RS5 and M3 competition.

[Bobbersmill]

Like most on here I have been following all the videos and reviews of the RS5 as I keep considering buying something that we can use a little more than our C4s.
I thought I would revisit the M3 and not being a fan of the Edition colours I had discounted the standard car due to the way it looks (Do not want to mod) when I came across the Competition option on the UK configerator, basically it includes the EDC, CSL type alloys and lowered by 10mm. It also includes a revised edc program that spices up certain things.
It sounds like a really good option and could just keep the M3 ahead of the RS5 in driver involvement. They are reviewing it in Junes Evo so it could be an alternative to the RS5.
Anyone know any more?

[Erik]

Before you make your choice, remember the winter you have behind you. Cheers :D

[Bobbersmill]

Im in the UK so our winters, apart from the one just past are pretty lame compared to what you guys get. I would also, as I did with our X5, buy a spare set of rims with winters on.

[roadrunner]

...I would also, as I did with our X5, buy a spare set of rims with winters on.

The RS5 will still draw circles around a M3 with winter tires in snowy, or even wet conditions ;)

[Qisha]

or even wet conditions ;)

...or moreso dry conditions. :jlol:

[KresoF1]

...or moreso dry conditions. :jlol:

roadrunner wrote>The RS5 will still draw circles around a M3 with winter tires in snowy, or even wet conditions.

Hmmm... I bet for any amount of money that RS5 wont draw circles around M3 on dry conditions.

...and I am big fan of new RS5 and do not consider to buy M3.

[QuattroFun]

I very much doubt that anyone of us can answer this with any real insight at this stage - my thing with the RS5 is on and off/from real interest to lukewarm feelings even before I have driven it. However, if you come from a 911 - i.e. a real sports car, it might be of some use while you wait for real world input on the topic that Audi's own material says that the focal age group for the RS5 is 45-55 years of age and that the M3 has among other things "impressive handling characteristics" and "comfortable damper tuning" and "precise steering". I suppose these should be viewed in relation to the RS5 and what the engineers/marketers have aimed for. A doubt it will be a roomier 911.

[Qisha]

"Only who thinks sincerely negatively, can be surprised positively." *Albert Einstein

[Bobbersmill]

The RS5 will still draw circles around a M3 with winter tires in snowy, or even wet conditions ;)
I would hope so with 4wd!
It certainly wont be a major selling point for me as in the UK snow is not a long term major problem.

[Bobbersmill]

The massive selling point about the RS5 will be how it copes on everyday roads. I cant imagine many people taking their RS5 to a track on a regular basis so for me the important thing will be the cars front end feel, grip and most importantly how it deals with our uk roads and how the Stronic box feels.

[Erik]

...or moreso dry conditions. :jlol:

I sure hope so, but have you read the review in the latest EVO (paper)?

[Fab]

Anyone could scan the EVO review ?

[Qisha]

I sure hope so, but have you read the review in the latest EVO (paper)?

Dear Erik,

i read through it- yes.

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/251284/bmw_m3_competition_review.html

I am confident that the RS 5 will be a good match...

Qisha

[Bobbersmill]

As I said previously its going to be all about how these two cars tackle everyday roads, I cant imagine people buying because one is better on a track although that may be just me. I know in my C4s that I have a GT car thats superb (except for space) and I know that I have a really fast cross country sporty car. With my previous RS4 it didnt really do cruser too well and as brilliant as the shocks were in absorbing (SS+) it was a tad too hard.
With DCT, Stronic, EDC and drive select you really can have your cake and eat it, its just which one has more jam and cream on.

[Aronis]

I was just reviewing M3 convertible vs S5 convertible.

BMW says 0-60 5.1 sec, Audi says 0-60 5.2 sec....

S5 has AWD

The RS5 must then CRUSH the M3???

Mike

[GT3ZZZ]

M3 Convertible is a pig with its steel roof...

