Ok, is my car jinxed?

[CornersWell]

Now the Brake Vacuum Pump failed throwing the CEL (along with secondary air sensors). And, today, the ESP/ABS indicator light came on. I'm thinking they're related, and with the pump failure, the ABS wouldn't be working properly. So, that makes sense, but in the past 5 months, that's an alternator, torque converter and now the pump. Also, had the 55K service done in there. That's a LOT to go wrong in such a short period...

CW

[DHall1]

Most likely that fitting broke under the intake. Did the brake pedal get hard like you lost brake assist.

Make damn sure they replace all the injector o rings when they take your fuel rail off.

[V8weight]

Yep, replace injector O-rings (ask me how I know), and may as well do the secondary coolant pump at the same time. I feel for you, when it rains it pours with these cars.

[CornersWell]

Just as a follow up, see here...http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21808-Sanity-Check/

Brake Vacuum Pump was replaced. Alignment done to address strange wear pattern on rears. Then, next day, the brake switch light failed, I picked up a 2" torx bolt in my left rear AND the cars shut down on me exiting the highway. Don't yet know if it's electrical or fuel. But, if AoA or GmBH is listening...this car's beginning to be a real disappointment.

CW

[CornersWell]

BTW, V8, the shop said, "different problem and the warranty company won't cover it until the problem manifests." So, it's gotta break before it can be fixed! Maybe it broke again today?

CW

[FlipRS6]

Just as a follow up, see here...http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21808-Sanity-Check/

Brake Vacuum Pump was replaced. Alignment done to address strange wear pattern on rears. Then, next day, the brake switch light failed, I picked up a 2" torx bolt in my left rear AND the cars shut down on me exiting the highway. Don't yet know if it's electrical or fuel. But, if AoA or GmBH is listening...this car's beginning to be a real disappointment.

CW

Unbelieveable.... I cannot believe all of these things have happened one after another, i feel for ya bro... if i were in the same position the white towel would be thrown all the way in... I still havent had any problems with my car besides ordinary up-keep (knock on wood), but ever since joining this site about a month ago i have heard some absolute horror stories. Ignorance is truly bliss!!!!

You should have named this thread "when good cars go bad".... Just thought i would throw that out there

[DHall1]

With all the recent repairs there is always the chance that this last problem is related to the prev repairs. The intake manifold was off and you just got the car back. Could something have been left loose? Yes.


BTW, V8, the shop said, "different problem and the warranty company won't cover it until the problem manifests." So, it's gotta break before it can be fixed! Maybe it broke again today?

CW

[skribe]

Of course. Shit will go wrong. It will be expensive to fix. A 7-year-old car that carries 4 adults in comfort and does a 1/4 mile in the 12's is going to be pricey to maintain no matter how you slice it.

Everything comes at a cost. There is no free lunch in this world.

[FlipRS6]

Of course. Shit will go wrong. It will be expensive to fix. A 7-year-old car that carries 4 adults in comfort and does a 1/4 mile in the 12's is going to be pricey to maintain no matter how you slice it.

Everything comes at a cost. There is no free lunch in this world.

Without a doubt a $90,000 car is going to be expensive to fix, unfortunatly the parts for our cars dont depreciate with the overall value of our cars... However after dropping $10,000 in repairs and the car is still down and out, when do you cut your losses? Passion for the beast is the only motivating factor... If you dont absolutely love this car and your in CW's position what do you do?

[skribe]

If the cost of upkeep makes you nuts, then you have to move on. Things are going to go wrong. Sometimes one after another after another. That's life with an aging Audi, ask me how I know.

If it becomes too frustrating, buy something new with a warranty, like a BMW 550ix or Panamera or E63. Unfortunately Audi doesn't really offer a replacement for a C5 RS 6. Or get a second, less high-maintenance car to take some of the load off the RS.

What we're all dealing with are the running costs of an exotic car. That is what the RS 6 is, an exotic car that masquerades as an A6. Look under your hood. There's 8 lbs of engine jammed into a 5 lb sack.

[CornersWell]

Of course. Shit will go wrong. It will be expensive to fix. A 7-year-old car that carries 4 adults in comfort and does a 1/4 mile in the 12's is going to be pricey to maintain no matter how you slice it.

Everything comes at a cost. There is no free lunch in this world.

I can accept that things break. And, I admit to being frustrated by the seeming one-after-the-other issues. Things are breaking faster than I can fix them.

But, what I can't have is an unsafe, unreliable car. In particular, we're talking about a total shut down at highway speeds. The steering went heavy entering a turn. That could have turned out badly. And, frankly, a break down in rush hour traffic just having come from the shop is...unacceptable.

And, let's talk inconvenience factor. Since June, the car's been in the shop for nearly 30 days (10 for the alternator and 17 for the torque converter). Not to mention the endless hours I've spent waiting at the shop for on-the-spot repairs to be completed. And, driving to and from said shop. It's adding up, and I'm not liking the numbers...

