Manual Conversion

[650RS]

Guys,

Ive owned my RS6 for quiet some time and after looking at alternative cars i've decided that I will keep the '6 and play with it a little.

My plan of attack is to gather the parts and take the car off the road late '10 or early '11, I am planning to do the following:

Manual Conversion
Engine and turbo upgrade
Intercooler Upgrade
Brake Upgrade

To make the manual conversion easier and negate the need of custom adapter etc I will rebuild the engine into a C5 S6 block with aftermarket forged pistons, conrods and also camshafts. The manual conversion will also feature a carbon fibre clutch to hold upto the torque.

The turbo upgrade will consist of a Garrett turbo upgrade with either GT28 or GT30 the exact trims will be decided to ensure the ability to make ~800bhp/1000m. The intercooler upgrade will be wagner side mounts or anything better available at the time.

The brake upgrade will consist of the C6 RS6 front brakes and using the standard front setup on the rear along the same lines as the UNIT 20 rear brake upgrade.

The coding to allow the manual conversion will not be an issue as my tuner has already been involved in three manual conversion for RS6's.

Keen for people's input and suggestions.

[TozoM8]

I would think the adapter plate is way easier/faster/cheaper way to do it. You need a 1/2" spacer for the tranny anyway, you could make it so it converts the bolt pattern too. You would need a custom flywheel too. The RS6 crank has a different bolt pattern crank than the S6/A8/S8.

[RS6-4dr911]

Without extensive knowledge myself, I would agree. The block is different for a reason, most likely a very good one. An adaptor plate should be a no-brainer for a decent machinst. I'd either use very high strength aluminum (I think 7075 has a pretty high yield strength, any aerospace engineers know better?) or carbon steel. You don't need that puppy working loose from deformation under all that torque. I'd maybe even be inclined to let an engineer (if you're not one) take a look at the design just to be sure. Doesn't require anything sophisticated, just someone that knows what to look for on a structural part.

[DHall1]

Cosworth build RS6 engines.

I dont know if it gets any better.

Gumpert use the same engine as well.

I dont know if it gets any better x 2.

[snoopra]

............................The coding to allow the manual conversion will not be an issue as my tuner has already been involved in three manual conversion for RS6's........
Where is your tuner located?

[uncfrk]

How much weight will the transmission conversion save?

[ttrs6]

:vhmmm::vhmmm:
Guys,

Ive owned my RS6 for quiet some time and after looking at alternative cars i've decided that I will keep the '6 and play with it a little.

My plan of attack is to gather the parts and take the car off the road late '10 or early '11, I am planning to do the following:

Manual Conversion
Engine and turbo upgrade
Intercooler Upgrade
Brake UpgradeTo make the manual conversion easier and negate the need of custom adapter etc I will rebuild the engine into a C5 S6 block with aftermarket forged pistons, conrods and also camshafts. The manual conversion will also feature a carbon fibre clutch to hold upto the torque.

The turbo upgrade will consist of a Garrett turbo upgrade with either GT28 or GT30 the exact trims will be decided to ensure the ability to make ~800bhp/1000m. The intercooler upgrade will be wagner side mounts or anything better available at the time.

The brake upgrade will consist of the C6 RS6 front brakes and using the standard front setup on the rear along the same lines as the UNIT 20 rear brake upgrade.

The coding to allow the manual conversion will not be an issue as my tuner has already been involved in three manual conversion for RS6's.

Keen for people's input and suggestions.

Thats funny because i already started that project i have a a6 block and a rebilt s4 trans will put piston,rods,cams and gt 30 maybe 35s but kept it shady until it was don sorry boys wanted to be the first.:jlol:

[650RS]

ttrs6 - im willing to share info if you are ;)

[TozoM8]

120-150 lbs.

[650RS]

Can someone please remind me if the RS6/A6/S6 block use sleeves are have the bore sprayed with a polymer?

