RS5 | M3 [Autocar]

[inF]

Now this is a nice one: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/audi-rs5-vs-bmw-m3-video/http://www.qtl.co.il/img/trans.png

[darkop]

Now this is a nice one: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/audi-rs5-vs-bmw-m3-video/http://www.qtl.co.il/img/trans.png
Buddie, where have you been 'till now?
It's been already discussed in here: http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/19500-The-Audi-RS5-will-debut-at-Geneva-2010/page50

[ZeroRisk]

Yes, it's a great vid though. Certainly set the forums on fire - the BMW lovers are crying from the rooftops! LOL

[Joker]

Yes, it's a great vid though. Certainly set the forums on fire - the BMW lovers are crying from the rooftops! LOL

It's probably one of the few occasions where a course has played to the RS5's strengths. Usually these comparisons have taken place on smooth traditional race tracks that play into the hands of the M3.

Though there's still no denying that the M3 would be more fun.

[tailpipe]

The latest M3 is undoubtedly a fine car as the last one was. I ought to know, because I owned an E46 M3 for several years. I even managed to drive from London to Rome in 17 hours. I did this during the summer months when the roads were mostly dry and flat.

In winter, the M3 came badly unstuck. The rear end would lose traction very quickly. I'd go as far as to say that driving an M3 in snow is probably dangerous without chains. One terrifying drive converted me to Audi and the RS4. Although my experience with this car was much more limited, its winter pace was nothing short of astonishing. You didn't need chains unless the weather was really atrocious. But it did have an achilles heel, which was fuel consumption and tank capacity. On a fast run, you could find yourself stopping every 90 minutes. (Slight exaggeration, but it wasn't good.)

The new RS5 takes the RS4 canvas and paints a masterpiece. It improves fuel economy and range. It also provides better better handling and traction. In my opinion, it is also much better built with higher quality materials. So, even in the few areas where the M3 eclipses it, i.e. in a straight line on a dry road, for my money the RS5 is a better all-round, all-year car. What infuriates me about the RS5 is Audi trying to beat BMW at its own game. Why bother? I much preferred the extra practicality and discreet presence of an Avant rather than a 2-door coupe. The RS5 would have been fine if Audi had released an RS4 too, but for some reason it was happy to see Mercedes-Benz scoop the honours for the fastest 3-Series segment wagon with the C63. I hope that whoever was responsible for this decision has now been banished to Skoda. Fortunately, Audi has seen the error of its ways and an RS4 is now under development.

In a world of increasing petrol prices and green conscientiousness, the only thing not to like about the RS5 is its naturally aspirated V8. A V8 twin-turbo would offer more power and greater economy. However, turbo lag may no longer be an issue, but it certainly isn't a problem with the V8 4.2 litre engine.

[darkop]

Looks like more and more lap times popping out where the RS5 beats the M3.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/laptimes/4cdb91071ab18.html

Both done almost at very same time...
Cheers

[darkop]

Further to previous post, A Video from the same track where it's shown who's the Boss!


http://www.wat.tv/video/essai-gt-mercedes-c63-amg-35vyx_2flv9_.html

[Z07]

Looks like more and more lap times popping out where the RS5 beats the M3.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/laptimes/4cdb91071ab18.html

Both done almost at very same time...
Cheers
It beat the M3 by 0.1s round Bedford Autodrome in the latest issue of Evo too but they didn't like the steering feel.

[darkop]

It beat the M3 by 0.1s round Bedford Autodrome in the latest issue of Evo too but they didn't like the steering feel.
That's quite enough for me! I have yet to see a publication where an Audi beats a BMW in steering feel, and it doesn't make it a wrong car since you really have to love and own an Audi
to really appreciate a steering feel of it and learn that it's not bad at all, but it has its own flavor and charisma...
Cheers

[ZeroRisk]

Further to previous post, A Video from the same track where it's shown who's the Boss!


http://www.wat.tv/video/essai-gt-mercedes-c63-amg-35vyx_2flv9_.html

Thanks Darkop.

Damn - it's times like these I wish I wasn't an ignorant Australian who can only speak English! Anyone care to give me an executive summary of what they were saying???

[EKaru]

Disappointing showing in CAR magazine


The top of the mag cover reads;
"Audi RS5|Flattened by the M3, C63 and Lexus...

Well since you want to be spoiled here are the rankings. They RIPPED the Audi RS5 and can't believe the people that signed off on the R8 signed off on the RS5.