But, let me also comment on the issue that this is a high-performance vehicle. Yes, it is. But, I have never had any significant problems with other high-performance vehicles I've owned. Not with our MB, Porsche or Ferrari products. Minor problems, yes, but not like these problems, anyway. The car is complicated. But, this isn't like they have to re-invent the wheel, either. Audi's products have been on the roads for a LONG time. They've had time to sort this out. And, frankly, it's embarrassing for them that today we have to put up with their flawed and poor designs. DRC? Torque Converter? Upper Control Links? Transmission? How many "known" flaws should we have to endure? Hell, Audi wouldn't even ADMIT there was a problem with the DRC until the class action suit. And, as I talk to the shop guys, the brake switch light is a "known" problem. As is the brake vacuum pump. As are LOTS of things. Too many, IMO, for an expensive vehicle. I don't know what you paid for yours, but I bought the car virtually new and early. So, I paid a lot. I therefore expect a lot.

I expect performance, reliability and safety. And, in the modern automotive world, performance doesn't mean you have to sacrifice the other two. But, more fundamentally, if I cannot feel confident that the car will get to my destination without breaking down, I can't take it out of the garage. It stranded me in a potentially dangerous way. That's enough to justify moving on in my book. If not, let me ask if you would feel comfortable letting your Wife, Mother, Daughter or Girlfriend drive a car that seems to be crumbling in front of your eyes?

For the record, I have an extended warranty. All of these repairs are being covered, save the deductibles. So, it's not really a cost of maintenance and repair problem. This is a reliability and safety issue.

CW

[DHall1]

Yep.

I would like to see what failed this time. This situation is not a normal occurrence in the life of most RS6's. I cant help feeling the recent repairs may have left something loose or broken. We shall see.

[skribe]

I've had lemons before. One of my GTIs was an utter failure from day one. It routinely shut itself down at speed. The dealership insisted nothing was wrong and that i must be stalling the car. I understand that is unforgivable in any car of any age. I dumped it a the dealership and refused to take it back in the end. Lemon-lawed a new one.

I would suspect the dealermonkeys f-ed something up during your last repair. Unfortunately that happens ALL the time.

The RS 6 is the first used car I've ever owned... I'm in it for 45k. So I'm 45k ahead of you... Knock on wood, my particular car has had very few problems. But I'm mentally prepared for inevitable frustrations...

And I also drive less than five miles on a typical day. In the summer, most days I don't even drive. I bike to a train. And I have three other cars to share the load. So I guess I can be a lot more forgiving than you.

Anyway, good luck senator. I would tend to think you'll get through this spot and have another batch of reliable miles. But the new car itch is what it is and it sounds like you have it!

[speedtrapped]

I bough my RS6 with the intention of it never being a DD. I have a newer and warranted S8. I'm sorry for your experience , I personally luv Audi. I have owned a 911, and I had to replace tranny seals, and other incidentals. I knew buying e beast was purely emotional, I guess if I was driving her 250 miles a week I would expect to fun into issues sooner rather then later. But sounds like you got 5-6 good? Years out of her?.. That's not bad considering. Take the dealership to task. Good luck on your next vehicle.

[CornersWell]

Update...

Dealer called. Blown fuse shut down the fuel injection. Problem will be to figure out why the fuse blew. Given that I've had SO much work done on the car in the recent months, it could take a while to diagnose. However, since they know which fuse blew, that should provide a start.

So, the partial listing of what's been done in the past few months:

Alternator
55K Service
Torque Converter
RNS-E, Bluetooth, XM and Dice iPod
Brake Vacuum Pump
Brake Switch Light

My money's on a cable getting pinched during the engine re-install after the TC replacement. What do you guys think?

CW

[DHall1]

Give us a time frame of driving between those service points.

My money is on the intake repair to change that brake booster fitting. The fuel rail was off as was the injectors. Pinch a line on the install and bingo. Leave a ground loose or off on the install and bingo. There is your problem. Shoddy tech.

Glad my car does not go in to Audi service but when and if it ever does. I have the name and number of a good guy I can trust. It goes right to him, I can run back and take a look anytime I need to and he calls me directly on my cell if anything comes up. The good ol fashioned way.

[JSRS6]

Fuses do just blow sometimes...might have just been it's time.

[CornersWell]

Alternator - July 2
55 K - September 3
Torque Converter - Oct 28
RNS-E - Completed Nov 17
Brake Vacuum Pump - Nov 23
Brake Switch Light - Nov 24

And, just to be clear, after the alternator debacle, I started taking the RS6 to a recommended local independent. They completed the 55K, Torque Converter, Brake Vacuum Pump and Brake Switch Light work. However, given all the issues I've been having I had it towed to another local dealer. I am personal friends with the service manager there. So, he's got a solid tech working on it.

I went over to have a look at how it was coming, and he was pointing out a LOT of things that weren't right. Damage, even. He showed me where the intake manifold had been dented. He showed me where the injector cable insulation had been worn through (but the wires seemed fine). He showed me where a screw on the back of the engine was broken (but he can't get to). Now, I'm not sure that we can identify who did that damage, but when this is all over, I'm going to have to ask a few questions of the guys that have been doing the service...

CW

[CornersWell]

Fuses do just blow sometimes...might have just been it's time.

Possible, yes. But, they're doing their sleuthing. We'll see if they find anything. If not, I'm going to have to carry a box of spares in case.

CW

[DHall1]

I think you have some answers to your questions.

I would get these issues fixed up and present the findings to the prev indy.

Most likely not the fault of the car on this last safety issue. Get her fixed up and start taking the car to people you know. There is a reason I and many others do our own wrenching at all costs.