[paulm846]

hi guys, having the manual conversion done on mine, will have it back in less than a week all being well. 2x gt30's, inconnel manifolds, lots of cooling, heads flowed / matched. should be big power,

[ttrs6]

ttrs6 - im willing to share info if you are ;)
If you ask me about e85 i say your better off with meth injection with pure meth my rs6 is in the shop getting snowperfomance stage 3 meth injection as we speak.Im putting a 2.5gallon tank to hold meth not washer fluid.Im doing downpipes,wastegates,fueling,tc,about 25psi of boost via greedy boost control maybe more also removeing evap system remachined cams custom tune with a lot of timeing for about 110 octan with meth.Tuner is saying im going to run about 700hp.Did i menchen 6spd next year because the tranny mite not like all that power thats why i put the greedy in.:mech:

[p3u]

Cosworth build RS6 engines.

I dont know if it gets any better.

Gumpert use the same engine as well.

I dont know if it gets any better x 2.

I agree, stock block is much better then the NA 4.2 its made for boost. However only the heads are built and engineered by Cosworth.

[650RS]

Only difference in the bottom end's is the lowe CR pistons used in the RS6 engine.

The heads are a different matter but you could replicate the heads using stndard A6/S6 items if needed.

[p3u]

Only difference in the bottom end's is the lowe CR pistons used in the RS6 engine.

The heads are a different matter but you could replicate the heads using stndard A6/S6 items if needed.

If that was the only difference then why are you switching blocks for the 6sp?:hahahehe:

[ttboost]

If that was the only difference then why are you switching blocks for the 6sp?:hahahehe:


Bolt pattern for bell housing different?

[p3u]

Bolt pattern for bell housing different?

Of course, my attempt at a joke.

[ttboost]

Of course, my attempt at a joke.


Sorry just tuned in...:hihi: Glad to see this thread.

[TozoM8]

I would not go through all that trouble by switching blocks just for the bell housing bolt pattern. It will need a 12mm spacer anyway so the conversion plate would solve two problems.

[650RS]

TozoM8 - Well if you developt the adapter plate I will buy one!

[ttrs6]

THE WAY I SEE IT IS THAT I HAVE TO BIULD MY ENGINE ANY WAY FOR THE POWER IM GOTNG TO MAKE WITH GT30S BUT IF SOMEONE CAN MAKE A PLATE I'LL BUY ONE TO.:eye:

[p3u]

I would not go through all that trouble by switching blocks just for the bell housing bolt pattern. It will need a 12mm spacer anyway so the conversion plate would solve two problems.

If you develop it let me know! Any trade in credit for my tranny towards it? :jlol:

[SteveKen]

I've mentioned this before but I have made much progress on doing the 01E conversion.

I've 3D laser scanned the RS6 engine and the 01E and have drawings prepared for an adapter plate that adds no length to the drivetrain.

The kit will consist of:

Adapter plate and hardware
Custom flywheel
Clutch
Custom starter with custom mounting adapter
maybe some wiring harnesses to do the 6 speed conversion?

If I only had more time and cash right now. I intended to do this conversion and put the RS6 motor into my S6 but decided to just put the 01E in to the S6 and sell it and then hunt for an RS6 with a bad transmission at the right price.

Folks have asked me for the drawings of the block and the transmission, etc, but honestly, I can't give them away. I've got nearly $5k invested in this, including every Audi starter ever built the went into an 01E.

[uncfrk]

I would not go through all that trouble by switching blocks just for the bell housing bolt pattern. It will need a 12mm spacer anyway so the conversion plate would solve two problems.

A 12mm spacer doesn't give a lot of room to do adapting. I've built many spacers and mid plates for race cars. However, it's been for lower race life forms. (Late Model Stock Cars). On American V8's, the bell housing can be built as an adapter giving more room to allow various bolt patterns for the Engine to transmission applications. (see attachment)

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/ProductSummary.aspx?free_text|2/8/2010%2011:04:20%20AM=bell+housing&deptId=0&first_answer=17

I want to Design and / or Build. I would want to do at least 6 units to spread out the expenses a little.

