Carbotech brake pads

[MaxRS6]

Hello all:

As in another post, I lost brakes at a recent track event. After some commentary and research, I am adding the phaeton duct (thanks Jim and Ben of course!).

Second, I spoke with Carbotech (and sent pics) and they stated the following:

"You need to switch to the XP12 or RP2 compounds. You are going over the temp limits of the XP10, the pads did well to keep you safe as long as they did. I would recommend the RP2."

I don't know what temps the rotors were hitting, but they were certainly warm. Carbotech's site says this about their XP10 and XP12. I didn't see a description of the RP2 compound.

Carbotech™ XP10™ (1110™)
When Carbotech unleashed the XP10™ to the general public, and it was an instant success, gathering multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ is a very high initial bite friction material, with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1650°F. Due to the high level of friction and bite, this material is recommended for cars weighing around 2,000lbs or more, not including formula cars and cars with brake bias bars weighing less than 2,000lbs. This is the preferred compound for the front of Spec Miata racers, SSC,SSB, T3, SRF, ITS, ITE, H1,H2, H3, H4, 944 Cup, ST, GS, Factory Five Cobra’s and many more Grand-Am/ALMS/SCCA/NASA classes. XP10™ is also ideal for advanced/instructor level HPDE drivers. XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release and excellent modulation, rotor friendliness, and 100% non-corrosive dust that have made all Carbotech compounds so successful. XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.

Carbotech™ XP12™ (1112™)
The latest iteration of the highly successful XP™ series of compounds with an extremely high initial bite, torque and fade resistance than compound XP10™. XP12™ is a world leading friction compound that is unmatched as a Ceramic racing compound, with a temperature range of 250°F to 2000°F+. The XP12™ still has that excellent Carbotech release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech compounds so successful. The XP12™ is the most rotor aggressive compound Carbotech offers, but compared to the competition the XP12™ is still very rotor friendly and contains 100% non-corrosive dust. XP12™ is recommended only for expert/very advanced drivers. XP12™ is found to be most affective on race cars weighing 2,400lbs or more using R-Compound tires; or street cars weighing 3,200lbs or more for track use only. Ideal for LMP1, LMP2, DP, T1, T2, T3, H1, H2, GT1, GT2, GT3, TC, GT, ST, GS, MX-5 Cup, etc… XP12™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.

The STaSis folks had actually recommended the XP8 compounds after telling them my car info and brake kit...:lovl: After they recommended the XP8, I sent them some info on the car's weight and they said "oops- the XP8 would not have been a good choice). Second, the price STaSis was quoting was over a 1/3 more than the other bids I received for the same pads.

In summary, I hope the resolution is to install the Phaeton duct to reduce the temps, and go up to the RP2 compound as recommended by Carbotech. With some luck, I'll be able to try them out in the near and report back that all is well.

[MaxRS6]

LOL- Project Mu street pads not so good on the track. Bleeker takes a look at the remants of 3 track sessions on new Project Mu Street pads. He is not happy when I tell him I'm using some of his kitty food fund for needed new pads.



http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/201011%20TWS/BleekerPads-1.jpg?t=1290438757

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/201011%20TWS/Pads.jpg?t=1290438757

Long story short- the brake shop did not put on my track pads. Did the first few sessions at TWS on the Project Mu street pads. Brake light started going off during 3rd session and I'm thinking "WTF??" and pull back to the garage. We see the issue- Installed the Carbotech RP2 pads and they worked great. Another update later. Our cat was not happy. I've learned a good lesson to trust but verify...LOL

[4everRS]

Hey Mad Max, 4 and a half year old thread I'm digging up here. (Do I get a prize?) I'm wondering your thoughts on those carbotech pads. I know you don't track crazy anymore, but I'm hoping you remember your impression of those pads.

[MaxRS6]

Wow! That was long ago.

Hey there crazier than Mad Max- The Carbotech's were great at stopping the heavy pig. The RP2 did require a lil more work to get them up to temp- not hard with our car. The XP12 seemed- to me- a bit easier to modulate.. The RP2 did have a lot of bite.

Wear life- I normally managed about 4 days (at most) on a set of track pads with the RS6. At TWS or CoTA they were gone in a weekend. I don't miss that part of tracking the RS6. However; the loads of torque, high end speed, and quattro were 2 tons of track fun. I put a new set of Pagid Yellow pads on the 996 about 8 track weekends ago, and they are only about 25% gone at this point. Bleeker is happy about the increase in his food allowance.

Less than .02 worth

[Other_Erik]

Completely off-topic, how did you get Bleeker to sit still for a picture? Every time I try to take a picture with my cat(s) in it, they immediately turn around and/or start cleaning their privates...

[G2]

Good stuff!

Curious why there is only 4 and not 8 pads? And appears to be 6 pot and not 8 pot calipers?....MaxRS6, any comments?


I hope to ad commentary regarding how EBC pads hold up on the track this summer. I may try the currently installed YellowStuff, but not holding my breath they'll be happy at PIR in Portland. It's a fast track, guessing 120-130+mph going into turn one. Thankfully if one blows the braking zone, there's good run-off...

But will bring BlueStuff with me, or have them installed- what I"d call a "first level" Race pad. Don't want to fry spendy rotors on this car! Couple of "my" RS6'ers are running Blues on the street....then there's Orange pads. Probably great for the track and a near perfect match, judging how each level of pad works on various cars. I've used Green, Red, Yellow, Blue so far.

