RS6 Labor Manual Help

[CornersWell]

All,

Having a problem with an independent warranty claim and need some help. Recently, my alternator and control arms had to be replaced. My warranty company agreed to cover the claim, but they used the wrong vehicle when they processed it. They do not have an RS6 in their labor manual (Chilton's, All Data, or whatever they're using) and used an A6 4.2 V8, instead. As we all know, the labor hours required to perform work on the RS6 isn't remotely the same as that on an A6. So, the claim was processed for far below the number of hours required, and the dealer charged me the difference (long story as to why they even got my CC). They shouldn't have, and now I'm fighting to get the proper documentation to support a correct claim with the warranty company (the dealer, after 6 weeks STILL cannot produce the RS6 documentation supporting the claim!).

Does anyone have the RS6 manual showing the hours required to a) replace the alternator and b) replace both front control arms? If so, can I get copies of the relevant pages? Also, if anyone has the A6 manual, can I possibly get the comparable pages from that manual to show there is a wide distinction?

THANKS! Cannot believe I'm dealing this this...

CW

[4everRS]

CW - Sorry to hear about the issues. While I don't have a manual for you, I wanted to say that the difference of work involved in the items you listed above are really not much different between the models. As far as I understand the control arm replacement does not require messing with the DRC and very similar to the 4.2 setup.

Rumor has it that the RS6 alternator could actually be easier to change than other C5 models and can be done without removal of the bumper. Someone posted a DIY about it - search is you friend. I know that V8weight recently had his alternatior replaced under warranty, but I think the dealership did remove the bumper.

Again, sorry I couldn't help with the manual.

Edit - found the link to the DIY
http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/19720-Alternator-replacement?highlight=alternator+replacement

[CornersWell]

4Ever,

I do know that dealers have a "short cut" to replacing the alternator. But, in my case, the serpentine belt was also replaced (at my expense) and new diverter valves were installed (again, at my expense). So, the car had to have been put into the "service position".

Anyway, I will be following this up.

Thanks!

CW

[SAFE4NOW]

FWIW , extended warranty(s) will only pay labor based upon published labor times in Mitchell, Motors, or Alldata time guides. SOME may use Manufacture labor times, but those usually show less time, as it would be warranty times.

I went through this very same thing with a transmission replacement on an Rs6, where the warranty company was only giving R+R time for a 4.2 vs the Rs6... BIG difference. I was able to get a written letter from Alldata to support the requested times AND still lost , as it was not " published time "

Steve

[TozoM8]

Those items require the same time on the RS6 as the A6. The shop should not charge you more than book hours on an A6.

[CornersWell]

Interesting...

I wonder if that's why the dealer won't provide documentation to substantiate the hours. I specifically asked for the relevant information from both the RS6 AND the A6 manuals. If there's no difference, then they are fncked, I should think.

Here's what I know: the warranty company pre-authorized 5.0 hrs on the alternator and 3.2 hrs on the control arms. The dealer states it takes 11.0 and 8.2, respectively, as published in Audi's labor RS6 labor manual. That's a difference of 11.0 hours (6.0 and 5.0, respectively), and at $125/hr, amounts to $1,375. Including the pro rata share of taxes and shop disposables, it's in the mid $1,400's. They billed for the 11.0 and 8.2, accepted the reimbursement from the warranty company (in the neighborhood of $1800) and charged me the difference.

As to what manuals the warranty companies use, if they are selling warranties for an RS6 how can they possibly use an A6 manual? Two different cars in a lot of ways. This makes NO sense. So far, I feel my best recourse is to continue my battle. I've involved the CC company (by contesting the charges), I've contacted the warranty company and I've informed the dealer. However, if this doesn't get resolved in my favor, then I'll be marching right over to the county courthouse to file my small claims action and let the courts figure this out. This is ridiculous

Safe, I'd like to know why what Audi "publishes" would not be suitable, especially when the all data manuals are silent on the RS6 model. Please elaborate. Thanks.

