Sometimes you just can't win...

[Mikk23]

One of those days where you just wish you could go back to bed and have a "do over"

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/mikk23/IMAG0049.jpg

So...my mother in law is in town visiting...flew in last night. And today we decided to head into town to do some shopping...what better idea than give her a ride in my new sweet car? Its about a thirty minute drive...and about twenty minutes in...the RS6 just straight up dies...and I coast to a stop on the side of the road. Three generations staring at me...mother in law, wife, and daughter. So I am at a bit of a loss...I shut the key off...and then turn it back on. No check engine lights...everything looks fine. I give the key a turn and it starts right up...at this point I'm closer to my destination than home...so I continue to the local shopping center. We found a central parking spot an walked between a few stores. And wouldn't you know that when we were done shopping...it wouldn't start...not even sputter...turns over like a champ though lol. So then I notice that the check engine light is off...which is backwards...before you start the car its always on until a second after it fires up...then it shuts off. Then the big one hit me...all the gears are highlighted at the same time. Which I remember reading in the owners manual (yes...I'm one of those guys that reads them) signifies a transmission failure of some sort. Oh boy...its Sunday night on a holiday weekend...took two hours to get a tow truck out there and it wont get looked at until Tuesday.

The Gomofos really got me good. Oh...and Dave...thanks again for pressing the warranty issue...I'm curious if I'll break even on the 4k I forked out for the warranty within the first two months :applause:

On the plus side I got the BND oil, power steering fluid/catalyst, and ACESIV running as of last Wednesday! With in 24 hrs my power steering pump whine when turning the wheels in place dropped in half and is quieter ever day so far. It was pretty loud before the service and now barely a hum.

So anyone care to make a few stabs at what this catastrophic failure might be? Heres a pic I snapped of the cluster when it wouldn't start...you can see all the gears highlighted at once.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/mikk23/IMAG0044.jpg

[hahnmgh63]

Sorry to hear that. Please tell us that you have Vagcom. Running a scan should pretty much tell you what you need to know. Cam position/Hall sensor is my first guess?

[SAF]

...the RS6 just straight up dies...and I coast to a stop on the side of the road. Three generations staring at me...mother in law, wife, and daughter.

That right there is every man's worst nightmare.

[Mikk23]

Yeah...I have a vagcom...but I was 20mi from home. I had it towed to the shop instead of my house...they will be able to scan it on Tuesday and fwd me the bad news. I was thinking crank sensor because that would make the car roll to a stop for sure...but its weird that all the gears are selected like a transmission fault.

[Mikk23]

That right there is every man's worst nightmare.

Tell me about it...talk about awkward silence and a long drawn out deep breath.

[skribe]

Oh, dude. I feel your pain. I am sooooo lucky that my beast has been good to me in the first six months. It was one of those "you spent WHAT on a 7-year old used car?" scenarios. But sometimes these scenarios can go well... My RS6's first trip to the in-laws went like this:

We show up at their house. Father-in-law, an old-school biker, declines a ride. It's an import, not a '34 Ford. He don't care.

Mother-in-law thinks it looks nice. Asks for a ride. Wife says "let's go!" takes keys and the two of them disappear into the night. (wife who looks like anne hathaway, dreams of racing shifter carts, and hates to shop. I am a super lucky man. I just smile when she takes my keys.)

Ten minutes of SE exhaust noises and turbo spooling sounds in the distance later, they come back. Mother-in-law approaches father-in-law. Asks question: "How come you've never bought me a car like that?"

4 months later, every time I see father-in-law, I get good-natured shit for his wife repeatedly asking him for an Audi for her next car :-)

Anyway, Go(fuckyourself) Motors sold you a car with issues. I hope you can sort it out... My RS6 is the greatest car I've ever owned by a factor of 2. Having this car is making me more and more angry that Audi NA has decided that I (because I live in the US) are not worthy of owning a C6 RS6.

Good luck, man.

PS: Off-topic: had a minor race with a 2008+ VIPER ACR (!) on the way to little league saturday. In north shore Chicago, you pretty much see every kind of exotic car you can think of when it's warm out... Video is in my dead phone, will upload tuesday. Believe it or not, a fucking VIPER ACR (!) could not pull on my RS6 very well, which with new intercoolers and MTM stage 1 is pulling really strong right now. Pulling really strong -- makes me literally laugh out loud strong. Utterly destroyed and embarrassed a tuned Mustang GT with a really loud exhaust later that day strong.

