Dealership price / cost for $75K maintenance?

[BLITZEN]

For those of you who have had the $75k mile scheduled maintenance done at an Audi dealership... What did it cost you? If you got a "special deal" please give details. I'm asking because I want to double check on the quote that my preferred local dealer gave me.

P.S. I was pretty sure that someone had asked this question before. But I couldn't find any specific threads after searching "maintenance", "75K", "75,000", "cost", "pay" and "price". Thanks!

[DHall1]

It was Mark that worked out the discounts in Chicago.

He took all the parts listed in the 75k sticky above and went over to genuinevwaudiparts.com and got the discount prices. Then he called his Audi dealer and asked them to match those prices. They did. Then he worked on the labor rate and ended up with 20% off the labor price.

In the end he was around 2300 give or take for the job.

The Audi parts discounted come to around 750 bucks give or take for the components.

If you want me to go over your quote send it over on PM. Pat and I just completed this job last month. 700 bucks for the whole deal.

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/RS6pics/Thermostatdiy.jpg

[DHall1]

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/20065-Audi-part-numbers-for-timing-belt-and-pulleys.-DIY-C5-RS6?highlight=sun+fun+runs+timing+belts+barrett+ja ckson

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/20066-Sun-fun-runs-Barrett-Jackson-and-timing-belts-in-AZ?highlight=sun+fun+runs+timing+belts+barrett+jac kson

[BLITZEN]

Dave,
I had read about what you did and appreciate you taking the time to reply. Unfortunately though, your situation doesn't really apply to what I need to know: What have other people paid dealerships to do the $75K service.

Thanks again for the info. - BLITZEN

[DHall1]

It was Mark that took our info and worked out a better deal with his Audi dealer. I think his info is in one of those threads.

I think he paid 2300 for the service. give or take.

Retail prices can run up to 3500 for a complete 75k service.

[mmaturo]

Yep Dave covered it exactly ...as Dave said i took the exact OEM parts list with prices from the website in his post and then asked if they would match...their parts guy did. So that added up to whatever the below does to be exact. I just did the timing belt and water pump though not the entire 75K service that includes filters and plugs, oil change etc too. So the standard labor rate i was quoted for the belt and water pump service (and assiociated rollers etc.) was $1450.00. I had a coupon they had emailed me for 15% off labor for timing belt changes...so that (parts/labor) ended up being $2050 plus sales tax. On dealer websites in your area you can always find 10 to 15% off labor so look for those...any dealer will honor another dealers coupons. Parts with prices cut out of an email to me:

Don matched your prices, roller 077109244c should be qty 2,
078109119j 50.04,
077121113d 31.14,
n90136802 1.98,
077109479d 122.40,
077109244e 70.20,
077109244c qty 2 87.84(175.68 for 2)
077109485f 147.60, 077121004px 122.40(not uncommon for bolt for waterpump to be frozen, not recommending unless needed, meaning can cause additional problems= charges)
077903137q 64.80,
077121113d 31.14

[DHall1]

077 121 004 P
Waterpump

$271 with discount. Prices are going up boys and girls. This water pump listed for 122 just a few short weeks ago. Now the list price is 377 dollars. It may be time to give Audi a call and complain about these price increases. 300% increase on a waterpump? Please

Nearly 400 dollars for a waterpump?

If you were holding your breath for inflation. You can start to breath now.

The WP is a must at 75k.

[BLITZEN]

It was Mark that took our info and worked out a better deal with his Audi dealer. I think he paid 2300 for the service. give or take. Retail prices can run up to 3500 for a complete 75k service.

This answers what I was asking. Thank you. Has anyone else taken their cars to dealerships for 75k maitenance?

[Brazil]

I'm about to do mine... have all the parts including all belts, pulleys, lever, tensioner, cam seals, water pump, coolant, spark plugs, air filters, cabin filter, fuel filter, valve cover gaskets... spent $550.

Water pump was $74.

Helps to know people...

[Brazil]

This answers what I was asking. Thank you. Has anyone else taken their cars to dealerships for 75k maitenance?
I think it's ridiculous to pay someone that much to do this job. $3500? NFW.

[Brazil]

$271 with discount. Prices are going up boys and girls. This water pump listed for 122 just a few short weeks ago. Now the list price is 377 dollars. It may be time to give Audi a call and complain about these price increases. 300% increase on a waterpump? Please
If you are looking at genuinevwaudiparts.com, they may have run out of a certain brand of pump and the new brand is more expensive. Since there are preferred brands, they may be using the better ones now. HEPU and GRAF are preferred over Meyle and others.

[DHall1]

Who do you know and when did they know it?

Are these parts from Audi?

How could genuinevwaudi.com make a different supplier choice? These are all Audi parts in Audi boxes.

I could see maybe the 122 dollar waterpump being a reman and the 377 dollar pump a new unit. But both will come in a Audi box and PN.