1. M3 (5 stars)- As tested-61,630 base-53,275
2. C63 (5 stars)-As tested-64,025 base-57,105
3. IS F (4 stars)-As tested-57,480-base-52,925
4. RS5 (3 stars)-As tested-74,510-base-57,480

(price in pounds, note at the end of the test CAR lists the base price with the specs, while the as tested price is in the article, odd)

Basically the M3 is the best driving car here but they also feel the interior is well done (must be a Euro thing). They love the C63's power and straight forwardness (no adjustable anything). They love the IS F for being "more than the sum of its parts" but don't like the interior and the felt the ride is good for the track, not the road.

The RS5 they felt wasn't well balanced, didn't steer well, wasn't a fan of the ride and wasn't engaging with too many electronics and systems. They did like the high quality interior.

Summary;

"Put simply it (M3) simply still the one that puts the biggest grin on your face and both Pulman and I score it highest. The Merc can hold its head high and there's still much to recommend the third placed Lexus. For Audi, however, it's back to the drawing board.

Article is not online yet.

[Ritchy]

Thanks Darkop.

Damn - it's times like these I wish I wasn't an ignorant Australian who can only speak English! Anyone care to give me an executive summary of what they were saying???

Of course....all the time you support my poor english :jlol: Happy to be helpfull !

So....out of the usual qualties (fun with the BMW, power with the C63....) the 2 most important things are:

- the RS5 is the winner on the track (of course each one tried seperately) 2. M3 3. C63

- the driver of the M3 says he can not do aything on the straight lines, where he feels the RS5 more powerfull, and of course the C63 well ahead.

I'm not sure about that, but the red calipers on the C63 makes me think about the 487HP performance pack version...

[ZeroRisk]

Thank you Ritchy - much appreciated! :hey:

Nice to hear of another positive review for the RS5 too.

[Joker]

That's quite enough for me! I have yet to see a publication where an Audi beats a BMW in steering feel, and it doesn't make it a wrong car since you really have to love and own an Audi
to really appreciate a steering feel of it and learn that it's not bad at all, but it has its own flavor and charisma...
Cheers

I haven't seen the EVO test yet but I wonder has it too been tested with the standard 19" instead of the 20" that almost all European tests have been done with? The reason I ask is because I haven't seen the same disappointment in it's ride when equipped with the smaller wheels nor have we seen the Competition package M3 actually beat it on the track with the smaller diameter rims.

Steering feel is something you get use to when driving an Audi, it isn't as good as most other stuff, partly to do with the engine placement, partly to do with the front wheels also doing some of the work of the engine but frankly it's a small price to pay for a car which gives tremendous traction out of corners, superior confidence to push harder and the added safety in adverse conditions.

[Z07]

I haven't seen the EVO test yet but I wonder has it too been tested with the standard 19" instead of the 20" that almost all European tests have been done with? The reason I ask is because I haven't seen the same disappointment in it's ride when equipped with the smaller wheels nor have we seen the Competition package M3 actually beat it on the track with the smaller diameter rims.

Steering feel is something you get use to when driving an Audi, it isn't as good as most other stuff, partly to do with the engine placement, partly to do with the front wheels also doing some of the work of the engine but frankly it's a small price to pay for a car which gives tremendous traction out of corners, superior confidence to push harder and the added safety in adverse conditions.
I agree. For the record, the Evo test was with 20in wheels.

I thought Audi were now placing the engine behind the front axle with the newer cars like the RS5???

[Joker]

I agree. For the record, the Evo test was with 20in wheels.

I thought Audi were now placing the engine behind the front axle with the newer cars like the RS5???

If their RS5 had the 20" then how did they find the ride?

Also you are right about where the engine is now, but I think it's the axle that moved forward instead of the engine moving back and I believe they repositioned the steering rake in an effort to improve feel, but I don't notice much of a different though the cars are less prone to understeer so they are doing something right.

[Z07]

If their RS5 had the 20" then how did they find the ride?

Also you are right about where the engine is now, but I think it's the axle that moved forward instead of the engine moving back and I believe they repositioned the steering rake in an effort to improve feel, but I don't notice much of a different though the cars are less prone to understeer so they are doing something right.
They didn't like the ride or the steering feel but then there's still a lot of capability there.



The RS5's ride never feels settled, which is a disappointment because the damping of the RS4 was its outstanding feature.

[Joker]

They didn't like the ride or the steering feel but then there's still a lot of capability there.

I'm not a lover of increasing rim diameter because of this very problem. Anyhow the 19" are still a pretty rim.