The coolest thing about running into this rarest of the rare Vipers was, the guy driving the VIPER ACR (!) was as interested in my car as I was in his. :RS6fan:

[mmaturo]

ummm yes your tranny checked out...as the messenger of death here its gone or more precisely the torque converter. I've seen that once...it equaled new tranny. I'm on #4 in the car including the original. As the other person to force the extra warranty down the throat poster here its an i told you so. Sadly i'm out of everything and my tranny at 13K miles and 13 months since replaced (how convenient) is shifting bad... and no real abuse or track in that time and it still is checking out. Audi needs to step up to this as they did the DRC. Too bad it doesn't fail unsafely. I may soon ask here for everyone who has had a tranny failure go to post on the NHTSA site.

[skribe]

F-- me, again mmaturo? Big big bummer.

Mark, when you finally give up, remember to sell me your wheels. :o)

[mmaturo]

Oh, dude. I feel your pain. I am sooooo lucky that my beast has been good to me in the first six months. It was one of those "you spent WHAT on a 7-year old used car?" scenarios. But sometimes these scenarios can go well... My RS6's first trip to the in-laws went like this:

We show up at their house. Father-in-law, an old-school biker, declines a ride. It's an import, not a '34 Ford. He don't care.

Mother-in-law thinks it looks nice. Asks for a ride. Wife says "let's go!" takes keys and the two of them disappear into the night. (wife who looks like anne hathaway, dreams of racing shifter carts, and hates to shop. I am a super lucky man. I just smile when she takes my keys.)

Ten minutes of SE exhaust noises and turbo spooling sounds in the distance later, they come back. Mother-in-law approaches father-in-law. Asks question: "How come you've never bought me a car like that?"

4 months later, every time I see father-in-law, I get good-natured shit for his wife repeatedly asking him for an Audi for her next car :-)

Anyway, Go(fuckyourself) Motors sold you a car with issues. I hope you can sort it out... My RS6 is the greatest car I've ever owned by a factor of 2. Having this car is making me more and more angry that Audi NA has decided that I (because I live in the US) are not worthy of owning a C6 RS6.

Good luck, man.

PS: Off-topic: had a minor race with a 2008+ VIPER ACR (!) on the way to little league saturday. In north shore Chicago, you pretty much see every kind of exotic car you can think of when it's warm out... Video is in my dead phone, will upload tuesday. Believe it or not, a fucking VIPER ACR (!) could not pull on my RS6 very well, which with new intercoolers and MTM stage 1 is pulling really strong right now. Pulling really strong -- makes me literally laugh out loud strong. Utterly destroyed and embarrassed a tuned Mustang GT with a really loud exhaust later that day strong.

The coolest thing about running into this rarest of the rare Vipers was, the guy driving the VIPER ACR (!) was as interested in my car as I was in his. :RS6fan:

and this is why we put up with it... i dispense cars daily i feel like i should not and have a fantastic grin...5 years and going... Audi did miss selling 800 C6 RS6s to the original RS6 owners and another equal number on those second generation RS6 owners with the cash to do it. I would have/will. Over an R8 which i think is/was their problem. Mistake was we need a two door but still the f'ing ultimate 4 door family hauler.

[mmaturo]

F-- me, again mmaturo? Big big bummer.

Mark, when you finally give up, remember to sell me your wheels. :o)

LOl...NOPE Im driving this damn thing into the ground burning...can't sell it I'm killing it... its not dead yet just shifting oddly...fast as hell but a little off. I wish the tranny worked better as a brief run behind the wheel of P3Us car and then a short run behind him showed me even i'm a little slow. Just a little work and wow the possibilities.

[Mikk23]

ummm yes your tranny checked out...as the messenger of death here its gone or more precisely the torque converter. I've seen that once...it equaled new tranny...

So...in your experience (and I'm soooo sorry...4 times...good grief)...when the tranny craps out it can cause the engine to quit and keep the car from starting again? I know this car had the TC done about 14k ago if I recall from the records...I'd check but they are in the car 35 or so miles from here...

[mmaturo]

Mine never left me stuck... I got what you did but turned off and restarted and got going again but lost a few gears. My Rs has not left me stuck completely.

[ben916]

Then the big one hit me...all the gears are highlighted at the same time. Which I remember reading in the owners manual (yes...I'm one of those guys that reads them) signifies a transmission failure of some sort. Oh boy...

I read that last week also....
My guess is the wonderfully weak trans...

But you also tempted fate with the ENTIRE family in the car on a three day weekend...

[Mikk23]

I did tempt fate...I should have known better too. Funny story...but two years ago my mother in law came to visit and I was voluntold to pick her up at the airport. I was driving my 300zx TT at the time...and on the way back home about 10 minutes from the house my slave cylinder blew out and I was stuck in second gear. So I ended up blowing 4 stop signs and 2 red lights on the way home with her throwing a fit right next to me...I think that this is a sign...she isn't allowed to ride in my cars anymore...ever.

[Mikk23]

by the way...like my new avatar...I thought it was fitting until I come up with something better lol

[DHall1]

Best thread in months. Audi are you reading? You cant get any better market research than real RS6 owners telling stories. Just in this thread you have the entire spectrum of good, bad, ugly, family, test drive and fall in love, product demand and loyalty all wrapped up in comments. Skribe, excellent story and I can see your father in law just fuming every time he sees your car. Too funny. I have a family friend here in town that is a old fashioned racer. He raced super v's, and road bikes back in the day. Hard core bike and car guy that still rides a sport bike and a Superformance Cobra into his 70s. One ride in my RS6 and he wants to know what the hell is under the hood. (he hates riding passenger btw) We take some corners and extreme braking events and he just shakes his head. Nothing made at GM or Ford even comes close.

Audi, you lose RS owners on a monthly basis every year. When are you going to put a stop to it.

A couple of other notes. Skribe you picked the right car as did I and I will run mine into the ground with the Fidelity warranty running up to 2015. Until something comes along to take the place of this RS6 I will not purchase anything. Even if something comes along to purchase I will never sell my RS6. Some day I will get that C6 RS6 avant imported in the country even if I have to bribe the customs importer or buy a place in Mexico just to get plates. I would love to drive into the local Audi dealer and make the purchase of any number of models but we dont have that opportunity. We are kicked to the curb as rubbish and forced to dream of what if. Sucks.






Ten minutes of SE exhaust noises and turbo spooling sounds in the distance later, they come back. Mother-in-law approaches father-in-law. Asks question: "How come you've never bought me a car like that?"

4 months later, every time I see father-in-law, I get good-natured shit for his wife repeatedly asking him for an Audi for her next car :-)

Anyway, Go(fuckyourself) Motors sold you a car with issues. I hope you can sort it out... My RS6 is the greatest car I've ever owned by a factor of 2. Having this car is making me more and more angry that Audi NA has decided that I (because I live in the US) are not worthy of owning a C6 RS6.

Good luck, man.

PS: Off-topic: had a minor race with a 2008+ VIPER ACR (!) on the way to little league saturday. In north shore Chicago, you pretty much see every kind of exotic car you can think of when it's warm out... Video is in my dead phone, will upload tuesday. Believe it or not, a fucking VIPER ACR (!) could not pull on my RS6 very well, which with new intercoolers and MTM stage 1 is pulling really strong right now. Pulling really strong -- makes me literally laugh out loud strong. Utterly destroyed and embarrassed a tuned Mustang GT with a really loud exhaust later that day strong.

The coolest thing about running into this rarest of the rare Vipers was, the guy driving the VIPER ACR (!) was as interested in my car as I was in his. :RS6fan:

[DHall1]

Mark,

Dont you have Tozo in town? I would just take him the car and say make it good. Clearly, the trans is not up to your driving habits and if your planning to keep the car....then I say make it bulletproof and run it like you like.


ummm yes your tranny checked out...as the messenger of death here its gone or more precisely the torque converter. I've seen that once...it equaled new tranny. I'm on #4 in the car including the original. As the other person to force the extra warranty down the throat poster here its an i told you so. Sadly i'm out of everything and my tranny at 13K miles and 13 months since replaced (how convenient) is shifting bad... and no real abuse or track in that time and it still is checking out. Audi needs to step up to this as they did the DRC. Too bad it doesn't fail unsafely. I may soon ask here for everyone who has had a tranny failure go to post on the NHTSA site.

[DHall1]

BTW running with the Viper ACR in a stealth 7yr old RS6.

PRICELESS

[DHall1]

I wish it would have turned out better for ya. Sucks. Mine has needed literally nothing in 2 yrs of ownership. Knock, knock on wood. Fidelity is making money on me for now. Oh well. And yes, I think we all know now why Go-mofos have the reputation they have. So lets get this one sorted before your wife shoots you and move forward. (I would already be dead and boxed up)

BND rocks. enough said

===========================================

The Gomofos really got me good. Oh...and Dave...thanks again for pressing the warranty issue...I'm curious if I'll break even on the 4k I forked out for the warranty within the first two months http://www.rs6.com/../smilies/applause.gif

On the plus side I got the BND oil, power steering fluid/catalyst, and ACESIV running as of last Wednesday! With in 24 hrs my power steering pump whine when turning the wheels in place dropped in half and is quieter ever day so far. It was pretty loud before the service and now barely a hum.

[ben916]

One of those days where you just wish you could go back to bed and have a "do over"

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/mikk23/IMAG0049.jpg

So...my mother in law is in town visiting...flew in last night. And today we decided to head into town to do some shopping...what better idea than give her a ride in my new sweet car? Its about a thirty minute drive...and about twenty minutes in...the RS6 just straight up dies...and I coast to a stop on the side of the road. Three generations staring at me...mother in law, wife, and daughter. So I am at a bit of a loss...I shut the key off...and then turn it back on. No check engine lights...everything looks fine. I give the key a turn and it starts right up...at this point I'm closer to my destination than home...so I continue to the local shopping center. We found a central parking spot an walked between a few stores. And wouldn't you know that when we were done shopping...it wouldn't start...not even sputter...turns over like a champ though lol. So then I notice that the check engine light is off...which is backwards...before you start the car its always on until a second after it fires up...then it shuts off. Then the big one hit me...all the gears are highlighted at the same time. Which I remember reading in the owners manual (yes...I'm one of those guys that reads them) signifies a transmission failure of some sort. Oh boy...its Sunday night on a holiday weekend...took two hours to get a tow truck out there and it wont get looked at until Tuesday.

The Gomofos really got me good. Oh...and Dave...thanks again for pressing the warranty issue...I'm curious if I'll break even on the 4k I forked out for the warranty within the first two months :applause:

On the plus side I got the BND oil, power steering fluid/catalyst, and ACESIV running as of last Wednesday! With in 24 hrs my power steering pump whine when turning the wheels in place dropped in half and is quieter ever day so far. It was pretty loud before the service and now barely a hum.

So anyone care to make a few stabs at what this catastrophic failure might be? Heres a pic I snapped of the cluster when it wouldn't start...you can see all the gears highlighted at once.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/mikk23/IMAG0044.jpg

You need to cross post this in Audizine, Quattroworld, Euro Addiction, etc...
Get peeps to understand that NOGOMOFO is a $hitty dealer that does nothing to help people but take their cash and say "see ya sucker!"
Then a call to AoA...

[DHall1]

Ben,

I cant say the car on the hook is Gomofos problem yet. All the other issues that mikk23 has had have been directly gomofos problems.

AoA could care less.

The other forums? Hard to say if it would make any difference. For the most part Gomofos just buy auction cars and stick em on the lot. If you dont do your homework and inspect with a fine tooth comb. You get whats coming to ya. Same with any other dealer out there.

[Boost]

"Audi, you lose RS owners on a monthly basis every year. When are you going to put a stop to it. "

How true Dave. I would have bought a C6 RS6 in a heartbeat. Instead I got a Panamera Turbo. It is a phenomenal car and I love it, but it is not as visceral as my RS6 which I miss. Audi is truly missing the boat here

[DHall1]

I calls em like I sees em. I try to stop into the local Audi dealer and look at the lineup but the Q5 and A4 avant just dont cut it. I mean really, we want a performance avant and my wife would love to drive a C6 RS6 avant. She would have purchased a new C5 RS6 avant if given the chance. (she drives a w211 E55)

I give up. We have to import something or dare I say it....buy a Cayenne Turbo. We would settle for the new S4 avant but I cant even get the nod from AoA on that car. Like I said, I give up.




"Audi, you lose RS owners on a monthly basis every year. When are you going to put a stop to it. "

How true Dave. I would have bought a C6 RS6 in a heartbeat. Instead I got a Panamera Turbo. It is a phenomenal car and I love it, but it is not as visceral as my RS6 which I miss. Audi is truly missing the boat here

[TozoM8]

It is not the transmission. It could be some kind of electrical issue. Power or ground loss, ignition switch, crank sensor, MAF.............

[Mikk23]

The crank sensor has come to my mind as well...its just odd that all the gears are lit up on the display. I'll find out more tomorrow. I've actually sorted out the SAI and boost issues thanks to JRS-RS6 emailing me a wiring diagram (thanks very much). Basically when the intake manifold was pulled by autowerks in feb. some cables were crossed. The SAI and N249 cables both come out of the harness on the passenger side just forward of the SAI valve...but there is an extension that hooks into it and dives under the intake manifold and pops up on the drivers side at the N249. I would have never known it was there but after seeing an extension in the diagram I started hunting looking for the correct colored wires. I had to remove the airbox and be looking straight down on it with a flashlight to see it. I was able to fish it out with a pair of needle nose and make the swap. So that mess was ironed out after many hours trouble shooting. Of course it ended up being simple...but it was like 'where's waldo' when all you can see is the top of his silly red hat (anyone remember those books?).