I'm about to do mine... have all the parts including all belts, pulleys, lever, tensioner, cam seals, water pump, coolant, spark plugs, air filters, cabin filter, fuel filter, valve cover gaskets... spent $550.

Water pump was $74.

Helps to know people...

[DHall1]

Agreed. I still have a head, two arms and two hands. I can do it just fine.

All you DIY'ers out there. Buyer beware. There is a specific process to tension and preload the two lower idler pulleys on the RS6. Just dont jump in there with the Bentley and think its gravy.

Just sayin

Oh and the other camp that thinks the dealer techs are "god". Well, pass me the crack pipe because your playin with fire. I know of a few blown 4.2tt's after a routine timing belt job.




I think it's ridiculous to pay someone that much to do this job. $3500? NFW.

[DHall1]

Oh, back to the topic.

Hey Max! If I can speak for you....I have an invoice for Mad Max here....$2,600 dollars for the service. With waterpump and a couple of other minor items. Max gets a good buddy discount at his Audi dealer.

Come over here buddy.

[V8weight]

Oh and the other camp that thinks the dealer techs are "god". Well, pass me the crack pipe because your playin with fire. I know of a few blown 4.2tt's after a routine timing belt job.
Hell, I know of a few blown 4.2tt's after a simple spark plug change.

[dahbo]

Ok this is all intersting. I just was quoted 4,500$ yes four thousond five hundred dollars!!! for what the dealer calls a " nose Job" ( 75k service ) i think they are smoking crack or sniffing someones crack! i am purchasing the parts and having a mech friend of mine do the service for me. anyone done the service in the DC metro area? if so where? and for how much.


Hanna

[DHall1]

4500 dollar nose job for a 40,000 dollar engine. Hope your buddy has good insurance.

ha

[Brazil]

All you DIY'ers out there. Buyer beware. There is a specific process to tension and preload the two lower idler pulleys on the RS6. Just dont jump in there with the Bentley and think its gravy.

yeah, I figured there are some tricks to do it right. the bentley manual is usually missing key stuff. where did you find the secrets? care to share or point me in the right direction?

the parts are mostly genuine audi parts, but they come in the supplier's boxes. bearings are INA and NTN, belts are continental, plugs are NGK, etc... I made a deal with the dealership where I bought the car to let me buy all the parts I need for the 75k service their cost from a shop distributor. after this, I know another guy who will get parts at cost+10% which will end up being a great deal still. if you have any friends at local shops, see if they can do something like that. otherwise the genvw site is probably the best.

[DHall1]

Elsawin and or Alldata have the procedure.

The key is to set the preload on the driver side concentric lower pulley first. Then move over to the lever pulley on the pass side.

Make sure you have the little special tool with the 2 nipples to fit into the concentric and an old fashioned lever arm in/lb torque wrench

[dahbo]

4500 dollar nose job for a 40,000 dollar engine. Hope your buddy has good insurance.

ha

Im sure he will be fine, he is a master Mercedes-benz, Porsche tech that works at a large local new car dealership. this is not brain surgery, look just because these cars are rare and expensive does not give the dealer the right to rape me on service cost. I dont drink the koolaid about service techs being infallible either, if the dealer screwed up your 40,000k motor do you think they would own up to it....i think not :lovl:

[DHall1]

Ok good. I was worried it was another Pat and Dave operation or something.

All in good fun. I would shoot the dealer rep that quoted me 4500. Idiots.

If your guy has any questions before the job...post em up here and we got ya covered.




Im sure he will be fine, he is a master Mercedes-benz, Porsche tech that works at a large local new car dealership. this is not brain surgery, look just because these cars are rare and expensive does not give the dealer the right to rape me on service cost. I dont drink the koolaid about service techs being infallible either, if the dealer screwed up your 40,000k motor do you think they would own up to it....i think not :lovl:

[terrytcl]

If you are looking at genuinevwaudiparts.com, they may have run out of a certain brand of pump and the new brand is more expensive. Since there are preferred brands, they may be using the better ones now. HEPU and GRAF are preferred over Meyle and others.


Dave, do you remember what the stamping of your water pump was from genuineaudiparts.com?

Also, do you remember V8weight's? the one he got from ECS tuning?

if Brazil is referring to HEPU or GRAF being preferred over Meyle, which I think most of these aftermarket TM kits come with, you can find GRAF water pumps for less than $100.

Brazil, where did you find out that HEPU and GRAF were preferred?

anyone have an OEM water pump removed from their RS6 still laying around? it would be interesting what our cars came with

[terrytcl]

it looks like ECStuning kit comes with GRAF.

so... it will be interesting where the OEM pump came from.

[DHall1]

That is a problem with ECS. What they print and what shows up at your door are two different things.

Pat can fill in the rest. I think it was a reman from Spain. We almost threw it in the trash.

Guys, my car had 32k when I did the belt last month. I did not change the water pump. Pat changed his at 75k and it needed to be done.


it looks like ECStuning kit comes with GRAF.

so... it will be interesting where the OEM pump came from.

