful.

I do not have an opinion one way or the other and I really dont care if this vendor promotes this product on the forum. It looks nice and I think the design should work without a hitch. But only the data logs will tell the final story. I dont see a need for the change but I dont go around looking to ban the vendor. Its a cool little product and if it copies the MAF reading without fault then what is the harm.

I totally agree that asking the question is good. It's always good to have concerns and to voice them; that way, everything can at least attempt to be answered to assuage whatever fears are present. I was just hoping for a more specific concern, so I could sit down with the engineers and see what they thought about it. I'm all for clarifying everything as much as I can, hence my desire for more "meat and potatoes."

Sadly, we don't have data logs available for the intake modification. While we ARE still tweaking the design, we didn't plan for this intake to be any more than a one-off when it started, so we didn't get incredibly scientific with it. In retrospect, yes, we should have, and we probably will in the future as well, just to make sure.

With the MAF housings remaining stock, the MAF shouldn't be reading anything out of the ordinary; yes, airflow is increased, but the sensor will pick it up and adjust fuel + timing appropriately.

With any modification you've got to be careful; you're adding to the vehicle in a way that the engineers who designed it weren't thinking about. Any sort of change like that should require good though and potential hesitation. Like I said, any more questions can be relayed directly to me, and I'll do my best to answer them promptly.

Your direct line to me is my e-mail address: andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com

[DHall1]

You have it covered and I can see your logic. This is also why I dont have a problem with this upgrade, product or your efforts.

If the intake allows more airflow into the engine. Great.

As long as the air flow is metered properly by the MAF. Great.

A VagCom data log of an RS6 before and after would just be icing on the cake. We are looking for A/F ratio, timing maps ect before and after the intake upgrade. If these generally stay the same and air flow metering increase. Then winner winner.


I totally agree that asking the question is good. It's always good to have concerns and to voice them; that way, everything can at least attempt to be answered to assuage whatever fears are present. I was just hoping for a more specific concern, so I could sit down with the engineers and see what they thought about it. I'm all for clarifying everything as much as I can, hence my desire for more "meat and potatoes."

Sadly, we don't have data logs available for the intake modification. While we ARE still tweaking the design, we didn't plan for this intake to be any more than a one-off when it started, so we didn't get incredibly scientific with it. In retrospect, yes, we should have, and we probably will in the future as well, just to make sure.

With the MAF housings remaining stock, the MAF shouldn't be reading anything out of the ordinary; yes, airflow is increased, but the sensor will pick it up and adjust fuel + timing appropriately.

With any modification you've got to be careful; you're adding to the vehicle in a way that the engineers who designed it weren't thinking about. Any sort of change like that should require good though and potential hesitation. Like I said, any more questions can be relayed directly to me, and I'll do my best to answer them promptly.

Your direct line to me is my e-mail address: andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com

[covertw12]

I'm more then willing to be the guinea pig..... Perhaps Elevens can help me pull the logs if USP can't ( I think he has a VagCom)..... and I'll also try to Dyno before and after....

That said my old car with the Dahlback setup had a great intake noise that alone would be worth it.... I'm sure it added 50HP or better !

E

[speedtrapped]

Erich, I can GP as well, I am meeting w/ Josh and company on 1/15 in VA for a dyno day, everyone see's my mods, so I can get the 'baseline' then post after maybe UPL(dyno's around me suck)

[PALETTE]

I'm still in for the intake , like everything you need to have a Tune done as Airflow and Temps will change as well as fueling requirements.
If everyone backs out Andrew i'm still in. My tuner will support the mods.

[speedtrapped]

Dos mas, ya know who u are...:hey:

[fluidmotorunion]

I'm more then willing to be the guinea pig..... Perhaps Elevens can help me pull the logs if USP can't ( I think he has a VagCom)..... and I'll also try to Dyno before and after....

That said my old car with the Dahlback setup had a great intake noise that alone would be worth it.... I'm sure it added 50HP or better !

E

We'd love to have a 'guinea pig' do a baseline dyno and one with our intake. Between you and speedtrapped, hopefully we can get some good averages of the gains to expect with the intake!


I'm still in for the intake , like everything you need to have a Tune done as Airflow and Temps will change as well as fueling requirements.
If everyone backs out Andrew i'm still in. My tuner will support the mods.

Sounds good, Palette.

I'm checking the forum plenty of times per day, so as soon as I see that all 5 are still on board, I'll get the wheels rolling ASAP.

[terrytcl]

i'm good to be a guinea pig... and i'm local
:)

i'm in too. this is just an easier solution for an intake system.

[speedtrapped]

tidus888 still in?

[fluidmotorunion]

Just a little update for you guys. The head engineer came up with a rendering to share with you guys. He's made a couple design tweaks from the original FMU intake design (for more efficient airflow, ease of installation and overall aesthetic quality), but it's not like the price or shipping size is going to change.

We're in the process of talking with our carbon fiber can supplier, but Italy takes like 10 week-long holidays a year, so we're hoping that this is one of those weeks they actually choose to work.

Here's one of the rendered shots. Colors and textures are subject to change, natch (we actually want it done in all bright pink with purple leopard print overlays).

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/thirsty_5.jpg

[speedtrapped]

that looks great Andrew, given now a unified housing for both inlet tubes, will it still bolt on? I assume yes....are we at 5?

[PALETTE]

Just a little update for you guys. The head engineer came up with a rendering to share with you guys. He's made a couple design tweaks from the original FMU intake design (for more efficient airflow, ease of installation and overall aesthetic quality), but it's not like the price or shipping size is going to change.

We're in the process of talking with our carbon fiber can supplier, but Italy takes like 10 week-long holidays a year, so we're hoping that this is one of those weeks they actually choose to work.

Here's one of the rendered shots. Colors and textures are subject to change, natch (we actually want it done in all bright pink with purple leopard print overlays).



I like the Design, Looks like it will flow good.

Italy takes 8 weeks off not 10 the other 2 WE are catching up on Jersey shore, Soprano reruns, And now Housewifes of New Jersey ! So get it straight! LOL

As for the Pink touch i think TTBOOST was going to ask for that for his so i guess its Standard...

[ttboost]

I'm going to resist the urge...

[fluidmotorunion]

that looks great Andrew, given now a unified housing for both inlet tubes, will it still bolt on? I assume yes....are we at 5?

Yep, it will still bolt on.


I like the Design, Looks like it will flow good.