[AreEss5]

I hate to love this car, but the honest truth is that I love it. It looks amazing and definitely sounds great. I just wish the BMW looked as good as the RS5 because I adore the M3. It truly is a hard choice between the two for me because M3s have been around for a long time and has kept that heritage. If I were purchasing one of the two, it comes down to which dealer can offer me the best deal.

[youry]

for me they don't target the same needs. if you are a good driver and want to play with it sliding.... M3. if you like driving safety RS5.... performancewise is basically about the same... that is how I should summarize both cars...

[darkop]

More track times where RS5 got owned by the M3! :hihi:

http://www.cartweak.com/scans-genroq-japan-12011-911-3-6l-vs-audi-rs5-vs-bmw-m3.html
:hey:

[ZeroRisk]

More track times where RS5 got owned by the M3! :hihi:

NOT!!!

:harass: the "King of the Coupes" is starting to look more and more wobbly on its throne as the growing body of test results start to speak for themselves. :hahahehe:

[darkop]

NOT!!!

:harass: the "King of the Coupes" is starting to look more and more wobbly on its throne as the growing body of test results start to speak for themselves. :hahahehe:

yep. The list is getting longer and longer...

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/audi_rs_5-vs-bmw_m3_e92_dkg.html

Enjoy your car!

[Joker]

yep. The list is getting longer and longer...

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/audi_rs_5-vs-bmw_m3_e92_dkg.html

Enjoy your car!

Yeah but you can just hear the M3 gang complaining that the times weren't done on the same day as they excuse for the RS5 being quicker.

[QuattroFun]

Yeah but you can just hear the M3 gang complaining that the times weren't done on the same day as they excuse for the RS5 being quicker.

Dunno, some may and some may not. I guess the mounting evidence confirms the objective truth, which is that these two cars are very close indeed as was meant to be all along - although very different in execution and mag tests are useful for sure, but there is no real subsitute for a personal test drive. After the sure-footed RS4 my M3 is a real dog now in mid-winter, but charming and suitably thrilling nonetheless - and there is little vanity in the tail happiness in this slippery season. But, if Audi only could get the upcoming FL out of the way, shorten the gearing and lower the price slightly, then I could re-join the family..Or, wait, then the winner could be the upcoming 991 911, which probably comprehensively spank both cars.

[darkop]

Yeah but you can just hear the M3 gang complaining that the times weren't done on the same day as they excuse for the RS5 being quicker.
Yeah for sure, but then again all of these laptimes (bar Ring Knutstrop (Conf 2)) were taken from the same day comparisons for these two cars.
Hockenheim Short 1:15.30 1:14.00 (WRONG TIME! 1.14.20) -----> same day (Sport aUTO)
Sachsenring 1:40.81 1:40.67 ------> same day (Autobild)
Anglesey National 1:03.80 1:03.90 -----> same day - AutoExpress' Performance Car of the Year
Fuji Speedway (post 2005) 2:01.80 2:02.90 ------> same day (Japanese scans above)
Millbrook Alpine Hill Route 1:50.65 1:50.90 -----> same day Autocar's head to head
Ring Knutstrop (Conf 2) 1:13.80 1:15.60 ------> this could be separate days, different testers!!!?? - not sure
Haute Saintonge 1:04.07 1:04.30 -----> same day (automoto.fr - plus agains C63)

There is another lap time comparison here http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/bmw_m3_e92-vs-audi_rs_5.html but not as complete as the one above and they made mistake for M3's Anglesey National (1:03.90 is correct as above). They are gonna merge them together soon so we'll have better picture, but STILL with the SAME overall winner!! :hey:

[darkop]

OK,
now we've got full merged list, with very realistic outcome and verdict!

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/bmw_m3_e92-vs-audi_rs_5.html

So Audi is a bit faster (wins 5/9) all in head to head tests, so this leaves no doubt about its credentials on the track, which is very objective stuff! All other things like driving feel, enjoyment are down to driver's preferences and background!

Best,
D

[darkop]

I know it's a bump but couldn't resist. :)
The ''list'' is getting updated and we can safely assume the RS5 is FASTER than the M3. It's 8 out of 13 wins for Audi.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/bmw_m3_e92-vs-audi_rs_5.html

[Joker]

Heaven forbid someone posts this on either Bimmerpost or GermanCarForums, there would be an uproar at the thought that their beloved M3 was slower than the lardy RS5 with it's extra 150kgs to haul around. :hihi: