Thanks for the headache Audi service. (my ongoing "glitch" saga)

[V8weight]

I've been dealing with an ongoing issue with my car for the last month, and to compound the problems associated with troubleshooting, the issue emerged after I installed the MTM tcu chip and an unknown used ecu with a flash.
The issue is that under moderate throttle, (never full throttle, just under partial load) the car has .4 sec glitch where the engine seemingly cuts out, then comes back on full force, causing a pretty severe driveline shock. At this moment the CEL and ESP lights briefly illuminate. Blocks 120 and 122 in the vag call this "torque reduction" where the ecu suddenly requests a decrease in torque. When the logs record the torque reduction event, there is also a trend where the time stamps lose a moment of data, as if the ecu momentarily loses communication during this period. I've done no less than 25 logs to try to isolate the cause of this torque reduction and have come up empty. The lambda values are good, no misfires, no knock detection, IAT's are low, and no stored codes. Because of the ESP and CEL briefly appearing, I was inclined to check out the the MAF's tonight, just in case there was a frayed wire or anything that could cause a brief short in the MAF's.
What I found was pretty frustrating. First of all, when I removed the air cleaner assy. the seal fell out of it's seat. When I looked out to find out why, I found that there was a rather large chunk of the aluminum inlet that had been broken off, allowing what I would perceive as a substantial amount of un-metered air to enter the intake. This would explain quite a lot if this is in fact the culprit. This would be why the glitch only appears under partial throttle, as under full throttle, the car goes into closed loop and no longer uses the MAF values. This was probably broken when the dealership replaced my secondary coolant pump,(it would appear that they pried against the inlet pipe to free up the intake) and it didn't cause an issue until I was tuned and the car was suddenly drawing an additional 70g/s of air through the MAF's. I have no idea how I'm going to make this stick to Audi and get them to replace the turbo inlet pipe. For now I drove the seal back in place and sealed the outside with black RTV sealant. Keep your fingers crossed for me that this finally brings a resolution to this ongoing nightmare.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/DSC00532.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/DSC00531.jpg

[4everRS]

Many fingers crossed. Hard to type.

Seriously, what a f-ing joke. Come on Audi, your service techs are better that this. I guess I thought they were.

[V8weight]

On a side note, I'm running a Eurocharged tune, and I can't stress enough that their tune has nothing to do with this, as well as the MTM chip. As of today, I was thinking that the used ecu was bad, but as of right now I'm putting all of my chips on this broken inlet.

[ben916]

how convenient for the un-SERVICE department to mention their opps...

Have you run any logs with your fix?

[V8weight]

how convenient for the un-SERVICE department to mention their opps...

Have you run any logs with your fix?
No, I just put it back together about an hour ago. I haven't even started the car as I'd like for the sealant to dry as long as possible. If this does fix the issue, it's going straight to Audi so I can rub their nose in this.

[DHall1]

Post up another monkey wrench issue.

Pat and I had a long talk about this situation. The "techs" are not the "techs" that you would expect working on these cars in most all Audi dealers. Sometimes there are lines that get crossed to turn that 250% to quota labor threshold. You see...techs get paid a bonus when certain flag labor rates get turned in. In my mind a Audi master tech should get the top dollar from hour one and not have to chase some money tree and book 100hrs a week to get a decent wage. I blame it on the greedy dealer because they dont want hire more techs...they want 2-300% output from the existing labor rats and ride them for as long as poss.

That is why the best techs leave and open quality indy shops.

.02c


No, I just put it back together about an hour ago. I haven't even started the car as I'd like for the sealant to dry as long as possible. If this does fix the issue, it's going straight to Audi so I can rub their nose in this.

[skribe]

Wow. That's unbelievable. I just had my intake off for the first time today, obviously there are three bolts holding it down. What kind of gorilla jabs a flathead between the O2 sensor and inlet pipe and starts prying?

Oh, the "Audi Master Tech" at the dealership who's three weeks out of UTI, that's who. The dealership makes more money the faster and cheaper they do your job and they more they can bill either you, AUDI NA, Fidelity, or your other warranty holder. Their motivation is not to take care of us, it's to make money. Service managers are just a slightly different flavor of salesmen. As a rule, never trust them.

[snoopra]

Another question, where did that broken chunk go? Lets hope they covered the pipes before f*ing around.

[DHall1]

Skribe,

Were you on the call with Pat and myself yesterday? Exactly what we said. "the Audi master tech 3 weeks out of UTI"

Too funny. Way too funny.

