New RS4 next year ...

[Fehli]

Hallo,

in the new Auto Motor Sport in Germany is a article with the new RS4 450 HP V8 starting in the end of 2011:rs4kiss:
Also the same Motor is in the RS5

Nice to hear
regards
Andi

[Fab]

I do not believe this... But if true it is a pure (bad) joke ! Audi must now deliver a top end V8 tt for its future RS models and reduce weight.

[Ruergard]

Debuting a new car with that engine i 2011. No, highly unlikely.

[andreadebi]

I got this new info:
*presentation geneve 2011
*on sale april 2011
*price from € 82.000

something true?

[AndyBG]

Every components are there... MB has C 63 AMG V8, BMW has M3 limousine, also V8..., so RS 4 V8, why not...?

[tailpipe]

I heard from an Audi insider back in 2008 that the follow-up to the B7 RS4 would have the new 4.0-litre TFSI V8. After I wrote that, others said that there would be no B8 RS4. As things stand, it looks as if the next RS4 will come after the refresh of the current A4 series and be called B9. Although i haven't spoken to that person in a while, I have no reason to doubt what they said. However, there's been a lot of talk about down-sizing and given the recent state of Europe's economies, oil prices and environmental consciousness people buying high-performance cars as easily as they used to. A kind of environmental/ social responsibility is evident among car-buying patterns as far as I can see. Does this mean Audi has changed its mind about what the RS4 should have? It is conceivable that it could get a development of the 3.0-litre petrol engine, which could easily punch out 400 bhp. BMW will revert to a 6-cylinder in-line engine for the next M3, but Lexus and Mercedes-Benz look as though they'll stick with V8s. My money is on the 4.0-litre V8.

[Erik]

4.0T V8 or Audi don't have to make it ;)

[tvrfan]

you think the B8/B9 RS4 would come with the new V8 TFSI 4.0 ? so where does it leave the RS5? i makes no sense to have these two cars with different engines, the RS5 should come then also with the new 4.0 TFSI. but thats crap for the customers that always has the RS5 now.

[andreadebi]

maybe the new engine will arrive with the completely new a4 if we see it on marketing side,difficult to introduce a new engine on "old" car (for b9 facelift could be also used the 3.0 tfsi already seen on the q5 custom concept @ worthersee 2009 ;) )

[ZeroCool]

@tvrfan...

why it makes no sense? they have two different engines in the same car (S5 Coupe and S5 Cabriolet) - so why shouldn't they do it with the RS4 and RS5?

[tvrfan]

hmm? has the S5 cab the 3.0 TFSI and the S4 coupe the 4.2. V8 ? when yes, iam confused o.0

PS: you are right, but whats the logic that audi put two different engines in the S5 ??? i dont get that point.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

well... the quattro GmbH is going through changes, as i mentioned before. As you know the latest RS lineup is no longer manufatured by the quattro GmbH itself but rather on the regular production line. For myself this has pros and cons but the cons are moving quite towards the opposite with time running by. Coming along with this "changes" all final decisions are made @Ingolstadt. Time will tell if this turns out the way it is supposed to be... :vhmmm:

So, yes the RS 4 is coming, decision has been made lately. What to expect: Avant only, shares setup with RS 5, will be available faster than you expect.

Whoever is dreaming about a forced V8 in the B Segment Class... time to wake up. This is not going to happen. The upcoming way is light, economical but still powerful... and i like it. :hihi:

Qisha

PS: pro f.e. - there will be as much RS models available at one time as never before.

[darkop]

:applause:

Oh, thank you very much for this insight, man! So many great news about Audi lately! Not sure if we can cope with it!!

[ZeroCool]

thanks a lot for this information ;)

sounds promising...

[tvrfan]

so if the current RS models are not made from quattro gmbh itself. does that mean the future rs cars be not more so special or lightweight? whats with the quattro gmbh workers? are they now working on audi ingolstadt or in neckarsulm in the quattro gmbh factory?

[rs4some]

Qisha do you know if it will have the RS4 guards of old or the new box type guards of the rs6 and rs5?

Its abit of a shame that Audi is pumping out RS models constantly now, there isn't the same exclusitivity that they once had - nor the excitement that the original RS4 and 6 brought

[AndyBG]

So..., 4.2 ! :)

[andreadebi]

very useful news as usual,thanks Qisha!
I hope to see the 3.0tfsi tweaked and with more power than Q5 Custom Concept ;)

[Ritchy]

Thanks for the (precious) informations !

[Fehli]

I think V8 and 450 HP, the same is in the RS5

[darkop]

I think V8 and 450 HP, the same is in the RS5
What is there to think?! Qisha confirmed it, didn't he?

[Joker]

Dear Friends,

well... the quattro GmbH is going through changes, as i mentioned before. As you know the latest RS lineup is no longer manufatured by the quattro GmbH itself but rather on the regular production line. For myself this has pros and cons but the cons are moving quite towards the opposite with time running by. Coming along with this "changes" all final decisions are made @Ingolstadt. Time will tell if this turns out the way it is supposed to be... :vhmmm:

So, yes the RS 4 is coming, decision has been made lately. What to expect: Avant only, shares setup with RS 5, will be available faster than you expect.

Whoever is dreaming about a forced V8 in the B Segment Class... time to wake up. This is not going to happen. The upcoming way is light, economical but still powerful... and i like it. :hihi:

Qisha

PS: pro f.e. - there will be as much RS models available at one time as never before.

Am I right in thinking that the RS lineup is now produced away from quattro GmbH but that they are finalised there?

Also, you mention that it will be quicker than we think, does this mean that the mistakes made with the RS5 will not be repeated, i.e. this car will be quicker than it's rivals and not the other way round?

