Sanity Check

[groupbq]

I am considering pulling the trigger on a 2003 RS6 with 64K which is for sale at a local Audi dealer. Normally I attempt to find low mileage one owner cars with complete documentation (window sticker, etc.), whereas this car appears to have had 3-4 owners and does not have any service records.

However, the dealer was able to pull service records which indicate a complete DRC replacement at 56K, upper control arms and front rotors at 36K, timing belt at 32k, and normal routine maintnence. The car drives flawlessly, produces no visible smoke upon cold start-up or full throttle, and the transmission shifts crisply (much better than my C5 S6). Since it would not have any warranty, I had the dealer put it up on a lift and I inspected it for about 30 minutes. There did not appear to be any oil leaks - it is dry near the turbos and cam covers, and no odor of hot oil after driving. The transmission and diff. seals are not leaking, and all CV boots are good. I did see a moist spot near one of the DRC pipe junctions in the rear, but I assume that was oil that leaked out when it was repaired (it was not a fresh spot). The control arm bushings are still OK. Overall it is clean underneath, as the car has spent most of its life in CA.

The body is very clean with virtully no stone chips, and is free of dings (headlight lens are very clean). I can see no evidence of paint work, even under bright flourescent lighting. The interior is virtully as new, with all rubberized surfaces in good shape. It is actually the cleanest RS6 of the half dozen I have looked at over the years, even though it has twice the mileage as any of the others. It will be due for another timing belt soon, and I doubt that the transmission fluid has been changed. I have it on hold and can purchase it for $25.5K.

This would be hobby car for me, in addition to my ur quattro, and I am capable of doing most service work myself (I have a lift). Is there anything I am overlooking? Am I nuts for considering a car with this mileage at that price?

Thanks, Gregg

[ttboost]

Just bought a car in the exact same condition and miles for the exact same price...go for it...

[DHall1]

There are a couple of low mileage units with ext warranties out there right now. The one in Texas has under 20k with 5 years of warranty left. 40ish

While this car sounds very nice you will have no warranty and sitting at a mileage that the big dollar items normally hit.

1. Torque converter is due at 65k. Drive the car for 20 miles and scan the ecu/tcu.
2. O2 sensors
3. EGT sensors

So then the option is to buy the ext war on this 65k car. At this mileage your looking at 5k for the ext war. Now you have over 30k in the car. Just something to think about.

Any seeping from a DRC fitting is a warning sign. Potential problem.


I am considering pulling the trigger on a 2003 RS6 with 64K which is for sale at a local Audi dealer. Normally I attempt to find low mileage one owner cars with complete documentation (window sticker, etc.), whereas this car appears to have had 3-4 owners and does not have any service records.

However, the dealer was able to pull service records which indicate a complete DRC replacement at 56K, upper control arms and front rotors at 36K, timing belt at 32k, and normal routine maintnence. The car drives flawlessly, produces no visible smoke upon cold start-up or full throttle, and the transmission shifts crisply (much better than my C5 S6). Since it would not have any warranty, I had the dealer put it up on a lift and I inspected it for about 30 minutes. There did not appear to be any oil leaks - it is dry near the turbos and cam covers, and no odor of hot oil after driving. The transmission and diff. seals are not leaking, and all CV boots are good. I did see a moist spot near one of the DRC pipe junctions in the rear, but I assume that was oil that leaked out when it was repaired (it was not a fresh spot). The control arm bushings are still OK. Overall it is clean underneath, as the car has spent most of its life in CA.

The body is very clean with virtully no stone chips, and is free of dings (headlight lens are very clean). I can see no evidence of paint work, even under bright flourescent lighting. The interior is virtully as new, with all rubberized surfaces in good shape. It is actually the cleanest RS6 of the half dozen I have looked at over the years, even though it has twice the mileage as any of the others. It will be due for another timing belt soon, and I doubt that the transmission fluid has been changed. I have it on hold and can purchase it for $25.5K.

This would be hobby car for me, in addition to my ur quattro, and I am capable of doing most service work myself (I have a lift). Is there anything I am overlooking? Am I nuts for considering a car with this mileage at that price?