Alternator - July 2
55 K - September 3
Torque Converter - Oct 28
RNS-E - Completed Nov 17
Brake Vacuum Pump - Nov 23
Brake Switch Light - Nov 24

And, just to be clear, after the alternator debacle, I started taking the RS6 to a recommended local independent. They completed the 55K, Torque Converter, Brake Vacuum Pump and Brake Switch Light work. However, given all the issues I've been having I had it towed to another local dealer. I am personal friends with the service manager there. So, he's got a solid tech working on it.

I went over to have a look at how it was coming, and he was pointing out a LOT of things that weren't right. Damage, even. He showed me where the intake manifold had been dented. He showed me where the injector cable insulation had been worn through (but the wires seemed fine). He showed me where a screw on the back of the engine was broken (but he can't get to). Now, I'm not sure that we can identify who did that damage, but when this is all over, I'm going to have to ask a few questions of the guys that have been doing the service...

CW

[JSRS6]

Possible, yes. But, they're doing their sleuthing. We'll see if they find anything. If not, I'm going to have to carry a box of spares in case.

CW

Perhaps I should start carrying some myself. Did you see the other thread about a get together/dyno day?

[CornersWell]

Perhaps I should start carrying some myself. Did you see the other thread about a get together/dyno day?

No. I'll check it out.

Thanks,

CW

[JSRS6]

No. I'll check it out.

Thanks,

CW

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21761-WTB-Looking-for-2-factory-rims-in-18x8.5-RS6-offset-condition-not-critical

No problem. And good luck with your beast.

[skribe]

Oh, I had to open my big stupid mouth. Hours later our Range Rover blows an obscure proprietary coolant tube and leaves us marooned in the Great White North. Only part that can be located is 300 miles away.

The Beast is in the shop getting reworked from the bad deer hit repair. Car number four is a project in pieces. Car number five is our only driver. Cut to family of four + 80lb dog jammed in barely muffled, overboosted, low and stiffly sprung new beetle autocross car.

Karma.

Corners, I guess it's good in a weird way to hear that your problems are more related to the people working on the car than the car itself...

While I was at the Rover dealership, I looked at the new Jag XJ Supersport in the showroom. Pretty blingy, but also pretty damn nice. Never been much of a Jag fan, but it was a pretty cool car, with supercharged V8. Didn't have one on hand I could drive.

[mmaturo]

As an over 5 year owner my list is FAR worse than anyone here. Everything that is supposed to break on an RS6 has...3 or 4 times (i'm on tranny #4) so anyway the love of the car keeps it in the garage. I still out run pretty much anything i want and otherwise the car still looks new even with 89K on the clock. Suck it up people. Its an RS6 it will break. If not ready for it then oh well. When i bought my car in early 05 it sat at the dealer getting fixed for one thing after another for 3 out of my first 4 months with it...it was a CPO 24K mile car. That's a WTF. But 7 years in since the build date and regardless of miles just time...its all going to fail at some point. Still on first alternator though.

I have been waiting for a proper replacement...RS5 will have to do I guess. Not interested in BMW, Porsche, or MB.

Main reason i posted though is that i have never felt that my RS6 was a safety problem. The car gave me plenty of warning even with complete transmission failure to get off the road and into my dealership...after going 500 miles on it, and everything else that broke never stopped me completely. It has never left me stranded...just frustrated.

[JSRS6]

Mtm s/c RS5? ;-)

[mmaturo]

Actually SEMA show had R8 V10 s/c....that's a big sluuurrrp.

[skribe]

Suck it up people. Its an RS6 it will break...

Well-stated by the poster child. If Mark sucked it up any more, he'd have that goofy Dyson guy reverse-engineering his face.

Point is, RS 6 ownership isn't rational.

[speedtrapped]

Being a newbie, as I stated at least for me pure emotional - and I don't put a price on my smile or the joy I get driving her..

[mmaturo]

Well-stated by the poster child. If Mark sucked it up any more, he'd have that goofy Dyson guy reverse-engineering his face.

Point is, RS 6 ownership isn't rational.

< golf clap : ) >

[CornersWell]

I can accept that the RS6 is a "complex" machine. However, I've owned plenty of complex machines that haven't had ANY problems. EVER. And, there's the issue. Why are we accepting Audi's inability to build a reliable product? We're not talking about some super-exotic or high-strung race car. We're talking about one of their most reliable engines that's been in-service for quite a while. We're talking about failures, for the most part, of stuff that is just annoying. And, my friend who is now running the dealer's service department spends a lot of his time talking with the AoA and GmBH guys. He's telling them the mechanicals are pretty good, but it's all the SENSORS that are the problem. Well, if they don't install good sensors, they're going to fail. I have yet to have any sensors on our MB products light off.

Now, the RS6 is a 7 year old car. So, time may be taking its toll. And, I do drive it as a daily. Unfortunately, the roads in the DC area are equivalent to those in Lahore, Pakistan. They are AWFUL. And, I can accept that they are taking a toll, too. But, if the car is literally falling apart around you (think Michael Keaton in Gung Ho), then the car is too fragile. Or poorly constructed. Or poorly engineered.

As to MMaturo's tale, I feel for you. I do. But, WHY are we putting up with this? I do think the RS6 is the best all-round car I've owned, which is why I don't want to part with it. But, the reality is that when it's down, it's a problem for me. And, it's down an increasing amount. At some point, and I think I've reached it, it's too much.