[V8weight]

it looks like ECStuning kit comes with GRAF.

so... it will be interesting where the OEM pump came from.


That is a problem with ECS. What they print and what shows up at your door are two different things.

Pat can fill in the rest. I think it was a reman from Spain. We almost threw it in the trash.

Guys, my car had 32k when I did the belt last month. I did not change the water pump. Pat changed his at 75k and it needed to be done.
Ok, I'm embarrassed to talk about this because it not only means that I have to admit I made a mistake, but also means that I have to admit Dave was right. My kit from ECS came with a GRAF waterpump, manufactured in Italy. I don't see any reason why this would be the "preferred" brand as it wasn't even a close replica of the OEM pump that I removed. There were noticeable differences in the design of the impeller as well as the case. Are they improvements? I have no idea. It gave me a sick feeling to install it in my car, but what other options did I have? I was 1900 miles from home. So buy an Audi water pump for the piece of mind that I don't have. The rest of the parts in the ECS kit are indeed from the OEM manufactures, so no worries there.

[DHall1]

Italy Spain Greece...they are all bankrupt. If that was Graf then I think we all know better. That said, its still running 5k later.

You could have beat me over the head and pulled the water pump off my car.

doh

Almost forgot about the phantom thermostat that wasted half our day chasing down a factory part.

[V8weight]

Italy Spain Greece...they are all bankrupt. If that was Graf then I think we all know better. That said, its still running 5k later.

You could have beat me over the head and pulled the water pump off my car.

doh

Almost forgot about the phantom thermostat that wasted half our day chasing down a factory part.
Well, I had already stolen your thermostat, I didn't want to get greedy.

[DHall1]

Yeah, those oil jugs are still out back too. Walmart here I come

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/RS6pics/im_with_shit_head_tshirt-p235710280.jpg?t=1267938017

[terrytcl]

so, the question is still - who makes the OEM water pump?

thanks for your responses Dave and V8weight

If anyone has purchased an OEM (from Audi) water pump, please check what the stampings are on the pump. Same goes for if you've still got the OEM water pump removed from your RS6.

[Brazil]

so, the question is still - who makes the OEM water pump?


Ok, here's the story I have so far. The OEM pumps were most likely made by GRAF. They made the OEM pump for many different Audis in that timeframe. They can either have a plastic impeller or a metal one. The metal is preferred.

Plastic impellers can fail in a catastropic manner leaving the car unable to be driven and risking damage due to overheating. They can become loose on the shaft and stop spinning or break apart into many pieces. Both are shutdown immediately conditions.

Metal impellers almost always fail in the form of a leak through the bearing. This condition will not leave you stranded. The pump still needs to be replaced, but it can be driven while watching the coolant level. The leak is usually slow.

HEPU pumps are made in Germany. They are the most preferred pump by the shops I know in the area. The reason they are preferred is their high reliability. Many of the shops have never seen a HEPU pump leak. The problem is that it seems HEPU does not have a "P" version of the pump. They only have an "M" version which was superceeded by the "P" version. They are supposed to be interchangable, but I'd prefer to have the latest version.

GRAF is also a German company, but they have manufacturing sites elsewhere. They are still very high quality, rarely fail, and manufacture a "P" version.

PX at the end of the part number just means remanufactured. P is a new pump. If you know how the water pumps are assembled, or have rebuilt them yourself, you know there is no need to have a "new" pump. The impeller and housing are the only parts carried over in a rebuild and they very rarely have ANY wear. The bearing is completely new and assembled in the same manner as the original.

Meyle is not recommended. There have been quite a few stories about Meyle pumps failing after a short amount of time.

So, the best you can probably do is order the PX version of a Graf pump, metal impeller, and be done with it. $121 (or low $70's if you know someone at a shop)

[DHall1]

Brazil,

Thanks for that info. Now my post makes more sense.

What I listed below is a new pump. Add "x" to the pn and plug into genuinevwaudiparts.com and you come up with 122 dollars for the reman.

The earth is back on its axis.


077 121 004 P
Waterpump

$271 with discount. Prices are going up boys and girls. This water pump listed for 122 just a few short weeks ago. Now the list price is 377 dollars. It may be time to give Audi a call and complain about these price increases. 300% increase on a waterpump? Please

Nearly 400 dollars for a waterpump?

If you were holding your breath for inflation. You can start to breath now.

The WP is a must at 75k.

[terrytcl]

works with me


did anyone change their camshaft seals when doing the timing belt change?
or the crank seal?

i noticed that these were included in most of the aftermarket timing belt kits on the market.

also, any feedback on reusing the allen bolts for the crankshaft pulley? were they fine? recommend replacement when doing the timing belt change?

[terrytcl]

another question -

here's what's been posted on here

Tooth Belt: 078109119J

here's what i've found in my parts manuals

Tooth belt: 078109119H

what's the difference?

[DHall1]

I did not change the seals.