Another thing, sure the 4.2FSi is a great engine, but being a normally aspirated engine weight plays a big role in how quick they are because their are traditionally lacking in torque compared to a turbo engine. So why stick with an engine that has proved to be slower than the competition?

Have you something up your sleeve like different gearing, less weight or possibly even more power?

[darkop]

Am I right in thinking that the RS lineup is now produced away from quattro GmbH but that they are finalised there?

Also, you mention that it will be quicker than we think, does this mean that the mistakes made with the RS5 will not be repeated, i.e. this car will be quicker than it's rivals and not the other way round?

Another thing, sure the 4.2FSi is a great engine, but being a normally aspirated engine weight plays a big role in how quick they are because their are traditionally lacking in torque compared to a turbo engine. So why stick with an engine that has proved to be slower than the competition?

Have you something up your sleeve like different gearing, less weight or possibly even more power?
I think what he meant is that it is gonna be available sooner than we can anticipate!
Also, force fed engines are to be reserved for the next B segment generations and they will be V6 FI ''only''... V8s TFSI's are for upper classes RS (RS6/7)!

[tailpipe]

Qisha,

You are most enigmatic! That means that RS4 gets either a forced 3.0-litre V6 or a naturally aspirated 4.2-litre V8.

Since BMW is returning to a 6-cylinder engine in the M3, I expect Audi will also offer one in the the RS4. It'll save weight and be more easily Euro 6 complaint than a naturally aspirated V8. I don't see much development potential left in the NA 4.2 V8. I think its days are over.

Since the acquisition of Porsche, it looks like the new 4.0 litre V8 is now being reserved for C segment vehicles and above. If Audi has to share this engine with so many other VW brands, including Bentley, then it is unlikely to put in low down models.

[Joker]

I think what he meant is that it is gonna be available sooner than we can anticipate!
Also, force fed engines are to be reserved for the next B segment generations and they will be V6 FI ''only''... V8s TFSI's are for upper classes RS (RS6/7)!

Ah, I totally missed the word "available". Well then that whole post was a total waste.

But I still think giving it the same engine would be a mistake, especially as the Avant will probably prove to be even heavier.

Qisha, if you have any say regarding the RS4 then please stress the importance to give it an engine capable of placed the car at the top instead of an also ran.

[darkop]

Dear Friends,

well... the quattro GmbH is going through changes, as i mentioned before. As you know the latest RS lineup is no longer manufatured by the quattro GmbH itself but rather on the regular production line. For myself this has pros and cons but the cons are moving quite towards the opposite with time running by. Coming along with this "changes" all final decisions are made @Ingolstadt. Time will tell if this turns out the way it is supposed to be... :vhmmm:

So, yes the RS 4 is coming, decision has been made lately. What to expect: Avant only, shares setup with RS 5, will be available faster than you expect.

Whoever is dreaming about a forced V8 in the B Segment Class... time to wake up. This is not going to happen. The upcoming way is light, economical but still powerful... and i like it. :hihi:

Qisha

PS: pro f.e. - there will be as much RS models available at one time as never before.


Qisha,

You are most enigmatic! That means that RS4 gets either a forced 3.0-litre V6 or a naturally aspirated 4.2-litre V8.

Since BMW is returning to a 6-cylinder engine in the M3, I expect Audi will also offer one in the the RS4. It'll save weight and be more easily Euro 6 complaint than a naturally aspirated V8. I don't see much development potential left in the NA 4.2 V8. I think its days are over.

Since the acquisition of Porsche, it looks like the new 4.0 litre V8 is now being reserved for C segment vehicles and above. If Audi has to share this engine with so many other VW brands, including Bentley, then it is unlikely to put in low down models.

We can clearly see he meant 4.2 V8 since both are from the same platform (which is already aging by the way), and it would have been unreasonable to offer different engines for basically the same car! next M3 is too far away, possibly as 2014 model and no need to offer counterpart for that yet! They can still exploit very good ''setup'' of the RS5 which is maybe not to someones liking at the moment but it is as it is!

[RXBG]

they'd have to make the RS4 soon. B8 cycle is halfway done almost. i assume the"B" segment is the A4/5 segment?

[Fab]

If this upcoming RS4 gets the RS5 engine it will be a joke ! How can you then motivate B7 owners to switch for "same engine" and 30 hp more ? And more weight thanks to all new electronic toys...

Sounds not possible to me

[RXBG]

If this upcoming RS4 gets the RS5 engine it will be a joke ! How can you then motivate B7 owners to switch for "same engine" and 30 hp more ? And more weight thanks to all new electronic toys...

Sounds not possible to me

i agree. it'll be heavy. beautiful and super refined. and use lots of gas. it wouldn't take much money for audi to produce it since RS cars are now mass produced. so why not. if they can sell a few thou then go for it. it'll be the last of the "old formula" RS cars.

[darkop]

Exactly! Don't expect too much! If they wanted to make it the way most of you want it to be, they would have made RS5 to be like that at first place! This is going to be just a milking of the existing formula (read: squeezing more money) before beginning of the whole new direction with the next generation..

[Ruergard]

I didn't think Audi would do this, and I don't like it. Could I have a RS4 B5 please?

[darkop]

If we were on a BMW board everybody would be raving of joy how they were keeping N/A engines alive! Instead, over there, they are doing the same: bitching about why going with FI direction...
We have to be aware that what Audi is doing is becoming #1 sporty German car of choice and trying to steel some of (if not all) the mantra BMW used to jealously own. On that way they want to steel as many as possible of competitor's former and current owners/adorers and by offering such choice as n/a engine is the wisest thing they can do at the moment since that's the formula a real car enthusiast would prefer most of the time as it offers the most of driving feel. It may be something as you, an old Audi fan, don't like, but remember - Audi wasn't that successful in past and they didn't obviously have such products to become #1. Their target is to become the best, some of us will have to accept, be patient and by the time there will be products that would please everyone's taste! I am really positive about that!
Cheers

[KresoF1]

I didn't think Audi would do this, and I don't like it. Could I have a RS4 B5 please?