Thanks, Gregg

[hahnmgh63]

Adding to what the others say if it isn't a standard yet but do a Carfax on any car your looking at purchasing. Carfax isn't fool proof but it is 90%.

[PALETTE]

if you can get a Warranty! Just peace of mind

[CornersWell]

Another endorsement for having a warranty. However, your only chance may be through the Audi dealer selling the car. I don't even think the independent warranty guys will write a policy on the RS6 any longer. At least I know the company I'm with won't.

FYI, I'm at 55K, and the alternator, torque converter and brake vacuum pump have all gone bad in the last 5-6 months. I maintain it to factory recommended or better, so maintenance won't prevent some issues. They're just known deficiencies. My recommendation is that you also have the control links checked. My control links have been replaced 2x in 52K miles. So, if this car's links have 30K+ miles on them, they're probably due.

CW

[Aronis]

Hey now, the Torque Converter is good for 103,200 Miles....

It's the parktronics that you have to watch out for, that dies at 105,222 miles.

Oh and the brake lights both go at between 102,000 and 104,900 miles....

LOL..

You have a lift of your own? You can fix it all yourself!

By the way the remove-the-torque-converter-without-pulling-the-engine is an Urban Legend. There are some bolts on one of the turbos which make it impossible to drop the engine enough to pull the TC...

Mike

[DHall1]

The points on condition are worth noting. As is the CA car history. Given you are in Ohio and most in your area have come from salt and the NE.....you should not discount these facts.

You have put eyes on it and driven the vehicle. Noting the history and condition are two very big factors.

CA car RS6 suspension after 7 years. Our E55 is just as clean after 60k as well.

http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a476/drh11/IMG_1616.jpg


Overall it is clean underneath, as the car has spent most of its life in CA.

The body is very clean with virtully no stone chips, and is free of dings (headlight lens are very clean). I can see no evidence of paint work, even under bright flourescent lighting. The interior is virtully as new, with all rubberized surfaces in good shape. It is actually the cleanest RS6 of the half dozen I have looked at over the years, even though it has twice the mileage as any of the others. It will be due for another timing belt soon, and I doubt that the transmission fluid has been changed. I have it on hold and can purchase it for $25.5K.

[DHall1]

Urban legend except for the shops and techs that have completed the job without pulling the engine. And yes, it is one of the turbos that cause the challenge. Many have done it without any problem.


Hey now, the Torque Converter is good for 103,200 Miles....

It's the parktronics that you have to watch out for, that dies at 105,222 miles.

Oh and the brake lights both go at between 102,000 and 104,900 miles....

LOL..

You have a lift of your own? You can fix it all yourself!

By the way the remove-the-torque-converter-without-pulling-the-engine is an Urban Legend. There are some bolts on one of the turbos which make it impossible to drop the engine enough to pull the TC...

Mike

[Aronis]

I have been told that those bolts are not accessible, but I have read many posts which say YES you Can!

I certainly wanted the dealer to do it without pulling the engine, but after a 1000 miles after TC repair no problems to report! Accept a few careless scratches on the front fenders, etc...

Pulling Engine never sounds good LOL..

[TozoM8]

Pulling the engine is a lot of work :)

[groupbq]

Tozo, I sent you a PM.

[mmaturo]

You are due another timing belt now which is expensive so talk another little bit off the car (I bet rotors too)...otherwise sounds good to me. Honestly my car has broken something at every interval not listed here so its a crap shoot 100%. Get a couple more grand off the price...they got the car on trade or at auction at 16K I bet. If you have test driven several RS6s you probably know how it should feel (holy crap fun) but any hesitation or clunking into gear anywhere is a hint of problems to come.

[DHall1]

BTW the DRC seems screwed up on that car.

Rear is too high and front looks a tad high

[CornersWell]

Regarding DRC ride height, i STILL cannot get any ride height specs from the dealer. What is this? Some sort of national secret? And, the dealer confirms, yet again, that there are NO adjustments for the DRC. So, they're scratching their heads and picking their butts, but don't have ANY suggestions.