I did order new allen bolts for the crankshaft pulley.




works with me


did anyone change their camshaft seals when doing the timing belt change?
or the crank seal?

i noticed that these were included in most of the aftermarket timing belt kits on the market.

also, any feedback on reusing the allen bolts for the crankshaft pulley? were they fine? recommend replacement when doing the timing belt change?

[terrytcl]

i found the part numbers for the crank bolts... i think 6 total

and the part numbers for the camshaft seals

not so lucky for the crankshaft seal. i'm not even sure i saw it covered specifically in the manuals.

[Brazil]

i found the part numbers for the crank bolts... i think 6 total

and the part numbers for the camshaft seals

not so lucky for the crankshaft seal. i'm not even sure i saw it covered specifically in the manuals.

The crank seal part number is: 077 115 147A You'll also need to replace the crankshaft sprocket's bolt if you remove it.

I have the camshaft and crankshaft seals and will replace them when I do the service. I figure, it's just one more thing that's insurance while you're in there. They aren't too hard to replace, especially since you have to pull the camshaft pulleys off the camshafts. I have the seal puller tool ($10 from any tool store) all you need is the right sized installer and some good sealant.

I have the procedure for the crankshaft seal if you want it.

As far as the toothed belt goes, the J is the one you want. Typically Audi uses the letters for revisions and J would be the latest revision superceeding H. Where did you find H? Etka shows J.

As for the bolts of the drive plate/pulley, ELSA says to replace them with new after removal.

[Christian-]

FYI: the crank is 10 bolts, not 6.

[terrytcl]

i see another seal behind the camshaft seals. is that relaceable without having to remove the valve cover?

do you have a part number for the bolt? i think it's 078105229D, but not sure how many we need.

also, just to confirm, is N 10238802 the bolts for the crank pulley?

i found the H in my parts manual for the RS6. it may be outdated.

[4everRS]

I didn't do the seals at the 75k service. They looked really good still. Yes new bolts are required for the crank pulley.
works with me


did anyone change their camshaft seals when doing the timing belt change?
or the crank seal?

i noticed that these were included in most of the aftermarket timing belt kits on the market.

also, any feedback on reusing the allen bolts for the crankshaft pulley? were they fine? recommend replacement when doing the timing belt change?

[Brazil]

i see another seal behind the camshaft seals. is that relaceable without having to remove the valve cover?

do you have a part number for the bolt? i think it's 078105229D, but not sure how many we need.

also, just to confirm, is N 10238802 the bolts for the crank pulley?

i found the H in my parts manual for the RS6. it may be outdated.

First, Christian, there's actually 9. lol

Terry, I don't know which seal you're talking about. There are locking caps to seal up the holes. Which part number is it on ETKA?

Yep, your part numbers are correct. 9 for the drive plate to crank, 1 large one for the crank sprocket.

The online ETKA shows H as well, but MaxRS6's receipt from the Audi dealer shows J as well as a few other people. J is probably the more recent one or a different brand. Continental is the brand you want for both the ribbed belt and the toothed belt.

[terrytcl]

First, Christian, there's actually 9. lol

Terry, I don't know which seal you're talking about. There are locking caps to seal up the holes. Which part number is it on ETKA?

Yep, your part numbers are correct. 9 for the drive plate to crank, 1 large one for the crank sprocket.

The online ETKA shows H as well, but MaxRS6's receipt from the Audi dealer shows J as well as a few other people. J is probably the more recent one or a different brand. Continental is the brand you want for both the ribbed belt and the toothed belt.

it comes up as
077103487B

i was trying to confirm on VAGCAT.com (they also have H listed for the timing belt)

i have a picture, but this file upload system won't take it

[Brazil]

Feel free to e-mail me the picture. I'll see if I can track it down.

jakef at noreduction dot com

[Brazil]

Crap, there's actually 8 bolts that hold the vibration dampener/crank pulley to the crank. The pictures I was looking at showed 9, but 8 are confirmed.

Oh well!

[V8weight]

Crap, there's actually 8 bolts that hold the vibration dampener/crank pulley to the crank. The pictures I was looking at showed 9, but 8 are confirmed.

Oh well!
I didn't have the heart to tell you there were 8, I figured you'd find out at some point. Did I see that you were trying to source the special vag timing tools? If you need to borrow mine let me know, I have the T40005 cam lock bar, the t40011 tensioner lock pin, the 3242 crank lock pin, and the t40009 concentric tensioner holding tool. I don't have the Audi T400001 cam gear puller, but I have a different version that works just fine.

[Brazil]

I didn't have the heart to tell you there were 8, I figured you'd find out at some point. Did I see that you were trying to source the special vag timing tools? If you need to borrow mine let me know, I have the T40005 cam lock bar, the t40011 tensioner lock pin, the 3242 crank lock pin, and the t40009 concentric tensioner holding tool. I don't have the Audi T400001 cam gear puller, but I have a different version that works just fine.