NEW RS4 Avant will have same engine and gearbox as RS5. Decisions have been made. Period.

Little remark from me... I am not enthusastic at all about idea of high output 2.5TFSI with around 420ps/570Nm.... That engine could suffer from turbo lug, even with clever S tronic programming... So, quattro Gmbh-prove to us that you can build as good gearbox/engine interface as in current Porshce 911 Turbo S(PDK is awsome IMHO).

[andreadebi]

NEW RS4 Avant will have same engine and gearbox as RS5. Decisions have been made. Period.

Little remark from me... I am not enthusastic at all about idea of high output 2.5TFSI with around 420ps/570Nm.... That engine could suffer from turbo lug, even with clever S tronic programming... So, quattro Gmbh-prove to us that you can build as good gearbox/engine interface as in current Porshce 911 Turbo S(PDK is awsome IMHO).

that's an important news,thanks. I thought the choice was 3.0tfsi powerful version instead again NA

[Ruergard]

NEW RS4 Avant will have same engine and gearbox as RS5. Decisions have been made. Period.

Little remark from me... I am not enthusastic at all about idea of high output 2.5TFSI with around 420ps/570Nm.... That engine could suffer from turbo lug, even with clever S tronic programming... So, quattro Gmbh-prove to us that you can build as good gearbox/engine interface as in current Porshce 911 Turbo S(PDK is awsome IMHO).

Yes, I've figured that out now. But still, I'm a little bit disappointed. :-)

I'm with you on the PDK front, great stuff from Porsche.

[Fab]

Agree and like Porsche did Audi should modify the paddles : make the paddle shift bigger and more visible behind the steering wheel.

[tailpipe]

Audi's RS strategy seems strange. Qisha said that the RS4 plan had only recently been decided. He used the word "lately". It's like the car was an afterthought rather than a major thrust in Audi's sports car strategy.

I like naturally aspirated V8s, but, my oh my, are they thirsty. Look at the range of the B7 RS4 with its tiny fuel tank. I would certainly hesitate before buying a B8 RS4. So I am disappointed by an RS4 that is a clone of the RS5. It is a car designed by accountants not engineers. I wanted something much more cutting edge.

So, would you buy an RS4 with the NA 4.2 V8 or an S6 / S7 with the forced induction 4.0 V8? In other words, will the RS4 be as popular for Audi as the M3 is for BMW?

[Ruergard]

In other words, will the RS4 be as popular for Audi as the M3 is for BMW?

I don't think so... :(

[tailpipe]

I don't think so... :(

I don't think so either.

The RS5 doesn't seem to have too many fans and certainly doesn't have the cachet of previous RS models. So, it seems strange that Audi should use an unsuccessful RS5 model as the basis for a new RS4 model.

Actually, not so strange at all. Maybe the problem with the RS5 is the body shape, not the engine. Maybe it was to much like a clone of the M3, instead of being focused around what Audi does best: Avant wagons? So, the solution to the RS5 'problem' is simply to transfer all the development work of the RS5 chassis to the identical A4 platform. Hey presto... you turn failure into success.

Very clever. But I won't be buying one.

[darkop]

I don't think so either.

The RS5 doesn't seem to have too many fans and certainly doesn't have the cachet of previous RS models. So, it seems strange that Audi should use an unsuccessful RS5 model as the basis for a new RS4 model.

Actually, not so strange at all. Maybe the problem with the RS5 is the body shape, not the engine. Maybe it was to much like a clone of the M3, instead of being focused around what Audi does best: Avant wagons? So, the solution to the RS5 'problem' is simply to transfer all the development work of the RS5 chassis to the identical A4 platform. Hey presto... you turn failure into success.

Very clever. But I won't be buying one.

What previous RS models are you referring to? none of them were better dynamically than any M3!
And also, an A5 has always been slotted between 3er and 6er bm, hence direct comparison of RS5 to M3 is not completely accurate!

[artur777]

Rs4 avant with hdz 4.2 fsi will not be a super success. It will be ok, but no more. We should wait for the next rs cars to see new philosophy of quattro gmbh in action

Next s8?
Next rs3?
Next rs6?
Next rs7?

All of them should be with forced induction...

Btw, KresoF1 - what do you think of the setup of the upcoming s8 and rs7?

[artur777]

Regarding rs5 - c63 with performance pack or just with stage 1 chip (turning to normal hp value of 6.3 engine - 515hp) is much much faster

C63 will turn later to new bi-turbo setup, the same as next m3.

Audi should be proactive, not reactive to be major success!!

[darkop]

Regarding rs5 - c63 with performance pack or just with stage 1 chip (turning to normal hp value of 6.3 engine - 515hp) is much much faster

C63 will turn later to new bi-turbo setup, the same as next m3.

Audi should be proactive, not reactive to be major success!!

Agree, but it's too late for this generation.. obviously they don't have such engine developed to replace the current 4.2 V8!

[ZeroCool]

Qisha said some time ago, that there won't be a RS4 B8 ... so - i think that's the point!

I think that the engineers also wanted to do something more "cutting edge" like tailpipe said in his post...for the next gen RS4
But now it seems like the head of audi decided anyway to bring a new RS4 based on the current model .. because they think they need it - or something else?!??

so i think, it's more or less a copy from the RS5 - because it's the cheapest and fastest way to get a RS4 on the streets...

to sum up: it was not planned, someone had the idea...that they need it NOW ... so you get some kind of temporary solution?!?

