Wheel Vibration afer 19" wheel upgrade. Ideas?

[stubro]

Guys I need a little help when it comes to a problem I am having with front end vibration and my wheels. I got a new set of wheels a year or so ago, yes I know that is a long time ago but I travel a lot so the car doesn’t get driven as much as it should, and the I have not been able to get rid of and I find myself not driving the car as much because of it. Note Wheels and Tires were an ebay buy from a guy at BBS.
So here are the details:
• Wheels – I replaced the stock wheels with a set of BBS CH(black) 19” 19x8.5 +35mm offset
• Tires – The wheels came with a set of Michelin Pilot PS2 255/35zr19 96Y Radial XL tires with 500 miles on them.
• Wheel spacers and center ring - the wheels required me to put spacers on the to prevent the wheels from rubbing and so I ordered from tire rack 5mm spaces and center rings to allow for a hubcentric fit.
The vibration started right away especially around 60 mph. When we looked at the spaces we thought there might be some play in the between the hub and the center ring because of a chamfer in the center ring from tire rack. As I am sure some of you know with the spacer the hub is shorter in the wheel center and the concern was that I didn’t have enough hub with the chamfer to allow for a tight fit. My assumption btw. So I ordered a new set of spacers, same size but from a different company, not HR, and hoped that might do it, it hasn’t. We also turned the center ring over and it has a non chamfered side hoping that might help it didn’t. So it could be many things, back tires ( they are now at the point that the front need to be replaced so I am thinking PS3s), wheel balance, better spacer needed (HR), suspension geometry, maybe a spacer ring combo but not sure they make them for a 5mm plate, etc. I need some ideas. Help if you can. I don’t want to buy new tires until I figure out if I am wasting my money and need to go back to stocks, not what I want to do.

[4everRS]

sorry for this stupid question but, you made no mention of getting the wheels balanced at a tire shop. Please verify this has been done, and if so, have you tried a different shop?

[stubro]

Not a stupid question. They were balanced when we put the tires/wheels on the car and the vibration was there from day one. I havent tried another shop but I certainly could. I think since we tried to balance a few times and they have a state of that art machine we look at other factors. We rotated the wheels to see if that might be the cause and the problem was alway up front where the spacers were.

[ttboost]

Make sure there is nothing under the spacer. Any small piece of debris could cause a slight imbalance... Take wheels & spacers off and verify that all surfaces are clean. If they are, try a rebalance at a different shop.

[Born2be]

Don't know if this helps. From the Achtuning site:

NOTE:
Audi and Volkswagen use a "Hub-Centric" wheel mounting, this means that the wheel is centered on the hub for mounting and load bearing. This can cause certain restrictions with spacer sizing as outlined below:
The length of the centering portion of the hub on Audi's and VW's varies from model to model, certain spacers do not have enough room to accomodate the longer hubs. Hub height is easy to measure with the wheel removed.
H&R 5mm and 8mm DR Spacers may "cover up" the entire portion of the hub reserved for hub-centering due to their thickness and lack of a built in hub-center on the spacer itself, this can lead to vibration issues if not installed perfectly.
H&R 8 - 12mm DR spacers have a 4 to 7mm high 45 degree chamfer built into the spacer itself, the shape and size of this chamfer is not compatible with all wheels, we will be able to tell you if they are compatible with Hartmann wheels but won't be able to check against other wheels unless you are local and can bring your wheels to us.

[JRS-RS6]

Not a stupid question. They were balanced when we put the tires/wheels on the car and the vibration was there from day one. I havent tried another shop but I certainly could. I think since we tried to balance a few times and they have a state of that art machine we look at other factors. We rotated the wheels to see if that might be the cause and the problem was alway up front where the spacers were.

Just because they pass a wheel balance does not mean they are true. Watch the wheels on the balancer for any visual cues -- trust me I looked at some Sportec's that were perfectly balanced according to the wheel balancer but visually they were beyond toast!

[skribe]

Just because they pass a wheel balance does not mean they are true. Watch the wheels on the balancer for any visual cues -- trust me I looked at some Sportec's that were perfectly balanced according to the wheel balancer but visually they were beyond toast!

Agree, it sounds like you have a tire or wheel out of round. Take them into a good wheel shop, they'll figure it out in 15 minutes.

I think you bought somebody else's problem on eBay.