I went and had a look at the Cayenne GTS and Turbo. Competent. Fast. Ugly. FUGLY, in fact. And, other than buying another Range Rover, I've no idea what to replace the RS6 with. The RS5 is far enough off (and a two-door, anyway), that it's not going to work. I've considered an E63 wagon, but it's not AWD. I'm just going to have to see if the dealer can't sort out all these issues, and we'll go from there. But, there's one foot in the grave on the RS6 for me...

CW

[MaxRS6]

Actually SEMA show had R8 V10 s/c....that's a big sluuurrrp.

+1- That would be vedddy tempting if I didn't have food and shelter requirements..:)

My .02 worth- keep some spare fuses in the car- It is just good practice and has saved me from being stranded in various cars/boats. It is also fun when someone else has the issue, and you are able to produce one for them. The next thing you know, you are getting kudos and reputation points as always prepared- LOL

Brings back a story of keeping an old blown fuse in the car. Why??? Came in convenient for explanation to upset dad of girl taken home after curfew. Girl says: "But Dad- the car wouldn't start and he was able to fix it himself and get us out of a dangerous situation on the highway". Dad gives a pat on the back as the exhibited blown fuse slips back into pocket. Of course, this was pre cell-phones and any potential bo of my little girl be forewarned- "NO EXCUSES APPLY!!!!"- and daddy is a little crazzzzy...00

[CornersWell]

The irony of the thing is that I actually have a small box of spare fuses in the car. Of course, the problem would have been figuring all this out without a VAG on-site.

CW

[skribe]

Your mileage may vary. Brand new 458 italias are burning to the ground. I have a friend who has the identical range rover down to the color as ours. They've had nothing but problems, we've had literally none until a coolant hose failed -- at 100k miles. (We drive the RR to our weekend house and roll up a ton of hwy miles)

I have a friend who's 2009 e63 was an unbelievable POS and eventually declared a lemon.

Everyone knows VAG cars will burn through sensors as they age. I doubt your doors wheels and fenders are falling off.

You need to buy a new car. Black panamera on dark 21s actually looks good in a strange way. Or go 550xi. Or go look at the XJ Supersport.

[speedtrapped]

CW, what about a late model S8? Or just done with Audi ? You can pick up a an 07',-09' for a great price. Bigger car, but comparatively weighs as much as beast(all aluminum frame). The v10 is sweet, and there is a tune for it. It is a blast to drive, I'm 6-4" and I can get wife and 3 kids seated comfortably. Handles well, I have not had issue, and you can pick up CPO. I bought mine, 07' with 21k miles for $57k back in late April, now I switch week to week between RS6 and the S8, just thought.

[speedtrapped]

Btw, I luv the jag look, and will wait till it gets thru it's 1st round of leasing to p/u on the cheap at auction, supercharged of course

[mmaturo]

I can accept that the RS6 is a "complex" machine. However, I've owned plenty of complex machines that haven't had ANY problems. EVER. And, there's the issue. Why are we accepting Audi's inability to build a reliable product? We're not talking about some super-exotic or high-strung race car. We're talking about one of their most reliable engines that's been in-service for quite a while. We're talking about failures, for the most part, of stuff that is just annoying. And, my friend who is now running the dealer's service department spends a lot of his time talking with the AoA and GmBH guys. He's telling them the mechanicals are pretty good, but it's all the SENSORS that are the problem. Well, if they don't install good sensors, they're going to fail. I have yet to have any sensors on our MB products light off.

Now, the RS6 is a 7 year old car. So, time may be taking its toll. And, I do drive it as a daily. Unfortunately, the roads in the DC area are equivalent to those in Lahore, Pakistan. They are AWFUL. And, I can accept that they are taking a toll, too. But, if the car is literally falling apart around you (think Michael Keaton in Gung Ho), then the car is too fragile. Or poorly constructed. Or poorly engineered.

As to MMaturo's tale, I feel for you. I do. But, WHY are we putting up with this? I do think the RS6 is the best all-round car I've owned, which is why I don't want to part with it. But, the reality is that when it's down, it's a problem for me. And, it's down an increasing amount. At some point, and I think I've reached it, it's too much.


CW

Well here is the difference between the RS6 and other complex cars you may have owned...besides Porsche that I could think of even then few seen in winter no one drives a Ferrari daily and no one drives otherwise exotic cars on the crap roads you and i both share all year. Back in April I bought a used TT to use daily and take the load off the RS6. I have not put a penny into the RS6 this year since, although i did just discover two torn front outer CV boots that will cost me $250ea at the indy shop. But over the last 14 months after I have replaced every damn part on the car it has been fine, including my recall version DRC. So nothing has broken (just jinxed the hell out of myself)...I think your car is hitting the sweet spot of failures that I just passed last spring in mine and had the car in the shop once a month from Jan-July...fortunately for me all of it right before my CPO warranty expired...now I'm on my own since last June but again nothing has broken since so its getting tempting to just keep going with it and enjoy it on the weekends or in really crappy weather. That real fix of the DRC finally alone has saved control arms and bushings everywhere. The problem here is that we are expecting the RS6 to act as a daily driver even though it really wasn't built for that level of abuse in our world anyway...bad roads destroyed my car...if it spent its life in Germany on the Autobahn I am sure I would really have had 50% less issues.