[Toto89]

it's more or less a copy from the RS5 - because it's the cheapest and fastest way to get a RS4 on the streets...

to sum up: it was not planned, someone had the idea...that they need it NOW ... so you get some kind of temporary solution?!?
I think that is the point here. I remember that when the RS5 was revealed (which was not a long time ago) somebody (maybe Qisha?) said that it is the last NA RS car from Quattro Gmbh. They have probably change their mind rapidly.

[Ritchy]

Audi should be proactive, not reactive to be major success!!

Fully agree with you...seems you are working for my managment staff !

I've tested the RS5 for half an hour. And anybody can say it's not a good car. Obviously it is, disregarding few details (paddle shift, wheelsteering....evrything known even before testing the car...ah, if i was working for Audi....)

But it's not an extraordinary car. That sort of car you'll never forget in your life. Like my first AMG, or Ferrari test drive.

Pitty. But Audi only considers one thing: is the model going to be a best seller. And i'm sure it is. But careful.....as artur said, Audi have to be a proactive compagny. The sells in the future depend of what they are doing now. That means considering every custumer's remarks.

[tailpipe]

What previous RS models are you referring to? none of them were better dynamically than any M3!
And also, an A5 has always been slotted between 3er and 6er bm, hence direct comparison of RS5 to M3 is not completely accurate!

The original RS2 was probably in a class of it's own rather than directly comparable to anything equivalent that BMW had produced, but was such a unique and capable car that it set a benchmark for RS cars. Everyone loved it because it was so discreet. Like the original Quattro, it hammered cars costing twice the price. I mean, hell, it was faster than a McLaren F1 to 30 mph!

The B7 RS4 was much more capable than the E46 M3. I know because I owned an M3 and when I first tested the RS4 against it, I was amazed at the power and usability of that power: 414 bhp versus 343 bhp. The problem was that the B7 RS4 came out six years after the E46 M3. And the E90 M3 came out within 2 years of that. So the RS4's dominance was short-lived. As Kreso says, an RS will outperform a BMW 365 days a year in the real world. The latest RS6 probably trumps the most recent M5 too. But it is arguably overkill.

[Fehli]

And when you think the RS4 comes?

Perhaps the End of 2011 or early 2012?:rs4kiss:

[darkop]

The original RS2 was probably in a class of it's own rather than directly comparable to anything equivalent that BMW had produced, but was such a unique and capable car that it set a benchmark for RS cars. Everyone loved it because it was so discreet. Like the original Quattro, it hammered cars costing twice the price. I mean, hell, it was faster than a McLaren F1 to 30 mph!

The B7 RS4 was much more capable than the E46 M3. I know because I owned an M3 and when I first tested the RS4 against it, I was amazed at the power and usability of that power: 414 bhp versus 343 bhp. The problem was that the B7 RS4 came out six years after the E46 M3. And the E90 M3 came out within 2 years of that. So the RS4's dominance was short-lived. As Kreso says, an RS will outperform a BMW 365 days a year in the real world. The latest RS6 probably trumps the most recent M5 too. But it is arguably overkill.
You can say what you like but B7 RS4 bested previous M3 just in terms of power (it wasn't that hard with that power difference) but that was not the point! E46 M3 was much more accomplished car, balanced for pure fun on the roads! Then came e90 M3 which is more direct competitor of RS4 and it smashed it instantly... New RS5 (and prospective B8 RS4 Avant), although maybe not faster everywhere, is much more accomplished car, tailored not for pure track enjoyment but for real world tasks, and as such represents a real true competitor of the e90 M3, but at the same time going towards M6 with its GT credentials! It's not an automotive blast on its own, or how we would like it to be, but nevertheless a true success!
Cheers

[tailpipe]

Darkop,

I know what you mean. BMW's M cars tend to have a purity and focus that is bound to be lacking in a car with the extra weight of All-Wheel Drive and more weight over the front axle. Perhaps the RS5 is closer to the M3 than the B7 was. I still feel that the B7 was an amazing car. You could drive it so fast in all conditions. Driving from London to Gstaad in winter was not something you ever wanted to do in an M3 - snow hated BMWs. But the RS4 was incredible. We all know why.

So, will the B8 RS4 be a bad car? No, not at all. It will be sensational. We all still want very powerful AWD RS cars, no question. But what we also want is better fuel economy and emissions. That's why the B8 S4 is such a clever car. Is there not a danger of the RS4 as being less sophisticated?

I guess perception will depend on how the new 4.0 compares to the NA 4.2.

[Joker]

I guess perception will depend on how the new 4.0 compares to the NA 4.2.

That was a smart statement. This latest 4.2 is a very clever engine compared to the older one from the RS4 but I imagine the newer 4.0TFSi will do everything better, it will be torquier, probably offer as much power and yet be easier to run and on the enviornment.

I can think of only three areas where the 4.2 will be better, sound, revs and weight. But I would forgo all of those for an extra dollop of torque.

[Fab]

For me the RS4 is THE Audi RS flagship (at least has been up to now) lets hope next one gets some extra characteristics that will make it continue the B5/B7 history and not only a "RS5 avant".

[darkop]

Darkop,

I know what you mean. BMW's M cars tend to have a purity and focus that is bound to be lacking in a car with the extra weight of All-Wheel Drive and more weight over the front axle. Perhaps the RS5 is closer to the M3 than the B7 was. I still feel that the B7 was an amazing car. You could drive it so fast in all conditions. Driving from London to Gstaad in winter was not something you ever wanted to do in an M3 - snow hated BMWs. But the RS4 was incredible. We all know why.

So, will the B8 RS4 be a bad car? No, not at all. It will be sensational. We all still want very powerful AWD RS cars, no question. But what we also want is better fuel economy and emissions. That's why the B8 S4 is such a clever car. Is there not a danger of the RS4 as being less sophisticated?