Italy takes 8 weeks off not 10 the other 2 WE are catching up on Jersey shore, Soprano reruns, And now Housewifes of New Jersey ! So get it straight! LOL

As for the Pink touch i think TTBOOST was going to ask for that for his so i guess its Standard...

At least you're Canadian, Palette. We actually have to admit that we live in the same country as the folks from Jersey Shore. Speedtrapped gives me hope that all of NJ isn't that...unique...though.

[speedtrapped]

poor jersey always stereotyped.....Its pretty milk toast where i live, and its at the shore.....but about 40 miles north of seaside heights, home of snooki &co.

[tidus888]

my bad.. i was in vegas!! i'm still in!

[fluidmotorunion]

Well, now that all 5 of you guys are still in for this, I can let the owners know and we can start movin' on this.

For now, we aren't requiring deposits, but as production moves closer to completion, we will let you know what to do and how to do it.

In the meantime, let's keep this thread open for any questions/comments/concerns or, coming from our side, updates on the build.

[fluidmotorunion]

Alrighty all, we tweaked the design just a bit to make certain design constraints less...well...constrainy.

We wanted to secure the cans to make sure that rattle wasnt an issue. Originally, we planned to use a set of straps, but that would mess with the beauty of the carbon fiber cans, so we went with another route, opting to run one end of the can through this metal plate, securing the can from excess movements. Those two plates you see are bolted onto the same spot that your ignition coil packs use, all it takes is unscrewing what's already there, putting the plates on, and putting it all back together.

We'd like to think that this design looks one hell of a lot better than the previous design. After all, with that gorgeous carbon fiber engine cover no longer usable (the intake's size doesn't let that happen with either design), we wanted to make sure that our kit was something that would enhance the look of the engine bay. And we think it does, especially with the catch can.

In regards to the catch can fittings, we just welded the A/N fitting into the pipe, so if you plan on having a catch can installed (be it a one-off from us, from somebody else, or from your own two hands), let us know and we'll weld one in for you during production, if you so choose.

The design's almost finalized; we have to do some on-road testing and maybe one or two more tweaks (and some powdercoating), but what you see here is the overall look of what you'll be receiving!

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/rs6_intake_beta1.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/rs6_intake_beta2.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/rs6_intake_beta3.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/rs6_intake_beta4.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/rs6_intake_beta5.jpg

[PALETTE]

Thought i would ask real quick.Whats the deal with the larger transcooler? Are they going to be a Custom item? More info??

[speedtrapped]

Andrew looks great, it looks like you guys have changed the MAF location back to stock? Also I did notice silicone hose on the turbo inlets? hose and clamp design?

[fluidmotorunion]

Thought i would ask real quick.Whats the deal with the larger transcooler? Are they going to be a Custom item? More info??

For now, our trans cooler remains one-off. As we've been fooling with the new FPR (we just installed it and the A/N fittings are being little bastards) and redesigning the intake, we haven't had time to test it, get accurate numbers and consider a push towards manufacturing. As soon as it does, though, we'll keep you guys updated. Between the catch can and the trans cooler, we've got a lot of interesting things to consider.


Andrew looks great, it looks like you guys have changed the MAF location back to stock? Also I did notice silicone hose on the turbo inlets? hose and clamp design?

Yep, MAF location is just above the turbo inlets. And yes, you do spy silicone hose on the turbo inlets. They will be joined by a hose and clamp design, much to the happiness of all that ballyhoo that went down after we announced the original design. And we're going to include all the clamps and silicone you'll need to install it.

[terrytcl]

nice!

ready to buy!

as for the oil catch can system, i have a question -

it seems that you are tapping the line coming off of each of the valve covers, which is where most vehicles would have a catch can being tapped into... BUT...
the pcv is located inline with the dual valves... isn't that line going back to the inlet pipes to the turbos?
if not, where do those lines go to?

i have the entire front end of my rs6 apart. :) still hard to find where tubing go and lines go. definitely not easy to trace end to end connections with this vehicle.

[terrytcl]

what's the purpose of those dual valves too?

[speedtrapped]

silicone hose on inlet is huge andrew, as per Pat the push down connection between air housing and inlet is susceptible to leaks(I learned the hard way) Turns out the lean/rich codes post new O2's came back, well just the lean, mechanic took it all apart and discovered that my aftermkt turbo guage line(silicone 1/4"OD) was hanging up the MAF/inlet connection just enough to allow air in....oh well new O2's and MAF's, dbl btw, I did the gauge mod same exact timei did the ACE's, sorry BND....I know off topic, point is, the new design will be big improvement Andrew

[fluidmotorunion]

nice!

ready to buy!

as for the oil catch can system, i have a question -

it seems that you are tapping the line coming off of each of the valve covers, which is where most vehicles would have a catch can being tapped into... BUT...
the pcv is located inline with the dual valves... isn't that line going back to the inlet pipes to the turbos?
if not, where do those lines go to?

i have the entire front end of my rs6 apart. :) still hard to find where tubing go and lines go. definitely not easy to trace end to end connections with this vehicle.

We're not too sure what you're getting at, Terry, especially at the "pcv is located inline with the dual valves" part. If you could clarify, we'd love to answer the question for ya.

[terrytcl]

will try my best.

if you look on page 16 of the RS6 study guide, it'll show the routing of the crankcase breather system... showing where the pcv is and the locations of the intake manifold and crankcase connections.

so, if you're trying to prevent oil from entering the intake system, which is pretty much where the outlet of the pressure limiting valves (dual valves) go to.... wouldn't you want to connect your oil catch can there to be inline with the line going back to the inlet pipes of the turbos?

just wondering... because i've been contemplating this a lot and trying to figure out when would be the best time to add an oil catch can.

thanks

[fluidmotorunion]

Okay guys, quick little update on the intakes.

We ordered the carbon fiber cans, but they're coming from Italy and they gave us about a 4-week length of time for shipping. So, in that downtime, we're going to start cutting out the parts and start welding to get everything ready for the arrival of the filter cans.

Hope you're all doing well! Any more updates or pictures will end up in this thread!

[speedtrapped]

sounds great Andrew, looking forward to it.

[fluidmotorunion]

Okay guys, here's the skinny on some information regarding deposits, shipping, etc.