CW

[DHall1]

The only adjustment for the DRC is the proper line pressure. Have they connected the special tool and checked both X lines? If not, then have them do it and pay them if need be.

Last resort is find a race shop or performance alignment shop. Put the car on the align rack, loosen all control arm bolts....bounce or drive around the block....put it back on the align rack and torque all bolts fully loaded.


Regarding DRC ride height, i STILL cannot get any ride height specs from the dealer. What is this? Some sort of national secret? And, the dealer confirms, yet again, that there are NO adjustments for the DRC. So, they're scratching their heads and picking their butts, but don't have ANY suggestions.

CW

[CornersWell]

Question: the ride height specs...

I've been using center of wheel hub up to the bottom edge of the fender. But, how does Audi measure ride height? The dealer can't even tell me that!

I'm having an alignment done tomorrow (along with the brake vacuum pump replacement). But, they don't have the proper tools to work on the DRC. So, this is, really, just to try and figure out why the left rear is wearing prematurely on the outer 1/3 of the tread. We'll go from there.

But, why can't I get a ride height spec measurement? From that we'll be able to immediately determine if the ride height is off (which I believe it is).

CW

[groupbq]

Thanks for all of your input. As much as I liked the car, I think I will take a pass and seek a lower mileage example with a better pedigree.

Gregg

[Erik]

Sane, but we're all a bit insane here...

[DHall1]

We had the spec in one of the DRC threads. Don found it I think. Center of hub to edge of each fender.

IMHO if the dealer does not have the special tool they are idiots and a complete waste of time. That is the first thing you check and the very reason the tool was developed. It has a pressure gauge to tell you if in spec. You are flying blind without it. Find a dealer with the tool.

[CornersWell]

Should have been more clear on that...going to independent for the alignment. They'll get it done at the same time the brake vacuum pump is being done.

Dealer has the tool. But, I want to hear from them that they're not the blind leading the blind before spending one dollar with them. They did the DRC recall, and the problem has existed since the replacement. I just haven't done anything about it until now. The roads are in such bad shape that I finally need to do something. Either that or my dentist is going to have to replace all my fillings.

CW

[DHall1]

I would go to the Audi dealer with the special tool and lay out the plan of action. Step by step process to troubleshoot and document along the way.

Are you instructing the indy to loosen all the control arm bolts bounce then retorque?

1. Loosen all control arm bolts.
2. Check DRC line pressures
3. Bounce test and or drive around the block
4. Put on alignment rack and retorque the control arm bolts with weight on four corners
5. Alignment

Pay to have it done in that order and watch them do it. Jumping to step 5 makes no sense at this point because if the car is riding out of spec and make a change later the alignment will have to be done again.

Check


Should have been more clear on that...going to independent for the alignment. They'll get it done at the same time the brake vacuum pump is being done.

Dealer has the tool. But, I want to hear from them that they're not the blind leading the blind before spending one dollar with them. They did the DRC recall, and the problem has existed since the replacement. I just haven't done anything about it until now. The roads are in such bad shape that I finally need to do something. Either that or my dentist is going to have to replace all my fillings.

CW

[CornersWell]

Agreed, but dealer won't confirm car is out of spec, yet. They will need to do more homework. So, I'm dealing with one problem at a time at this stage...

And, the indy is doing the brake vacuum pump tomorrow. Just trying to kill that and the weird wear on the left rear in one visit. Driving as little as possible at this point until it's been aligned.

Can anyone provide a copy of the specs from a manual? .pdf? Scan? Anything?

Thanks,

CW

[CornersWell]

So, the alignment showed that the left rear was WAY out-of-spec for toe-in and somewhat out-of-spec for camber. The fronts were also pretty far out. So, let's see how the tires wear now! DC-area roads and potholes, undoubtedly.

Also ran into a new RS6 owner who said he'll introduce himself on here. There were three RS6's in the shop today. That's got to be some sort of record.