I still haven't received the paper work to even register the car from go motors...despite all the messages I have left. How long has it been? WTF...honestly I just want the paperwork so I can be done with gomotors and deal with zurich. And as far as my wife goes...I noticed a 6'1" crate in the garage...looked kinda suspicious...even has my name on it

[JRS-RS6]

RIP

Nice work on the N249 N112 Saga -- I know I learned a lot.

[Mikk23]

So I'm here at the shop with the rs...and they are thinking the ecm itself went tits up...is that unheard of? They have three different scanners and not one of them will communicate...and they said since the check engine light isn't on...that shows that its not even running its self diagnosis. Anyone have experience with this sort of issue?

[Mikk23]

Oh...another odd symptom is when u cycle the key on it runs up all the fans to max rpm even though the car is dead cold

[DHall1]

Chalk another one up to gomofos and the "experts" at Autowerks. Some experts they are.

Running the two solenoids backwards burned up the ecu. Lay odds.

She is tits


So I'm here at the shop with the rs...and they are thinking the ecm itself went tits up...is that unheard of? They have three different scanners and not one of them will communicate...and they said since the check engine light isn't on...that shows that its not even running its self diagnosis. Anyone have experience with this sort of issue?

[TozoM8]

It will be a fuse or broken ground. The ECU was working after wiring problems. Check the ground cable by the starter.

[Mikk23]

It seems to be intermittent...could I trouble someone to email me a wiring diagram or posting one on here for the ecm and ignition? The j271 tested okay...so its time to chase some wires....colors and a diagram would help immensely. PM me for my email...thanks!

[TozoM8]

They both could cause the problem you have.

[Mikk23]

So I was able to check both the load reduction relay and the ignition (PIA...see pic) yesterday...both checked okay. What I did figure out by going back and forth between the wifes A6 and the RS6 is that fuse 32 (one of three ECM fuses) should get 12v when you turn the ignition on...and for some reason this isn't happening. I'm about to dive into the wiring diagrams that JRS-RS6 sent me last night to see if I can find some clues. About one out of 50 times I cycle the ignition it will work...ie fuse 32 gets voltage...the ecm comes to life and I can start the car for about 10 seconds before it dies and I'm back to where I started. Whatever powers fuse 32 (solid green and a blue/black wire) I think is the key. I can duplicate the problem exactly by pulling the same 20A fuse on my wifes car...no check engine light...all the gears selected at once and it wont start. Soooo...I haven't ruled out the ECM itself being fried...but it seems at this point like its just not getting any voltage to power on. But J271 is closing...I made sure. Where oh where do you go fuse 32?? :vhmmm:

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/mikk23/IMAG0051.jpg

[TozoM8]

Take the ignition switch off of the mechanical part. Put a flat head screwdriver in it, push the center pin in and try to start it. Make sure your key is close to the ign switch.

[SteveKen]

A few thoughts.

I immediately thought electrical as well. I'd first pull up the carpet and see if there was any evidence of water in and around the TCU housing. (under the pass side front carpet)

Water under the carpet due to clogged plenum drains can cause major problems with the body harnesses, however, the trans wiring is pretty robust under there without any junction/crimp points.

How about the shift selector? If you can re-create the no-start condition, maybe try wiggling the selector or try starting it in neutral.

Lastly, but probably not likely, maybe try a different key if you've got a 2nd or 3rd one. The car just stopping like that also hints of Immobilizer issues?

[Mikk23]

I tried that...even took a multimeter to it. No luck...the ecm isn't receiving what it needs from fuse 32 when the key is cycled on. If I'm looking at this diagram right...fuse 32 goes from the ECM to the fuel pump relay. If someone could take a gander just to make sure I'm not out of my mind. Could a bad fuel pump relay cause this mess?

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/mikk23/fuse32.jpg

[Mikk23]

Well...I can pull up the carpet...I've been wanting to send the TCM off for the MTM upgrade anyway. But I park it in the garage so I dont think water got in there. I'll try starting it in neutral today just to be sure but I think its this fuse 32. I can duplicated the exact same symptoms in my wife's A6 by pulling fuse 32 (one of the ecm fuses) in her car...and after taking a voltmeter to it...her car gets battery voltage at 32 when you cycle the key on...mine gets zilch except when it the pixie dust kicks in and it works once out of every fifty tries and will run for ten seconds and then die and show the same symptoms on the cluster (no CEL all the gears selected). On those rare occasions fuse 32 shows battery voltage...there has got to be something to this that points to my culprit.