I guess perception will depend on how the new 4.0 compares to the NA 4.2.


That was a smart statement. This latest 4.2 is a very clever engine compared to the older one from the RS4 but I imagine the newer 4.0TFSi will do everything better, it will be torquier, probably offer as much power and yet be easier to run and on the enviornment.

I can think of only three areas where the 4.2 will be better, sound, revs and weight. But I would forgo all of those for an extra dollop of torque.

If you drive something as RS5 is - the fuel consumption would be only of a secondary concern to you! There are plenty of other A4/5 that you can drive and feel you're saving on fuel! Nevertheless, if you drive it normally, even the RS5 would be considered not thirsty for such car, and certainly much less than previous RS4...

New 4.0 tfsi wouldn't be an engine of choice in that segment, as Qisha noted, so you cannot compare high revving 4.2 to that engine... Smaller displacement FI V6 will replace it in next gen B9 platform. FI V8 with stage 1 (S6/7) and 2 (S8) will replace current v10s (not sure though about RS versions!)...

[Fab]

What they meant is that today you can get powerfull and sporty engine with sub 250 gr/CO2. Of course fuel consumption is not an issue for an RS owner...

[tailpipe]

If you drive something as RS5 is - the fuel consumption would be only of a secondary concern to you! There are plenty of other A4/5 that you can drive and feel you're saving on fuel! Nevertheless, if you drive it normally, even the RS5 would be considered not thirsty for such car, and certainly much less than previous RS4...

New 4.0 tfsi wouldn't be an engine of choice in that segment, as Qisha noted, so you cannot compare high revving 4.2 to that engine... Smaller displacement FI V6 will replace it in next gen B9 platform. FI V8 with stage 1 (S6/7) and 2 (S8) will replace current v10s (not sure though about RS versions!)...

Fuel concern was an issue when i drove a B7 RS4 from London to italy. When i "pushed on" i was getting much less than 20 mpg and with the small fuel tank, i found myself being forced to stop every 230-250 miles.

Everyone thinks that because Qisha has stated that the B8 RS4 will share the same 'set-up' as the RS5 it will get the same engine. I interpret the word set-up to mean suspension components, but not necessarily power unit. So maybe it could get a beefed-up version of the 3.0-litre V6 from the S4. (Perhpas Qisha you would like to confirm same engine as RS5 for B8 RS4?) We know that Audi is doing a lot of development work on its forced V6s at this time. i am probably wrong on this, but if i were head of engine development at Audi and I wasn't allowed to use the new 4.0-litre V8, then i would suggest an upgraded 3.0-litre V6 from the S4. I don't think that would be more expensive in terms of development costs than using the RS5's 4.2-litre V8.

I am also cynical about the use of the 4.0-litre. This engine was originally designated for the RS4, but since it was first envisaged, it needs to be used much more widely within the VW Group. in addition to the A8, A7, A6 and R8 getting it, Bentley will be using it and so will Porsche. So suddenly it cannot be used in a humble A4 anymore. Hence Qisha's comment: don't expect to see it in a B segment car. Why not, Qisha? I don't want to drive a Bentley or A8. They're too damn big and as soon as the taxman sees them parked outside your house, he comes knocking.

Give me discreet power.

[Fab]

. I don't want to drive a Bentley or A8. They're too damn big and as soon as the taxman sees them parked outside your house, he comes knocking.

Give me discreet power. sooo true these days :jlol:

[Aronis]

As Kreso says, an RS will outperform a BMW 365 days a year in the real world. The latest RS6 probably trumps the most recent M5 too. But it is arguably overkill.

Audi is loosing that quickly.

See BMW 550xi M-Sport, TT V8, AWD, electronics not found in any Audi. THe next M5 is to be based on that same TT V8, but RWD only.

I left BMW for an AWD full size sedan for my growing family after driving a '97 M3 for 5 years. My first A6 4.2 was ok but not fun like my RS6. Now with 105,000 miles on it I will be looking for a worthy replacement. Audi has done nothing to upgrade the extras in the S6! So I think with AWD BMW 5 series cars out there, Audi is in trouble.

Mike

[Joker]

Audi is loosing that quickly.

See BMW 550xi M-Sport, TT V8, AWD, electronics not found in any Audi. THe next M5 is to be based on that same TT V8, but RWD only.

Please explain what makes the 550xi so much better than any Audi with quattro?

TTv8, great engine but I have read that it can be made to overheat under track conditions.

X-Drive, is it seriously superior than the latest quattro system employed in the RS5 which is being rolled out universally in all future quattro equipped cars.

Electronics, what has BMW got that Audi don't?

As for the M5, it will be bloody quick in a straight line and in the dry but what will happen to it when the weather turns nasty? Then I would rather have the slightly slower RS6.


I left BMW for an AWD full size sedan for my growing family after driving a '97 M3 for 5 years. My first A6 4.2 was ok but not fun like my RS6. Now with 105,000 miles on it I will be looking for a worthy replacement. Audi has done nothing to upgrade the extras in the S6! So I think with AWD BMW 5 series cars out there, Audi is in trouble.

Mike

I've yet to drive an x-Drive saloon car, only an few BMW SUVs but based on those experiences I don't think Audi have anything to worry about.

BMW make great rwd cars but you can tell that they don't throw the same commitment into their awd ones.

[rs4some]

Don't know how accurate this is though apparently the RS4 is to be ditched. Qisha any insight?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/95941/audi-rs4-model-to-be-ditched-report/

[S6V10Avant]

I guess they will consider dropping the RS4 with the proposed engine (4.2 NA like the RS5) due to it already being dated and uncompetitive. My guess is that it will reappear with the next model.