CW

[4everRS]

Sounds to me like the dealer assumed they can charge you more because you own an RS6. I'm sure they will try to get out of it some way when they get back to you. 8.2 hours for control arms ?!? Stupid. On a side note, I had an indy tranny shop do a fluid and filter change on mine a while back. They not only have expierience in the basic service in audi transmissions, but have rebuilt several as well. I bought the fluid (BND), filter, and gasket and brought it to them to do the labor. They charged me $39.95 after tax. Beauty.

And the warranty. Insurance companies are like the casino, everyone wants to take out more than what they put in, but very few accually do. (congrats Mike Aronis)

[V8weight]

Interesting...

I wonder if that's why the dealer won't provide documentation to substantiate the hours. I specifically asked for the relevant information from both the RS6 AND the A6 manuals. If there's no difference, then they are fncked, I should think.

Here's what I know: the warranty company pre-authorized 5.0 hrs on the alternator and 3.2 hrs on the control arms. The dealer states it takes 11.0 and 8.2, respectively, as published in Audi's labor RS6 labor manual. That's a difference of 11.0 hours (6.0 and 5.0, respectively), and at $125/hr, amounts to $1,375. Including the pro rata share of taxes and shop disposables, it's in the mid $1,400's. They billed for the 11.0 and 8.2, accepted the reimbursement from the warranty company (in the neighborhood of $1800) and charged me the difference.

As to what manuals the warranty companies use, if they are selling warranties for an RS6 how can they possibly use an A6 manual? Two different cars in a lot of ways. This makes NO sense. So far, I feel my best recourse is to continue my battle. I've involved the CC company (by contesting the charges), I've contacted the warranty company and I've informed the dealer. However, if this doesn't get resolved in my favor, then I'll be marching right over to the county courthouse to file my small claims action and let the courts figure this out. This is ridiculous

Safe, I'd like to know why what Audi "publishes" would not be suitable, especially when the all data manuals are silent on the RS6 model. Please elaborate. Thanks.

CW
It sounds to me like your dealership is trying to pull one over on you. My car is in the shop right now, along with my folder of service records, but I'm certain that my alternator replacement was a total of about $1300. They charged 5hrs of labor, and the part was in the ballpark of $550, plus coolant and an oil filter. It may be that at one time an alternator replacement required 11hrs of labor, but in the business, as time goes on, labor operations are updated as new techniques come to light. I believe my dealership uses Mitchell, and 5hrs is what they quoted. I have no idea were your dealership got the idea that they could charge 11 hrs of labor. If it would help, I can fax or email you a copy of my invoice after I retrieve my car, and it wouldn't hurt to touch base with Aronis and see what his alternator replacement entailed as well.

[TozoM8]

[QUOTE=CornersWell;195241]Interesting...

I wonder if that's why the dealer won't provide documentation to substantiate the hours. I specifically asked for the relevant information from both the RS6 AND the A6 manuals. If there's no difference, then they are fncked, I should think.

Here's what I know: the warranty company pre-authorized 5.0 hrs on the alternator and 3.2 hrs on the control arms. The dealer states it takes 11.0 and 8.2, respectively, as published in Audi's labor RS6 labor manual. That's a difference of 11.0 hours (6.0 and 5.0, respectively), and at $125/hr, amounts to $1,375. Including the pro rata share of taxes and shop disposables, it's in the mid $1,400's. They billed for the 11.0 and 8.2, accepted the reimbursement from the warranty company (in the neighborhood of $1800) and charged me the difference.

As to what manuals the warranty companies use, if they are selling warranties for an RS6 how can they possibly use an A6 manual? Two different cars in a lot of ways. This makes NO sense. So far, I feel my best recourse is to continue my battle. I've involved the CC company (by contesting the charges), I've contacted the warranty company and I've informed the dealer. However, if this doesn't get resolved in my favor, then I'll be marching right over to the county courthouse to file my small claims action and let the courts figure this out. This is ridiculous

Safe, I'd like to know why what Audi "publishes" would not be suitable, especially when the all data manuals are silent on the RS6 model. Please elaborate. Thanks.