A few thoughts.

I immediately thought electrical as well. I'd first pull up the carpet and see if there was any evidence of water in and around the TCU housing. (under the pass side front carpet)

Water under the carpet due to clogged plenum drains can cause major problems with the body harnesses, however, the trans wiring is pretty robust under there without any junction/crimp points.

How about the shift selector? If you can re-create the no-start condition, maybe try wiggling the selector or try starting it in neutral.

Lastly, but probably not likely, maybe try a different key if you've got a 2nd or 3rd one. The car just stopping like that also hints of Immobilizer issues?

[Mikk23]

So after staring at the wiring diagram for a while...it looks like either the fuel pump relay is bad...it isn't getting power...or the ecu isn't telling the relay to close. That or a break/short in a wire that could result in any of those. By the looks of it...those are the only possiblilties that would keep fuse 32 from getting power...and I think that it actually powers the injectors and the coolant circulation vavle. So my guess is that since the ECM is also directly connected to the injectors it is sensing that they aren't getting any power...nor am I getting any gas. It might also sense that the fuel pump relay isn't closing as well. Hard to say but its time to drive to the shop and test my theory. My confidence is running low lol.

[JRS-RS6]

My money is on the Fuel Pump Relay -- glad the drawings are helping. The other thing is D22 -- maybe something up on the engine was disturbed when you fixed the mix up for N112 N249. Good luck.

[hahnmgh63]

I haven't looked at the newer Motronic wiring diagrams lately but in the older Motronic designs the fuel pump relay doubled as the ECU relay. Does it look like this may still be true? In the early Motronic Porsche's and Audi's you always carried a spare relay in the glove box just in case.

[JRS-RS6]

From the drawing on page 10 of 20 -- J271 is the ECM Power Supply Relay it is not powered by the Fuel Pump Relay which is actually activated by the ECM J220-65. With that in mind check the following: J271 and if not activating check D50, T10p, T17p, and E32 if it is activating than back to J17 Fuel Pump Relay. Also on Fuse 32 (S232) if there no 12 Volts than Fuse 28 (S228) and S81 should not have power either all of which points back to the contacts in J17 -- since there are two in parallel it is hard to believe they both have failed but if one failed it may have pitted the other from to much current. Can you visually inspect these relay contacts?

[Mikk23]

So...I'm at the shop...typing away on my phone right now but I pulled the fuel pump relay which is indeed separate on the rs6 and put it in the A6 and it started fine...so I put it back in the rs6 and its has now been purring at idle for thirty minutes like nothing happened. What the hell...I guess I need to put the steering wheel back on and go drive the crap out of it and see what happens. I'll stay close to the shop of course...lol

[LIRS6]

So...I'm at the shop...typing away on my phone right now but I pulled the fuel pump relay which is indeed separate on the rs6 and put it in the A6 and it started fine...so I put it back in the rs6 and its has now been purring at idle for thirty minutes like nothing happened. What the hell...I guess I need to put the steering wheel back on and go drive the crap out of it and see what happens. I'll stay close to the shop of course...lol

Your problem solved - swap fuel pump relays with your wife's A6 and run for your life!

[Mikk23]

Lol...well my relay works in her car too otherwise it is be home in the rs6 while her car sat at the shop waiting for an ordered relay :)

I'm starting to wonder about water in the passenger foot well as mentioned earlier. I started thinking about it and while I do park in the garage...I did drive though a nasty rainstorm on my way to take the family shopping on Sunday. Worth a look at this point since I can't duplicate the problem.

[JRS-RS6]

Your problem solved - swap fuel pump relays with your wife's A6 and run for your life!

You got it!

Seriously clean out the plenum drains too. I bet you've got dirty contacts maybe some CRC electrical spray on the contacts would not hurt. Glad to hear you have a smoking gun so to speak -- at least you know it is the Relay or the block it plugs into if you did nothing else.


My money is on the Fuel Pump Relay......

[Mikk23]

So...my theory proved to be just that. I had the car running for 40 minutes at idle while I checked everything I could think of trying to duplicate the problem this morning. Finally I gave up and after starting and shutting the car off several times...decided to take it for a spin and just stay close to the shop. Well...after getting all the tools out of the car I sat down to take a trip around the block...and it wouldn't start. Of course. Something is keeping the ECM from powering up, and at the same time making both engine fans kick on at max rpm. So I give up...tomorrow the 'real life' mechanic is going to tackle it. I handed him the printed out wiring diagrams and headed home. Its got to be a ground or something simple. I'll post when I know more.