At this point, I almost wish I didnt have Fidelity. I dont have much motivation to ever take my car into the dealers. Good thing Audi N Scottsdale is still keeping their reputation. If it goes in the $hitter then I will find a indy shop to do my Fidelity work. I think Peiserg has a race shop with a former RS6 tech that does all his NSX work.


Wow. That's unbelievable. I just had my intake off for the first time today, obviously there are three bolts holding it down. What kind of gorilla jabs a flathead between the O2 sensor and inlet pipe and starts prying?

Oh, the "Audi Master Tech" at the dealership who's three weeks out of UTI, that's who. The dealership makes more money the faster and cheaper they do your job and they more they can bill either you, AUDI NA, Fidelity, or your other warranty holder. Their motivation is not to take care of us, it's to make money. Service managers are just a slightly different flavor of salesmen. As a rule, never trust them.

[DHall1]

If they didnt the turbo and engine would have blown up on the first start up.

#1 reason for blown up RS6 engines during routine maint? Tech stuffs rags in the turbo inlet pipes and forgets them during a timing belt job or some other major service. Start the car and boom. Order new 40,000 dollar Cosworth lump boys.


Another question, where did that broken chunk go? Lets hope they covered the pipes before f*ing around.

[V8weight]

Quick update: The beast appears so far to be back in business. Obviously a glob of silicone is not a permanent solution, but I've finally isolated the problem that's been haunting me for months. I haven't logged the car yet, but it's making the full tire spinning power that I remember when I first got the flash. No more torque reduction in the early onset of boost. I have to say, I'm almost overwhelmed with both relief and satisfaction, but at the same time frustration and malice. Now I have to make the decision to either drive this thing through Audi's front window, or just whip out the JB Weld.

[DHall1]

Who are we to say "how" this turbo housing cracked.

Read your Zurich policy my good buddy. Read it. If engine blocks and "turbo castings" are covered...then this may be a covered item. Its clearly not a "wear" item.

:hahahehe:


Quick update: The beast appears so far to be back in business. Obviously a glob of silicone is not a permanent solution, but I've finally isolated the problem that's been haunting me for months. I haven't logged the car yet, but it's making the full tire spinning power that I remember when I first got the flash. No more torque reduction in the early onset of boost. I have to say, I'm almost overwhelmed with both relief and satisfaction, but at the same time frustration and malice. Now I have to make the decision to either drive this thing through Audi's front window, or just whip out the JB Weld.

[V8weight]

Who are we to say "how" this turbo housing cracked.

Read your Zurich policy my good buddy. Read it. If engine blocks and "turbo castings" are covered...then this may be a covered item. Its clearly not a "wear" item.

:hahahehe:
Hmm, it would appear so. I don't know if this would fall under the "factory installed turbocharger" or "exhaust/ intake manifold" but there is surely no exclusion in my comprehensive description. As a matter of principle, I would rather the dealership pay for their mistake as opposed to my warranty, but what the hey. What's the point of letting ideology get in the way of fixing my car . Beggars can't be choosers at this point.

[DHall1]

Now, take it to the service manager and give him the choice to come thru and make this happen or eat the repair.


Hmm, it would appear so. I don't know if this would fall under the "factory installed turbocharger" or "exhaust/ intake manifold" but there is surely no exclusion in my comprehensive description. As a matter of principle, I would rather the dealership pay for their mistake as opposed to my warranty, but what the hey. What's the point of letting ideology get in the way of fixing my car . Beggars can't be choosers at this point.

[V8weight]

Now, take it to the service manager and give him the choice to come thru and make this happen or eat the repair.
I can buy the new inlet pipe for $187.20, and beer is $17.95 a case.............

[GEN XER]

Dave you said it. They don't want to pay their really good Tech's who have all the experience. These guys then leave the dealer and start competing shops, and if they know half of what they are doing then they will have a Million Dollar a year Business in less than 5 years. I see new customers come into HB Motorwerks literally on a daily basis mad as hell at the Greenbriar VW dealer right down the street. I also see many Audi customers who are just tired of paying out of the ass simply because they drive an Audi. We have one local Audi dealer and it is Checkered Flag Audi and they have the attitude of "who else are you going to use". The next Audi dealer is one hour away and they are the better of the two. I took my car there for my DRC issue. I then frantically searched for an Indy shop that could do the work and I found HB Motorwerks. I am so glad I don't have to worry about my cars anymore.