[Fehli]

New RS4 comes 2012

http://www.audiblog.nl/?p=41171

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiblog.nl%2F%3Fp%3D41171

[darkop]

Don't know how accurate this is though apparently the RS4 is to be ditched. Qisha any insight?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/95941/audi-rs4-model-to-be-ditched-report/

I don't know how come that no one took notice of the last sentence in this article?!!!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/259804/audis_rs3_storms_in.html

it's been confirmed by many, so look no further!

[Zyklon5]

Pretty damn curious about the engine choice. :D

[darkop]

Pretty damn curious about the engine choice. :D
same as the RS5. already said in here!

[Zyklon5]

same as the RS5. already said in here!

That is very disappointing.

[Thom_RS6]

only rs4 b8 avant ?

[Joker]

only rs4 b8 avant ?

It appears to be so and this same will probably to true for the choice of engine.

[tailpipe]

Very interesting post on this subject by our friend George on Fortitude. He reckons that the 4.0-litre TFSI V8 will be a ubiquitous high performance powerplant in the same way that Mercedes-Benz AMG's 5.5-litre V8 engine is used across different models. This being the case, we should see a V8 TFSI equipped RS4 sooner or later. Of further interest is that the current 450 bhp NA V8 in the RS5 is very close to the 3.0-litre TFSI in the S4 in terms of overall performance. I am certainly a great fan of this engine. It's a masterpiece.

[Joker]

Very interesting post on this subject by our friend George on Fortitude. He reckons that the 4.0-litre TFSI V8 will be a ubiquitous high performance powerplant in the same way that Mercedes-Benz AMG's 5.5-litre V8 engine is used across different models. This being the case, we should see a V8 TFSI equipped RS4 sooner or later. Of further interest is that the current 450 bhp NA V8 in the RS5 is very close to the 3.0-litre TFSI in the S4 in terms of overall performance. I am certainly a great fan of this engine. It's a masterpiece.

I reckon Qisha has answered this on the other thread.

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21979-Possible-switch-to-FI-for-RS5?p=204448&viewfull=1#post204448

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

there have never been any plans to engineer a RS 4 Sedan (B8). The RS 4 Avant however is still on schedule (most likely debut @IAA 2011).

Qisha

[tvrfan]

so will be there no more ever a RS4 sedan? also not on B9 B10 B11....... ??? :((

i hope this doesnt go the same way on the RS6.

[Joker]

Very interesting post on this subject by our friend George on Fortitude. He reckons that the 4.0-litre TFSI V8 will be a ubiquitous high performance powerplant in the same way that Mercedes-Benz AMG's 5.5-litre V8 engine is used across different models. This being the case, we should see a V8 TFSI equipped RS4 sooner or later. Of further interest is that the current 450 bhp NA V8 in the RS5 is very close to the 3.0-litre TFSI in the S4 in terms of overall performance. I am certainly a great fan of this engine. It's a masterpiece.

Mercedes don't seem to be giving the C-class AMG the 5.5 engine, instead it's soldiering on with the 6.2L it's always had, maybe they decided the switch would alienate the ones that already own the pre-face lift version.

Maybe such a move of switching the 4.2L for the 4.0T in the RS5 would also be a step far too. :nono:

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[AndyBG]

Merc' is keepinig 6.2l V8 n/a in C63, and I think it will keep it until the end of production of current C class... Also I'm expecting Audi to power next RS 4 with 4.2 n/a, as RS 5...
No reason for them to put future RS 6 engine in the outgoing model (B8)...

[r8dream]

Dear Friends,

there have never been any plans to engineer a RS 4 Sedan (B8). The RS 4 Avant however is still on schedule (most likely debut @IAA 2011).

Qisha

please mr qisha, tell us there will be a manual 6 speed for rs4 avant.

[Joker]

please mr qisha, tell us there will be a manual 6 speed for rs4 avant.

If there were to be a manual option then you would have saw it on the RS5.

[tailpipe]

I hear that the B8 RS4 Avant that Qisha said would appear at the IAA in September has now been cancelled.

Anyone know anything about this?

[Sims]

I hear that the B8 RS4 Avant that Qisha said would appear at the IAA in September has now been cancelled.

Anyone know anything about this?


Too many RS's? And luke warm response to the RS5?

[darkop]

hmm, quite possible since we haven't seen anything 'till now..

[rs4some]

I would say so as every other RS model from C6 RS6, TTRS etc you have seen out testing a good 10 months prior to be released - nothing has been spotted of this so its doubtful i would say of being released this year

[darkop]

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-audi-rs4-avant-mule-spy-shots_100344979_m.jpg

Seems like we have given up too early!

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1057567_spy-shots-2014-audi-rs4-avant-mule

And of course it won't be ''2014'', but much sooner! ;)

[tailpipe]

This is great news.

I guess the engine will be the RS5's 4.2 litre V8 FSI developing 450 bhp?

But we also have the the new S6 rumoured to be arriving as soon as Frankfurt with the newer 4.0 litre V8 TFSI developing 408 bhp?

It's going to be tough to choose between them. Nice problem to have.
:hihi::hihi::hihi:

[rs4some]

fantastic news! looks like it is getting the rounded guards of the B7 rs4 which is great. Hoping it gets a manuel gearbox option as well and not the stronic in the rs5

[Joker]

This is great news.

I guess the engine will be the RS5's 4.2 litre V8 FSI developing 450 bhp?

But we also have the the new S6 rumoured to be arriving as soon as Frankfurt with the newer 4.0 litre V8 TFSI developing 408 bhp?

It's going to be tough to choose between them. Nice problem to have.
:hihi::hihi::hihi:

Only playing devil's advocate here but if Audi did indeed switch engines to the newer and more economical 4.0TFSI then could they possibly ignore giving the RS5 this engine using the excuse that the two car are somehow different?