[ben916]

... making both engine fans kick on at max rpm...

Wouldn't that be a safety thing whereas the ECU/ECM is protecting an "overheated" motor or it thinks the motor is overheated?

[skribe]

Good luck, man. Thanks for all your posts. I know I've learned a thing or two following along. Sounds like an electrical gremlin... sounds like gomofo motors fiddled around with the car for a while, couldn't sort it, cleared codes, and unloaded it. But it also sounds like you'll actually debug this beast. It's worth it. As you know, when it's running correctly, it's one of the greatest cars ever made.

[SteveKen]

I've heard that the ECT (engine coolant temp) senor(s) can cause all kinds of goofy things as well. My S6 has two of them, so I'll say that the RS does as well. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have them replaced as they're still sub three figures.

Also, you refer to the water ingress like you have a new car. It may be new to you, but there can be a cumulative affect of this happening since 2002-3. From my experience, the long term affect is that anywhere there is a splice in the body harness (basically a wire nut that groups power for lights, etc) these corrode over time and just separate. There are about four on the drivers side foot/seat area and I don't think that there are any in the pass area. And of course with major water ingress, it can get into the boxes that house the CLU (central locking unit) under the driver's feet or the TCU under the passenger's feet.

As for the plenum drains, I just removed mine to reduce the potential of them clogging.

A guy on the other forum went through a car wash and his plenum area flooded so bad that the brake vacuum system managed to suck water into the engine and hydrolocked it. The dealer gave him a $16k estimate for engine replacement on his S6.

[JRS-RS6]

A guy on the other forum went through a car wash and his plenum area flooded so bad that the brake vacuum system managed to suck water into the engine and hydrolocked it. The dealer gave him a $16k estimate for engine replacement on his S6.

Sounds like this guy should hurry up and file against the Water Ingress Lawsuit before it is too late!

[Mikk23]

Yeah...16k...good grief. No word on my car yet but they are troubleshooting as we speak.

[SteveKen]

Just corresponded with the fellow. Lucky for him, his insurance company covered it. Unlucky for the car, it was totalled and will hit the open market with a major flaw on it's title, when all it needs is an engine swap and new vac lines, etc.

[DHall1]

Can you send me some info? I would be interested in the S6 with the blown motor.


Just corresponded with the fellow. Lucky for him, his insurance company covered it. Unlucky for the car, it was totalled and will hit the open market with a major flaw on it's title, when all it needs is an engine swap and new vac lines, etc.

[Mikk23]

So the tech who works on both my audi's (who is also a friend of mine) gave me a call today and said...you need to see this one. I was close to the shop anyway so I stopped on by. He says that he has spent the past 5 hours going through this car...wiring...relays...everything he could think of...and it came down to this:

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The audio is kind of crappy and it was noisy in the shop but if you can't tell...the car dies when he puts a finger on the eprom. He doesn't have to tap it or press down at all...just the weight of his finger makes it die. Then he can lightly tap it a few times and cycle the key on and it will start.

So it was closing time when I showed up...but tomorrow he's going to sit down with a magnifying glass and some bright lighting and see if he can determine if its the eprom itself...a bad pin...or bad solder on the board. The only bummer is if I end up needing a new computer...I'll have to have the car towed to the nearest stealership (3hrs) to have it programed. And I'll lose the EPL tune which sucks, but it may be crap anyway according to Dave throwing up a red flag on the dyno sheet. But I'd say its better than no tune at all...maybe the EPL tune is what did it...I'm not sure on the procedure for a flash when you send a computer in. Worst case I get a fresh ECM and send it off for a Revo flash...seems popular for the money. Time will tell...but I'm hoping this one can be salvaged.

[DHall1]

From way back.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

ECU it is.

This may also land back in Gomofos lap because I still feel the wiring glitch led to the ECU failure. Autosportwerks or whatever they call themselves. Funny how they sponsor the Quattro forum and come across as the "Audi" experts.

Ha




Chalk another one up to gomofos and the "experts" at Autowerks. Some experts they are.

Running the two solenoids backwards burned up the ecu. Lay odds.

She is tits

[hahnmgh63]

Could your mechanic tell if the ECU case had been opened before? Mine still has the original Bosch seal tape on it although I've seen handy guys that can scrape 1/2 the seal with a razor, split the case, and then reseal it? Does the APR tune use a chip or a flash? I think MTM uses a ECU chip like the TCU chip. Mayby your car was chipped before?