For the deposits: We are asking for a deposit of $150 (USD, for all you folks from the Great White North) from each of the 5 intake recipients. You can pay by check, cash (although putting money in envelopes is a little risky), or carrier pigeon, whichever method you prefer. Checks made of bubblegum will, sadly, not be accepted, despite how much I love bubblegum. Upon receiving all five deposit checks, we'll give you guys a very good ballpark of when to expect the packages. I'll be providing updates on the building process in the meantime, through this thread.

Regarding shipping: These things are heading out to folks in two different countries. As a result of this, we're going to say that shipping will depend on the location of the individual, as opposed to charging one single flat rate for shipping. If you're close to Chicago, know somebody who is, etc., feel free to come pick it up directly from us when it's done. If two of you live close together (I think Palette and somebody else brought this up), we'd be willing to ship both intakes in a single box to a single location, as well. We want to make this as easy for you as possible.

Some of the cans are en route from Italy right now, and we're just about to order the rest. While they're in the air (or on the boat, whatever), we will start cutting out all the pieces for the intake and begin the bending/welding, so that way when the cans arrive, we can put everything together, check it, and ship it as fast as our hands can muster. [edit]: We're actually starting to cut the aluminum pieces for the intake today.

In terms of securing deposits, I'd like each of the five people in the group buy to send me an e-mail at my Fluid address (andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com), so I know you're still in, and to ask you a series of pointless trivia questions (not really).

[fluidmotorunion]

Since I can't edit this post for some reason, I'll also add this option for deposits:

You are more than welcome to call our shop and have Marilynn run your credit card over the phone. Speedtrapped chose this method, and in two minutes we were done. It's frankly easier than mailing a check or cash (since the mail tends to get lost, and I've always been personally wary about sending money through the post).

Just something to consider.

Don't forget, e-mail me with your name, shipping address, and the method of how you'll be doing the deposit. andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com

[speedtrapped]

Feel like kid waiting for Christmas !!

[hahnmgh63]

Terry you are correct and that is where I tapped in at, the line from the pressure limiting valves to the Turbo intakes. I used a catch can on each side. Due to the nature of our Turbo (sometimes pressurized intake) cars the Catch can have to be of the sealed type and not vented (that is one line in and one out without an atmospheric filter). These catch cans are almost as common as the vented type since there are so many Turbo & Supercharged cars out there. Mine collects a small amount of oil even with the use of Aces IV which also reduced the bypass oil a small amount.

[fluidmotorunion]

(that is one line in and one out without an atmospheric filter)

You may notice three lines coming from our catch can. After some talking between us (and a helpful message from a forum member), we realized the oversight in our design and remade it to only have one line in, and one line out. No filter.

Don't forget, folks. Shoot me an e-mail to talk about the deposits and so I can get your mailing addresses. We're cutting the pieces out and have ordered all the carbon fiber cans, so things are moving. Once we secure all 5 deposits, we'll have a good ballpark of when to expect delivery.

andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com

[fluidmotorunion]

Okay guys, as you can see from the pictures below, we're almost done with all the cutting we need for the 5 intakes. After that, it's time to start welding as we await the arrival of the carbon fiber filter cans.

And here's the skinny on how everything else is going:

I currently have 4 of the 5 mailing addresses (terrytcl, speedtrapped, covertw12, palette) and 3 of the 5 deposits (waiting on palette to send confirmation, and tidus888 still has to pony up).

Now, through all the correspondence, tidus888 seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. And since this website is the only way to get a hold of him, it seems that he's either lost interest or just isn't on the boards at all any more. I'm going to keep attempting to make contact with him, but it's been well over a week, so I don't know what's going to happen with that. The group buy was for 5, but now we've got 4 all of a sudden.

So it basically boils down to this. Since we don't have a need for a second RS6 intake at the shop, I'm officially re-opening tidus888's spot on the group buy. If you know anybody who wants to get in on the fifth intake, have them e-mail me ASAP (andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com) to start arranging the deposit/shipping information. I wasn't really expecting anyone to back out or disappear, so I'm sorta playing this by ear now.

As I've said in e-mail correspondence before, the cans will be arriving much earlier than the 4-6 weeks predicted, probably in the neighborhood of 2-3 weeks (from last week, so 1-2 now).

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/intake_update_1.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/intake_update_2.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/intake_update_3.jpg

[Innovator]

It certainly looks good. Has there been any definitive dyno data to substantiate installing this system? Has the stock intake box been proven to be a bottleneck? I ask, because I have made over 500 HP on a single 3 " MAF on other engines.

[yokust]

I know the Apikol intake actually makes wheel hp.

My car was used for the test mule, and was same dyno, same day, same tune. Made 10whp each time the system was swapped on. We even took out the filters of the stock box and still made less hp then the Apikol intake.

But I have no idea if the FMU system flows enough to do that or not.

So even if the Apikol or Dahlback system allows hot air into the engine, it is still allowing a larger needed amount of air into the engine

[Innovator]

Based on a specific boost level, rpm and throttle opening, the engine can only ingest so much air.. If the potential for more air is available, but the engine does not demand it, there will be no benefit. As you know, if the IAT increases, HP will decrease. So IAT measurements must be conclusive, as far as any aftermarket intake, not increasing the IAT with any significance. I install many aftermarket intakes, and most of the time, they make the engine sound more powerful, but seldom make the car quicker. If anything, they increase heat soak when you are idling for any length of time. That is why it is imperative for piping to made out of composite materials, and not metal. Now, I have absolutely no idea if this particular intake will be of benefit to the RS6, but rest assured if it is proven to enhance performance, I will be buying one.

[speedtrapped]

I have dyno'ed my car 3 separate times, last time we did a pretty get together with stock and various modded rs6's. I am installing the FMU and will have dyno'ed and I will be data logging as well.

[SteveKen]

The only thing I'm knocking here is the cost per gain in HP with this or any aftermarket airbox modification. The real bottleneck seems to be past where the revised airbox systems end. I'm talking about the turbo inlets and the crazy route that they neck down and take to reach the turbos. The entire system would need to be redesigned with more of a straight shot into the turbos similar to the 2.7T. I'm not sure if it's even possible with things as they are.
Bigger MAF's and tuning? Maybe but there's still an acute angle that must happen for the air to get to the turbo. Just my $0.02.

[Innovator]

I'm sure the engineers did the best they could given the extremely tight space they were working with.

[SteveKen]

I'm sure the engineers did the best they could given the extremely tight space they were working with.