I can't keep all these damn cars straight. The Lotus engine rebuild was an exercise in patience, creative mechanistry, and sourcing parts from random weird sources... like the valve shims which need to be found with the perfect thickness to .001" and are only made for the Saab 99 and the Lotus Esprit. LOL. The Saab shop laughed when I went in there with a micrometer and weird printout of taped valve shim to root through their collection.

I would be in serious debt to you if I could borrow those. I do have a puller that will work for the cam gears... how did you hold them to take the bolt off without the 3036 holder?

I think you saw my e-mail address in Dave's reply... let's figure out details.

Thanks Pat!

[Christian-]

Sorry - I wasn't thinking crank pulley. I was thinking crank to flex plate. That's 10 bolts. :)

[BLITZEN]

Can an administrator or moderator please change the name of this thread? 'Cause it should be "How to do a $75K maintenance yourself" since only 2 or 3 posts went to answering the question I asked.

[JRS-RS6]

Can an administrator or moderator please change the name of this thread? 'Cause it should be "How to do a $75K maintenance yourself" since only 2 or 3 posts went to answering the question I asked.

It seems $75K for any maintenance would be an aweful lot.

Perhaps it should read "How to do a 75K Miles maintenance yourself" just a thought.

[DHall1]

Blitzen,

The group just goes with the flow and these things just take a life and head down the road. If there is something not answered in your specific needs please post up the needs. I thought we got your question answered.




Can an administrator or moderator please change the name of this thread? 'Cause it should be "How to do a $75K maintenance yourself" since only 2 or 3 posts went to answering the question I asked.

[Brazil]

Blitzen - Your question was answered. What is the problem? We all told you your quote was too high and ridiculous. If you don't care about the money, have them do it. If you care about the money, figure out a different shop that will do it for $3k like it should be.

By the way, as a discussion forum, things don't always stay "on topic". Part of a good discussion. Many other questions were answered here.

[Brazil]

On the topic of Wasserpumpe, I have a HEPU and GRAF pump, new in the boxes and was able to compare. They are essentially the same part. The housing is identical besides the HEPU stamped section. The GRAF pump has a blank in that area, but no stamped name.

The impeller wheels look the same, they are both metal and have the same clearance. Both bearings and seals feel the same.

GRAF is made in Spain, HEPU in Germany. I still believe that GRAF is the OEM, but I'll make sure. I don't need both pumps, so if someone wants to buy one of them, let me know. It will be cheaper than the online stores.

[vangelis]

Crap, there's actually 8 bolts that hold the vibration dampener/crank pulley to the crank. The pictures I was looking at showed 9, but 8 are confirmed.

Oh well!

Could you please point to where these bolts are located?? Don't point and say here ,, plz edit the photo and upload it again LOOL

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/RS6pics/Thermostatdiy.jpg

Thanks Dave for the photo :)

[DHall1]

Vangelis,

Sure, here ya go. Just remember the pulley is already removed in these pics.

Oh, and did you buy your waterpump yet? If not, we were using the "new" waterpump part number and you can still get the Audi reman for less than 200 bucks. LMK if you need that p/n.

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/RS6pics/timingbeltjobnotes.jpg?t=1268681532

[Brazil]

Oh, and did you buy your waterpump yet? If not, we were using the "new" waterpump part number and you can still get the Audi reman for less than 200 bucks. LMK if you need that p/n.

Like I said, I have a new waterpump, part number 077121004PX in the OEM brand of GRAF if anyone wants to buy it. It will be cheaper than "genuinevwaudiparts.com".

[terrytcl]

brazil,

with metal impeller?

[terrytcl]

if so, i'll take it PM me

[Brazil]

brazil,

with metal impeller?

Yep. I don't have PM, but feel free to e-mail me. - jakef at noreduction dot com

[vangelis]

Vangelis,

Sure, here ya go. Just remember the pulley is already removed in these pics.

Oh, and did you buy your waterpump yet? If not, we were using the "new" waterpump part number and you can still get the Audi reman for less than 200 bucks. LMK if you need that p/n.



Dealer told me it is an exchange part, to buy it the price is around $430 USD and if i returned the used one i will pay only $160 USD. So i exchange it, and I did the same for alternator, both front driveshafts axels.

[terrytcl]

i think since we have the water pump issue pretty much resolved -

i've been doing some research on the two roller bearings - 077109244C

apparently, there are a number of manufacturers for these too. i cannot seem to locate the exact manufacturer for the OEM part from Audi, but here are the manufacturers -

INA
Febi
Ruville

Seems like INA is made by a company Schaeffer. They seem to purchase a lot of stuff overseas (ASIA) for their bearings.
http://www.ina.com/

Febi is italian, and i think everyone has heard no so great things about them.