My goal is a little different. I want to shed some weight. These cars don't need to weigh over 4,000 lbs.

Frank

[SteveKen]

Also, It's basically an experiment to tear down an rebuild a 4.2 block let alone a 4.2 RS6 block.

The 4.2 is not part friendly with Audi, due to the siliconized process that avoids the need for cylinder liners. You can't easily bore the cylinders, etc.

Piston rings, I'm told, can be cross referenced to older 32V V8's but no one has personally confirmed this.

Swapping the S6 or A6 4.2 engine block just to have the correct bolt pattern and retain the non-RS6 crank could be done but is not worth it. The parts for re-ringing, new bearings and re-gasketing would be well into the $1k range.

Plus, the RS6 block's upper oil pan is larger to accommodate the return lines and whatever else is down there.

Just my $0.02.

[SteveKen]

A 12mm spacer doesn't give a lot of room to do adapting. I've built many spacers and mid plates for race cars. However, it's been for lower race life forms. (Late Model Stock Cars). On American V8's, the bell housing can be built as an adapter giving more room to allow various bolt patterns for the Engine to transmission applications. (see attachment)

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/ProductSummary.aspx?free_text|2/8/2010%2011:04:20%20AM=bell+housing&deptId=0&first_answer=17 (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/ProductSummary.aspx?free_text%7C2/8/2010%2011:04:20%20AM=bell+housing&deptId=0&first_answer=17)

I want to Design and / or Build. I would want to do at least 6 units to spread out the expenses a little.

My goal is a little different. I want to shed some weight. These cars don't need to weigh over 4,000 lbs.

Frank

My 2.7T to 01E spacer was measured at 11 mm. believe it or not, nearly all but 3 or 4 of the bolt holes on the RS6 block line up to the 01E. Therefore, this lessens my concerns with rotational torque issues, etc, with such a thin spacer.

I was thinking of doing a run of three pieces and still have yet to decide on the adapter plate material.

For what it's worth, the weight difference between the 01E and the tiptronic is at least 100 pounds.

Although, to me, weight savings on an Audi doesn't make sense to me unless you're racing it.

[ttboost]

My 2.7T to 01E spacer was measured at 11 mm. believe it or not, nearly all but 3 or 4 of the bolt holes on the RS6 block line up to the 01E. Therefore, this lessens my concerns with rotational torque issues, etc, with such a thin spacer.

I was thinking of doing a run of three pieces and still have yet to decide on the adapter plate material.

For what it's worth, the weight difference between the 01E and the tiptronic is at least 100 pounds.

Although, to me, weight savings on an Audi doesn't make sense to me unless you're racing it.


There is an economical value to weight savings, not just performance. Less weight cost less to move, fuel wise. Now I am not suggesting this is all with it, just pointing out the obvious...

[SteveKen]

I do agree with the piggish nature of basically all high output Audis.

I recall that the specs for my S6 show that it's only about 200 pounds heavier than a B6 S4.

One nice thing about the S6 and RS6 is the aluminum front and rear subframes. I'm certain that the A6 4.2 doesn't have these.

I've got a Smart car, so that's what I use to save gas in my 72 mile round trip commute to the office. It tips the scales at around 1600 pounds.

[uncfrk]

I'm pretty new to the RS6. But after sorting out the DRC and brakes, i did get to ride it through some twistys West of Boone North Carolina after Thanksgiving. It seemed very "PIG" like. Turning into the corners and the push through the center and out of the corner was not all that enjoyable. Also, the up shifts were disappointing. Since then, I've sent my TCU to Hoppen for the MTM mod and have purchased Hotchkis sway bars. I may put a little more camber in the front if it still doesn't turn in properly. I'm thinking, if I can save about 5% (200lbs), that's equal to 25 HP. Plus much easier to change direction with 3,800 lbs vs 4,000 lbs.