I have no doubt about this. Thus, I'd keep the stock setup unless a radical re-design were to occur. Most likely with bigger turbos attached.

[yokust]

I'm sure the engineers did the best they could given the extremely tight space they were working with.

I think this is the answer, but it does not mean it is a huge bottle neck though.

If you compare filter size of a 1.8t to one side of the 4.2t. The 1.8t has 3 times the filter size to draw thru, and its less liters per 1 bank of our motors and makes 75 less hp. And it has been proven that on 1.8t's that filter setup is a restriction around 300hp. So a chipped 4.2t is well above that level with a 1/3 of the filter size to allow proper flow into the motor.


MAF size would not have any effect here unless the turbo is changed btw. The only times MAF sizes need to be changed and a retune needed is when the voltage of sensor is reaching above or around the 4.5volts at max power. So you change the MAF size to reduce the voltage seen thru the MAF and a retune is needed to correct the new voltage graph of the MAF

[SteveKen]

So what HP level would you say that the stock airbox assembly becomes a limiting factor?

I would guess that it's not worth the expense unless a turbo upgrade was done.

[yokust]

Even bone stock the airbox is a bottleneck.

Like I stated before, my car made more HP to the wheels with the Apikol intake setup on it.

Testing for the intake was done on same day, and never was rolled off dyno. Made more whp on stock chip, and made even more with APR program turned on.

Apkiol and Dahlback systems have been both dyno proven, but they are basisclly the same minus a huge chunk of carbon that the Dahlback comes with

[ben916]

I think this is the answer, but it does not mean it is a huge bottle neck though.

If you compare filter size of a 1.8t to one side of the 4.2t. The 1.8t has 3 times the filter size to draw thru, and its less liters per 1 bank of our motors and makes 75 less hp. And it has been proven that on 1.8t's that filter setup is a restriction around 300hp. So a chipped 4.2t is well above that level with a 1/3 of the filter size to allow proper flow into the motor.


MAF size would not have any effect here unless the turbo is changed btw. The only times MAF sizes need to be changed and a retune needed is when the voltage of sensor is reaching above or around the 4.5volts at max power. So you change the MAF size to reduce the voltage seen thru the MAF and a retune is needed to correct the new voltage graph of the MAF

Yokust,
I am glad you posted this information as I am not questioning/scuttling the FMU upgrade (as that is what I see it as, and I am sure others do also). I like the FMU filter assembly but I have to plan my upgrade path slowly as "Congress/CFO" has a tight grip on the funds...

By your analysis of the MAF voltage, are you saying that to move to the next level of power, one would have to change to a different MAF that:
1. allows a increased voltage range?
2. allows more metered air (i.e. increasing diameter of MAF opening?

If allowing more metered air, wouldn't that mean one would have to upgrade the turbos and turbo inlets, thereby matching the increase in MAF diameter?

Also, HOW in the hell does MRC tuning (on the UK side of the world) get/extract so much power out of the C5?

[skribe]

Also, HOW in the hell does MRC tuning (on the UK side of the world) get/extract so much power out of the C5?

GT30 turbos, manual conversion, tubular manifolds, three radiators, four oil coolers, a FMIC, 750cc injectors, and two fuel pumps on their big beast C5 RS 6 avant is how.

[ben916]

GT30 turbos, manual conversion, tubular manifolds, three radiators, four oil coolers, a FMIC, 750cc injectors, and two fuel pumps on their big beast C5 RS 6 avant is how.

So that is a check for 5 digits or is it 6 digits?

[yokust]

MAF upgrades are only needed based on needs. Even with upgraded turbos it may not be needed to change MAF size. It is all based off the voltage readings under full power, or sometimes in certain cruising ranges. But it would need to be datalogged and not just thrown on.

When most 5volt sensors read above 4.5-4.7volts, they can actually loose all reading and go to a flatline voltage and send car into limp mode, or freak out ecu and not control items properly. And possible to cause parts to fail.

When you increase the MAf size, it will tell the ecu LESS air is coming by the sensor. And read less voltage, so that the MAF can actually read a larger range of air coming into the motor. But with that a retune is required, unless you are just trying to fool the ecu. So if a retune is not done, you may not get the proper amount of fuel that is needed, because the ecu is seeing less air volume entering motor

[fluidmotorunion]

Hey guys, we just got the intakes back from the powdercoater today. They're even better looking than just straight aluminum! All the group buy intakes will be receiving this treatment, since the engine bay isn't dark enough to begin with (sarcasm alert).

Sorry there aren't any pictures of the fully-installed powdercoated intake yet. We've left it disassembled so we can do fitment with the other 5 intake boxes before we begin tacking and welding everything together. As soon as we put it back together (probably tomorrow or Thursday), I'll snap some pictures before they whisk the RS6 away for trans/oil cooler testing.

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_powdercoat1.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_powdercoat2.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_powdercoat3.jpg

And don't forget, if you want to be lucky number 5, shoot me a message or e-mail for more details. Otherwise, I shall continue to ask politely.

Good luck out there in the Snowpocalypse!

[speedtrapped]

ANdrew that looks fantastic........Cant wait to run some #'s, although, I guess I will dyno once more before I put your intake on.....stage3 meth injection came in today, getting installed tues..., run a dyno...then run another with you intake.

[Innovator]

Even bone stock the airbox is a bottleneck.

Like I stated before, my car made more HP to the wheels with the Apikol intake setup on it.

Testing for the intake was done on same day, and never was rolled off dyno. Made more whp on stock chip, and made even more with APR program turned on.

Apkiol and Dahlback systems have been both dyno proven, but they are basisclly the same minus a huge chunk of carbon that the Dahlback comes with

How much more hp and torque did the car make before and after the intake upgrade? Do you have a graph from the dyno? I am considering buying one but I need some concrete numbers first.

[Innovator]

ANdrew that looks fantastic........Cant wait to run some #'s, although, I guess I will dyno once more before I put your intake on.....stage3 meth injection came in today, getting installed tues..., run a dyno...then run another with you intake.

How is your transmission holding up?

[speedtrapped]

so far so good, jinx.......seriously I am fully prepared for the worse, given what i am putting down at last dyno, and now adding meth injection, I have to assume my tranny wont hold up. My mechanic has 2 extra that I will eventually(if needed) buy one, hardened internals, extra clutch packs and better TC

[yokust]

How much more hp and torque did the car make before and after the intake upgrade? Do you have a graph from the dyno? I am considering buying one but I need some concrete numbers first.