Ruville is german, but is tied with Schaeffer. SO! i think INA or Ruville is okay, but still with the question on who is the manufacturer for the OEM audi roller bearing.

needle bearings have been around for a very long time... the only real question is the quality of the seal of these bearings to keep moisture/debris out and grease inside the bearing.

still though, i'm seeing roughly $40-50 for INA and Febi with $65 for Ruville (fcp groton).... so... why is the OEM part from Audi $88 for one? twice the cost of an INA and +30% more than ruville?

any thoughts?

i think continental is pretty much the OEM supplier for belts for Audi. everyone seems to have continental, although did see acdelco...
for the tensioner, NTN seems to be manufacturer of choice. the only problem with this is that NTN outsources their pulleys and other processes to China.

for the belt roller (larger one), i see INA and Ruville for these.

for the pulley with lever (077109485E), i see Ruville and NTN.

Basically, most if not all of these parts (rollers, pulley, and tensioner) have some connection with China. Unless the OEM parts from Audi are not from these manufacturers, I can't be sure why there is a 150-200% markup on them.

thoughts?

[Brazil]

still though, i'm seeing roughly $40-50 for INA and Febi with $65 for Ruville (fcp groton).... so... why is the OEM part from Audi $88 for one? twice the cost of an INA and +30% more than ruville?

any thoughts?

I think you're about right... INA for the two rollers, NTN for the idlers and lever, Conti for the belts, Graf or Hepu for the pump. The reason Audi sells the INA rollers for $88 is because they can. People will buy "Genuine" parts packaged by Audi and pay a premium, even though they are the exact same part. It gives people who don't care much about money a piece of mind. Pretty much every OEM does this. They also have to buy the parts from INA, repackage them, keep them stocked, and source to dealerships. So, instead of buying the INA parts directly, you are paying for them to change hands an extra 2-3 times.

You'll be fine just buying the standard parts from ECS or wherever has them the cheapest... just stay away from Febi.

[DHall1]

Audi parts warranty on a 40,000 dollar engine. Priceless

To save 30 bucks a roller?

Just .02c


I think you're about right... INA for the two rollers, NTN for the idlers and lever, Conti for the belts, Graf or Hepu for the pump. The reason Audi sells the INA rollers for $88 is because they can. People will buy "Genuine" parts packaged by Audi and pay a premium, even though they are the exact same part. It gives people who don't care much about money a piece of mind. Pretty much every OEM does this. They also have to buy the parts from INA, repackage them, keep them stocked, and source to dealerships. So, instead of buying the INA parts directly, you are paying for them to change hands an extra 2-3 times.

You'll be fine just buying the standard parts from ECS or wherever has them the cheapest... just stay away from Febi.

[Brazil]

Audi parts warranty on a 40,000 dollar engine. Priceless

To save 30 bucks a roller?

Just .02c

LOL, if you think that Audi will warranty the engine because you use Audi rollers on a timing belt job you complete yourself, you're really crazy. Haha! Good luck tracing it back to that part and getting them to pay for anything. No way.

[terrytcl]

Audi parts warranty on a 40,000 dollar engine. Priceless

To save 30 bucks a roller?

Just .02c

part of what i'm doing is trying to find out who makes the OEM parts.
even if you use genuine branded oem parts and it fails, most auto manufacturers won't even pick up your call.

IMO, the most important parts behind the timing belt cover are -
timing belt
timing belt pulley with lever
hydraulic tensioner

the other items are pretty standard and if they fail, they should provide pretty good warning that the part is going. i doubt there would be catastrophic failure on a roller bearing (sealed bearing or needle bearing), where the part would eject from the vehicle. of course, if you installed it incorrectly, then all bets are off.
if the three items above have failure, then you may loose tension or loose your belt all together, which will cause piston to valve contact.

[DHall1]

Dont laugh. I hedge my exposure and you yours.

If I use genuine Audi parts and have some type of failure 3yrs down the road. No Fidelity admin is going to tell me I cut any corners.

I have 5 years of warranty left on this car and every intention of keeping the car till the wheels fall off.

Add the rollers to the list above. Terry, these are high wear items and if one starts to even wobble. Game over.


LOL, if you think that Audi will warranty the engine because you use Audi rollers on a timing belt job you complete yourself, you're really crazy. Haha! Good luck tracing it back to that part and getting them to pay for anything. No way.

[terrytcl]

dave, do you still have your old (original) rollers?

i am willing to take them apart and do a side by side internal comparison to an INA roller.

or if not dave, does anyone still have their OEM roller?

[DHall1]

Yep, I have mine. Pat may be closer with shipping from MN. Pat-did you save the old rollers?


dave, do you still have your old (original) rollers?

i am willing to take them apart and do a side by side internal comparison to an INA roller.

or if not dave, does anyone still have their OEM roller?

[Brazil]

Dont laugh. I hedge my exposure and you yours.

If I use genuine Audi parts and have some type of failure 3yrs down the road. No Fidelity admin is going to tell me I cut any corners.

I'm laughing mostly because I work in the auto industry and know exactly what the Auto manufacturer would say. I deal with it all the time. Now, you have an aftermarket warranty... how does Fidelity feel about you doing your own timing belt, even with "genuine" Audi-repackaged INA parts? Do they care that you aren't trained to do the job properly or have any certification? Do they care that you may screw up the tensioning process and destroy the engine? How can you prove that you used the genuine parts and don't just have reciepts from them? An INA roller is an INA roller, so you could buy the genuine part and the ECS part, and return the genuine part to keep the reciept. Now, that's dishonest, but it could be done.