[DHall1]

Frank,

Those items you mentioned will help with the push but dont discount the most basic.

Alignment specs for front and rear toe. The factory spec gives a wide range but you want to be all the way on one side of the 0 spec. Let me go look it up....see below. Set your toe on the zero side of spec. Too much toe in and your pushing big time.

My car has the DRC, Hotchkis bars and there is no push in the corners.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4966&highlight=toe+alignment

[Brazil]

My car has the DRC, Hotchkis bars and there is no push in the corners.


I'll agree with this.... after only owning the car for a month+, I've noticed a dramatic difference with the H-sport bars. My car is pretty neutral in corners with occasional on-power slight oversteer. It's very well balanced with the correct setup and alignment specs.

[uncfrk]

Not to stray too far from the original theme here, I would be interested in building spacers. I figure that 6061-T6 aluminum would be sufficient. Our limited late model weighed about 2,300lbs with slightly over 400hp. and the Super late model guys were about the same weight with 650 /700 hp. All of the mid-plates were 1/2" 6061 aluminum. At least the ones that we built. (several hundred a year) with only failures when they were in sever crashes. (the mid plate was designed to give in major crashes to minimize component damage.)

[RS6-4dr911]

I may put a little more camber in the front if it still doesn't turn in properly.

No camber adjustment on these cars, cross-camber only. Take out at least half of the factory toe-in setting and see what that feels like. These things are setup to push on purpose to keep numb-nutz from putting them into the ditch, or a wall, etc.

[uncfrk]

MTM has some eccentric bushings available to get 2 deg. neg. camber. I would be interested to hear from someone that has used these on the street.

http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/RS6_C5.htm

[V8weight]

MTM has some eccentric bushings available to get 2 deg. neg. camber. I would be interested to hear from someone that has used these on the street.

http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/RS6_C5.htm
I run 2 degrees negative camber on my car due to being lowered with the Kw V3's. It's my daily driver and handles great, but not the ideal situation for the tires. I usually rotate at every oil change (5000 miles), but I didn't get a chance to do it before I drove back from Arizona. Here's 7500 miles of hard driving without a rotation.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/006-3.jpg

[TozoM8]

I've mentioned this before but I have made much progress on doing the 01E conversion.

I've 3D laser scanned the RS6 engine and the 01E and have drawings prepared for an adapter plate that adds no length to the drivetrain.

The kit will consist of:

Adapter plate and hardware
Custom flywheel
Clutch
Custom starter with custom mounting adapter
maybe some wiring harnesses to do the 6 speed conversion?

If I only had more time and cash right now. I intended to do this conversion and put the RS6 motor into my S6 but decided to just put the 01E in to the S6 and sell it and then hunt for an RS6 with a bad transmission at the right price.

Folks have asked me for the drawings of the block and the transmission, etc, but honestly, I can't give them away. I've got nearly $5k invested in this, including every Audi starter ever built the went into an 01E.
You can use your original starter. Just give your auto flex plate with the starter gear to whoever makes your flywheel and they will mount it on it. If you make the conversion spacer 19mm 3/4" it would fit the ring gear for the starter.

[650RS]

Guys,

I kindly request that all information be posted in the Official thread which I started as a member has offered his engineering abilites to knock up the adapter plates.

[ttrs6]

If i recall correct mtm made a adapter plate for the rs6 with s4 6spd convertion and gts.

[evil_s4]

Guys,

I kindly request that all information be posted in the Official thread which I started as a member has offered his engineering abilites to knock up the adapter plates.

if this happens let me know as i have an s4 sitting and im not sure what to do with it.....

[surferdude]

if this happens let me know as i have an s4 sitting and im not sure what to do with it.....

It's already happened...
PM SteveKen, I believe he has everything you would need.