CW

[4everRS]

Dave has said it many times, but this is the best advice for out of spec ride heights. I loosened the bolts, bounced on the back several times, kept weight on the back and tightened the bolts. Now I couldn't ask for a better balance aside from coilovers. Measured from the center of the hub the the edge of the fender, I am at 14" front and 14 1/8" out back.
I would go to the Audi dealer with the special tool and lay out the plan of action. Step by step process to troubleshoot and document along the way.

Are you instructing the indy to loosen all the control arm bolts bounce then retorque?

1. Loosen all control arm bolts.
2. Check DRC line pressures
3. Bounce test and or drive around the block
4. Put on alignment rack and retorque the control arm bolts with weight on four corners
5. Alignment

Pay to have it done in that order and watch them do it. Jumping to step 5 makes no sense at this point because if the car is riding out of spec and make a change later the alignment will have to be done again.

Check

[DHall1]

Thanks,

I could go get the youtube vid of the guy beating the horse again but you all know it already.

Having your RS6 at proper ride height and working as designed DRC? Priceless.

Ahhh, what the hell. Its Thanksgiving week and the TSA are groping everyone. I got the dead horse vid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1bzZheWk

[CornersWell]

Yes, on the way to getting things sorted. One problem at a time.

However, things are breaking faster than I can get them fixed! Two steps forward...

CW

[CornersWell]

Back at the shop this morning...

Brake light switch has failed. WTF?!

Starting to f'in piss me WAY off.

CW

[twinsteve]

Back at the shop this morning...

Brake light switch has failed. WTF?!

Starting to f'in piss me WAY off.

CW

I am on my third brake light switch..switch #2, which replaced the original one turned, out to be defective out of the box, so on to #3...

[CornersWell]

I've NEVER had this kind of crap happen to any of our Mercedes Benz products. And, I'm hearing that these failures are common and well-known? WTF? Fix the f'in design. Audi needs to get their stuff sorted out. This was a $90K car when I bought it, so I expect $90K of car. It's turning into a huge PITA, though. I'm now making stops at the shop weekly!

CW

[ben916]

I've NEVER had this kind of crap happen to any of our Mercedes Benz products. And, I'm hearing that these failures are common and well-known? WTF? Fix the f'in design. Audi needs to get their stuff sorted out. This was a $90K car when I bought it, so I expect $90K of car. It's turning into a huge PITA, though. I'm now making stops at the shop weekly!

CW

This isn't good to hear...

[DHall1]

I feel your pain CW.

Dont think MB is any better. Google "E55 AMG fuel leak" and be happy you own a RS6.




I've NEVER had this kind of crap happen to any of our Mercedes Benz products. And, I'm hearing that these failures are common and well-known? WTF? Fix the f'in design. Audi needs to get their stuff sorted out. This was a $90K car when I bought it, so I expect $90K of car. It's turning into a huge PITA, though. I'm now making stops at the shop weekly!

CW

[ben916]

Could be worse:
You could be on your second set of the DRC....wait... that already happened for EVERYONE already

Ok how about this one:
You could be on your 5th set of front rotors at 43k miles.
You could be on your 3rd steering column at 36k miles.
MMATURO has how many transmissions fail?

[CornersWell]

Ok, guys, here's the Post Script...

So, on the way to the shop to replace the brake light switch (which, btw, I HAD to do ASAP, as the brake lights were on all the time...even when the ignition was turned off), I picked up a torx bolt about 2" long in the left rear tire. But, wait...

They replace the brake light switch and... a bulb in the 3rd brake light was out. So, they replaced the bulb. But, then two others went out. I swear it was comical. Almost like whack-a-mole. They then plugged the tire. Fortunately, it was the left rear, which is now shot because of the alignment problem. And, I'm sent on my way. But, wait...