I would think with a Fidelity warranty, when you do any required service to keep the car within their requirements, you NEED to have a dealership do it for it to be "valid". Isn't that the case? I can't imagine them warranting a car that you do all the work on yourself no matter how good you are at working with cars.

If you still have your rollers and tensioners, would you mind looking for markings on the parts to see the manufacturer for Terry and I? We're curious as to the OEM's. ECS says INA and NTN are the OEM bearing manufacturers, but that may be untrue.

Thanks!

[DHall1]

Simple really. I called them.

[Brazil]

Simple really. I called them.

I'm surprised they are ok with you doing your own work. How can they ensure you do the job correctly and they don't get screwed in the end?

[terrytcl]

i stole this pic off of ebay.

http://i.ebayimg.com/05/!BoK9qbQ!mk~$(KGrHqUOKiUEtmHv5NInBLm,4cKNww~~_12.J PG

you can see that the audi part number is stamped into the housing, but you can also see that the manufacturer is NTN.

JP - looks like it was manufactured in japan.

anyone have their damper handy? does it look the same?

[DHall1]

I am sure the person behind the counter has no idea how much "normal maintenance" is involved with a RS6. Also, if I were to screw something up it would explode the second upon startup. If a claim was generated....any tech or Fidelity inspector would spot the error a mile away.

I am fine with it. Pat also does his own maint with full logs and receipts. His warranty is good with it too.

Let me go look at the parts that came off the car. hang on

Ok,

The idler and lever bearings are INA
The rollers are also INA
Finally the damper is NTN




I'm surprised they are ok with you doing your own work. How can they ensure you do the job correctly and they don't get screwed in the end?

[terrytcl]

from my online research, NTN Japan only makes the hydraulic tensioners. there's some interesting reads from NTN regarding their hydraulic tensioner design.

[terrytcl]

Dave,

thanks for checking on the parts. did you see the manufacturer stamp on the part itself?

[DHall1]

You have the Audi stamping with part number and you also have the INA print on each side of the bearing actually in the seal end caps.


Dave,

thanks for checking on the parts. did you see the manufacturer stamp on the part itself?

[MaxRS6]

^^ Not worth nothing without pics as I've heard some state...LOL

[Brazil]

do you have a part number for the bolt? i think it's 078105229D, but not sure how many we need.

also, just to confirm, is N 10238802 the bolts for the crank pulley?

BTW, I just got some parts from the dealership and realized that VAGCAT is actually wrong on the bolts. The page that has these part numbers has #3 and #4 swapped. (you can tell by the M8 vs M18).

N 10238802 is the dampener bolts qty 8
078 105 229D is the crank sprocket bolt qty 1 (it's about $33 list, $18 at wholesale, LOL)

I'm not going to buy the dampener bolts from Audi since they are just a standard hex-head M8x24 bolt. I'm going to get some stainless grade 8 bolts from a local store. Audi has none in stock on the west coast. New Jersey has a few, but they are just standard bolts. You should by the single sprocket bolt from Audi as it's a massive bolt with specific threads and 12-point head... grade 9.8.

http://www.showyourmedia.com/files/1269548868.jpg

[MaxRS6]

AKA
http://www.showyourmedia.com/files/1269548868.jpg

[Brazil]

I was trying to link an image. Stupid vBulletin. KAWF is so much better it hurts my head. vBulletin is for people who don't know how to use the internet and old people.

[Christian-]

I was trying to link an image. Stupid vBulletin. KAWF is so much better it hurts my head. vBulletin is for people who don't know how to use the internet and old people.

Christian likes this.

[V8weight]

Shooo shooo, back to Quattroworld with you.

[Brazil]

If all you old people answered my questions on quattroworld, I would rather be there!

Haha, BTW, I got the tools today. Thank you so much. I'm still planning on doing the job Saturday, so I'll have them back to you pretty quick.

Quick question: I have pretty new oil in there and would rather not drain it. I know the leve should not be up to the front main seal, but is it up to the crank pin hole? (do I have to drain the oil first?)

[MaxRS6]

Brazil- To post a picture from a URL just do the following:

1) Click on the Insert Image Icon in the banner thread (the 3rd one from the right- run mouse over the icon and it says "Insert Image"
2) Click on the "From URL" tab on the screen that pops up from step 1
3) Paste or type the "URL" into the field
4) Done

Surely if us "old guys" can do it- surely you as the young whipper snapper tech savy with the snazzy Maxwell Smart phone can handle it...;0 After you get this down- maybe we can move you into the advanced post video class upon satisfactory completion of this lesson taught by my 14 year old daughter- Owooooo

[Brazil]

9592
Lame

KAWF forever

[MaxRS6]

^^- LOL- You a funny guy- I agree about some of the nuances (i.e. the freakin extra spaces, the HTML coding that doesn't exactly work at all times, etc..). I actually do quite a bit of VB programming and I don't understand why this site has some issues with some relatively simple items.