Well mine is the Apikol intake, not the one here. I honestly have no idea if there design or filters will work as well as others.

I do have dyno's and graphs for them, but would have to dig up all the stuff to find out which one is what. If you contact Apikol he has everything also, since he was doing R+D for them before they went for sale

[fluidmotorunion]

Alright, guys, here's another update for you.

Craig is currently hammering away at the welds for the intake boxes, and they're coming along great. Here's some in-process pictures, followed by more shots of what it will look like once it's in the engine bay. Sorry we didn't have the connections between the grille and the CF cans in place for these shots, our engineer had them on his side of the shop.

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_intake_assembly1.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_intake_assembly2.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_intake_assembly3.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_intake_assembly4.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rs6_intake_assembly5.jpg


Don't forget, if you'd like to get in on this group buy, it's not too late. Tidus888 is still missing in action, so we've got an opening. Deposit information can be found out by emailing me: andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com

[speedtrapped]

Andrew nice....question, how will be addind MAF?, using existing MAF and housing?

[hahnmgh63]

I just E-mailed Hoppen about purchasing the "Stronger MAF seals" as MTM calls them. I'll let you know about the price & availability. I mentioned that I may be able to get a group of people in on a purchase if they have to order from Germany.

[fluidmotorunion]

Stock MAF housing and sensor, yes.

[fluidmotorunion]

I just E-mailed Hoppen about purchasing the "Stronger MAF seals" as MTM calls them. I'll let you know about the price & availability. I mentioned that I may be able to get a group of people in on a purchase if they have to order from Germany.

I actually sent out the same e-mail as soon as I learned that Hoppen imports MTM products. haha. Great minds think alike.

[marklar182]

$89 shipped :) (for individuals)

I ordered mine a week ago.

[JSRS6]

I feel a group buy coming on....

[V8weight]

I feel a group buy coming on....
I'll see if I can get one going on Audizine ;)

[JSRS6]

I'll see if I can get one going on Audizine ;)

No Pat No!!! :hihi:
O/T: Got the TB kit in today. All looks good.

[Innovator]

Ahh, so the intake box is metal... I thought it was CF.

[fluidmotorunion]

Ahh, so the intake box is metal... I thought it was CF.

The filter cans are carbon fiber. The intake box and the two arms that connect to the cans are made of metal, yes.

[Innovator]

Have you checked IATs to see that they have not increased due to heatsoak from the metal intake components?

[speedtrapped]

really? I mean, given design is diff then Apikol or dahlbacks, which both utilize open airfilters in engine bay and are constructed of metal-both have claimed to increase HP, u think the CF Box doesnt absorb alot of heat encompassing the whole manifold? I guess covertw12 will have to DYNO, cause my snow stage 3 is being installed as we speak, and I am pretty sure there is plenty of research and verified #'s that IAT temps drop with meth/water use...

[speedtrapped]

and NO I do NOT have any affiliation with FMU....I just like there Fab work

[JSRS6]

really? I mean, given design is diff then Apikol or dahlbacks, which both utilize open airfilters in engine bay and are constructed of metal-both have claimed to increase HP, u think the CF Box doesnt absorb alot of heat encompassing the whole manifold? I guess covertw12 will have to DYNO, cause my snow stage 3 is being installed as we speak, and I am pretty sure there is plenty of research and verified #'s that IAT temps drop with meth/water use...

You lucky bastard...:hihi:

[speedtrapped]

I know Dave will kill me for this comment, but if I am not spending it on my cars, I would be investing in golf memberships, besides its either the paradox of thrift(which I dont adhere to) or its multiplier effect....

[Innovator]

really? I mean, given design is diff then Apikol or dahlbacks, which both utilize open airfilters in engine bay and are constructed of metal-both have claimed to increase HP, u think the CF Box doesnt absorb alot of heat encompassing the whole manifold? I guess covertw12 will have to DYNO, cause my snow stage 3 is being installed as we speak, and I am pretty sure there is plenty of research and verified #'s that IAT temps drop with meth/water use...
Sure they will drop with meth and water. That's not what I'm talking about tho, and not many folks use that. No OE auto maker that I know of, regardless of the cost of the car, uses metal for intake tubing anymore. Even the intake manifolds are composite plastic. The reason for that is mainly less absorption of heat. Now I don't doubt that this design will flow more air, assuming that there is a demand for more air than the stock box can handle.

When the car is moving, there isn't too much heat build up in the engine compartment. But in slow traffic or idling, heat builds, (heatsoak) and when you hit the gas, you get a gulp of really hot air, and then, fresh air gets heated as it goes through the metal piping, over and above ambient temps. Eventually the metal cools down as air continues to pass through it, but not that quickly.. So you may initially have some detonation and a reduction of timing until the IATs go down. The same applies to heat-soaked intercoolers. This is based on my own personal experience, and not on my RS6 in particular..

[speedtrapped]

I am almost certain that the RS6 intake manifold is metal....I have had my airbox off at least 6 times, and it feels like metal to me

[fluidmotorunion]

Sure they will drop with meth and water. That's not what I'm talking about tho, and not many folks use that. No OE auto maker that I know of, regardless of the cost of the car, uses metal for intake tubing anymore. Even the intake manifolds are composite plastic. The reason for that is mainly less absorption of heat. Now I don't doubt that this design will flow more air, assuming that there is a demand for more air than the stock box can handle.

When the car is moving, there isn't too much heat build up in the engine compartment. But in slow traffic or idling, heat builds, (heatsoak) and when you hit the gas, you get a gulp of really hot air, and the air gets heated as it goes through the metal piping over and above ambient temps. Eventually the metal cools down as air continues to pass through it, but not that fast.. So you may initially have some detonation and a reduction of timing until the IATs go down. This is based on my own personal experience, but not on my RS6 in particular..

As we're simultaneously developing a couple different products for the RS6, we have been all over the place in terms of datalogging.

Next time we're out in the RS6, I'll make sure our guys log all the engine data from VAGCOM and I'll start posting the relevant numbers here.

I'll make sure that they keep an eye out for what you've stated above.

[edit] On our last run that we just finished, we recorded IATs (from whereever VAGCOM measures IATs) in the 3-9 degree Celsius range.

[JSRS6]

I am almost certain that the RS6 intake manifold is metal....I have had my airbox off at least 6 times, and it feels like metal to me

LOL, i think he meant the intake tubing...:hihi: Ive never seen a composite intake manifold...