11 hours =O) that's the problem with airconditioned shops. They are too comfortable. Let them change it on the side of a highway with trucks going 70mph right next to them. I bet they would change it in an hour.

[CornersWell]

Two days and counting and NOTHING from the dealer. If what you guys are saying is correct, then they have a real problem, and I was correct to contest the bill with the CC company. I'm hoping they're on the up and up, but this may well end up in court. All help is welcome.

If anyone would be willing to post up (redacted is fine) their alternator replacement bills, I'm VERY happy to see them. This wouldn't be the first time a dealer had "padded" a bill, and won't be the last, but information is power. And, frankly, I'm SHOCKED that they would even try it.

I feel like an idiot for having given them the CC in the first place, but I was under duress and departing for extended travel. They also pulled this crap (without giving me a heads-up) at 5pm on the Friday of a 3-day weekend (July 4th). And, after not having had my car (or a loaner) for nearly two weeks, I had to have it. If I find that the dealer did this consciously, there's going to be a major problem. I may have them dead to rights on this.

CW

[V8weight]

11 hours =O) that's the problem with airconditioned shops. They are too comfortable. Let them change it on the side of a highway with trucks going 70mph right next to them. I bet they would change it in an hour.
Lol, very true. It's been a long couple of weeks to be working out in a shop in the mid-west hasn't it.

[V8weight]

Two days and counting and NOTHING from the dealer. If what you guys are saying is correct, then they have a real problem, and I was correct to contest the bill with the CC company. I'm hoping they're on the up and up, but this may well end up in court. All help is welcome.

If anyone would be willing to post up (redacted is fine) their alternator replacement bills, I'm VERY happy to see them. This wouldn't be the first time a dealer had "padded" a bill, and won't be the last, but information is power. And, frankly, I'm SHOCKED that they would even try it.

I feel like an idiot for having given them the CC in the first place, but I was under duress and departing for extended travel. They also pulled this crap (without giving me a heads-up) at 5pm on the Friday of a 3-day weekend (July 4th). And, after not having had my car (or a loaner) for nearly two weeks, I had to have it. If I find that the dealer did this consciously, there's going to be a major problem. I may have them dead to rights on this.

CW
Cornerswell, pm me your email address, and I'll scan a copy of my invoice and shoot it over when I get my car back (tomorrow or Friday). In the mean time, did you try sending Aronis a pm?

[CornersWell]

PM sent, V8.

Thank you!

CW

[CornersWell]

All,

The plot thickens a bit. I called the warranty company and asked them to disclose to me what was pre-authorized. I also called my old dealer and asked them to comment on the invoice I received. There's a number of discrepancies. I was charged more by the dealer for parts than was pre-approved as well as for labor. The dealer continues to fail to provide me (or anyone, including the CC company AFAIK) with the basic documentation supporting their claim for 11.0 and 8.2 hours, respectively. The old dealer's conclusion was "we don't know WHAT they're doing, because the hours required to replace an alternator is far below 11.0". More like 8.0. Certainly more than what you'll find in Mitchell's or All Data, which is what the warranty company said they use (and they insisted to me that the books have an RS6 in them and that's what they used). So, the dealer has some explaining to do.

Also, interestingly, I have been anonymously informed that the dealer has done this with yet another customer. Curious as to whether a pattern is emerging here. As a lawyer, that's VERY interesting to me...

CW

[DHall1]

Sounds like a fishy dealer and some fishy business.

CW keep up the fight!

Right now I'm fighting with MB USA over our car bomb of a E55 AMG. Massive fuel leak from the gas tank level sensor assembly. 3rd failure in 2 years and the part was involved in a recall in 08. All of you watch your local news channels for exploding E55s in your area. Then let me know. Class action will come around faster than you can say....got cha MB.

[V8weight]

Cornerswell, you have mail......