[Bobbersmill]

As said above the m3 cab has a complex steel folding roof and I assume some extra structual rigidity to stop flex when the roof is down where as the coupe has a carbon fibre roof panel.
0-60 is not the holy grail either so dont get too hung up on the figures.

[Aronis]

Yes I know but the other part of my comment I left off...too tired when I posted...

The fully loaded M3 Cab was $86,000, while the S5 Cab loaded was about $65,000. For that difference you can upgrade the S5 engine significantly and have money left for a vacation trip.

[Bobbersmill]

Yes I know but the other part of my comment I left off...too tired when I posted...

The fully loaded M3 Cab was $86,000, while the S5 Cab loaded was about $65,000. For that difference you can upgrade the S5 engine significantly and have money left for a vacation trip.

Absolutley agree. 20k is a massive difference but I was really looking at the M3 competition which only comes as a coupe (in UK).
Im not a fan of the way the S5 sits, too high and too thin. Now an RS5 cab would look superb. I also prefer fabric roofs to these tin folding ones.

[QuattroFun]

Gents, finally had the pleasure to drive the new RS5 for an hour - small twisty roads, fast roads with bad pavement and motorway. Bottom-line: the car is good, in fact very good. The demo car was fully loaded including sports diff, dynamic steering, sports exhaust, bucket seats, ceramics and 20" wheels.

I) Interior: very nice and miles ahead of my old RS4 and current M3 Coupe. Buckets, leather package for doors and carbon look and feel very nice. The satnav is graphically way better than in the M3, but surprisingly the functionality is worse with unclear road instructions. Valcona leather is just as nice as I remembered and ahead of M3's Novillo. B&O is nice, but nowhere near as good (or expensive) than in an A8. Looks cool and worth the money though. The rear is more cramped than in an M3 oddly enough. The buckets are more comfortable than I remembered from the RS4 and are an a absolute must have option. RS5 vs M3: 1-0.

2) Exterior: looks classy and subtle as always but yet more bulky than the S5 that was parked close by. However, it lacks some of the drama in RS4 and even latest RS6 despite the front dam - again, maybe due to the wheel arches. The titanium 20" wheels are not as nice as the RS4's 19". Personally, I think the M3 tops it as it looks slimmer and more muscular. RS5 vs. M3: 1-1.

3) Engine, gearbox and sound: engine sound in dynamic kills the M3 hands down. The engine revs well and does not appear to vibrate too much. The S-tronic is, however, set up wrongly. In auto comfort it puts you in 7th already in 60kmh with instant kickdown to 4th or 5th and in auto dynamic it keeps you in 3rd with too high revs. The shifts are very fast, but the paddles do not feel as good to use as in the M3. Overall, a draw with slight edge to RS5. RS5 vs. M3: 1-1.

4) Ride and handling: overall the best RS Audi ever. The standard SS ride is marginally worse than in the M3 despite front ceramics (also without EDC but with 19"). The 19" wheels are probably better in this respect. The car is more neutral and feels more agile than any RS Audi I have driven before (by definition, of course excluding the R8). Feels marginally better than a TTRS, better than the RS4 and no comparison with RS6. The direction changes are very close to the M3 and traction is naturally better. It feels both safe and exciting at the same time - it was not able to get it to plow to any significant extent in dynamic. The initial corner turn in is good, but when you really push it it does not come alive quite like the M3. The steering is better than the mags claim and at least on par with M3 if not better. The dynamic steering takes some time to get it to feel intuitive, but it is very effective. The ceramics are a bit grabby at low speeds, but feel really great overall: must have option I reckon. Overall, again a draw with a slight edge for the RS5. RS5 vs. M3: 1-1.

5) Overall feel good factor: the RS5 wins. Period. It feels and looks fresher, the bucket interior and engine sound in dynamic really make you smile. RS5 vs. M3: 2-1.