[SteveKen]

LOL, i think he meant the intake tubing...:hihi: Ive never seen a composite intake manifold...

Many intakes are composite these days. I'm guessing it has more to do with the ease and cost of manufacture versus heating of the intake air. The engineers will adjust the ECU coding t for whatever the IATs are once the engine is built, etc.

I'm fairly certain that the RS6 intake manifold is aluminum.

Carbon fiber, however, is probalby the most heat resistant (and possibly insulative) material in comparison to any other practical material used for an airbox. I can't see using a ceramic material, lol.

[hahnmgh63]

I don't think Porsche has used a metal intake manifold since the early 90's, my old '74 911 with the engine out of a '93 911 has a plastic intake manifold, I think on the 911 porsche swapped over in '92 or '93. I think my daughters new ('09) A4 has a plastic intake manifold too.

[JSRS6]

I guess it would make sense. Make the entire intake out of the intake spacer material....or some high density cfrp.

[fluidmotorunion]

Sorry about the lack of updates this past week, guys. With our marketing guy leaving to pursue academic interests, I've been picking up his slack (meaning his massive inbox and list of clients) and have finally caught back up.

Either way, I found buyer #5 just over the weekend, so everything is hunky dory in that regard.

The five airboxes have finished being welded, the plates to secure the filters are almost done being welded and after that, all we have to do is wait for the carbon fiber cans to make it here from Italy and get the intakes powdercoated (not in that order, we'll send everything out for powdercoating as soon as it's all set to go).

I'll get some more pictures for you guys tomorrow. Just wanted to let you know that we're still moving, despite my lack of posts the past week, for which I apologize.

[fluidmotorunion]

The cans arrived this week! And, within a day, all the welding and fitment is finished with the intakes! So now we have unpainted intakes, clamps, silicone boots, and the cans.

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/intake_update_4.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/intake_update_7.jpg

All that remains is a quick trip to the powdercoater, one last fitment check, then boxing and shipping! While the intakes are at the powdercoater (the process should take roughly a week to complete, since we have so many parts to powdercoat and they're the most reputable place anywhere near us), AJ and I are going to finish working on the directions, which will include pictures. Aside from the clamps, only two nuts + bolts will be needed and included with the set (as the mounting plates bolt up to the coilpack bolts using the stock bolts) to hook up this little ditty we decided to add while waiting for the cans.

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/intake_update_6.jpg
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/intake_update_5.jpg

It will connect with the nut+bolt to each side of the mounting plate. The inner portion of the cross-member will be etched with your Fluid MotorUnion part number (001-005). It doesn't provide any extra structural rigidity, it just adds to the great aesthetics of our design. So if you want to put it on your desk instead, we won't stop ya. And with all the black going on in the engine bay, you won't even notice the slats if you don't install the cross-member.

Obviously, as the time draws near for shipping of the intakes, so too does the time draw near to submit the remaining amount of the total ($1100 total - $150 deposit = $950 remaining). I'm not going to start asking yet, since the powdercoating stage is just beginning, but keep it in mind for the next week or so.

If you have any questions, feel free to let me know on here or over e-mail: andrew [at] fluidmotorunion [dot] com

[Innovator]

Did you ever get that data log that shows if there is a raise in IATs with the introduction of the metal hardware?

[yokust]

Did you ever get that data log that shows if there is a raise in IATs with the introduction of the metal hardware?

The IAT sensor is in the intakes manifold, so those readings are going to be based off intercoolers, for the most part. But may also help do to the fact or more air can travel across the aluminum intake manifold and possibly help control temps

[speedtrapped]

Nice! Can't wait drop this on the new heart.

[2TURBOV8]

Speedtrapped,
Any dyno numbers yet, or are waiting for the intake before you test it? I am REALLY interested to see how your beast turns out!!

[speedtrapped]

me too! I spoke with my mechani today, they fell behind on a range rover engine swap, amonsgt other jobs. My RS6 wont start till weds or thursday(not to mention, his wife is scheduled for c section midweek) So i dont have the new heart transplant yet.....

[makaveli42]

Whatever happen to this? Lol? I just read thru all 8 pages and then BAM it ended!

You guys ever get the intakes?

Dyno numbers?????

Im interested in one in the future if it was worth it...

[as350]

I bought an FMU intake and had it on the car for about a week. Removed it because the car went in for some major (unrelated) warranty work and didn't want to have to explain it to the warranty adjuster and never reinstalled it. It looks very nice and I liked it for the 80 miles or so that I had it on the car.

I'm getting close to listing a few of my extra parts for sale and I think I'll put this intake up for sale in a few weeks. I placed an order for a 2013 TTRS and need to liquidate some of my mods and spare parts....

[terrytcl]

I placed an order for a 2013 TTRS and need to liquidate some of my mods and spare parts....

APR stage 2?

go kart on fire!

my wife wants the TT RS.

[alrightroad]

I bought an FMU intake and had it on the car for about a week. Removed it because the car went in for some major (unrelated) warranty work and didn't want to have to explain it to the warranty adjuster and never reinstalled it. It looks very nice and I liked it for the 80 miles or so that I had it on the car.

I'm getting close to listing a few of my extra parts for sale and I think I'll put this intake up for sale in a few weeks. I placed an order for a 2013 TTRS and need to liquidate some of my mods and spare parts....

I might be interested in the intake... and some of the other parts. What other parts do you have up for offering?

eric

[as350]

APR stage 2?

go kart on fire!

my wife wants the TT RS.

Haha,
I've been closely following the APR and AWE developments for the TTRS. The stage 3 is already putting out 600hp and 0-60 in 2.8. And they're not done tweaking yet.... :incar:

[as350]

I might be interested in the intake... and some of the other parts. What other parts do you have up for offering?

eric

I'm on a business trip right now and will not get home for another 10 days or so. I'll have a better idea what I'll part with once I'm home, but most of the spare parts and mods are for a mk1 TT. Other than the FMU intake and small stuff like LED tails I didn't accumulate too many RS6 goodies.

[alrightroad]

I'm on a business trip right now and will not get home for another 10 days or so. I'll have a better idea what I'll part with once I'm home, but most of the spare parts and mods are for a mk1 TT. Other than the FMU intake and small stuff like LED tails I didn't accumulate too many RS6 goodies.