My supplier is now stocking EBC Yellow and Blue pads for the RS6. Makes it easy and the pads are a stellar value also.

[4everRS]

I did a track day yesterday at Brainerd international raceway. 2.5 mile, 13 turn track. Phaeton cooling ducts (just installed).

I used ebc orangestuff. After 5 sessions, this is how they looked:

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/A1656BAA-4E46-4E70-A550-81C7850B4094.jpg (http://s864.photobucket.com/user/crocodile64/media/A1656BAA-4E46-4E70-A550-81C7850B4094.jpg.html)

They felt fine on the track, until the 5th session. Something didn't feel right. Glad I checked. I've tried ebc in the past, with disappointing results, but I wanted to give them another chance. This was terrible. It's the reason I brought this thread back to life. Not to have an ebc bashing fest, but to get recommendations on pads that are actually capable of track use with our cars. I followed proper bed in procedures as well. They were new that morning. I figured I did no more than 25 laps on these pads

[lswing]

The beast likes brake pads...

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-32735-I-can-stop-any-time-meme-Cooki-FSuf.jpeg

[4everRS]

Good stuff!

Curious why there is only 4 and not 8 pads? And appears to be 6 pot and not 8 pot calipers?....MaxRS6, any comments?



He has an alcon rotor /caliper setup

[MaxRS6]

Completely off-topic, how did you get Bleeker to sit still for a picture? Every time I try to take a picture with my cat(s) in it, they immediately turn around and/or start cleaning their privates...

A lil bit of gorilla glue on the paw pads does the trick- It does become ugly when the licking gets them stuck to the privates...;0

[RS8]

The only options if you're driving on the track with your car is:
Carbotech or Performance Friction


I have only tested with Carbotech XP8 in the rear brakes,
in the front, first it was Carbotech XP10 and now I have Performance Friction 08 because they supposed to hold twice as long time as XP10 but they also cost twice as much..

[G2]

LoL, good one Lou, ain't it the truth!

-- Changing the brakes contextually changes the storyline in terms of how OEM brakes andth pads would hold up (hopefully not worse!). Based on the pics, those poor MPSS's are also toast.

600F rotors are to be expected regardless of pads used. And would expect even hottor rotors on the track.

IMHO, do not foresee anything less than OEM brakes sufficing on this vehicle. Especially on the track....

[Amulet-S6]

For track use, I'd put in a strong recommendation for Pagid RS compound pads. A few of us rs6 trackers used a combo of rs19 and rs14; although my memory can't recall which was front and rear. I could get 6-8 track days out of the front "black" pads, rear "yellow" pads would go a full season for me; 4-6 events.
Motul 600 brake fluid and the Phaeton air ducting will greatly improve your track enjoyment.
Michelin Pilot sport cup tires were my favorites (2-3 track days) run at higher than suggested psi (fwiw)

Best of luck, Jim
rs6 retired from track, still daily driver 140k

[DHall1]

Stop op riding the brakes and driving on the sidewalls of the tires.




I did a track day yesterday at Brainerd international raceway. 2.5 mile, 13 turn track. Phaeton cooling ducts (just installed).

I used ebc orangestuff. After 5 sessions, this is how they looked:

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/crocodile64/A1656BAA-4E46-4E70-A550-81C7850B4094.jpg (http://s864.photobucket.com/user/crocodile64/media/A1656BAA-4E46-4E70-A550-81C7850B4094.jpg.html)

They felt fine on the track, until the 5th session. Something didn't feel right. Glad I checked. I've tried ebc in the past, with disappointing results, but I wanted to give them another chance. This was terrible. It's the reason I brought this thread back to life. Not to have an ebc bashing fest, but to get recommendations on pads that are actually capable of track use with our cars. I followed proper bed in procedures as well. They were new that morning. I figured I did no more than 25 laps on these pads

[4everRS]

For track use, I'd put in a strong recommendation for Pagid RS compound pads. A few of us rs6 trackers used a combo of rs19 and rs14; although my memory can't recall which was front and rear. I could get 6-8 track days out of the front "black" pads, rear "yellow" pads would go a full season for me; 4-6 events.
Motul 600 brake fluid and the Phaeton air ducting will greatly improve your track enjoyment.
Michelin Pilot sport cup tires were my favorites (2-3 track days) run at higher than suggested psi (fwiw)

Best of luck, Jim
rs6 retired from track, still daily driver 140k

Great input Jim. Very appreciated. I have the phaeton ducts, and I'm seriously considering a track wheel/tire setup using BFG R1 tires. They seem to be favored over Hoosier r6's for heavy cars.

[4everRS]

Stop op riding the brakes and driving on the sidewalls of the tires.

You should really try taking one of those beasts on the track Dave. It's unbelievably fun. Or they can just sit in the garage. ;)

[Amulet-S6]

16466

Want more cooling? Here's another option. Rotor on the left is OEM; right is Coleman ring on custom center hat. OEM dimensions with better internal air flow. Just under $1000 for the front pair in '07 when I purchased. Once you have the hats, new rotors and hardware are only $405/pr. Friend changed his out between track sessions and it dropped track temp of rotor from ~1100* to 875* according to pyrometer.

[DHall1]

Not in the budget. If parts breakage became common....I could not keep em. I drive em just as public enemy #1.


You should really try taking one of those beasts on the track Dave. It's unbelievably fun. Or they can just sit in the garage. ;)