Besides the DRC being a complete engineering failure it is the transmission and torque converter I am mad at Audi for not designing it up to the task or more so not reengineering it after all the really early failures. No excuse for that and its still the only problem i am worried about. The engine and turbos are bullet proof. As for sensors everywhere I must be lucky on those in all of my Audis as they never have failed me...except about a dozen airbag sensors in the RS.

[CornersWell]

To be fair, I don't use the Ferraris on a daily basis. But, we do use several MBs (E500 4matics) and the Range Rover on a daily basis. It's always possible to get a lemon, but this RS6 has been pretty reliable from the day I bought it. Time and wear and tear could account for the current issues, BUT I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't and that we should expect more from Audi. Better reliability. Better engineering. If you pull stuff out, it's VAG product, which means, for the most part, it was designed and manufactured to go into VWs. Cars that cost a third of the RS6. Maybe that's why the sensors keep failing?

Anyway, I've really tried hard to find something I like. I considered the S8, which I thought would be a good replacement, but for my driving (a fair bit on tight city streets), it's just too cumbersome and not nimble enough. To be honest, I'm thinking of just going down to a C-class 4matic wagon for my daily and picking up a CLK63 Black Series for my fun car. The roads are impassable for Ferraris, though, so they'll remain on the lifts or in the warehouse.

CW

[skribe]

Ferraris in the warehouse? Shit, just get a moller skycar or a Sikorsky x2 and be done with it :)

[CornersWell]

Airspace in DC is restricted. Can't even get CLOSE!

Stuck on the ground,

CW

[Hy Octane]

Wanna feel better? Look up the insane amount of replacements and failures I have had.. Took me 7 years and 70k miles to get the thing reliable.. It has finally started working properly .... I can relate..

[CornersWell]

Yes, I know that a couple of you guys have had issues. I've been lucky, for the most part, until now. I just don't want to have to deal with a troubled child...

CW

[V8weight]

To be fair, I don't use the Ferraris on a daily basis. But, we do use several MBs (E500 4matics) and the Range Rover on a daily basis. It's always possible to get a lemon, but this RS6 has been pretty reliable from the day I bought it. Time and wear and tear could account for the current issues, BUT I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't and that we should expect more from Audi. Better reliability. Better engineering. If you pull stuff out, it's VAG product, which means, for the most part, it was designed and manufactured to go into VWs. Cars that cost a third of the RS6. Maybe that's why the sensors keep failing?

Anyway, I've really tried hard to find something I like. I considered the S8, which I thought would be a good replacement, but for my driving (a fair bit on tight city streets), it's just too cumbersome and not nimble enough. To be honest, I'm thinking of just going down to a C-class 4matic wagon for my daily and picking up a CLK63 Black Series for my fun car. The roads are impassable for Ferraris, though, so they'll remain on the lifts or in the warehouse.

CW
CW, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head here. While the RS6 was a $90k car, it is essentially built out of $50k car parts. The body and engine electronics are essentially all carried over from a regular A6 chassis, and most of the engine sensors and electronics are borrowed from the TT225. These things aren't really as complex as they seem, and the "hand built" theme is laughable. These cars started out as S6 sedans, and were fully assembled and actually driven to the GMBH factory, where the standard drivetrain was removed, and the car was rather brutally modified to accommodate the RS6 drivetrain and accessories. It shows when you start to tear into the car and realize that it's made out of regular A6 parts that were crudely cut and clearanced for additional tubes and hoses.

I can relate to the problems you've been having as well, it would seem that the planned obsolescence of this car is about 60k miles. From 60k to 80k miles my car has had a mind boggling list of failures:
DRC replaced with KW V3's 58,790
Front/rear brake pads 59,000
Climate control blower motor 59,200
Diverter valves 60,493
Evap purge valve 60,842
Torque converter 60,909
N75 valve 61,391
Primary O2 sensors 62,461
Secondary O2 sensors 63,657
Right downpipe 66,017
Left downpipe 67,908
After run coolant pump 72,642
Drivers door latch 72,642
Front rotors, pads 77,490
Windshield water deflector 82,000
Alternator 84,423
EGT sensors 85,366
MAF sensors, seals, FPR, 87,105
Injector O-rings, PCV pressure regulating valves 87,302.

And this doesn't include any of the maintenance or upgrades that I've made to the car along the way. At the moment, my car needs to have the HVAC control unit and flapper replaced, as well as the front control arms, fuel tank, and one fuel injector to be right. I don't know why I put up with this, perhaps this car stood for some kind of achievement for me being young as I am, and I cannot seem to admit that it's been worse for me than any drug addiction ever could. Like everyone else, I can't imagine what I would replace it with, anything else would be a disappointment in comparison to what I get out of this car. But to be quite honest, I think your troubles with this car are far from over, maybe just beginning.

[JSRS6]

CW, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head here. While the RS6 was a $90k car, it is essentially built out of $50k car parts. The body and engine electronics are essentially all carried over from a regular A6 chassis, and most of the engine sensors and electronics are borrowed from the TT225. These things aren't really as complex as they seem, and the "hand built" theme is laughable. These cars started out as S6 sedans, and were fully assembled and actually driven to the GMBH factory, where the standard drivetrain was removed, and the car was rather brutally modified to accommodate the RS6 drivetrain and accessories. It shows when you start to tear into the car and realize that it's made out of regular A6 parts that were crudely cut and clearanced for additional tubes and hoses.

I can relate to the problems you've been having as well, it would seem that the planned obsolescence of this car is about 60k miles. From 60k to 80k miles my car has had a mind boggling list of failures:
DRC replaced with KW V3's 58,790
Front/rear brake pads 59,000
Climate control blower motor 59,200
Diverter valves 60,493
Evap purge valve 60,842
Torque converter 60,909
N75 valve 61,391
Primary O2 sensors 62,461
Secondary O2 sensors 63,657
Right downpipe 66,017
Left downpipe 67,908
After run coolant pump 72,642
Drivers door latch 72,642
Front rotors, pads 77,490
Windshield water deflector 82,000
Alternator 84,423
EGT sensors 85,366
MAF sensors, seals, FPR, 87,105
Injector O-rings, PCV pressure regulating valves 87,302.

And this doesn't include any of the maintenance or upgrades that I've made to the car along the way. At the moment, my car needs to have the HVAC control unit and flapper replaced, as well as the front control arms and a fuel injector to be right. I don't know why I put up with this, perhaps this car stood for some kind of achievement for me being young as I am, and I cannot seem to admit that it's been worse for me than any drug addiction ever could. Like everyone else, I can't imagine what I would replace it with, anything else would be a disappointment in comparison to what I get out of this car. But to be quite honest, I think your troubles with this car are far from over, maybe just beginning.

I was gonna wait until I installed them to give my evaluation, but like I said in the other thread, I just got all 4 upper control arms from fcp for 75 bucks. And I was gonna ask something else, but I'll pm it.

[DHall1]

Mark,

I think you may be on to something here. When used as a daily driver in harsh or rough climates there seem to be more failures.

In 2 1/2 years my car has been to the dealer 1 time. And that was for the updated DRC campaign. I may drive it 2 or 3 times per week or not at all. Also, I think a long commute is fun in the RS6 but you will pay a price down the road as the miles start to rack up and the failures come hot and heavy. IMHO driving a less expensive long mileage vehicle if you have a long commute will pay off by saving the RS for more years of pleasure driving. As Mark has now done.



Well here is the difference between the RS6 and other complex cars you may have owned...besides Porsche that I could think of even then few seen in winter no one drives a Ferrari daily and no one drives otherwise exotic cars on the crap roads you and i both share all year. Back in April I bought a used TT to use daily and take the load off the RS6. I have not put a penny into the RS6 this year since, although i did just discover two torn front outer CV boots that will cost me $250ea at the indy shop. But over the last 14 months after I have replaced every damn part on the car it has been fine, including my recall version DRC. So nothing has broken (just jinxed the hell out of myself)...I think your car is hitting the sweet spot of failures that I just passed last spring in mine and had the car in the shop once a month from Jan-July...fortunately for me all of it right before my CPO warranty expired...now I'm on my own since last June but again nothing has broken since so its getting tempting to just keep going with it and enjoy it on the weekends or in really crappy weather. That real fix of the DRC finally alone has saved control arms and bushings everywhere. The problem here is that we are expecting the RS6 to act as a daily driver even though it really wasn't built for that level of abuse in our world anyway...bad roads destroyed my car...if it spent its life in Germany on the Autobahn I am sure I would really have had 50% less issues.

Besides the DRC being a complete engineering failure it is the transmission and torque converter I am mad at Audi for not designing it up to the task or more so not reengineering it after all the really early failures. No excuse for that and its still the only problem i am worried about. The engine and turbos are bullet proof. As for sensors everywhere I must be lucky on those in all of my Audis as they never have failed me...except about a dozen airbag sensors in the RS.

[CornersWell]

It may be correct that the RS6 is just too fragile to drive daily. However, then, I need to ask the question: how come MB (AMG's E55 and E63) and BMW (Motorsport's M5) products don't suffer the same frailties? Notwithstanding DHall's E55 fuel tank issue.

For example, I had an E55 prior to the RS6. Not a single issue. NOT ONE. I haven't had a BMW product in 20 years, due mainly to the fact that the local dealers are completely incompetent when it comes to service (not to mention they're inconveniently located to me). So, I can't comment with great knowledge or specificity, but I don't recall hearing about M5 nightmares.

CW

[Stephencl]

CW,

I think that mileage is a key issue...as well as just having a random car.I have had my car since 2005 and 15K miles. Other than the DRC failure, a torn CV boot and an alternator, I have not had any real issues. I drive it as a daily driver when I am around.

I have heard of folks with E55's that have had similar horror stories to your car, so I am sure it is not limited to just Audi. Also, the parts of an E55 are just normal E-Class parts with the AMG engine, just like the Audi bits are A6.

Finally an interesting comment on the Ferrari front, most Ferrari repairs are a result of them NOT being driven enough. Cam seals, shock seals and belts are the most common replacement/repair items. Most needing to be replaced because they are not driven enough. I had a friend that drove his 456 every day, drove like a top with little issue other than standard maintanence.

We live in a damned if we do, damned if we dont world when it comes to our cars....

Stephen

[CornersWell]

CW,

I think that mileage is a key issue...as well as just having a random car.I have had my car since 2005 and 15K miles. Other than the DRC failure, a torn CV boot and an alternator, I have not had any real issues. I drive it as a daily driver when I am around.

I have heard of folks with E55's that have had similar horror stories to your car, so I am sure it is not limited to just Audi. Also, the parts of an E55 are just normal E-Class parts with the AMG engine, just like the Audi bits are A6.

Finally an interesting comment on the Ferrari front, most Ferrari repairs are a result of them NOT being driven enough. Cam seals, shock seals and belts are the most common replacement/repair items. Most needing to be replaced because they are not driven enough. I had a friend that drove his 456 every day, drove like a top with little issue other than standard maintanence.

We live in a damned if we do, damned if we dont world when it comes to our cars....

Stephen

I don't disagree with anything you've written. And, I always enjoy getting the Ferraris out. But, at the moment, NoVA is one big construction site. Frankly, it's AWFUL. Between the new Metro line going out to Dulles, the widening of the beltway for pay lanes, and the 95/495/395 mixing bowl (not to mention the recently completed Wilson Bridge), there's no way to get anywhere without going through one. It's a war zone. Looks like Kabul.

I can only be hopeful that the dealer can straighten it all out once and for all.

CW

[speedtrapped]

i just drove thru there last night, my god what a mess! I really feel for u CW, thankfully I was traveling @ 430am and no one was on the road

[JSRS6]

Yeah, try Halloween weekend.

[Hy Octane]

Since I made the decision to stop driving my RS6 aggressively and just treat it as a regular DD car, the problems seem to have slowed way down.. Wear and Tear seem to have diminished somewhat .. basically, this car wasnt built out of specially designed high performance parts that could handle the stress loads the car was advertised to be able to do... Had they tested it for a few years before release, they would have never released it. Now, its a brown stain on the underwear at GMBH.

[DHall1]

I can deal with RS6 wear and tear items that take a load while delivering 500+hp to the pavement, around corners, braking, and general performance driving. That is why I got the car and I expect the brakes, suspension bushings, shocks, transmission clutches(60-80k of life), and engine sensors(75-100k) to last for a reasonable amount of time. My car has never left me stranded or suffered a major failure that left me in danger.

I cannot say that about MB products or our E55 AMG W211. Nor can I say the response from MB USA AMG department was anything other than worthless and degrading. We purchased our AMG right from the showroom and got the best extended warranty they had to offer. Yet, MB kicks the can down the road and puts owners of topline AMG products in danger. Never again.

[CornersWell]

Stand by, guys. Dealer's service advisor and I exchanged voicemails today. I need to go out and see what he's talking about before I make any further comment. I should know more tomorrow...

CW

[hahnmgh63]

Although, does everyone remember what a short memory Audi had about the DRC. They looked the other way for at least 2 to 3 years after the standard factory warranties expired. And they denined, denied, and denied there were any DRC problems. I think it was that many of us that had complained to NHSTA and to the BBB with mulitple complaints were the reason Audi recognized a problem. They still deny there are problems with the B7 RS4 DRC. Go to the RS4 forums and hear those guys complain about DRC, it is awful, and sounds like where we were 2 to 4 years ago.

[CornersWell]

Ok, all, I want to give the indy shop that did the work, the opportunity to make this right. I've spoken to the owner, and they said they will. However, this is a mistake that can be made due to the fact that the cables are identical...

The major problem, according to the dealer, was that the Brake Vacuum Pump and the Coolant Recirculating Valve cables (identical connectors) were somehow connected improperly when everything went back together after the TC repair. This caused the brake vacuum pump to fail in the first place. And, now the replacement brake vacuum pump has burned out. After just one day in service.

There were a few other small issues, but the dealer is confident that that's what caused the fuse to burn and the fuel injection system to shut down. Easy fix. But, a LOT of time to diagnose.

Anyway, should be back up tomorrow. Then, I need to start sorting out another, unrelated problem (RNS-E is draining the battery even when car is turned off) they identified.

Never ends....

CW

[JSRS6]

I remember somebody else having the same problem with their Rns-e recently. Anyone else?

[DHall1]

I agree that AoA has not made the best of choices in the past. But as Qisha told us last year....Audi was working with the shock manuf to fix the problem and that took some time. In the end the new updated struts and special tool have fixed almost all the cars involved. My car has been perfect from day 1 of the new updated repair. It performs fantastic.

I also think the RS4 guys got a recall and update notice just recently. So hopefully those guys are fixed up as well.


Although, does everyone remember what a short memory Audi had about the DRC. They looked the other way for at least 2 to 3 years after the standard factory warranties expired. And they denined, denied, and denied there were any DRC problems. I think it was that many of us that had complained to NHSTA and to the BBB with mulitple complaints were the reason Audi recognized a problem. They still deny there are problems with the B7 RS4 DRC. Go to the RS4 forums and hear those guys complain about DRC, it is awful, and sounds like where we were 2 to 4 years ago.

[CornersWell]

Car is back. The service advisor was out sick today, so I just picked it up without speaking to him. I understand they found another mis-connected wire in addition to the one that was already identified. So, I hope it's all sorted. We'll see...

The service advisor had written up all that they had found, but I haven't received it yet. As soon as I do, I will take that and the invoice over to the indy and request reimbursement. Again, we'll see...

CW

[CornersWell]

Ok, so I had a chance to sit down with the tech and the service advisor and go over everything. Here's what was done incorrectly by the indy shop:

During the torque converter repair, when the motor was re-installed, several wires were cross-connected. The first mistake was when the Brake Vacuum Pump cable was cross-connected to the Coolant Recirculation Valve and vice versa. The second mistake was when the EVAP cable was cross-connected to the turbo by-pass valve connection. These mis-connected cables caused the fuse for the fuel injection system to blow, shutting the whole car down.

Also as a result of the mis-connections, the Brake Vacuum Pump was burned out. Not once, but twice. And, the Brake Light Switch that was replaced was replaced with an after-market part that does not fit properly, throwing more error codes. So, now it's time to go back to the indy for reimbursement.

The good news is that the torque converter is working properly and the car has thrown no codes for three days, now! Dare I say that I may be over the hump? Let's not tempt fate...

CW

[MaxRS6]

Congrats CW!

[CornersWell]

Not there, yet, but I'm hoping...

CW

[ttboost]

Congrats on the good news and good luck at the Indy. Let us know if you need bail money!!! Stupid how the harness connectors (that are in close proximity of one another) have the same end connectors allowing a mis-connection? How could Audi do something this stupid...knowing the reprocussions?

[marklar182]

Regarding the RNS-E drain, I thought I had this issue, but it was actually a bad battery. Coincidentally I had just installed the RNS-E. Replaced the battery and have been ok since.

As for the RNS-E drain, be aware that the RNS-E does not fully power down when you turn the key off. It will keep its fan going to cool down, and then it is in a wait mode so if you come back to the car and take off it will not have to fully boot. These characteristics will show some battery drain when the key is off, but is normal.

The main battery drain issue people have with the RNS-E is related to the Bose Amps. If you do not have the harness wired correctly, the bose amps will never shut off. If the Bose amp pin is not connected to the switched 12V pin ,the amps will run continuously. The way I checked mine was to turn off the car, crawl into the trunk (doors all closed), lock the car with the remote and then listen to the bose subwoofer. In ~5min you should hear the amp turn off. If not then you need to check the wiring.

[speedtrapped]

CW very happy for you, fingers xxxx

[V8weight]

Congrats on the good news and good luck at the Indy. Let us know if you need bail money!!! Stupid how the harness connectors (that are in close proximity of one another) have the same end connectors allowing a mis-connection? How could Audi do something this stupid...knowing the reprocussions?
Unfortunately, this can happen all too easily. The N249 valve pigtail and the Secondary air injection actuator valve have the same plug shape, and are all green as well. Since the N249 receives power from the fuel pump circuit (among other actuators and valves in this area) it's first line of defense when a connection is crossed is to blow the fuel injection/fuel pump fuse. I could see how this mistake could have happened, that doesn't make it right. When they got the car buttoned up, it wouldn't have passed readiness, they obviously neglected to check.

[DHall1]

And we wonder why so many of us perform so much maint and repair on our own cars. Up to and including the full timing belt service.

I have made a special effort to personally speak to and get contact lines of communication with the RS tech at my local dealer. If and when I need dealer service he gets my car and we have an agreement. It helps to make it personal.


Unfortunately, this can happen all too easily. The N249 valve pigtail and the Secondary air injection actuator valve have the same plug shape, and are all green as well. Since the N249 receives power from the fuel pump circuit (among other actuators and valves in this area) it's first line of defense when a connection is crossed is to blow the fuel injection/fuel pump fuse. I could see how this mistake could have happened, that doesn't make it right. When they got the car buttoned up, it wouldn't have passed readiness, they obviously neglected to check.

[CornersWell]

I can understand that things get connected wrong if they look alike. However, I would expect that that would be checked and double checked, especially if there's even the remotest possibility of crossing cable connections. I guess checking today means when the key turns the car starts?

CW

[MaxRS6]

I can understand that things get connected wrong if they look alike. However, I would expect that that would be checked and double checked, especially if there's even the remotest possibility of crossing cable connections. I guess checking today means when the key turns the car starts? CW

+1- One expects and should receive professional service for services paid (I know it is a crazy idea these days)-LOL

Maybe you should send the idjuit tech one of these (or crayons) that could be utilized to make sure the connections are put back to their correct positions if there is risk of confusion.

http://www.deltamedia.com/images/items/16LBLCAS01.jpg

[CornersWell]

So, guys, update...

No CELs or other codes have been thrown in the last week. So, with fingers crossed, I'm thinking we're in the clear, which is good.

I also circled back to the indy shop yesterday to discuss the whole episode with the owner. He asked me what I thought would be fair, and that the only issue he had was that he had hoped to have had the chance to sort it out, in-house. There is a $30/hr labor rate differential between his shop and the dealer. So, I said I'd eat the differential in the labor hours. He cut me a check for the balance, and I'm good with that.

So, next issue that pops up, do i go back and try the indy, again? Or, do I just go to the dealer? I'll tell you my conclusion, but I'm interested in hearing all your thoughts...

CW

[Fraba]

CW,

That Indy has a pretty good reputation. I have to think the next time you went in there, they'd be paying attention (including the owner) and bring their A-game (this time). I also have to think that cross-connecting wires is a mistake you only make once. I could see the arguments for going either way. I'm not a zero-defect type of guy, but unfortunately our cars are....generally unforgiving.

PH

[ttboost]

If he stepped up to make it right, he's OK in my book. Give him another try. He knows how you work and you know how he works. Worth another shot. He will likely be more careful next time with you and hopefully with everyone else as well.