9593

[ben916]

^^- LOL- You a funny guy- I agree about some of the nuances (i.e. the freakin extra spaces, the HTML coding that doesn't exactly work at all times, etc..). I actually do quite a bit of VB programming and I don't understand why this site has some issues with some relatively simple items.

9593

VB programming?!?!? Holy Smoke! I have heard it all today.
um, using EXCEL to be the bean counter does NOT qualify as VB programming

< thinks he shoulda held back some...>

http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx318/ben916_rs6/RS6_fun/vb4dummies.jpg

[V8weight]

If all you old people answered my questions on quattroworld, I would rather be there!

Haha, BTW, I got the tools today. Thank you so much. I'm still planning on doing the job Saturday, so I'll have them back to you pretty quick.

Quick question: I have pretty new oil in there and would rather not drain it. I know the leve should not be up to the front main seal, but is it up to the crank pin hole? (do I have to drain the oil first?)
There's no need to drain the oil, the level is well below the crank stop hole. I was going to post a comment about knowing better than the oil level being above the crank counterweights, but I decided to try this tact thing.

[MaxRS6]

VB programming?!?!? Holy Smoke! I have heard it all today.
um, using EXCEL to be the bean counter does NOT qualify as VB programming

< thinks he shoulda held back some...>

http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx318/ben916_rs6/RS6_fun/vb4dummies.jpg

Uhhh- Didn't take long to let the quiver fly Ben...lol..
A little more than Excel twiddling as the below is a small snipet of recent coding (don't worry the passwords have been changed for the database)..Actually just a few hours short of a Computer Science major as it was an interest of mine while getting the accounting degree..I also do some work in C++ which I prefer- but VB does the trick and is easily transferrable to others;0

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz195/MaxRS6/VBSnippet.jpg?t=1269576967

[DHall1]

Mad Max strikes again. Super geek on staff

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/RS6pics/07_Mad_Max_Car_at_Silverton_Hotel_S.jpg?t=12695803 47

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/RS6pics/mad-max.jpg?t=1269580422

[Brazil]

There's no need to drain the oil, the level is well below the crank stop hole. I was going to post a comment about knowing better than the oil level being above the crank counterweights, but I decided to try this tact thing.

Thanks! Well, I actually haven't looked at the hole placement yet, it seems to be pretty low on the block, but you're right, it shouldn't be close to the oil level if it's screwing into the crank counter weights.

[V8weight]

Thanks! Well, I actually haven't looked at the hole placement yet, it seems to be pretty low on the block, but you're right, it shouldn't be close to the oil level if it's screwing into the crank counter weights.

It's kind of a pain to get to. It's on the rear drivers side of the block. You have to remove the bank 2 turbo tube to get access to it. It's amaout 18mm in diameter and is removed with an M8 allen.

[ben916]

Uhhh- Didn't take long to let the quiver fly Ben...lol..

OK OK MaxRS6, Props/respect given...
How ironic... I was considering going back and getting an accounting degree as I have the CS already... or maybe scrap all that and go back for a pharmaceutical degree (legalized drug dealer).

Oh and just for the record, I LOATH C++ (maybe because my first boss in the programming world set me up for failure to write an API using Visual C++ when we didn't have a license for it.). More stories but not in this thread...

O/T - assuming the car/engine are level, correct?

[MaxRS6]

.... After you get this down- maybe we can move you into the advanced post video class upon satisfactory completion of this lesson...

By the way- Jake obviously has more mechanical skills in his right pinky than I have on the car...:0 I am very envious of his (and others) to rip the car apart themselves and put it back together without it missing fifty bolts and clanking all the way to town...:bow: I was looking at my b*llsh*ting post and didn't want to leave the wrong impression of what I think of Mr. Jake!

[Brazil]

I did the service over the weekend and verified that the OEM water pump has the metal impeller and was identical to the HEPU model I installed over the weekend which was identical to the GRAF model I had as well and sold.

I verified that the roller bearings (INA) were the same as the OEM, markings identical minus the audi logo. Also the hydraulic tensioner was exactly the same markings as the new one minus the Audi logo.

[snoopra]

Quick question; Is it necessarily needed to pull the crank and cam sprockets for TB replacement?

[terrytcl]

only if you plan on replacing the seals (camshaft seal and crank "main" seal)

[V8weight]

The camshaft gears have to be pulled to properly set the valve timing. Not necessarily removed, but pulled out enough so that they rotate freely.

[snoopra]

Thanks Pat. What about the crank gear?

[V8weight]

Thanks Pat. What about the crank gear?
No need to remove the crank gear, only the harmonic dampener, which is held in with 8 M8 bolts, don't remove the center bolt.

[snoopra]

No need to remove the crank gear, only the harmonic dampener, which is held in with 8 M8 bolts, don't remove the center bolt.
Roger that, Pat.