Driving home, I'm stuck it typical DC beltway traffic. Stop and go for MILES on the inner loop in the Tyson's area. As I'm on the exit ramp, the car cuts out on me. As in DEAD. Fortunately, I'm rolling so I get it into neutral, coast down the ramp and pull into a side street. Now, this is in the middle of Tgiving weekend traffic and rush hour (4pm). And, if anyone knows Tyson's Corner, VA, they'll know it's bad to begin with. However, it's currently a construction site. Yes, ALL of Tyson's is. So, there are concrete jersey barriers everywhere and no place to pull over. Had this actually happened on the beltway in stop and go traffic, I was FNCKED. And, so was everyone else, as I would have been completely broken down in a lane and no place to pull off on.

So, I shut everything down and try to re-start it. It cranks but it won't turn over. Fuel or spark? Well, I had the damn thing towed to the dealer. Their problem now. I'm f'in PISSED. And, I'm going car shopping this weekend. ENOUGH.

However, out of curiosity, any thoughts on the cause from our resident experts?

CW

[V8weight]

Sounds like sudden fuel pump death, or a engine speed sensor. Was there a sputter before it died, or did it just seemingly shut off? If the latter, my money is on the speed sensor. I've been watching your saga unfold, and have been thinking, "it's a good car, he's just having a bad run", but I think you're right. The car has obviously fallen in with the wrong crowd. Maybe time for a replacement.

[CornersWell]

Can't say if there was a sputter or it just cut out. Too much going on at once. Truck trying to come over on me. Cars merging in from right. Just insane. But, it's at the dealer and they can figure it out. But, I think I'm throwing in the towel. Great car, but too much BS.

CW

[DHall1]

I think its time to call Audi. I also agree that enough is enough.

Fuel pump going out on decel off the ramp? or electronics failure? Tough call and not enough info to determine. Will have to wait and see.

Oh crap the Phoenix traffic was nuts as was the I-10 traffic. Glad we are home this weekend.


Ok, guys, here's the Post Script...

So, on the way to the shop to replace the brake light switch (which, btw, I HAD to do ASAP, as the brake lights were on all the time...even when the ignition was turned off), I picked up a torx bolt about 2" long in the left rear tire. But, wait...

They replace the brake light switch and... a bulb in the 3rd brake light was out. So, they replaced the bulb. But, then two others went out. I swear it was comical. Almost like whack-a-mole. They then plugged the tire. Fortunately, it was the left rear, which is now shot because of the alignment problem. And, I'm sent on my way. But, wait...

Driving home, I'm stuck it typical DC beltway traffic. Stop and go for MILES on the inner loop in the Tyson's area. As I'm on the exit ramp, the car cuts out on me. As in DEAD. Fortunately, I'm rolling so I get it into neutral, coast down the ramp and pull into a side street. Now, this is in the middle of Tgiving weekend traffic and rush hour (4pm). And, if anyone knows Tyson's Corner, VA, they'll know it's bad to begin with. However, it's currently a construction site. Yes, ALL of Tyson's is. So, there are concrete jersey barriers everywhere and no place to pull over. Had this actually happened on the beltway in stop and go traffic, I was FNCKED. And, so was everyone else, as I would have been completely broken down in a lane and no place to pull off on.

So, I shut everything down and try to re-start it. It cranks but it won't turn over. Fuel or spark? Well, I had the damn thing towed to the dealer. Their problem now. I'm f'in PISSED. And, I'm going car shopping this weekend. ENOUGH.

However, out of curiosity, any thoughts on the cause from our resident experts?

CW

[CornersWell]

Car is sitting at dealer until Friday. I'll circle back once I know more. In the meantime, I'm figuring out where I'm going to shop for a new ride...

Cayenne GTS, maybe?

CW

[DHall1]

Dont you already have a RR Sport?

BTW, start a new thread with the subject header to catch some attention. Audi needs to know.

[CornersWell]

RR HSE SC'd in CO. RS6 is in VA.

I will link this thread to my "Is my car jinxed?" thread.

Yes, I'm getting VERY tired of stuff breaking down.

CW

[ben916]

RR HSE SC'd in CO. RS6 is in VA.

I will link this thread to my "Is my car jinxed?" thread.

Yes, I'm getting VERY tired of stuff breaking down.

CW

Trying to think of a way to get it "libertated" south of the border :) ...