[V8weight]

Could your mechanic tell if the ECU case had been opened before? Mine still has the original Bosch seal tape on it although I've seen handy guys that can scrape 1/2 the seal with a razor, split the case, and then reseal it? Does the APR tune use a chip or a flash? I think MTM uses a ECU chip like the TCU chip. Mayby your car was chipped before?
What tape are you speaking of? The ecu case is sealed together with Butyl. Just lightly heat around the seams and separate.

[hahnmgh63]

Mine had a round Bosch tamper seal sticker (void if removed or broken) on the side of the ECU where the two halves split.

[V8weight]

So it was closing time when I showed up...but tomorrow he's going to sit down with a magnifying glass and some bright lighting and see if he can determine if its the eprom itself...a bad pin...or bad solder on the board. The only bummer is if I end up needing a new computer...I'll have to have the car towed to the nearest stealership (3hrs) to have it programed. And I'll lose the EPL tune which sucks, but it may be crap anyway according to Dave throwing up a red flag on the dyno sheet. But I'd say its better than no tune at all...maybe the EPL tune is what did it...I'm not sure on the procedure for a flash when you send a computer in. Worst case I get a fresh ECM and send it off for a Revo flash...seems popular for the money. Time will tell...but I'm hoping this one can be salvaged.
Hmm, that would be awesome if it were just a cold solder joint. You're definitely long overdue for a free pass. I'd probably just remove the e-prom, de-solder, and then re-solder right off the bat and then retest.

[V8weight]

Mine had a round Bosch tamper seal sticker (void if removed or broken) on the side of the ECU where the two halves split.
I guess I've never seen that before. Was your ecu original to the car? Sounds like something that would come on a replacement?

[SteveKen]

Glad to hear of the progress. If you get stuck and need an ECU, I have a spare one for sale. PM me if you're in need. Hopefully the place you bought it from will cover your parts and hopefully the labor.

[DHall1]

Still needs the vin coded and all the keys. There was a rumor that the Vag could recode the ecu. Anyone?

He has a ext warranty so its just the problem of towing the car to the dealer for the vin recode on the new ecu.

Pat makes a good point about the prom.

Good luck


Glad to hear of the progress. If you get stuck and need an ECU, I have a spare one for sale. PM me if you're in need. Hopefully the place you bought it from will cover your parts and hopefully the labor.

[SteveKen]

I always thought you can just pay the dealer to recode the immo on the ECU to the existing cluster, keys, etc.

I think you can do it with VAG-COM only if you have the original PIN or SKC number(s), but the dealer doesn't have access to those anymore.

Original owners might have been given this information when taking delivery of the car.

More enterprising individuals can also copy and bench flash the serial eprom, too I think.

[Mikk23]

Copy and Bench flash? Is this possible? Anyone know how? I'm heading in this morning to see how it going. Hopefully a little solder and I'll be good...but nothing is ever that easy. EPL says that they flash their eproms...but there was no "warranty void if broken" tape or tamper resistant screws. Just a lot of gooey gray stuff. If I end up needing an eprom it would be nice if I could find a way to program it myself with the vag...if its feasible. Otherwise I'm looking at a 600 dollar tow up to Birmingham...that the warranty wouldn't cover. I'm pretty hands on and fearless when it comes to my cars...but you pick the battles you can win right? lol

[DHall1]

Well,

If your insurance wont cover the 600 dollar tow.

Then you could send the ecu to MTM and have them replace the prom with the MTM chip.

Only problem is not knowing for 100% sure there is not another issue with the ecu.

[SteveKen]

I'm by no means the expert on this but here's how I understand it. The ME7 ECU code (what all the tuners modify and flash) is located on the eprom on the top side of the ECU board. The serial eprom contains information with regards to the soft coding and immobilizer and it is located on the under side of the ECU board. You can flash the ECU code all you want and immobilizer will be happy because the serial eprom hasn't been changed.

If you have an immobiizer car and want a bunch of spare ECUs, you just copy your original serial eprom (I've seen special clips that a re fabricated to read them with out removing them) and just write it to all your spare ECUs.

At least this is how I perceive everything . . .

[hahnmgh63]

DHall1's idea is excellent. I think if you call Hoppen and see if they can do it they can probably bench test the ECU. I don't think he just solders on TCU & ECU chips without having someway of Bench testing the ECU?

[SteveKen]

Dave is right. The second thing that I thought was that your mechanic was grounding out something and a cold solder, etc. might not be the issue.

BTW, the S6 and the RS6 ECU is ME7.1.1 which does not have the same pinouts as the ME7.1 ECU that the 2.7T has. Found that out the hard way when trying to reflash my S6's ECU to the 6 speed code.