So where does that leave the RS4, will it or won't it get the new engine?

I'm of the opinion that the RS4 Avant will retain the same tried and tested engine of the RS5, it works well with the chassis and drivetrain with little or no real development work compare to what an engine swap would bring. I only hope they bring some weight savings this time and make it a much more competitive package overall.

P.S.
But what if Audi decided to ditch the V8 option altogether, retain the 3.0v6 of the S4 but switch from supercharger to a bi-turbo configuration, this would line it up with the new M3, itself making the switch to FI and downsizing at the same time. The timing of the RS4 would coincide with the M3 release date or at the very least be around the same time. An interesting possibility don't you think. ;)
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[darkop]

There is only 3 - 3.5 years of running for both B8 A4/5 so not feasible to introduce new engine formula from quattro Gmbh! Wait for next gen B9 for something new! Till that time 4.2 will serve well, more so when there won't be a competitor from M division and Mercs C class retains 6.2 N/a engine!

[YlwBeast]

To quote Qisha, "Whoever is dreaming about a forced V8 in the B Segment Class... time to wake up. This is not going to happen. The upcoming way is light, economical but still powerful... and i like it. " No one picked up forced V8 in B segment not happening...and "light".

My guess, wish, would be UR Quattro direction. If we remember the "beast" A5 with the upcoming RS3 2.5T tweaked to above-400 bhp, I would love to see this as the RS4 B8 or later!!! We already know that Audi can place the motor longitudinally in this platform and bhp would be tuned higher than RS3.

Audi was very sneaky with the intro of this A5, promoting "lighter". With bhp/liter numbers in Veyron territory (for what that's worth), at least this would separate the RS4 from the upcoming RS6 and RS7. Also bring the RS4 back to the original B5 somewhat.

This would definitely be my wish!!! Audi are you listening??? Qisha, is this what you were hinting at?

[Zyklon5]

RS4 with the 2.5 TFSI would be wicked, but i wonder if Audi can safely squeeze 440 bhp out of it.

[YlwBeast]

Zyklon5, to answer your question, check out MTM website and the upgrade for the TT-RS (472bhp on request) so I'm sure AUDI could easily give us 440bhp.

With this motor I don't see 6-speed in the forecast, more like DSG or S-tronic (7-speed)...unless they were going to do something special for the US market similar to BMW w/ M5 previous gen...highly unlikely!

[tailpipe]

When i heard about the new RS4, i wondered how it will compare to the RS3. I prefer the RS3's engine, more compact dimensions and price. That said, an Rs4 with a 2.5 litre 5-cylinder engine developing 400+ bhp in a lightened A4 Avant chassis would be a thing of wonder.

Sadly, I don't see it happening, at least not before B9. Those who say the 4.2 V8 is the motor Audi will use must surely be right, but Audi is milking this unit for all its worth. They've already done the development work with the RS5, so the same configuration in an RS4 saves time and money while delivering a worthwhile extra boost in performance. As much as we'd all like a 4.0 litre TFSI, it looks like this is being kept for A6 and above.

Joker, a twin turbo 3.0 litre V6 would also be a very interesting choice. Again, I just don't think it is going to happen before B9. With Audi having just sold its 5 millionth A4, you'd think this car would get a bit more love than Audi seems to be giving it. It just doesn't quite do it for me.

[rks838]

A few pics and further rumors - http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2011/03/spy-photos-2012-audi-rs4-avant.html

[Joker]

When i heard about the new RS4, i wondered how it will compare to the RS3. I prefer the RS3's engine, more compact dimensions and price. That said, an Rs4 with a 2.5 litre 5-cylinder engine developing 400+ bhp in a lightened A4 Avant chassis would be a thing of wonder.

In the long term this will be the engine used in a lot of future RS models below a certain body size, or at the very least a derivative of this engine and as weights drop which they undoubtedly will, the need for outputs much beyond 400hp will probably not be required. Just look how quick a 1520kg TTRS can shift, 3.6s to 60, 9.3s to 100 and 17s to 130mph, so imagine if the next B9 RS4 weighed no more than 1550kg and had 420hp, the thing would be a monster.

No this engine is here to stand I feel.


Sadly, I don't see it happening, at least not before B9. Those who say the 4.2 V8 is the motor Audi will use must surely be right, but Audi is milking this unit for all its worth. They've already done the development work with the RS5, so the same configuration in an RS4 saves time and money while delivering a worthwhile extra boost in performance. As much as we'd all like a 4.0 litre TFSI, it looks like this is being kept for A6 and above.

I won't want a 4.0T in this car, sure it would have effortless speed but the extra weight would cause the handling and more particularly the steering would suffer, two things that have shown get promise in the A6 because they have addressed it's overall weight and produced a more balanced chassis weight (55/45) compared with previous. Much better to work with smaller, lighter engines that are more efficient that asking power to cure all failings.


Joker, a twin turbo 3.0 litre V6 would also be a very interesting choice. Again, I just don't think it is going to happen before B9. With Audi having just sold its 5 millionth A4, you'd think this car would get a bit more love than Audi seems to be giving it. It just doesn't quite do it for me.

It's a better choice in my opinion than the N/A 4.2 in the RS5, it's a great engine but better suited to a true sportcar which is light and agile and preferable with said engine mid-mounted. In my opinion the RS5 needed a FI engine from the very start and would have probably have got it if the world hadn't gone to shit and forced the decision to release at that time instead of waiting. Likewise I doubt they wanted it to weigh as much as it did but again the economic climate probably effected their proposed sales projections and stopped to use of light weight materials on this occasion.