[stubro]

All good suggestions and I think Born2be is on to something. That is why I was wondering if there is a spacer/center combo until that would work. For larger spacing they have them but not for 5mm at least I havent found one. I will start with the wheel/tire in round and go from there. I need new tires anyway so I will start with that and at the same time try to deal with the vibration. Speaking of new tires anyone look at the new PS3s as opposed to the PS2s?

[ben916]

Agree, it sounds like you have a tire or wheel out of round. Take them into a good wheel shop, they'll figure it out in 15 minutes.

I think you bought somebody else's problem on eBay.

I had this whole thing written out about starting with the Rims to make sure they aren't flat spotted or bent or out of balance, yack, yack, yack...
I am glad you wrote it and I second your opinion.

Also, not be too much of a dick, but - why would a BBS employee be selling on EBAY unless there was something wrong with them and then YOU purchased their problem - no longer THEIR problem, now it is yours...

[stubro]

I dont take, much, offense. I of course thought of that. That is why I had the tires rotated to see if the problem went away, it didnt. However I initially throught the problem was the spacers, got new ones, and still had the problem. The hubcentric explaination above would seem to point towards a more likely cause. One solution I thought of was to have someone machine a spacer/centrhub but that is a last resort. Or put the old wheels back on but I want to figure that out before I buy new tires.

[ttboost]

Did you try the wheels without the spacers?

[ben916]

• Wheel spacers and center ring - the wheels required me to put spacers on the to prevent the wheels from rubbing and so I ordered from tire rack 5mm spaces and center rings to allow for a hubcentric fit. .


Did you try the wheels without the spacers?

He indicated the wheels would rub..

[ttboost]

He indicated the wheels would rub..

I know, but rub all the time or when aggressively turning? I was thinking he can put the wheels on without the spacers and just carefully drive out some where where he can drive fairly straight for long enough to feel?

[ben916]

I know, but rub all the time or when aggressively turning? I was thinking he can put the wheels on without the spacers and just carefully drive out some where where he can drive fairly straight for long enough to feel?

True...

I am wondering if MaxRS6 had the same issue with his BBS? He has BBS-RS-GT but I don't remember if they are 18's or 19's...

[stubro]

We did try them without the spacers and there was very little vibration but there was rubbing. I did see a few post that others went to a 8MM where there is a built in hubcentric rin on teh spacer. I am thinking that might be worth a try. It essentially sleeves the hub and extends it.

[V8weight]

We did try them without the spacers and there was very little vibration but there was rubbing. I did see a few post that others went to a 8MM where there is a built in hubcentric rin on teh spacer. I am thinking that might be worth a try. It essentially sleeves the hub and extends it.
Sorry I'm so late to the show here, but this is your problem. 5mm spacers are not hub-centric, and prevent the hub- centric hub from
seating at the proper depth into the wheel. You should move up to an 8, or 10mm hub-centric spacer. I would personally recommend a 10mm based on your specs. I used to run 10mm's all around with my stock wheels, which we all know are 18x8.5 et30. I never had any clearance issues, despite being lowered on Kw coilovers. Here's what the car looked like with the spacers, essentially a 20mm offset overall.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/023-3.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/013-4.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/007-15.jpg

[snoopra]

Yeah, what he said:). I'm running 4mm hub-centric spacers with no vibs.

[stubro]

Ok so I just ordered the 10mm ones to lets see what that does and I will get back to you guys.

[stubro]

So the 10mm H&R spacers are on things are better, not perfect but better. I am going to do one more test by rotating the tires and then I can decide on next steps.

[mmaturo]

Its got to be the wheels still. Sounds like one or more likely a couple have a slight bend. I had what you describe in front from 2 bent wheels but at first thought it was just one of them...we moved the bad one to the back and was way better but still there. The wheels would balance so it was the visual on the balancing machine where we saw it. One was obvious, another was not and when we went ahead and moved the second one to the rear suspecting a bend everything was pretty good. All four i had fixed/checked and all is smooth as glass again.

[F1 Dad]

I also had a vibration issue at about 50 mph with BBS 19" wheels and the 5mm spacers. I currently have 20" OZ wheels with no spacers on the beast and it rides fine, so the problem does seem to be with the spacers. I will try new spacers per the recommendation.

[GEN XER]

Check your tie-rods inner and outer. They may have been ok with the stock tires and wheels but the over-sized wheels may have exaggerated the issue. If there is any play in the rods then get them changed. Tires out of round is rare but possible and if the spacers are not hub-centric to the hub and the wheels you will have vibration issues, their is a place that makes great spacers, Ill have to get the name for you. My issue was inner tie-rods, good luck with finding the issue.