So will I switch to the RS5? Depends on the money - all I know is that the RS5 is annoyingly expensive and I can assure you that you MUST order it fully optioned to get the best of it. If I do order it, I know I will blow the spec sheet.

[Lmg]

Thanks for the feedback, Quattrofun!

That was interesting to read.

[artur777]

Latest acc tests show that m3 and rs5 are very close
its the main problem

[QuattroFun]

Latest acc tests show that m3 and rs5 are very close
its the main problem

Very true, but this cannot seriously be a surprise to anybody - factory claims 0-200 are M3 DKG 14.9s and RS5 15.5s. The TTRS with S-tronic will probably be faster as well. So what?

No, the main problem with the RS5 is: PRICE

[Fab]

Nice report and probably nice ride... thanks QF. You did not extend yourself very much on the engine and perfs impression (speed feel when driving). Wha are the "sensation" when accelerating ? What about your view on the elasticity ?

Please let us know more on that subject.

Thanks in advance

Fab

[QuattroFun]

Nice report and probably nice ride... thanks QF. You did not extend yourself very much on the engine and perfs impression (speed feel when driving). Wha are the "sensation" when accelerating ? What about your view on the elasticity ?

Please let us know more on that subject.

Thanks in advance

Fab

Hi there Fab,

Hmm, re performance, engine characteristics and elasticity - there is both good and bad news. Still, I drove the car for only one hour so all impressions may not bear out fully when you live with the car.

1) Vs. M3 DKG, RS5 engine seems to pull slightly better at low revs if you are in manual mode, which usually means gears 2-5 although I would agree that the gearing is too economy minded. Tests say that 7th gear elasticity is poor, but I did not even try this outside the motorway because it is irrelevant in the real world if you use the manual mode. But truth told, 7th does not feel brisk on the motorway. In D mode, things are more complicated and in fact more cheerful: I would say that the RS5 kickdown is generally even more fierce than in the M3, which also kicks down pretty briskly. This is of course good for real world progress, which feels broadly on par with the M3 which means pretty fast. But I cannot honestly say that the RS5 feels any faster than the M3 - perhaps on the contrary since RS5 is mega stable and heavier. As Arthur pointed out, test numbers are very close. Bottom-line: neither the RS5 nor M3 is a C63.

2) The top-end of the RS5 feels slightly more flat/linear than in the M3. This is perhaps not so positive and is maybe also why the RS5 does not feel faster than the M3 even once you get some revs in the machine.

3) Vs. our old RS4 manual - well, the RS5 actually feels slower if you are in manual mode in the higher gears to the extent that my memory serves me correct. We had tightly packed six gears in the RS4 whereas the RS5's gearing as Qisha said is rather tall. However, S Tronic changes everything and if you are in D dynamic, the RS5 is faster with kickdown in any reasonable circumstances than any of us would drive a manual RS4.

Overall, I do not think the RS5 will disappoint in this respect either but the fact is that we have to learn to drive it in a different manner than the RS4 (if in manual mode, 1-2 gears lower like for like) and naturally none of us should expect a C63. I did not originally write about this topic as I am now used to the M3's features, which means pretty poor elasticity and focus on revs/kickdown.

[Fab]

Thanks a lot. Very objective report QF.

I will try to make a long test drive in a couple of weeks. I am very curious to get to know the S-tronic various set up. For me (and most of us) this manual mode is a big question mark and each of us must drive it to really see if it is proper to its own use.

[Ritchy]

Thanks QF for the feedback, very interesting.

Maybe an answer to that question: Are the gears finaly "locked" in manual mode. That means no automatic swithching when max rev is reached ?

Thanks again.

[QuattroFun]

Thanks QF for the feedback, very interesting.

Maybe an answer to that question: Are the gears finaly "locked" in manual mode. That means no automatic swithching when max rev is reached ?

Thanks again.

I was told by the sales guy who had also driven the car that this is the case, but during the test drive I myself always upshifted just before the limiter so I cannot verify this. Sorry.