P.S.
I don't believe the fact the v6 wasn't a quattroGmbH developed engine effected their decision one bit, the RS4 was derived from the then S4 engine and the new RS6 will be a development from the 4.0TFSI used else where, so the 3.0v6 could equally have received the same treatment. Time and money are the more likely reasons if you ask me.
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[QuattroFun]

Nothing is impossible, but it seems highly unlikely that the RS4 (a low volume model) would not get the same engine as the RS5 from economic point of view. However, what Audi should focus on is the gearing - shorten ratios for a heavier car.

[mruser]

I have no Idea of what is coming but I do not see Audi putting the same engine on 2 different generations of RS4s... Ok is not exactly the same engine but... not so different either especially to the eyes of the public.

My 2 cents worth

[Joker]

I do agree with you, though this would be in an ideal world which we all know isn't the case at the moment, performance cars aren't exactly flavour of the day and their sales reflect that, so companies are looking at how to get something to production as quickly and more importantly as cheaply as possible. So the logical answer would be to use the V8 from the RS5 but do minor tweaks to make it competitive.

Anyhow we will probably know soon enough because someone will leak the official ETKA when it's details finally appear.

[AndyBG]

My guess is that 4.2 will once again be the engine in RS 4...

[Chuvips]

Anyone heard about manual gearbox option? I hope sooo much!

[youry]

they are not goign to do that for just a couple of people only. the best perforamnce is with Stronic and you only get the advantages and no disadvantages so there is not reason to do that... RS3 only available with Stronic.

TTRS would have been as well if they had a Stronic available at that time to be honest (100% sure about that)

From a guy who have alats hated automatic gearboxes...

[Chuvips]

S-tronic is probably the best automatic gearbox, but it is still an automatic! I really care about the pleasure I get from manual, changing gears myself

[youry]

I do change the gears myself on my RS5 at least 80% of the time. no issues

[Chuvips]

Just cause there's no pleasure pushing a button on steering wheel. But this is really a pleasure for me to work with clutch, gas, gear lever to change gears, and I don't want to lose this pleasure. I don't care in this case that S-tronic is 0,1 faster 0-100, I just want to do it all by myself...

[youry]

you'll have to go for another car then

[Chuvips]

Unfortunately there's not a great choice of 4wd saloons or vagons with manual and 400+hp.
Being an Audi-fan, I don't have choice at all anymore...

[Joker]

Chuvips,

What can I say other than 'get use to it' because the manual transmission is all but died in luxury and performance based cars. No one wants them other than a very select few. Blame Audi for making Dual Clutch Transmission work so perfect for everyday driving and making it so much quicker than shifting yourself which in turn made it an instant success that forced everyone else to follow suit, thus sealing the fate of your beloved manual.

[Chuvips]

Yes, can't agree more...
I see that anyway no manual will be available soon at all. But I was hoping that this "soon" would be not today:)

[Joker]

Yes, can't agree more...
I see that anyway no manual will be available soon at all. But I was hoping that this "soon" would be not today:)

Well in the case of performance RS models it looks like "soon" has come and gone with the TTRS being the only one offered in manual form.

[AndyBG]

Some more pic's...

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/04/scoop-new-audi-rs4-avant-snagged.html

[Ruergard]

I wan't something new on the engine department... :(

And give us the option to choose which gearbox we wan't ourselves, please.

[Joker]

^ Isn't going to happen, only S-Tronic and only the same 450hp engine from the RS5. But I think you will find that the chassis weight balance will be better than the coupe and as such it will actually feel more alive in the same way as the RS3 is compared to the TTRS.

Not saying the RS5 was a mistake but it way probably pushed into production with more compromises than the engineers would have wanted.

[rs4some]

New facelift S4, updated grill just a shame that they havent used the same lights as on the A1 and A6.

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_6750.shtml

[HKS786]

That's more than just a facelift. The whole front end has been redesigned with a TT-S style bumper and new grille!

It certainly looks more aggressive but I'm not sure yet if I like it. I like the S4 the way it is. Remember it "only" competes with the 335i M-sport so it doesn't have to look anything extreme. Actually a more understated look might be better. Anyway, will need to see official pics to make up my mind.

It seems this new grille design is making it's way across the range. I just hope they don't look too similar. I like the new A6 and I just hope the A4 facelift doesnt look too similar.

[youry]

well they just change the frontgrill adn front bumper on the front end so its not that much changes.

The fenders, the lights, and the engine bonnet are the same.

what I do think is that the holes of the bumpers will actually be filled with some grill so it will look smarter....when that is finished. as is it sucks, but it won't stay as is.

[darkop]

Don't forget that's just a mule, so incomplete... And that's no S4 but RS4 (look at those rotors and calipers!)! New front treatments will include new full-LED headlights (outer shape stays the same!) and back will get new rear-lights graphics, similar to what's shown on recent A5/S5 FL spy shots...

[Joker]

Don't forget that's just a mule, so incomplete... And that's no S4 but RS4 (look at those rotors and calipers!)! New front treatments will include new full-LED headlights (outer shape stays the same!) and back will get new rear-lights graphics, similar to what's shown on recent A5/S5 FL spy shots...

I haven't seen the pic of the rotors, do you have one.

Anyhow back to the car itself, I don't agree that this is necessarily an RS4 mule instead of an S4, the nose treatment would be more in line with what is expected for the S4 and we have already seen the RS4 mule with it's increased wheel tracking on another estate which needed extentions on the rear arches to accommodate, on this example these are missing which leds me to think this mightn't be an RS4 after all.

As for the LED lights, as far as I am aware the new ones will look more aggressive in the style of the new A6/7, the same is true for the style of grille.

[RXBG]

i expect an even 350 hp from the updated motor. but what i really hope to see is an update to the 211 hp 2.0T to maybe 230.

[Sims]

Spam.....