Gotcha. Shoot me an email when you have time to discuss the intake price. No rush... ehartley at bluetownedotcom That TT RS will be a beast. Someone in ATL is picking up his from APR today with the new exhaust. Watch for videos of sound over on quattroworld and the Southeast regional forum.

[as350]

Gotcha. Shoot me an email when you have time to discuss the intake price. No rush... ehartley at bluetownedotcom That TT RS will be a beast. Someone in ATL is picking up his from APR today with the new exhaust. Watch for videos of sound over on quattroworld and the Southeast regional forum.

I'm back from my trip and just sent you an email.

[Del Stator]

Your kidding me....

No one has any review about this product?

Is there any experiential evidence of the effectiveness of this product?

I am going with EPL upgraded new turbos, bored out injectors and water injection....and this intake really looks great. But I am more interested in the actual effectiveness...or any downside.

There has to more information out there than, "I liked it." :)

[Stephencl]

Chris,

I just drove the intake on Bryan's car. I sold it to him when my first RS6 died in Irene last year. Its amazing....some have had leaking issues at the MAF...Bryan changed the clamps and cut down some of the actual box piping. It SOUNDS incredible. But Dyno says at least 10-15HP. Much more responsive than my stock new car. No Dyno tests that I know, but those are my impressions.

Bryan, you may want to chime in.

Stephen

[Del Stator]

MMMM, sounds promising...

I am moving to California from Arkansas. I know nothing about emissions testing. I have been told I will be all right with everything I am doing to my RS6.

I am curious if this in anyway can cause issues for emission testing? I assume not but just asking..

[Stephencl]

Yup, CA does visual emmisions testing. They will pop that hood and say, NO WAY HOSEA. Without a CARB cert sticker, you couldnt run this.

just my .02.

Stephen

[ben916]

MMMM, sounds promising...

I am moving to California from Arkansas. I know nothing about emissions testing. I have been told I will be all right with everything I am doing to my RS6.

I am curious if this in anyway can cause issues for emission testing? I assume not but just asking..

CA does a OBDII plug in AND a tail pipe sniffer so you might be in trouble with this => "Full MillTek Exhaust" -> if there aren't Cats...
The Intake and cat back will not cause an issue, it is the Cats or lack of cats that might cause an issue...

[bmlee007]

Chris,

I just drove the intake on Bryan's car. I sold it to him when my first RS6 died in Irene last year. Its amazing....some have had leaking issues at the MAF...Bryan changed the clamps and cut down some of the actual box piping. It SOUNDS incredible. But Dyno says at least 10-15HP. Much more responsive than my stock new car. No Dyno tests that I know, but those are my impressions.

Bryan, you may want to chime in.

Stephen

When I started to install the intake it didn't quite "fit." I took a little extra time and cut the solid tubes that run into the plenum, and ordered some silicone hose to complete the setup. I also got rid of the standard worm gear clamps and got some t-bolt clamps which tighten up straighter and just make it feel more solid. I wasn't on a dyno before or after to see any numbers, but I can say that power is delivered sooner, and it does sound great with the SE exhaust. Enough so that I have decided against changing it out at this point.

[Turbowned]

Hey guys,

Was there ever any empirical data taken with this intake? I want to buy the one Del Stator is selling but I'm wary of spending nearly $1k on a product with no information. I look at it as an opportunity to purchase a hard-to-get item but I'd be postponing getting an exhaust, intercoolers and a tune in order to take advantage of this opportunity.

[bmlee007]

I was never able to get on a dyno before I installed the FMU intake, nor since. Now I'm tuned, so I couldn't tell you quantitatively how performance was affected. It was a change for the better with my stock tune, but I can't give numbers.

That being said, I am going to modify mine soon. I'm going to change the post-filter piping so that each side goes to a single MAF, not into the box as it does now. I get the feeling that there is too much turbulence created by two air streams meeting each other from opposite sides of the intake, before blending and going into the MAFs. My desired outcome is a mix between the FMU and Apikol intakes, with the filters being shielded by the carbon boxes from FMU, while going directly to single MAFs as is done with the Apikol system. If that makes any sense. I'll post pics when it is done.

[na1mt]

I really doubt that neither the Apikol or FMU will outperform the good ole stocker. The FMU design looks cool, but you will likely experience considerably less air flow than either the stocker or Apikol. The only way to really fix the FMU would be to cut it apart and turn it into the Apikol with a fancy cover. I have the Apikol and the front air scoops are always separating from intake tubes, plus the aluminum tends to heat up under there. So.....I will probably be returning back to stock.

I do intend to dyno the car in the next month so maybe I will do a couple of pulls with the Apikol, and some with the stocker if I have time to switch them out.

[Del Stator]

I really doubt that neither the Apikol or FMU will outperform the good ole stocker. The FMU design looks cool, but you will likely experience considerably less air flow than either the stocker or Apikol. The only way to really fix the FMU would be to cut it apart and turn it into the Apikol with a fancy cover. I have the Apikol and the front air scoops are always separating from intake tubes, plus the aluminum tends to heat up under there. So.....I will probably be returning back to stock.

I do intend to dyno the car in the next month so maybe I will do a couple of pulls with the Apikol, and some with the stocker if I have time to switch them out.

I admit that I am biased because I am selling one...

But to say that you will likely experience considerably less air flow does not reflect my experience at all. My car flies with the FMU and doesn't feel any faster with the stock on. I basically detected no change but we reflashed after the stock one was back on. I couldn't tell a difference personally....the car is fast.

I don't believe the FMU needs to be fixed. Maybe some have had fitment issues but that is pretty easy to sort. We lowered the filter canisters a tiny bit because of a hood contact issue. But I believe it is a solid design. I would gladly put mine back on if it weren't for the infinite wisdom of California state government.

As for IAT, I have a STE PPD and the air intake numbers have not changed any noticeable amount. I have the PPD set to show IAT most of the time. So I am almost constantly monitoring the numbers.

Now do I think that this is the best step before exhaust or tune? No I don't..

Just for the sound it is worth it to me..

[ttboost]

I don't recall there being any actual power/performance numbers for these intakes when they were produced and finally released. I think most accepted it was an aesthetic improvement, rather than a performance improvement. Surely it didn't make it worse. I seem to recall a few did have fitment problems. There are many vehicles that suffer from a poor intake design...I don't think the RS6 is one of them...these new intakes look cool....but that's a lot of money for a "couple of pipes" to look cool...and you can't even see it until your hood is opened.

[Turbowned]

Yes, I'm starting to think it's not the best option for me at this time. If I already had a full exhaust, intercoolers and a tune I would be more intrigued but I'd rather spend my money on proven power mods before unproven ones. Back in my days of modifying my MK1 Toyota MR2, it was totally acceptable to fab up an intake in the garage based on someone on the forum's suggestion that "it will work better because my butt dyno says so" but that was spending very little money and the car was significantly less sophisticated. Even though this part has been engineered and not just cobbled together, without data it's difficult to justify at best.

[na1mt]

The FMU has two separate pipes bringing air into the large common chamber from opposite directions smacking into each other and then it has to force its way down into the MAFs. I'm no engineer, but I can say while every other intake I've seen was designed to flow smoothly with nothing abrupt in the design, the FMU has taken an opposite view altogether. Until someone can prove otherwise with before and after dynos I'm calling it costume jewelry. It does look cool......but I think that's probably about it.

[Del Stator]

The FMU has two separate pipes bringing air into the large common chamber from opposite directions smacking into each other and then it has to force its way down into the MAFs. I'm no engineer, but I can say while every other intake I've seen was designed to flow smoothly with nothing abrupt in the design, the FMU has taken an opposite view altogether. Until someone can prove otherwise with before and after dynos I'm calling it costume jewelry. It does look cool......but I think that's probably about it.

I totally agree where you are coming from.

But I have seen some 3 and 4 rotor engine designs with dual intake tubing coming into a custom common plenum and making stupid horsepower. There is something at work that I don't fully understand. I know there also is a difference when working with boosted engine compared to NA.

[Turbowned]

I wish I had the disposable income right now to buy it and do a couple dyno runs with it, but unfortunately I just don't. If you still have it later on down the road I'll be in touch for sure!

[makaveli42]

I wasted money on an Apikol intake last month, bought it for the sound really....but my straight piped exhaust covers up the sound. Looks cheap as can be and the stock air funnels don't for very well into the K&Ns.....save your money and keep the stock intake.

[Del Stator]

I still believe that there is more going on with this FMU intake than just people saying that it is not a good design. Does it make more hp...I don't know.

I reached out to FMU to get an idea of what they did and why. Here is part of Mike Marzano's response.

"In regards to the design, we put a few different designs into consideration and what you see showed the best results in regards to flow, etc. I think we would have liked it to be a little bit different but as you know, there isn't a ton of space in there!

Keeping that in mind, we wanted to incorporate the dual velocity stack setup inside that little plenum in order to better help with flow. We've seen in the past that any type of turn hinders performance so we try to avoid them at all times!

Let me know if that answers your questions! If you have any others please feel free to send them over."

Talk Soon,
Mike

[mdegracia]

The delivery point for the plenum is on the front of cars.
Wouldn't the turbos be actively drawing flow in?
So while the FMU design likely causes turbulent flow at the MAFs, I would think it would have plenty of time to transition into laminar flow by it the time it goes through turbos, the intercoolers to the TB and ultimately the plenum?

IDK, maybe I'm wrong. I have the stock box and don't mind it. Rather cover up all those hoses and wires anyways!

[ttboost]

I think ultimately the question is, and always was: Does this make more power than stock, or is it just eye candy? I'm not sure we ever got an answer, regarding power gains...or losses. Sure it probably didn't LOSE any power, but did it GAIN any? For $1200, or whatever the cost was? Seems easy enough to change on the dyno...I don't recall ever seeing anything...

[Del Stator]

Griffin Motorwerk in Berkeley is having a dyno installed as we speak. I hope someday to see once and for all if any of these intakes are making any power...or losing power.

I like the eye candy, but staying stock intake as long as I am in California.

[ttboost]

I was almost included in the original group buy, but with no data, my money wasn't leaving my pocket. Even though it's been 3 or 4 years now, I'm still curious what this thing does.

[Bigglezworth]

I have no hard data, but my understanding of physics makes it hard for me to believe that any modifications to the air box (frequently mistaken as an 'intake'....) on this car will do anything to increase performance. This is a forced induction car and all the power is downstream from the compressor. Modifications to an airbox to either draw in cold outside air or improve airflow to the the intake manifold as part of a 'ram air' approach, provide additional power on cars that are naturally aspirated. They don't do anything on a forced induction car. The RS already has cold air intake and ample flow rates via double air filters. That then makes this entire effort a question on the flow of the filters in question.

The airboxes in this thread area entirely contained to ensure cold air charge, but I've seen other examples that look to have exposed filters under the hood. That would make for drawing in hot air from the engine compartment vs. from in front of the condensor and radiator and would increase the temperature of the incoming air thus amplifying temps once it's further compressed by the turbos. If anything, those are likely a hinderance...

Just my $0.02

[ttboost]

I tend to agree with Tim. The RS6 air box is not a restriction. The size of the filters and the volume of the box seems very adequate for the power level that car can make. The air boxes on my SL65...now THAT'S a restriction.

[RS8]

I just read through all the pages in this old thread and found some interesting posts from "yokust" that apparently some people above who wrote them last posts have missed?


Even bone stock the airbox is a bottleneck.

Like I stated before, my car made more HP to the wheels with the Apikol intake setup on it.

Testing for the intake was done on same day, and never was rolled off dyno. Made more whp on stock chip, and made even more with APR program turned on.

Apkiol and Dahlback systems have been both dyno proven, but they are basisclly the same minus a huge chunk of carbon that the Dahlback comes with



If you compare filter size of a 1.8t to one side of the 4.2t. The 1.8t has 3 times the filter size to draw thru, and its less liters per 1 bank of our motors and makes 75 less hp. And it has been proven that on 1.8t's that filter setup is a restriction around 300hp. So a chipped 4.2t is well above that level with a 1/3 of the filter size to allow proper flow into the motor.


And also MILKA mounted BMC air filterbox on his car:

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/26650-Milka-Build-thread/page3?

I have to build something similar to my car now, but do not know which BMC airbox that is best and will fit.

Is it anymore people that have built their own air filter boxes on the RS6 engine?

[RS8]

Can anyone answer whether this is the same filter that is used for this group buy:
http://www.bmcairfilters.com/eng/ota-oval-trumpet-airbox/acota70-85l230-b/812/art

It also looks to be the same filter that Milka used in his car?


(My RS6 air box steal 20 hp from my engine)